As I got my LTW to 50, I had a sense of relief. "Alright, I'm done with THAT part of the game..." I thought to myself. I figured with my newfound craft, I'd be able to start making money almost immediately in the game. There is just one small problem; there is no demand for hardly anything. Gear, which should be utilized to a degree by all classes, isn't necessary. Because of the incredible ease of the game, it hasn't been uncommon to see people wearing severely outdated gear throughout the game. I've seen level 40's rocking level 18 armor, and to no real penalty. Since there's no reason for combat classes to buy gear, there's no reason to craft combat gear. Furthermore, combat classes can get gear cheaper/free, and easier simply by doing quests and dungeons. Furthermore, due to Issue#2, people are leveling so fast and efficiently that there's no reason to EVER buy gear! In fact, the irony of crafting +gathering and +crafting gear is that the only people who buy it is fellow crafters and gatherers. Essentially, you're creating gear for crafting because it's mandatory, but crafting has no purpose other than to build more crafting gear...and, of course, materia melding. I basically spent all my gil buying crystals and ingredients to level a craft which is now essentially worthless. Also, since no one needs to buy anything... there is no economy. Gil is essentially used to skilling up a craft, or repairing your end game gear. That's it. And once you lose it, it's 10x harder to make it back, because there is ample supply, and meager demand. This is probably related to the fact that..."
Which is sad, because I think the crafting mechanics in this game are great. Did you ever play Vanguard?
This. My ltw and armorer are both like around 45, made around 70k gi ish from crafting, and around 95% of it are from selling crafting meterial or gear , like steel ingot, leather, gloves for crafter..etc. battle classes gears are extreamly hard to sell. Why anyone buy a piece of leather armor for 5000 gil which increases your defense by merly 8, and only for the 3 hours before you replace it with a new one? you can even get better gear and weapons from GC quatermasters with seals which is extramly easy to get. The crafting part of the game is almost entirely seperated from the combat part, people buys crafted items only for crafting, and to make more crafted item to sell to other crafters. LOL
Actually you're right about that and also because many many people love to craft...just for the sake of crafting. I know a lot of combat only people won't understand that but when housing and other non-combat stuff opens up (as well as PVP) crafters will VERY busy.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Ever notice the same bitter vets show up in every thread and try to help us understand why the game is fail and we are foolish to enjoy such a pile of drivel?
Why try to categorize everyone who doesn't like this game or any game into one or very few groups?
There are probably a myriad of reasons why different people didn't like a game you like just like there are many reasons others do like it.
Just be happy you and others do like the game and hopefully enough continue to like the game and make it profitable.
The first step in discriminating is labeling and we can already see some of that beginning in this thread.
It's just people insecure or otherwise closed-minded in their own opinions trying to marginalize those who don't share them.
There's this really strange emotional attachment many develop toward "their game", and it drives them to feel they have to "defend" it against any and all criticism. A favorite tactic is to - in some typically intellectually dishonest manner - squeeze them into a categorical box that they can then dismiss, rather than face the "ugly reality" that "their game" may not be the beacon of perfection they want to believe it is, and that not everyone is going to share their opinions of it.
The flip-side to that is when they somehow feel "betrayed" by said game; they become its strongest and most vocal detractors.
Originally posted by Ayulin Originally posted by DrakynnWhy try to categorize everyone who doesn't like this game or any game into one or very few groups?There are probably a myriad of reasons why different people didn't like a game you like just like there are many reasons others do like it.Just be happy you and others do like the game and hopefully enough continue to like the game and make it profitable.The first step in discriminating is labeling and we can already see some of that beginning in this thread.
It's just people insecure or otherwise closed-minded in their own opinions trying to marginalize those who don't share them.
There's this really strange emotional attachment many develop toward "their game", and it drives them to feel they have to "defend" it against any and all criticism. A favorite tactic is to - in some typically intellectually dishonest manner - squeeze them into a categorical box that they can then dismiss, rather than face the "ugly reality" that "their game" may not be the beacon of perfection they want to believe it is, and that not everyone is going to share their opinions of it.
The flip-side to that is when they somehow feel "betrayed" by said game; they become its strongest and most vocal detractors.
Don't try to understand them. Just pity them.
Wow is that how you interpreted my original post? I sincerely hope not.
Agreed, OP. I share your exact sentiments with the crafting in the game. I am neutral towards the combat and questing and open to the distaste people have with them. I find them adequate to the game, at best. I empathize with those who find FATEs simplistic because I share the same opinion. I don't like everything in the game, but I do know I like the crafting.
