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Elitist tanks/healers
HabitualFrogStomp
Member UncommonPosts: 370
Its ironic in this game where any player can really be any class at anytime, this sentiment seems to be more common place. Im not new to MMO's. Ive played anything from EQ2 to SWG. In a lot of the groups that Ive been in as an archer, the two DPS classes (including myself) get treated like second rate citizens by either the tank or the healer. Dont get me wrong, Im not offended by it, it just needed to be said. In fact I think its funny considering half the healers in this game are clueless and more than half of the tanks cant hold aggro if their moms life depended on it. Yes, maybe your job is like slightly more difficult than mine, have a cookie all to yourself and calm down. Its not as if the game is overly hard for any class.
I know there are more DPS classes too, so that the services you provide are oh so exclusive. That means you get to get in groups easier than I do, but it doesnt really afford you the right to act like an obnoxious chode about it either.
So if you play a tank or healer, and find yourself wanting to bag out the DPS because their jobs just arent as important as yours, leave the group, go do some furious masturbating and then return a calmer individual. DPS makes up exactly half the group for a reason, so you get that precious xp life blood more faster. [mod edit]
Comments
I am a healer & I am better than you.
That is all.
No man, this is a problem with the dungeon finder and anonymity. People can treat people how ever they want with no consequences because you will never meet those people ever gain. IF you all played on the same server and earned a reputation as an idiot, guy who can't dodge, heal, tank, gimp, dps, rage quitter or what have you, you wouldn't get groups as easily and should hopefully make you better your playstyle or manners.
But, since we can do what ever we want in any group, we can basically treat people how we want, play how we want, quit when we want, die when we want, with no consequences (small ones only, like wait 15 minutes, or repair gear). But there is ZERO reputation loss
So, while dps classes are second class citizens (just joking), all classes can be jerks, it just depends on the person. I mean, I've ran into dps guys who can't dps the boss down and we die, or dps who try to face tank AOE's either by stupidity or assuming the healer will heal them. I talk smack to them sometimes, but they always talk smack to me if I lose an Add for a split second so my point is
1. The smack talk has been a two way street in my experience (i.e. seen smack talk started by every class in a variety of situations)
2. The dungeon finder should just be for servers only not across all servers, thereby eliminating the anonymity.
(And yes, if you are on a server and piss off everyone you meet in a PUG you are less likely to get invited to other groups and people know to avoid you) (Don't say to me, ohhh I've known tons of jerks who could get a group no problem so your theory is stupid. I'm saying that those guys can build a bad reputation and it hurts them when LF a group if the groups are same server only.
Smack talk doesnt bother me in the slightest, this is a final fantasy game. The worst smack talk Ive seen thus far is "you're a big dumb head."
Its just the general perception that whack a mole and annoy a mole can only be experienced by delicate geniuses that rubs my rhubarb the wrong way. And that us DPS guys are sitting at our keyboard drooling on ourselves, since we accidentally ate a rock for breakfast and broke all our teeth.
You've what, 3 weeks to carry on the charade that playing your class is hard before everyone left on the server has mastered it as well. Then what? Start cutting yourself?
[mod edit]
yes, many tanks cant hold aggro.
yes, many healers cant heal.
yes, all dps blame the above.
as a dps, its not about just spamming all your dps skills, its about managing your dps, and not going all out from the get go.
but i guess not spamming all your skills as hard as you can, and then getting aggro is the tanks fault.
im dps/bard, 50. currenlty playing tank, (was a tank 6 years in the game which you obviously came from)
i feel like saying so much, instead, just think of it as a team game, you help the tank, which in return help the healer, which on return helps you.. win/win.
There is also a HUGE difference between;
"Everyone can be any class at any time" and
"Everyone can be any class at any time, and play it well"
An amateur Healer might Heal normal content fine just mashing basic heals. HM content, and say a Titan fight and you are gonna want a focused healer.
I play my Bard well, I do a decent Monk, but wouldn't begin to trust myself Healing without a LOT more experience in doing so. Knowing what heals to use, when to use them, how to maintain Mana and not pull endless aggro, is an art all in its own right and I have nothing but respect for those that do it right.
OP, it isn't DPS vs Tanks and Healers. Take some of your own medicine and calm down. Try playing a tank or healer, and see how frustrating it is to deal with people who can't play by basic MMO mechanics. I haven't played FFXIV, but this kind of stuff is common in other MMOs.
