Aye I believe that this is a PvP game and that Daoc gang flushed ES down the toilet. Sad really, and I'm not even a ES fan. Just cannot play PvP games due to vile community they tend to have. I can as well stop following ESO I think, just sad some Daoc devs were allowed to defile this IP.
Ok.. the first and important question is.. what do you want?
ESO will deliver you the pve single/group content/experience worth the length of any other single player Elder Scroll game. Skyrim content is also not much more than 150 hours.
On top of that you get those 24 player group adventure zone(similar end game raiding)?
And again.. what the hell do you want?
And on top of that we do have the RvR/AvA/PvP experience a lot of pvp player wait for.
And on top of that you can do all that shit for 3 different alliances, with i don't know how much classes and what not.
And again.. what do you want?
Ahh.. you just want to complain for the sake of it? Ok.. then go on complaining.
Typically gameplay to the end is a lot less than the hours of content. That content is often every little thing, including areas that are the same level that people wouldn't do both.
Back in vanilla WoW, I think people typically got to the end around 10-20 days played. That is 240-480 hours. I think I was at like 15 days played, 360 hours, and I probably did like 25% of the content.
For ESO, at 150ish, you can't exactly correlate the numbers, but often in most games they're close. People are probably going to be max level within 40 hours played, so within 2 days, especially the people that stay up and rotate. A casual person, probably doing only like 20 hours a week, will probably be max in 2 weeks. This sounds like a very short lived game.
True there is the pvp and other stuff afterwards, but if you have people that just log on for a few hours every night and are max in the first month, just way too fast.
I'm sure people will argue differently, kind of like they did with swtor, but then people were max super quick there and that had "more" content, lol.
Still going to play, just hope it will have a little more depth and gameplay than I expect.
About WoW. No it is not that much content to rush to lvl 60 in WoW Vanilla. Maybe 200 hours of content rushing to max level.. but not more. Of course you can waste time a long the way.. and you can waste time a long the way in ESO or any other game too.. and a lot of people will need more time than those 150 hours. But rushing through the content was not that fast.
And about older games. Like EQ1 or DAoC... yeah it took a lot more time, but not because of more content, but because you had to camp one spot for days or even weeks to progress to the next level. But the overall amount of content was not really more... the player were just forced to repeat the available content a lot more. That is a difference after all.
Edit: And by the way.. i personally don't like themepark pve anyway. Nor the nowaday used to progress through quests from quest hub to quest hub, or the older spawn camping from lvl zone to lvl zone. I am more a sandbox player and i do like some kind of pvp.. like the old DAoC RvR. But i can't stand all that complaining for nothing.
I hope they do PvP like DAOC; I remember once we attacked the keeps and captured a Relic, and then split into three groups, two as decoys, and one group with the actual Relic. I was in the group with the real Relic, and once we got it safely back in our lines, I felt a great sense of accomplishment, and everyone in our Realm got a +bonus.
edit: I spend a lot of time wandering around, harvesting stuff and crafting stuff. Also, just farming mobs and practicing my combat skills. Content is something I ration, and advance at my own pace.
I hope they do PvP like DAOC; I remember once we attacked the keeps and captured a Relic, and then split into three groups, two as decoys, and one group with the actual Relic. I was in the group with the real Relic, and once we got it safely back in our lines, I felt a great sense of accomplishment, and everyone in our Realm got a +bonus.
edit: I spend a lot of time wandering around, harvesting stuff and crafting stuff. Also, just farming mobs and practicing my combat skills. Content is something I ration, and advance at my own pace.
That's exactly how they're doing AvA. Instead of "relics" there will be "Elder Scrolls." You raid and capture them and then need to take them back to your home base and they will provide alliance-wide bonuses.
Those were always the most fun in DAoC. People that have nothing but short-term PVP as a frame of reference just have no clue how much fun a 3 hour-long strategic PVP raid with 100's participating can be.
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Originally posted by Stizzled 150 hours split between three factions, so 50 hours of story/random content for each faction. That doesn't sound like much to me. I imagine the leveling process will be rather fast, as they try to funnel everyone into the PvP zone as soon as possible.
You can PvP at level 10 so I dont think that is the case.
This is also an estimate that does not include crafting , exploring , dungeons and side quests. And the 50+ is harder and 50++ is even harder still. So it looks like there will be a good amount of content.
