Why not just not do them? Because you don't like it, nobody should? Am I understanding you correctly?
Wow an honest to goodness simple solution to the problem, yet we continue to vent. Simple answer to the OP's issue.
It is not a simple answer.
A majority of players who buy an MMO play to LEVEL their character (until endgame). It is the prima facie carrot stick. Whether you are gaining skills, attributes, unlocking content, or whatever combination thereof, most MMOs celebrate level acquisition.
FFXIV does not deviate from this model.
THEREFORE, when you include a mechanism which, quite literally, exponentially expedites the process and by VIRTUE OF THIS passively discourage the rest of the game, you have a major problem.
It is not a "minor" problem. And there is no easy solution.
just make FATES harder or more time consuming. that way people will choose to either not do them or actually have more fun while doing them. Theres a FATE out there with a cyclops boss that will one hit kill tanks if they dont step out of the aoe in time, which is actually pretty fun. it has a longer duration (30 instead of 15 min) because its harder and it does no pop as often- so when it does i get really excited lol.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Restrict players to how many fates they can complete in a day. I think leveling just on fates is a cheap way to level. But people love to take the easy route. Nonetheless this is a huge design flaw and hope either the exp gets nerfed real soon or people are limited to maybe 6 a day.
They do need to lower it some. The frequency that they pop plus the amount of exp you can get per hour just makes it way too fast to level. That and the amount of people doing it just makes it unbelievably easy. Its practially the same as just riding around the map turning in quests at randomly spawning areas.
I think getting rid of Fates is a bad idea. When leveling other classes and jobs you need a way to get XP. There's a limit to the number of leves you can do and quests aren't repeatable. Getting rid of Fates would cause a lot of problems unless they changed other aspects of the game.
I have a guy in my free company that did 1-50 in 3 days with nothing but Fates. I want to like this game, I have been rooting for it since 1.0 went down. Come release day there is already bots killing everything in sight in noob zones, gil spam makes general chat unusable, every time I get on airship to go somewhere I have to black list 5 people. The auction house is a mess, under cut after under cut probably by farmers, because who the hell else would sell something for half the price of what its going for. This fate thing is really just the icing on the shit cake for me. I haven't turned the game on today, and not sure if I will tomorrow.
The idea of fates isn't a bad one, it's just horrifically implemented.
It is tons of reward for absolutely zero effort.
If they scaled to match the players involved that'd be one thing (mods beefier in health and damage output for ex), if ANY but the rare boss mob in a fate hit for noticeable damage - ever, if they didn't spawn non stop and were more of an event and less of a routine, and so on, they could be better.
Right now it's just a mindless zerg of speed leveling that blows away all other forms of solo idiot mode for the "idiot" component.
Reward should match challenge. For fates right now, that should mean you get less xp for a fate than for killing a single mob one on one since fates are even less challenging.
It's poor balance and it's terrible for the game because fate grinders can max their characters very fast. No game can last when people cap out in days and are pounding endgame mercilessly almost immediately. There will never be enough content. Fates are just horribly designed.
It's hard to just NOT do fates. You need seals to unlock at least one dungeon, fill some gear slots, and who knows what else and doing levels is nearly as lame as doing fates. Again, fates give you tons of seals for doing absolutely nothing. Gathering, crafting, and especially dungeons are way more demanding and yield zero seals.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
They wont do away with fates, because thats their "live event" system. Thats the reason why they've put it in game, to add a bit of life and perspective to the world. Im sure they did not intend to add it to be the easiest way to level, except maybe for additional classes.
Its all about playing the game the way the developers intended for me. Thats the way I enjoy the game. If I play by my own "rules" then every game does indeed become the same, and you'll miss a lot of the subtle nuances that may make each game its own.
Power gamers who want to abuse this available system and rush to top level, fine with me. They wont last obviously, and by buying the box and sucking up everything they can in 30 days they are making a financial contribution to content I will be playing in the future. These types are going to burn out fast regardless, why remove something that works fine?
Totally agree OP. The games central design mechanics for progression is based around grouping for content like dungeons, guildhests, etc. FATES are essentially ruining the core of the game.
I don't think they need to go away, but they need a SERIOUS xp and gil nerf. Leave the rest of the GC rewards as they are, those are fine....but yeah, FATES are the bane of this game's existence atm.
Honestly, its such an obvious and easy fix....I can see this being patched in the near future now that they have a lot of the server issues under control.
I think it's more of a question of "when?" instead of "Will they?"
What they've essentially done is say "Here, enjoy this game based heavily around all these awesome dungeons which require a group. Oh....but here's this much more efficient method to level up that doesn't require hardly anything and gets you what you want faster"
Originally posted by Senerius if you don't like them don't do them and just shut up
Bad design idea is bad. Doesn't matter if I do them or not, doesn't make it any better.
