Anybody else notice the ridiculous amount of delivery quest the first 20 levels?

TheHavok · September 2013

Because I sure do. And I really wish these guys had phones.

TwoThreeFour · September 2013

Yeah, cellphones would have really been handy XD.

Reizla · September 2013

Originally posted by TheHavok
Because I sure do. And I really wish these guys had phones.

Nope, I didn't notice. Then again, I did make a hobbit in The Lord of the Rings online, and had to run through The Shire over a dozen times running errands for those lazy hobbitses that live there...

Electro057 · September 2013

They...they do have phones. Linkshells are actually an in-game things, it's a magical shell that lets a group of people talk to one another. That's how Mflina talks to you, she's not telepathic...She's calling you on your link shell. Hence why you raise your hand to your ear, it works like a CIA/FBI wire. That's also why that one guy was yelling out code names in the battle cutscene, all lame like...SNAKKKKEE! RAGING BULLLL!!! ARRRGGHHH! NOOO! They were using it like the codec in Metal Gear Solid.

TheHavok · September 2013

Originally posted by Electro057
They...they do have phones. Linkshells are actually an in-game things, it's a magical shell that lets a group of people talk to one another. That's how Mflina talks to you, she's not telepathic...She's calling you on your link shell. Hence why you raise your hand to your ear, it works like a CIA/FBI wire. That's also why that one guy was yelling out code names in the battle cutscene, all lame like...SNAKKKKEE! RAGING BULLLL!!! ARRRGGHHH! NOOO! They were using it like the codec in Metal Gear Solid.

Lol yes, true.

I'm just a little fed up doing all these errand boy quest. It seems like there are a lot more delivery quest then fighting quest so far.

Bigdaddyx · September 2013

Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by TheHavok
Because I sure do. And I really wish these guys had phones.

The amount of pointless running is pretty astounding for some quests.

I think I was leveling my Conjurer and its like go 2 zones away, talk to some chick, kill one thing.... run back to guild master, so she can tell me to RUN BACK to the same zone, talk to another chick, kill another thing.

At the end the guildmaster appears in the zone, and I am like great, at least she is here give me my new stick, as I completed the quest, but NO. She just walks away.

So I have to run back to the city again, just to talk to her (we just talked in the forest a minute ago....)

Seriously, wtf?

And yeah linkshells would have saved me so much pointless running back and forth.

And people wonder why masses zerg FATEs, in the time I did above I could have gained 2 levels.

Even the main scenario quests are exactly like these. Pointless running all the way to other end of the world just for couple of dialouges and then back.

zevni78 · September 2013

You don't have to do any sidequests with your first class really, if your following the main story quest and doing fates they are not needed till your 2nd combat class, and then to compliment leves. Your thinking too much like WoW where your one class has to lvl on all the quests per hub, just save them up, you'll be glad to have them to break up leves. Each zone is meant to be tackled by the 3 (or 2 in LL) combat classes of the central town. They aren't great quests, but all quests are is a way of breaking up the grind anyway, you have choices in how to tackle the content.

Ayulin · September 2013

Originally posted by zevni78
You don't have to do any sidequests with your first class really, if your following the main story quest and doing fates they are not needed till your 2nd combat class, and then to compliment leves. Your thinking too much like WoW where your one class has to lvl on all the quests per hub, just save them up, you'll be glad to have them to break up leves. Each zone is meant to be tackled by the 3 (or 2 in LL) combat classes of the central town. They aren't great quests, but all quests are is a way of breaking up the grind anyway, you have choices in how to tackle the content.

That still leaves you with the same problem the OP and others have pointed out...

A huge amount of uninspired (and uninspiring) fetch and kill quests running you all over Eorzea.

As far as choices... You have the choice of doing Leves over and over, or doing the same dungeons over and over, or doing the same FATEs over and over again... and so on, and so on. It's just a matter of which repetitive tasks you choose to participate in on each class.