Originally posted by Keylogger_007 50h per faction is shitty, unless they plan on fleshing it out to 150h per even then it's pretty shabby. I put 600+ DAYS into EQ1, twice that into WOW, 300~ into Anachy Online, etc etc measuring MMO time in hours is a big no no no.
"150" per faction side is decent when you consider it's only part of the puzzle.
That is 450 hours, at launch not including pvp, crafting, etc.
I've put in 880 hours into skyrim since it's launched. Most of that on one character. if they update the game at a decent clip then 450 hours WITH the other stuff should suffice for a launch.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Gorwe So, is RvR an endgame thing or you can just jump into it in the early game(lvl 5-10)?
I am interested if they have learned anything from WAR...
You can jump in starting with lvl 10. But it is there endgame thing.. at least the pvp part of it.
Edit: Just to add. It is one huge zone and you will be leveled up stat wise.. so similar to GW2 in that regard.. hopefully it is larger, and more interesting in comparsion to GW2
This has me pretty concerned...I hope they aren't including listening to full dialogue in conversations in that time. Subtitle readers can easily divide that number in half then.
For any sort of longevity, launching with anything under 1000 hours of content is a bad idea unless you're planning a 6 month expansion release cycle.
150 is nowhere near enough for an MMO. The content locusts will devour that within a month and then we'll have another SWTOR. It doesn't end. Does any developer get it? The content needs to be at least 4 times as much, per character. If not, don't bother launching the game and save yourselves the embarrassment.
Originally posted by Destai 150 is nowhere near enough for an MMO. The content locusts will devour that within a month and then we'll have another SWTOR. It doesn't end. Does any developer get it? The content needs to be at least 4 times as much, per character. If not, don't bother launching the game and save yourselves the embarrassment.
First you need to be better informed. Its 120-150hrs for each faction which means 120-150 of story PVE X 3 not including all the other side things to do, crafting, PVP, etc. Second, they promised updates every 4-6 weeks and that their developers ARE ALREADY well on their way to working on the content for release post launch. That is where TOR failed big time (even though I still think they had a descent game). They didn't release content fast enough. I guess time will tell, but if a game releases content every 4-6 weeks and charges a sub to me that is more than reasonable, especially considering people pay $30-$60 for single player games that only have 10-40 hours of game play and are not on servers that need to be supported.
Originally posted by Bladestrom 150 hours is more like 2-3 months for you average player.
Of course those 150 hours of content is the high end of the spectrum, which entails doing just about everything possible.
So no, in real time it wouldn't be 2-3 months for an average player. The only way it would take someone UP TO 2-3 months is if they are extremely anal about accomplishing everything.
Originally posted by Tindale111 It came up on my facebook page today that ESO has over 150 hrs of content ,now if that was an rpg I would be dancing with joy ,but I remember being half way through wow and on typing /play my character had clocked up 13 days or 312 hrs .I realise gameplay is a bit different from content but 150 hrs didn't seem all that much to brag about even if you averaged just 10 hrs a week that's not going to hold you long
Ahh, another lost soul that never played Dark Age of Camelot. I do not blame you, Tindale111 for thinking this might be an issue. You see, in a realm vs realm vs realm mmorpg where RPG truly matters, the PvP as well starts to matter. You won't get this in the E-Sport flag captures of the past so many years, so I understand the confusion that led to this question.
You could literally spend the next (let's see how old Dark Age is...hmm, 2001 to 2013)...12 years just participating in the defense of your realm and or attacking enemy realms. Realm pride is akin to loving your football team above all others. Let me ask you, has football seemed lacking in end game content? I mean, it's the same game every time, right? /wink
I swear most of the community is innocently the equivalent of a 3rd world country that has only had a trickle of Western medicine. They beat their shields to their gods wondering why no one is cured, why so many die, and so forth, and now that Western medicine is arriving, they question the most basic facets of it.
This is a game that really needs to be made. Folks need to learn they can have far higher expectations of an industry - this truth alone must be a difficult pill to swallow for the Rift clones out there that just try to feed people sock soup when they could have steak.