With that said: We've all seen things similar to this in other games. They are usually patched further down the line, so it's not going to keep me from playing...and I don't do FATEs unless they're right on top of me, like the OP....but again that doesn't change anything. Bad is bad is bad. FATEs are a wonderful idea executed poorly and easily fixed, there's really no argument against that basic fact.
Combat, crafting, those things are more subjective.
When you essentially provide a way to circumvent your own design though...just no.
The Fates, atleast in their current form, make leveling too easy. Too much content can be skipped because of it.
It just seems cheap, and doesn't seem to fit the game in general. It's almost like an after thought.
I understand that from your third class on there are really no quests, but the present state of Fates is NOT a good solution.
Maybe they need to up the exp from Leves?
Who's got some good ideas?
And how the hell people are supposed to level alt classes then? dungeon xp is utterly bad, guildhest xp dimnishes and is only good for one time, no main scenario, no sidequests, leves again shared on character so you need those for your other jobs too.
So all you got is hunting logs and fates. Nerf fates and see players quitting in masses.
The Fates, atleast in their current form, make leveling too easy. Too much content can be skipped because of it.
It just seems cheap, and doesn't seem to fit the game in general. It's almost like an after thought.
I understand that from your third class on there are really no quests, but the present state of Fates is NOT a good solution.
Maybe they need to up the exp from Leves?
Who's got some good ideas?
And how the hell people are supposed to level alt classes then? dungeon xp is utterly bad, guildhest xp dimnishes and is only good for one time, no main scenario, no sidequests, leves again shared on character so you need those for your other jobs too.
So all you got is hunting logs and fates. Nerf fates and see players quitting in masses.
This seems like an extremely 1 dimensional response.
You're saying that the only thing that would happen in such a patch is nefed FATE xp? Are you saying that such a patch would be completely incapable of increasing dungeon/hest/etc xp at the same time? Try to see further than right in front of your face....there's a lot more to it, a lot more possibilities.
The Fates, atleast in their current form, make leveling too easy. Too much content can be skipped because of it.
It just seems cheap, and doesn't seem to fit the game in general. It's almost like an after thought.
I understand that from your third class on there are really no quests, but the present state of Fates is NOT a good solution.
Maybe they need to up the exp from Leves?
Who's got some good ideas?
And how the hell people are supposed to level alt classes then? dungeon xp is utterly bad, guildhest xp dimnishes and is only good for one time, no main scenario, no sidequests, leves again shared on character so you need those for your other jobs too.
So all you got is hunting logs and fates. Nerf fates and see players quitting in masses.
This seems like an extremely 1 dimensional response.
You're saying that the only thing that would happen in such a patch is nefed FATE xp? Are you saying that such a patch would be completely incapable of increasing dungeon/hest/etc xp at the same time? Try to see further than right in front of your face....there's a lot more to it, a lot more possibilities.
My one dimensional response is an answer to one dimensional post by OP. NERF FATE...all right..what is the solution?....up the xp from leves...is that it?
Why do you think people prefer FATE? because it has no down time and are actually fun. People value their time and FATE given them an oppertunity to log in play and then log off without worrying about gathering up groups or going through masses of trash to get paltry xp in dungeons.
Why nerf FTAES? why not bring XP for other things on par with FATES and let players choose? but no we must nerf anything that we personally dislike and make others suffer.
The Fates, atleast in their current form, make leveling too easy. Too much content can be skipped because of it.
It just seems cheap, and doesn't seem to fit the game in general. It's almost like an after thought.
I understand that from your third class on there are really no quests, but the present state of Fates is NOT a good solution.
Maybe they need to up the exp from Leves?
Who's got some good ideas?
And how the hell people are supposed to level alt classes then? dungeon xp is utterly bad, guildhest xp dimnishes and is only good for one time, no main scenario, no sidequests, leves again shared on character so you need those for your other jobs too.
So all you got is hunting logs and fates. Nerf fates and see players quitting in masses.
Which are those "other jobs" you speak of?
Crafting has a reasonable leveling speed without using any levequest at all. So that leaves you with gathering classes. So yeah, you may perhaps need to choose between boosting your gathering class or your war/magic class; it is not a horrible choice.
The Fates, atleast in their current form, make leveling too easy. Too much content can be skipped because of it.
It just seems cheap, and doesn't seem to fit the game in general. It's almost like an after thought.
I understand that from your third class on there are really no quests, but the present state of Fates is NOT a good solution.
Maybe they need to up the exp from Leves?