But really, it's part and parcel with the approach Yoshi-P chose to take when re-designing XIV. His goal was to play it safe and make a "standard Modern MMORPG" but with a FF type story and lots of FF fan service. And that's exactly what he created.

People all figured "well great! I'm sure they'll do something unique with it!". I had that hope myself, considering how they took familiar systems in XI and found new, interesting ways to implement them. The creativity didn't stretch so far this time around, though, and he really did pretty much exactly what he said was going to do... make another "standard themepark MMO".

There are people who still love that setup, and so this is a great thing for them. The number of people overall who still enjoy the themepark design, though, are dwindling. Developers are starting to look to other ways of creating MMOs that are more sustainable content-wise and can hold players' interest for longer periods of time.

Now, a popular argument in defense of this system is "well, that's what a MMO is. There is no other way to present a MMO. Fetch and Kill quests are the standard. There is no better way to do it".

This is simply not true.

Warning: Spoilers follow for the The Secret World. Don't read if you intend to play it, or do play it and haven't yet done any missions out of The Franklin Mansion in Blue Mountain.

This is what I spent a good 40 minutes or so doing last night in The Secret World. Click Here. This mission presents a puzzle to you that requires you to figure out the clue given to you by a Ouija board, to decipher morse code conveyed by the blinking of a vehicle's headlights, to seek out a location hinted at by the morse code, and to be in spirit form (aka dead) to complete.

Before that, from the same location, the Franklin Mansion, I got a mission that had me time traveling to experience and survive the aftermath of some brutal murders/massacres in the mansion's past.

After that I got a mission where I was asked to go and help put to rest the spirits of some old friends of Mrs. Franklin and her husband in the nearby mines. This required a lot of sneaking around, avoiding traps, hulking enemies that would one shot you if you got too close, destroying caved-in areas with dynamite and finally having to face down one rather angry spirit at the end.

That's just 3 side missions (as in, not part of the main storyline), received from one character, in a single location inside a single zone. They're not an exception though. Pretty much every mission in the game is equally well written, equally diverse and can be just as challenging to complete - or even moreso (using walkthroughs and wikis notwithstanding... cheating to get through a mission doesn't make the mission itself "easy").

In the time it took me to complete just those 3 missions combined, I'd have done probably 2 dozen, or more, mindless "fetch and kill" quests in ARR... or most any other "standard themepark MMO".

TSW, so far, has hands-down the absolute best, most diverse, most clever, and most genuinely challenging quests/missions I've done in any MMORPG in my 10+ years playing them - with very little, if any, hand-holding. They actually leave it to you, the player, to figure these things out. It's my personal high water mark that I will hold all other MMOs against going forward. In my opinion, they utterly destroy the popular notion that "fetch and kill quests are the best we can ever expect in a MMORPG".

The case can no longer be argued that developers can't do anything better than the standard fetch-and-kill routine. The problem is, they simply don't.... largely because gamers with low expectations don't demand anything more of them.

Even though Yoshi-P had pretty much spelled out that he was walking the safe path and not doing anything "outside the box", I still expected more from ARR, especially coming from SE. I was pretty disappointed, to say the least.

grimal · September 2013

Originally posted by Ayulin

<snip>
Even though Yoshi-P had pretty much spelled out that he was walking the safe path and not doing anything "outside the box", I still expected more from ARR, especially coming from SE. I was pretty disappointed, to say the least.

I just finally started playing the game a few days ago and am very uninspired with the types of quests I am given. Pretty game for sure but really rather boring as far as beginning play goes.

bizoux86 · September 2013

Originally posted by cura

That was the main reason i left the game at level 15. I was affraid the rest of the game is the same and sold the account while i still could.

The first 15 levels are the tutorial! You should have at least leveled past that to get a better feel for the game Every games' tutorials are easy-mode, and this one is a bit slower than others even. But I think it is worth trying it till at least your 20's or 30's.

bizoux86 · September 2013

Originally posted by Ayulin

That still leaves you with the same problem the OP and others have pointed out...