Let's say you play balanced(a healthy mix of exploration, crafting, story and PvP) and that you're playing 3h/day. That 150h figure alone gives you 50 days of gameplay. We can safely bump that up to 100 because you're splitting your time between all those fun activities. Further, there are max lvl quests in the other alliance's zones. I think it's one quest line per Enemy alliance(say you are dominion-you get one in covenant and one in pact). That goes for all alliances so it's actually x3. Every Alliance also has two questlines so it's actually x6. Let's say that the endgame quests take 50h each to finish. That's another 300h right there! Translated into gaming days-it's another HUNDRED days! And that's not counting crafting/AvA at the endgame.
Two hundred days sounds lame to you lol? Maybe you need to discover the Magic of alts...
Well, I don't doubt for a second that locusts are going to eat straight through TESO. By playing gaming marathons(6h+) and focusing purely on the story instead of the balanced play. I predict that they'll be done with it within the first month. But who cares about them right? They made their own bed(s), so let them sleep in it! Those persons must be living in the living, selfmade hell lol.
Those are some fair numbers for you.
Take care!
i am hoping this is a reality. My wife and I have always taken much long to level, as we prefer the journey to the end game.... and we retentively complete every quest, click on every clickable, collect every collectable and search every nook and cranny. Pair that game play with limited amount of game time restricted to the kids nap time and bed time.... i believe we will be ok from out standpoint. Though i still think we will see some of the "ones who have no life" players who will be in ++ content with top of the line gear and whining about no content.
Originally posted by Bladestrom 150 hours is more like 2-3 months for you average player.
Of course those 150 hours of content is the high end of the spectrum, which entails doing just about everything possible.
So no, in real time it wouldn't be 2-3 months for an average player. The only way it would take someone UP TO 2-3 months is if they are extremely anal about accomplishing everything.
wrong. They have said that it is 120-150hrs per faction (so 120-150 for PVE story times 3) and that DOES NOT include all of the side things possible including PVP, crafting, etc so get your facts straight...and despite that..for people who have lives outside of gaming...it will take some time to get through all of that. In addition they are promising content updates every 4-6 weeks and are already working on that additional content with a separate set of Devs.
Another thing you are completely wrong with is what is appropriate for a single player game. Games like Portal 2 which did extremely well had less than 15 hours of play time people still bought it and that does not have content adds every 4-6 weeks or servers that needed to be maintained. There are tons of other single player games that did quite well with less than 20 hours, so stating that 150 hours for a single player game is some gold standard is just your standard, not the rest of the gaming world.
If history tells us anything it is that players go through content faster than developers estimate.
SWTOR: post launch the SWTOR team said that they were "surprised" at how quickly players went through the "200 hours"; they had future content drops mapped out and being worked on by unique teams as well. Sound familiar?
There are a host of other games were devs have expressed the same "surprise" but one worth was DAoC. Post-launch Mythic said they were surprised at how quickly the game saw its first level 50. And that was back in the age when computers were stone circles!
Blizzard have said how difficult it is to generate new content fast enough and that players are consuming content faster and faster. I don't expect Zenimax to be any different or ESO players to consume content any slower..
I wonder if that is 150hours each faction as they said you can switch to another faction to experience there story, that would not be bad 450hours of gameplay however I got a feeling its more like 50hours per faction adding to 150
Originally posted by Swids2010 I wonder if that is 150hours each faction as they said you can switch to another faction to experience there story, that would not be bad 450hours of gameplay however I got a feeling its more like 50hours per faction adding to 150
Where is that feeling coming from? It doesn't align with anything that has been released as far as what anyone has said including Zenimax.
If history tells us anything it is that players go through content faster than developers estimate.
SWTOR: post launch the SWTOR team said that they were "surprised" at how quickly players went through the "200 hours"; they had future content drops mapped out and being worked on by unique teams as well. Sound familiar?
There are a host of other games were devs have expressed the same "surprise" but one worth was DAoC. Post-launch Mythic said they were surprised at how quickly the game saw its first level 50. And that was back in the age when computers were stone circles!
Blizzard have said how difficult it is to generate new content fast enough and that players are consuming content faster and faster. I don't expect Zenimax to be any different or ESO players to consume content any slower..
That is true, history does show us that some do burn through things pretty fast, but for some reason I always take longer than whatever the average is because I don't race to end level (for me it really is about the journey) and always do a variety of in game things (crafting, some PVP, socializing with others, checking out inventory of vendors, fishing, exploring by just running around, , reading some of the books, whatever it may be, so for me I always skew the average the other way because I play these MMOs for the variety they offer.