Who's got some good ideas?
And how the hell people are supposed to level alt classes then? dungeon xp is utterly bad, guildhest xp dimnishes and is only good for one time, no main scenario, no sidequests, leves again shared on character so you need those for your other jobs too.
So all you got is hunting logs and fates. Nerf fates and see players quitting in masses.
This seems like an extremely 1 dimensional response.
You're saying that the only thing that would happen in such a patch is nefed FATE xp? Are you saying that such a patch would be completely incapable of increasing dungeon/hest/etc xp at the same time? Try to see further than right in front of your face....there's a lot more to it, a lot more possibilities.
My one dimensional response is an answer to one dimensional post by OP. NERF FATE...all right..what is the solution?....up the xp from leves...is that it?
Why do you think people prefer FATE? because it has no down time and are actually fun. People value their time and FATE given them an oppertunity to log in play and then log off without worrying about gathering up groups or going through masses of trash to get paltry xp in dungeons.
Why nerf FTAES? why not bring XP for other things on par with FATES and let players choose? but no we must nerf anything that we personally dislike and make others suffer.
Why the hell would you want to leave FATE xp as it is and then INCREASE the other activities? It isn't fast enough already to level up for you? Do you just want to log on and be level 50?
You have second class XP, you have rested XP, you have XP bonuses from food. Come the hell on....MOAR xp? Seriously? That's your solution?
The Fates, atleast in their current form, make leveling too easy. Too much content can be skipped because of it.
It just seems cheap, and doesn't seem to fit the game in general. It's almost like an after thought.
I understand that from your third class on there are really no quests, but the present state of Fates is NOT a good solution.
Maybe they need to up the exp from Leves?
Who's got some good ideas?
And how the hell people are supposed to level alt classes then? dungeon xp is utterly bad, guildhest xp dimnishes and is only good for one time, no main scenario, no sidequests, leves again shared on character so you need those for your other jobs too.
So all you got is hunting logs and fates. Nerf fates and see players quitting in masses.
This seems like an extremely 1 dimensional response.
You're saying that the only thing that would happen in such a patch is nefed FATE xp? Are you saying that such a patch would be completely incapable of increasing dungeon/hest/etc xp at the same time? Try to see further than right in front of your face....there's a lot more to it, a lot more possibilities.
My one dimensional response is an answer to one dimensional post by OP. NERF FATE...all right..what is the solution?....up the xp from leves...is that it?
Why do you think people prefer FATE? because it has no down time and are actually fun. People value their time and FATE given them an oppertunity to log in play and then log off without worrying about gathering up groups or going through masses of trash to get paltry xp in dungeons.
Why nerf FTAES? why not bring XP for other things on par with FATES and let players choose? but no we must nerf anything that we personally dislike and make others suffer.
Why the hell would you want to leave FATE xp as it is and then INCREASE the other activities? It isn't fast enough already to level up for you? Do you just want to log on and be level 50?
You have second class XP, you have rested XP, you have XP bonuses from food. Come the hell on....MOAR xp? Seriously? That's your solution?
3% xp boost from food? second class xp and rested xp might seem a lot at low levels but not so much past 40. First class is fast but second not so much. I wonder how many of you have even leveled more than one class who are suggesting that FATES should be nerfed.
Comments
Great reply! +1
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Ethion
Wow an honest to goodness simple solution to the problem, yet we continue to vent. Simple answer to the OP's issue.
It is not a simple answer.
A majority of players who buy an MMO play to LEVEL their character (until endgame). It is the prima facie carrot stick. Whether you are gaining skills, attributes, unlocking content, or whatever combination thereof, most MMOs celebrate level acquisition.
FFXIV does not deviate from this model.
THEREFORE, when you include a mechanism which, quite literally, exponentially expedites the process and by VIRTUE OF THIS passively discourage the rest of the game, you have a major problem.
It is not a "minor" problem. And there is no easy solution.
There is a simple solution.
Tone down exp from Fates, or get rid of them, and/or bump up exp in DUNGEONS, or bump up exp from leves...
Get rid of fates?
You consider that a "simple" solution? Or just a simple way to alienate almost every player?
I have a feeling they are going to nerf it. With the other changes they very well may extend the length of time from 1 to darklight by tenfold.
I'm sure no one will be mad about that...
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
The idea of fates isn't a bad one, it's just horrifically implemented.
It is tons of reward for absolutely zero effort.
If they scaled to match the players involved that'd be one thing (mods beefier in health and damage output for ex), if ANY but the rare boss mob in a fate hit for noticeable damage - ever, if they didn't spawn non stop and were more of an event and less of a routine, and so on, they could be better.