A huge amount of uninspired (and uninspiring) fetch and kill quests running you all over Eorzea.

As far as choices... You have the choice of doing Leves over and over, or doing the same dungeons over and over, or doing the same FATEs over and over again... and so on, and so on. It's just a matter of which repetitive tasks you choose to participate in on each class.

But really, it's part and parcel with the approach Yoshi-P chose to take when re-designing XIV. His goal was to play it safe and make a "standard Modern MMORPG" but with a FF type story and lots of FF fan service. And that's exactly what he created.

People all figured "well great! I'm sure they'll do something unique with it!". I had that hope myself, considering how they took familiar systems in XI and found new, interesting ways to implement them. The creativity didn't stretch so far this time around, though, and he really did pretty much exactly what he said was going to do... make another "standard themepark MMO".

There are people who still love that setup, and so this is a great thing for them. The number of people overall who still enjoy the themepark design, though, are dwindling. Developers are starting to look to other ways of creating MMOs that are more sustainable content-wise and can hold players' interest for longer periods of time.

Now, a popular argument in defense of this system is "well, that's what a MMO is. There is no other way to present a MMO. Fetch and Kill quests are the standard. There is no better way to do it".

This is simply not true.

Warning: Spoilers follow for the The Secret World. Don't read if you intend to play it, or do play it and haven't yet done any missions out of The Franklin Mansion in Blue Mountain.

This is what I spent a good 40 minutes or so doing last night in The Secret World. Click Here. This mission presents a puzzle to you that requires you to figure out the clue given to you by a Ouija board, to decipher morse code conveyed by the blinking of a vehicle's headlights, to seek out a location hinted at by the morse code, and to be in spirit form (aka dead) to complete.

Before that, from the same location, the Franklin Mansion, I got a mission that had me time traveling to experience and survive the aftermath of some brutal murders/massacres in the mansion's past.

After that I got a mission where I was asked to go and help put to rest the spirits of some old friends of Mrs. Franklin and her husband in the nearby mines. This required a lot of sneaking around, avoiding traps, hulking enemies that would one shot you if you got too close, destroying caved-in areas with dynamite and finally having to face down one rather angry spirit at the end.

That's just 3 side missions (as in, not part of the main storyline), received from one character, in a single location inside a single zone. They're not an exception though. Pretty much every mission in the game is equally well written, equally diverse and can be just as challenging to complete - or even moreso (using walkthroughs and wikis notwithstanding... cheating to get through a mission doesn't make the mission itself "easy").

In the time it took me to complete just those 3 missions combined, I'd have done probably 2 dozen, or more, mindless "fetch and kill" quests in ARR... or most any other "standard themepark MMO".

TSW, so far, has hands-down the absolute best, most diverse, most clever, and most genuinely challenging quests/missions I've done in any MMORPG in my 10+ years playing them - with very little, if any, hand-holding. They actually leave it to you, the player, to figure these things out. It's my personal high water mark that I will hold all other MMOs against going forward. In my opinion, they utterly destroy the popular notion that "fetch and kill quests are the best we can ever expect in a MMORPG".

The case can no longer be argued that developers can't do anything better than the standard fetch-and-kill routine. The problem is, they simply don't.... largely because gamers with low expectations don't demand anything more of them.

Even though Yoshi-P had pretty much spelled out that he was walking the safe path and not doing anything "outside the box", I still expected more from ARR, especially coming from SE. I was pretty disappointed, to say the least.

Yeah, I have been dabbling in TSW and I absolutely love the questing system! I used to play the Myst games, not sure if you guys remember those old Mac games, but they were all about puzzles and figuring out how to get from one zone to another. I am so nostalgic for those games and now playing TSW I get a little bit of that feeling, I like that they give you puzzles that you actually have to think to solve! yay!