Crafting takes the forefront for me in the game. Ergo, that aspect shapes up the game to have a bigger potential for a positive community. Every thing else in the game just adds to it to form a complete package bumping it up from the average "this year's hyped MMO" to something more. It is definitely not for everyone, but it is exactly what is making the game stand out for me.
I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....
The hard mode raids felt very simple and were hinged upon the correct tank position more than any other aspect. I can't say they were fun, because they were not challenging. Anybody who says the combat is more methodical than other MMOs is completely incorrect; it's pretty much the same as WoW. I find the cross-class ability system to be used as an extension of my job and it's expected of me to have those abilities for raidtime. The cross-class system is terrible because I am forced to choose from 2 classes; this doesn't make me very unique at all from the next player with the same job as me. Also, to cap out mythology tomestones each week I have to run the one same dungeon over and over which is boring.
Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.
I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....
The hard mode raids felt very simple and were hinged upon the correct tank position more than any other aspect. I can't say they were fun, because they were not challenging. Anybody who says the combat is more methodical than other MMOs is completely incorrect; it's pretty much the same as WoW. I find the cross-class ability system to be used as an extension of my job and it's expected of me to have those abilities for raidtime. The cross-class system is terrible because I am forced to choose from 2 classes; this doesn't make me very unique at all from the next player with the same job as me. Also, to cap out mythology tomestones each week I have to run the one same dungeon over and over which is boring.
Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.
When you say very easy to craft, what itemlevel of crafts are you attempting at what level?
About relic weapon +1: I agree, crafted fully melded hq versions are not on par due to the primary "damage" stat being so important and inferior on hq version. They need to fix that, really.
About comparing to equips bought with philosophy tomestones; sure the non-melded HQ versions are comparable to those bought with philosophy tomestones; but properly melded ones are superior.
Properly pentamelded HQ versions are comparable to AF+1 gear (need tome of mythology for that), but AF+1 is job specific and there are classes for where it is far from clear that the job is better than being a class due to lost cross-class abilities; Lancer vs Dragoon is a such case.
Allagan gear (bahamut coil i90 drops) is though comparable to properly pentamelded HQ versions.
--------------------------
Perhaps it is too easy currently to get AF+1 and Bahamut Coil gear, while it is too hard to get properly pentamelded HQ i70 crafted gear; if so I hope Yoichi fixes it like he fixed the repair issues.
I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....
The hard mode raids felt very simple and were hinged upon the correct tank position more than any other aspect. I can't say they were fun, because they were not challenging. Anybody who says the combat is more methodical than other MMOs is completely incorrect; it's pretty much the same as WoW. I find the cross-class ability system to be used as an extension of my job and it's expected of me to have those abilities for raidtime. The cross-class system is terrible because I am forced to choose from 2 classes; this doesn't make me very unique at all from the next player with the same job as me. Also, to cap out mythology tomestones each week I have to run the one same dungeon over and over which is boring.
Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.
When you say very easy to craft, what itemlevel of crafts are you attempting at what level?
About relic weapon +1: I agree, crafted fully melded hq versions are not on par due to the primary "damage" stat being so important and inferior on hq version. They need to fix that, really.
About comparing to equips bought with philosophy tomestones; sure the non-melded HQ versions are comparable to those bought with philosophy tomestones; but properly melded ones are superior.
Properly pentamelded HQ versions are comparable to AF+1 gear (need tome of mythology for that), but AF+1 is job specific and there are classes for where it is far from clear that the job is better than being a class due to lost cross-class abilities; Lancer vs Dragoon is a such case.
Allagan gear (bahamut coil i90 drops) is though comparable to properly pentamelded HQ versions.
--------------------------
Perhaps it is too easy currently to get AF+1 and Bahamut Coil gear, while it is too hard to get properly pentamelded HQ i70 crafted gear; if so I hope Yoichi fixes it like he fixed the repair issues.
I was doing 1 star lvl 50 Leatherworking with full HQ gear. Half of my gear didn't even have materia in it because it wasn't needed to get HQ on my crafts.
Melding the crafted DoW gear does make a superior item, but it's probably very small. I never melded any DoW gear, but if it's anything like melding the Crafting gear then we can probably only get a few points extra into each stat, before hitting cap.
Jobs are definitely far superior than classes, and we are not unique in any way.
I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....