Right now it's just a mindless zerg of speed leveling that blows away all other forms of solo idiot mode for the "idiot" component.
Reward should match challenge. For fates right now, that should mean you get less xp for a fate than for killing a single mob one on one since fates are even less challenging.
It's poor balance and it's terrible for the game because fate grinders can max their characters very fast. No game can last when people cap out in days and are pounding endgame mercilessly almost immediately. There will never be enough content. Fates are just horribly designed.
It's hard to just NOT do fates. You need seals to unlock at least one dungeon, fill some gear slots, and who knows what else and doing levels is nearly as lame as doing fates. Again, fates give you tons of seals for doing absolutely nothing. Gathering, crafting, and especially dungeons are way more demanding and yield zero seals.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
Is the idea here that without fates or with less xp gains from them the people playing them would stay subbed longer? I doubt it.
If the game can't hold onto subs, it won't be because of fates, but because its the nature of the causal player in an oversaturated market.
They wont do away with fates, because thats their "live event" system. Thats the reason why they've put it in game, to add a bit of life and perspective to the world. Im sure they did not intend to add it to be the easiest way to level, except maybe for additional classes.
Its all about playing the game the way the developers intended for me. Thats the way I enjoy the game. If I play by my own "rules" then every game does indeed become the same, and you'll miss a lot of the subtle nuances that may make each game its own.
Power gamers who want to abuse this available system and rush to top level, fine with me. They wont last obviously, and by buying the box and sucking up everything they can in 30 days they are making a financial contribution to content I will be playing in the future. These types are going to burn out fast regardless, why remove something that works fine?
Totally agree OP. The games central design mechanics for progression is based around grouping for content like dungeons, guildhests, etc. FATES are essentially ruining the core of the game.
I don't think they need to go away, but they need a SERIOUS xp and gil nerf. Leave the rest of the GC rewards as they are, those are fine....but yeah, FATES are the bane of this game's existence atm.
Honestly, its such an obvious and easy fix....I can see this being patched in the near future now that they have a lot of the server issues under control.
I think it's more of a question of "when?" instead of "Will they?"
Could be wrong....but I hope not.
What they've essentially done is say "Here, enjoy this game based heavily around all these awesome dungeons which require a group. Oh....but here's this much more efficient method to level up that doesn't require hardly anything and gets you what you want faster"
In one word: fail
We all can only be who we are Nothing more nothing less.
Bad design idea is bad. Doesn't matter if I do them or not, doesn't make it any better.
With that said: We've all seen things similar to this in other games. They are usually patched further down the line, so it's not going to keep me from playing...and I don't do FATEs unless they're right on top of me, like the OP....but again that doesn't change anything. Bad is bad is bad. FATEs are a wonderful idea executed poorly and easily fixed, there's really no argument against that basic fact.
Combat, crafting, those things are more subjective.
When you essentially provide a way to circumvent your own design though...just no.
And how the hell people are supposed to level alt classes then? dungeon xp is utterly bad, guildhest xp dimnishes and is only good for one time, no main scenario, no sidequests, leves again shared on character so you need those for your other jobs too.
So all you got is hunting logs and fates. Nerf fates and see players quitting in masses.
This seems like an extremely 1 dimensional response.
You're saying that the only thing that would happen in such a patch is nefed FATE xp? Are you saying that such a patch would be completely incapable of increasing dungeon/hest/etc xp at the same time? Try to see further than right in front of your face....there's a lot more to it, a lot more possibilities.
My one dimensional response is an answer to one dimensional post by OP. NERF FATE...all right..what is the solution?....up the xp from leves...is that it?
Why do you think people prefer FATE? because it has no down time and are actually fun. People value their time and FATE given them an oppertunity to log in play and then log off without worrying about gathering up groups or going through masses of trash to get paltry xp in dungeons.
Why nerf FTAES? why not bring XP for other things on par with FATES and let players choose? but no we must nerf anything that we personally dislike and make others suffer.
Which are those "other jobs" you speak of?
Crafting has a reasonable leveling speed without using any levequest at all. So that leaves you with gathering classes. So yeah, you may perhaps need to choose between boosting your gathering class or your war/magic class; it is not a horrible choice.
Why the hell would you want to leave FATE xp as it is and then INCREASE the other activities? It isn't fast enough already to level up for you? Do you just want to log on and be level 50?
You have second class XP, you have rested XP, you have XP bonuses from food. Come the hell on....MOAR xp? Seriously? That's your solution?
3% xp boost from food? second class xp and rested xp might seem a lot at low levels but not so much past 40. First class is fast but second not so much. I wonder how many of you have even leveled more than one class who are suggesting that FATES should be nerfed.