Ayulin · September 2013

Originally posted by bizoux86
Originally posted by cura

That was the main reason i left the game at level 15. I was affraid the rest of the game is the same and sold the account while i still could.

The first 15 levels are the tutorial! You should have at least leveled past that to get a better feel for the game Every games' tutorials are easy-mode, and this one is a bit slower than others even. But I think it is worth trying it till at least your 20's or 30's.

Except the game really doesn't change up all that much even into the 20s and 30s. I played up into those levels, and it's just more variations on the same theme.

This whole "moving the goalpost" thing really needs to stop.

If someone hasn't enjoyed their experience up to level 10, 15, 30, 50 or what-have-you... then they didn't enjoy the experience, and it's their right to say so.

Laying out arbitrary "requirements" that people "must meet" before they're "allowed to have an opinion" is just blatant, transparent fanboy behavior. People don't want to accept that someone else could possibly not like "their game", and so they start looking for ways to dismiss any negative opinion they encounter. It's narrow-minded and rather ignorant behavior.

It's also rather funny how those requirements are only placed on people with negative opinions. Make a post praising the game and, it doesn't matter if you just started playing 2 hours ago... your opinion is "right" and "valid" and deemed "well-informed".

Criticize the game, though, and it don't matter if you've played the game since launch and have done just about everything it offers up to that point... you somehow still aren't allowed to voice your opinion on it. Someone will find some new arbitrary "requirement" to throw at you.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Can we just knock it off and accept that not everyone is going to share a "glowing opinion" of the game just because others do?

Of course we can't... which is why this same crap happens around every MMO in existence.

Would be nice, though.

Psion33 · September 2013

People complain about kill x,y,z quests so they focus more on delivery quests...the gamers still get mad.

That's why as a gamer I hate fellow gamers (primarily the whiners and F2Pers.)

bizoux86 · September 2013

Originally posted by Ayulin
Originally posted by bizoux86
Originally posted by cura

That was the main reason i left the game at level 15. I was affraid the rest of the game is the same and sold the account while i still could.

The first 15 levels are the tutorial! You should have at least leveled past that to get a better feel for the game Every games' tutorials are easy-mode, and this one is a bit slower than others even. But I think it is worth trying it till at least your 20's or 30's.

Except the game really doesn't change up all that much even into the 20s and 30s. I played up into those levels, and it's just more variations on the same theme.

This whole "moving the goalpost" thing really needs to stop.

If someone hasn't enjoyed their experience up to level 10, 15, 30, 50 or what-have-you... then they didn't enjoy the experience, and it's their right to say so.

Laying out arbitrary "requirements" that people "must meet" before they're "allowed to have an opinion" is just blatant, transparent fanboy behavior. People don't want to accept that someone else could possibly not like "their game", and so they start looking for ways to dismiss any negative opinion they encounter. It's narrow-minded and rather ignorant behavior.

It's also rather funny how those requirements are only placed on people with negative opinions. Make a post praising the game and, it doesn't matter if you just started playing 2 hours ago... your opinion is "right" and "valid" and deemed "well-informed".

Criticize the game, though, and it don't matter if you've played the game since launch and have done just about everything it offers up to that point... you somehow still aren't allowed to voice your opinion on it. Someone will find some new arbitrary "requirement" to throw at you.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Can we just knock it off and accept that not everyone is going to share a "glowing opinion" of the game just because others do?

Of course we can't... which is why this same crap happens around every MMO in existence.

Would be nice, though.

I was absolutely not "laying out arbitrary requirements that people must meet." I was just saying that it has been widely publicized that the first 15 levels are a tutorial and that I thought it only fair to the game to give it more than just the tutorial to base an opinion on! Your post was a bit overly dramatic for the post I put up. It was a suggestion for the player. I understand completely if he/she does not want to play anymore.