I tank for groups in Rift only when I feel tolerant enough of stupid people to not get angry and stop playing. Sometimes, though, people get too much on my nerves and make me quit the group and deal with the dungeon queue lockout timer. One recent example was a healer who kept pulling, even if I was waiting on cooldowns between fights. I often get DPS who think it is okay to go AFK without saying anything, or DPS who get too excited and aggro the boss before everyone is ready. Someone who really got on my nerves recently was a healer who was in the wrong spec, but didn't say anything about needing time before I started pulling. I gave everyone a minute to grab the quests at the entrance and buff up, but we wiped because the healer wasn't ready. That part was tolerable, but the healer blaming the rest of us and calling us nasty names which I won't repeat was what really got me to just leave the group.
Most people play as DPS because they don't want any responsibilities. If the DPS of the group isn't amazing, it generally doesn't hinder the group's progression by much. If the tank or healer are not on top of their game, things can go bad very quickly. Show some appreciation for those who are willing to step up and deal with responsibility, or play a tank/healer yourself so you can see why they quickly get tired of bad DPS in the group.
I obviously can't speak on your situations as i was not there however you might be missing something.
usually when players complain about a dps it is because the DPS is spamming and not allowing the Tank to hold hate.Last i remember there is no hate meter so you need to learn your class in a group setting and get a feel for how much dps yo ucan deliver without stealing hate.
If you make it too easy for a Tank to hold hate,then imo it is a poorly designed game,it should be about teamwork and control ,not "spamming attacks".
I can't speak of higher levels but at lower levels i found all classes to be sort of weak,not even sure about Tanking as i did not do any of it in a group.I have also not done many group fights,so i am not sure if they have any Hate reset mechanics,i know Square likes to use that in Boss Ai.
Personally i hate high strung players,i like to be totally relaxed and not in a rush to get the fight done,i play to relax and have fun,not to prove anything or to race to anything.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I'm a tank and the only time i say anything to anybody is in my targeting macro.
Now if you start bad mouthing me then I will leave the instance because I can get into a new instance with in just a few min.
So the only person you are hurting by bad mouthing me is your self.
Awesome! +1
Eh its how grumpy people get with how bad players are. Personally I have that 'golden threshold' where I typically can't stand a player and will call them out on being bad and doing something wrong REPEATEDLY that they should of figured out the first 3+ times... depending how happy of a mood I am at the time.
The reason you likely see it more with tanks and healers is, bluntly speaking, Tank and healer is a FAR more important job that dps, and as such they can hold the greatest effect on the game with it. Tank dies, party typically wipes, healer dies party typically wipes, dps dies... it can be rough but the party wiping isn't usually a major factor unless its some timed phase in which good tanking or heals can't make up for it. its typically more challenge then dps to play as well due to the absolute little room for failure. Just a snip it in case you wanted to know from I suppose a "slightly-more forgiving" elitist if you really want to tag the term on me.
Don't confuse a person for being elite for one who just gets tired of stupid mistakes being repeated multiple times by the same person that has no reason why it couldn't of been fixed after the 1st or 2nd flop.
I play a tank and my usual experience with multiple mobs is as follows :
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Actually my Free Company commonly runs with 2 Tanks and 1 healer and 1 dps, so the DPS is only 25% of our Group :P
There are certainly a lot of inexperienced players of all classes in FFXIV, the thing about Tanks and Healers that you gloss over is... They chose a class that is centered around making other people successful, they chose a class that has more responsibility then just running around pew pewing and gloating over the DPS meter :P
Elitism in an MMO? Wow! This has to be something unique to XIV.
Sarcasm aside. Most of the healers and tanks I have seen so far are pretty bad. So the ones who know what they are doing, do, in fact have something to prove.
I spent most of my day running Amdapor keep with my buddy. He is a tank, I'm a healer. We queued up in the duty finder for two DPS.
Here is the thing, if your getting your ass chewed; it's because your terrible. I dunno how many dumbass DPS I ran into today that couldn't follow instructions, could keep their dumb asses out of red shit, couldn't focus on the same target, didnt use LBs properly, or where entirely incapable of beating soft enrage timers like the last repel on Demon Door or killing the last boss before you run out of pillars to hide behind.
We got to the point where we were cherishing DPS that could simply manage to stay out of the purple goo and not get knocked off the side of demon wall, regardless of the fact there damage was absolutely pathetic.
It's fucking frustrating. The quality of DPS in the duty finder is abysmal. I've ran into the occasional bad tank, but the DPS are just consistently terrible. Dragoons and Summoners in particular breed a special type of awful for some reason
Well at least a couple of people read the post and got what I was trying to say, thats all I can expect or ask on this site. Yes I know, it was an ill advised post, but sometimes I can not help myself. I figure the people who hold this notion are exactly the type to frequent this site, where else best to post it?
I havent had a wipe yet in a group. Yes Ive pulled aggro off the tank before, yes the healer has had to heal me. No I have never been blamed personally for it. Yes a healer has left the group I was in because I bad mouthed him because of constant condescending remarks to the other DPS class in my group. No Ive never been commended on the job I was doing as a lowly DPS class, which hurts my feelings.