Originally posted by Destai 150 is nowhere near enough for an MMO. The content locusts will devour that within a month and then we'll have another SWTOR. It doesn't end. Does any developer get it? The content needs to be at least 4 times as much, per character. If not, don't bother launching the game and save yourselves the embarrassment.
First you need to be better informed. Its 120-150hrs for each faction which means 120-150 of story PVE X 3 not including all the other side things to do, crafting, PVP, etc. Second, they promised updates every 4-6 weeks and that their developers ARE ALREADY well on their way to working on the content for release post launch. That is where TOR failed big time (even though I still think they had a descent game). They didn't release content fast enough. I guess time will tell, but if a game releases content every 4-6 weeks and charges a sub to me that is more than reasonable, especially considering people pay $30-$60 for single player games that only have 10-40 hours of game play and are not on servers that need to be supported.
Thanks for the clarification. Still, I'm skeptical about it. What incentives will players have to play through those? Will there be raids or content equivalent to it to keep people occupied? I've no reason to believe their promise of content delivery, but I suppose we'll see. If what you're saying is indeed true, I think it will be sufficient. If not, add this game to the pyre of free to play games.
Comments
Ok.. the first and important question is.. what do you want?
ESO will deliver you the pve single/group content/experience worth the length of any other single player Elder Scroll game. Skyrim content is also not much more than 150 hours.
On top of that you get those 24 player group adventure zone(similar end game raiding)?
And again.. what the hell do you want?
And on top of that we do have the RvR/AvA/PvP experience a lot of pvp player wait for.
And on top of that you can do all that shit for 3 different alliances, with i don't know how much classes and what not.
And again.. what do you want?
Ahh.. you just want to complain for the sake of it? Ok.. then go on complaining.
I really do hate whiners.
About WoW. No it is not that much content to rush to lvl 60 in WoW Vanilla. Maybe 200 hours of content rushing to max level.. but not more. Of course you can waste time a long the way.. and you can waste time a long the way in ESO or any other game too.. and a lot of people will need more time than those 150 hours. But rushing through the content was not that fast.
And about older games. Like EQ1 or DAoC... yeah it took a lot more time, but not because of more content, but because you had to camp one spot for days or even weeks to progress to the next level. But the overall amount of content was not really more... the player were just forced to repeat the available content a lot more. That is a difference after all.
Edit: And by the way.. i personally don't like themepark pve anyway. Nor the nowaday used to progress through quests from quest hub to quest hub, or the older spawn camping from lvl zone to lvl zone. I am more a sandbox player and i do like some kind of pvp.. like the old DAoC RvR. But i can't stand all that complaining for nothing.
I hope they do PvP like DAOC; I remember once we attacked the keeps and captured a Relic, and then split into three groups, two as decoys, and one group with the actual Relic. I was in the group with the real Relic, and once we got it safely back in our lines, I felt a great sense of accomplishment, and everyone in our Realm got a +bonus.
edit: I spend a lot of time wandering around, harvesting stuff and crafting stuff. Also, just farming mobs and practicing my combat skills. Content is something I ration, and advance at my own pace.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
That's exactly how they're doing AvA. Instead of "relics" there will be "Elder Scrolls." You raid and capture them and then need to take them back to your home base and they will provide alliance-wide bonuses.
Those were always the most fun in DAoC. People that have nothing but short-term PVP as a frame of reference just have no clue how much fun a 3 hour-long strategic PVP raid with 100's participating can be.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I put 600+ DAYS into EQ1, twice that into WOW, 300~ into Anachy Online, etc etc measuring MMO time in hours is a big no no no.
You can PvP at level 10 so I dont think that is the case.
This is also an estimate that does not include crafting , exploring , dungeons and side quests. And the 50+ is harder and 50++ is even harder still. So it looks like there will be a good amount of content.
"150" per faction side is decent when you consider it's only part of the puzzle.
That is 450 hours, at launch not including pvp, crafting, etc.
I've put in 880 hours into skyrim since it's launched. Most of that on one character. if they update the game at a decent clip then 450 hours WITH the other stuff should suffice for a launch.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You can jump in starting with lvl 10. But it is there endgame thing.. at least the pvp part of it.