I don't care one way or another if you don't play the game, it obviously doesn't affect me at all. I have not yet given the game a full review in my own mind yet, I do believe it warrants (as any games does) a fair chance. I do not have a "glowing opinion" of this games, in fact I am still trying to level up (I am only at 22!) and I am by no means a fanboy of this game, I bought it however and want to get my money's worth from it.

In addition, I did not tell the above poster that his opinions were wrong or that they didn't matter, if it came across that way I apologize sincerely. I think that what I said can be applied to any game, there are a lot of games that I have tried and only played for a few hours, said I didn't like it and dismissed it. Then went back sometime later and found that I actually enjoyed the game, especially once I had gotten past the tutorial and into some more hard core game play.

I don't think it is fair to give a glowing review to a game if you haven't played it more than a few hours, but I also think it is unfair to give a game a scathing review after only playing a few hours too!

Hyanmen · September 2013

Do you have to travel in-game to fulfill objectives? I was hoping to login as a level capped character but no, SE is making me do all these non-loot whoring things

faiyo · September 2013

Originally posted by Psion33
People complain about kill x,y,z quests so they focus more on delivery quests...the gamers still get mad.

That's why as a gamer I hate fellow gamers (primarily the whiners and F2Pers.)

So, js you might not want to do what you hate so much about gamers in the process.

Those countless delivery quests are pretty much .. insane. I agree, but what can you do. The'yre optional. Even though the common excuse is "it's a tutorial" I'm sure a player would understand the concept of those quest with just one or two of them.

Reserton · September 2013

Originally posted by TheHavok
Because I sure do. And I really wish these guys had phones.

First 20 levels? you mean first 50?

Psion33 · September 2013

Originally posted by Reserton
Originally posted by TheHavok
Because I sure do. And I really wish these guys had phones.

First 20 levels? you mean first 50?

Who's more stupid, the one making the assumption or the one making an assumption off an assumption?

El oh el.

Sunnyguy46 · September 2013

To everyone who's complaining:

Uninstall and go away. If you don't like the game, leave. The rest of us who enjoy the game would prefer not to listen to your whining. You are not helping or providing a service. You're just making those enjoying the game feel uneasy because they must be some sort of freak or idiot for having the gall to enjoy such a horrible game.

Juaks · September 2013

Do not worry about low level content, you will fly over those levels in few hours like in any other game. Leveling is way too fast in FFXIV, which I don't like much but whatever.

Psion33 · September 2013

Originally posted by Juaks
Do not worry about low level content, you will fly over those levels in few hours like in any other game. Leveling is way too fast in FFXIV, which I don't like much but whatever.

Good point, I was a bit worried about the new FF having the levelling system of FF 11. Ouch.

Sunnyguy46 · September 2013

Originally posted by Juaks
Do not worry about low level content, you will fly over those levels in few hours like in any other game. Leveling is way too fast in FFXIV, which I don't like much but whatever.

I've played 126 hours and my highest level is 26 PUG. I don't farm FATES all day, maybe that is the difference. I actually try to enjoy the game instead of racing to cap. Foolish me.

Ridelynn · September 2013

There were a lot inside the city to force you to get to know the layout, and a few to get you out to new quest hubs... but not an inordinate amount.

Alders · September 2013

The quest flow in general is pretty terrible.

Akulas · September 2013

Yeah even though I plvl'd I had to go back to get my airship pass + level up alt class

Psion33 · September 2013

Originally posted by Sunnyguy46
Originally posted by Juaks
Do not worry about low level content, you will fly over those levels in few hours like in any other game. Leveling is way too fast in FFXIV, which I don't like much but whatever.

I've played 126 hours and my highest level is 26 PUG. I don't farm FATES all day, maybe that is the difference. I actually try to enjoy the game instead of racing to cap. Foolish me.

If you're comparing yourself to others then yes, you are very foolish for comparing yourself to others when you have nothing.

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Anybody else notice the ridiculous amount of delivery quest the first 20 levels?

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Anybody else notice the ridiculous amount of delivery quest the first 20 levels?

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