Anyways, those are my personal experiences, I've been in about 30 PUG's thus far and I noticed a common theme, that's why I posted this.
Dont like it, too bad? Thats my experience. Like I said, its only a matter of a short time until players start mastering these other classes as well and it will be a non issue. But the point was, for the time being, those other two classes need to stop acting like twats about it. Or not.
Was going to make a serious reply, but then the OP started throwing out elitism & insults. Kiddo, if you haven't played WoW, you have absolutely no right whatsoever to pass judgment on it, or any of the people who have played it. You talk about elitism, then proceed to proclaim to the high heavens that you're superior to millions of people. Irony is a beautiful thing sometimes.
That's pretty much been my experience when I try to tank as well.. I haven't made it past L17 yet on my tank.
It just isn't fun. I don't have the tools to deal with DPS that doesn't want to play nice - and it seems they love to not play nice just to F with the tank. Probably people just like the OP here, telling people to play with his genitals.
At least as a healer I can let retarded DPS die in a fire, and feel better about myself.
As a tank, I can say that most DPS have doing well when i use the Duty Finder. The only problem I have is with Archers/Bards and sometime Thaumaturges/Black Mages, They usually do their damndest to use all of their hard hitting skill and pull aggro. But as a paladin, I have enough wit to pull them back. And if they keep doing it, I tell them that I'm the main tank and not them. As a healer, I've seen tons of DPS do their job well and tanks not know what they are doing, it's maddening since I tank when I'm not leveling up my conjurer. There have been a few DPS characters that would run ahead and pull mobs to get us wiped.
I wouldn't say you where the problem OP. But if you did something that ticked off one of the two classes, then maybe you deserved the yell. But if the tank and/or healer messed up and they blamed you, just ignore them and leave.
This forum improves 10 fold after a night at the pub. The thread title should have been "Elitist tanks/healers/dps".
It's obvious that everyone agrees on the topic, but most are too busy drawing pictures in their own little box to look passed the petty words and finger pointing. Elitism is a bad thing no matter your role and only serves to hurt the team.
I treat everyone in the group equally and respectfully. I think I may spoil the DPS sometimes. I tend to hold aggro even when they are attacking multiple targets, and I just adjust my rotation instead of yell at them.
I haven't had the pleasure to see how other Tanks act or play yet. So I'm sort of oblivious to it, but I do know the mentality from other games. Honestly, I'm trying to go out of my way on being nice and funny in hopes it spreads to others lol. Pugs or otherwise.
DPS don't take any responsibility of the group, so they don't get to vote.
And yes, they are second class citizens in the group, because there is three of them for each tank and healer (in the group, outside it there's probably 20 DPS for each tank and healer).
Don't like it, roll a tank or a healer.
Sorry, but that's how it goes.
Why do you think there is 20 or more DPS for each tank and healer? Because it's the slacker, no responsibility job that still gets equally paid.
This us versus them mentality is what breeds this sort of behavior in the first place. It doesn't matter who started the cycle, but what matters is that people need to learn patience and empathy even in video games!
DPS do have their own responsibility in groups. There are plenty of fights where DPS either have to CC, burn down adds, trigger objects, break people out of objects, and just kill stuff in general. My rotation as a Tank can't be that much more complicated then a DPS if at all.
As someone mentioned earlier, all sides are at fault really. It's just people being people I suppose. Some tanks and healers need to stop acting like prima donna's, and some DPS need to stop acting like they can do no wrong.
P.S. It's two DPS to a group. This game only has 4 man's early on.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Archers/Bard can easily take aggro off the tank, they are arguably one of the highest dps there is and you need to take that in consideration.
Look at the top left corner where you have your parties names and there is a small box on the icon of your classes that fills and has a number. THAT is the aggro meter showing who has most hate from 1 to 4 with a bar rising indicating you might go from 2 to 1.
Pay attention to it not spam every skill possible.
I started as lancer and might have took aggro from a tank and such but you can't simply know how hard is to control multiple targets when even marking them 1, 2, 3 you get the group attacking them endlessly.
After I got dragoon to 50 I started warrior and the amount of stupidity and elitism from DPS is BIG!
- You will get dps that they think they can tank.
- You will get dps that keep on pulling mobs eventough I have a ranged attack.
- You will get dps that rush and recklessly sometimes pull more mobs.
- You will get dps that aoe all 3 mobs instead of focusing on the 1 wasting the poor caster's sleep.
- You will get dps that think it's good to take aggro from the tank then go running away and wasting healer's mp.
There is more of that and you WON'T see this as dps but you will as tank or healer.