Edit: Just to add. It is one huge zone and you will be leveled up stat wise.. so similar to GW2 in that regard.. hopefully it is larger, and more interesting in comparsion to GW2
This has me pretty concerned...I hope they aren't including listening to full dialogue in conversations in that time. Subtitle readers can easily divide that number in half then.
For any sort of longevity, launching with anything under 1000 hours of content is a bad idea unless you're planning a 6 month expansion release cycle.
First you need to be better informed. Its 120-150hrs for each faction which means 120-150 of story PVE X 3 not including all the other side things to do, crafting, PVP, etc. Second, they promised updates every 4-6 weeks and that their developers ARE ALREADY well on their way to working on the content for release post launch. That is where TOR failed big time (even though I still think they had a descent game). They didn't release content fast enough. I guess time will tell, but if a game releases content every 4-6 weeks and charges a sub to me that is more than reasonable, especially considering people pay $30-$60 for single player games that only have 10-40 hours of game play and are not on servers that need to be supported.
There Is Always Hope!
For a single player game 150 hours is good.
For a game you have to pay a monthly fee for, not so much.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Of course those 150 hours of content is the high end of the spectrum, which entails doing just about everything possible.
So no, in real time it wouldn't be 2-3 months for an average player. The only way it would take someone UP TO 2-3 months is if they are extremely anal about accomplishing everything.
That is also what Bioware expected. The reality was different.
Wow, what a bunch of liars.
Just like all other game devs!
I have come to the conclusion that you shouldn't believe anything they say anymore.
It is all PR!
i am hoping this is a reality. My wife and I have always taken much long to level, as we prefer the journey to the end game.... and we retentively complete every quest, click on every clickable, collect every collectable and search every nook and cranny. Pair that game play with limited amount of game time restricted to the kids nap time and bed time.... i believe we will be ok from out standpoint. Though i still think we will see some of the "ones who have no life" players who will be in ++ content with top of the line gear and whining about no content.
Ok, allow me to sort this out:
150 hrs is the amount of time the dev's themselves have taken to get 1 to 50 with just quest and killing as fast as possible. http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth.com/2013/09/05/episode-81-the-paul-sage/.
as for doing all content they were clocking 200 + hours, according to the above pod-cast.
wrong. They have said that it is 120-150hrs per faction (so 120-150 for PVE story times 3) and that DOES NOT include all of the side things possible including PVP, crafting, etc so get your facts straight...and despite that..for people who have lives outside of gaming...it will take some time to get through all of that. In addition they are promising content updates every 4-6 weeks and are already working on that additional content with a separate set of Devs.
Another thing you are completely wrong with is what is appropriate for a single player game. Games like Portal 2 which did extremely well had less than 15 hours of play time people still bought it and that does not have content adds every 4-6 weeks or servers that needed to be maintained. There are tons of other single player games that did quite well with less than 20 hours, so stating that 150 hours for a single player game is some gold standard is just your standard, not the rest of the gaming world.
There Is Always Hope!
If history tells us anything it is that players go through content faster than developers estimate.
SWTOR: post launch the SWTOR team said that they were "surprised" at how quickly players went through the "200 hours"; they had future content drops mapped out and being worked on by unique teams as well. Sound familiar?
There are a host of other games were devs have expressed the same "surprise" but one worth was DAoC. Post-launch Mythic said they were surprised at how quickly the game saw its first level 50. And that was back in the age when computers were stone circles!
Blizzard have said how difficult it is to generate new content fast enough and that players are consuming content faster and faster. I don't expect Zenimax to be any different or ESO players to consume content any slower..
Where is that feeling coming from? It doesn't align with anything that has been released as far as what anyone has said including Zenimax.
There Is Always Hope!
That is true, history does show us that some do burn through things pretty fast, but for some reason I always take longer than whatever the average is because I don't race to end level (for me it really is about the journey) and always do a variety of in game things (crafting, some PVP, socializing with others, checking out inventory of vendors, fishing, exploring by just running around, , reading some of the books, whatever it may be, so for me I always skew the average the other way because I play these MMOs for the variety they offer.
There Is Always Hope!
Thanks for the clarification. Still, I'm skeptical about it. What incentives will players have to play through those? Will there be raids or content equivalent to it to keep people occupied? I've no reason to believe their promise of content delivery, but I suppose we'll see. If what you're saying is indeed true, I think it will be sufficient. If not, add this game to the pyre of free to play games.