The hard mode raids felt very simple and were hinged upon the correct tank position more than any other aspect. I can't say they were fun, because they were not challenging. Anybody who says the combat is more methodical than other MMOs is completely incorrect; it's pretty much the same as WoW. I find the cross-class ability system to be used as an extension of my job and it's expected of me to have those abilities for raidtime. The cross-class system is terrible because I am forced to choose from 2 classes; this doesn't make me very unique at all from the next player with the same job as me. Also, to cap out mythology tomestones each week I have to run the one same dungeon over and over which is boring.
Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.
When you say very easy to craft, what itemlevel of crafts are you attempting at what level?
About relic weapon +1: I agree, crafted fully melded hq versions are not on par due to the primary "damage" stat being so important and inferior on hq version. They need to fix that, really.
About comparing to equips bought with philosophy tomestones; sure the non-melded HQ versions are comparable to those bought with philosophy tomestones; but properly melded ones are superior.
Properly pentamelded HQ versions are comparable to AF+1 gear (need tome of mythology for that), but AF+1 is job specific and there are classes for where it is far from clear that the job is better than being a class due to lost cross-class abilities; Lancer vs Dragoon is a such case.
Allagan gear (bahamut coil i90 drops) is though comparable to properly pentamelded HQ versions.
--------------------------
Perhaps it is too easy currently to get AF+1 and Bahamut Coil gear, while it is too hard to get properly pentamelded HQ i70 crafted gear; if so I hope Yoichi fixes it like he fixed the repair issues.
I was doing 1 star lvl 50 Leatherworking with full HQ gear. Half of my gear didn't even have materia in it because it wasn't needed to get HQ on my crafts.
Melding the crafted DoW gear does make a superior item, but it's probably very small. I never melded any DoW gear, but if it's anything like melding the Crafting gear then we can probably only get a few points extra into each stat, before hitting cap.
Jobs are definitely far superior than classes, and we are not unique in any way.
About dragoon vs lancer:
As a dragoon you get several "instant cast" abilities, but you lose gladiator off-tank cross-class abilities, archer damage buff and accuracy/dex buff as well ass long-cooldown support abilities.
I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....
The hard mode raids felt very simple and were hinged upon the correct tank position more than any other aspect. I can't say they were fun, because they were not challenging. Anybody who says the combat is more methodical than other MMOs is completely incorrect; it's pretty much the same as WoW. I find the cross-class ability system to be used as an extension of my job and it's expected of me to have those abilities for raidtime. The cross-class system is terrible because I am forced to choose from 2 classes; this doesn't make me very unique at all from the next player with the same job as me. Also, to cap out mythology tomestones each week I have to run the one same dungeon over and over which is boring.
Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.
When you say very easy to craft, what itemlevel of crafts are you attempting at what level?
About relic weapon +1: I agree, crafted fully melded hq versions are not on par due to the primary "damage" stat being so important and inferior on hq version. They need to fix that, really.
About comparing to equips bought with philosophy tomestones; sure the non-melded HQ versions are comparable to those bought with philosophy tomestones; but properly melded ones are superior.
Properly pentamelded HQ versions are comparable to AF+1 gear (need tome of mythology for that), but AF+1 is job specific and there are classes for where it is far from clear that the job is better than being a class due to lost cross-class abilities; Lancer vs Dragoon is a such case.
Allagan gear (bahamut coil i90 drops) is though comparable to properly pentamelded HQ versions.
--------------------------
Perhaps it is too easy currently to get AF+1 and Bahamut Coil gear, while it is too hard to get properly pentamelded HQ i70 crafted gear; if so I hope Yoichi fixes it like he fixed the repair issues.
I was doing 1 star lvl 50 Leatherworking with full HQ gear. Half of my gear didn't even have materia in it because it wasn't needed to get HQ on my crafts.
Melding the crafted DoW gear does make a superior item, but it's probably very small. I never melded any DoW gear, but if it's anything like melding the Crafting gear then we can probably only get a few points extra into each stat, before hitting cap.
Jobs are definitely far superior than classes, and we are not unique in any way.
About melding Disciple of War gear compared to melding Crafting gear: yes the caps matter. For instance on "Darksteel Chain Hof", which has strength, vitality, accuracy and determination; it is unlikely that you will be able to meld much into those stats; but you got critical hit and skill speed "open". (Parry if you are going offtank route)
Originally posted by Touc I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months.... Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.
Well, I played SWG primarily as a crafter for over 8 years.
I think people claiming they love crafting then quickly dismiss it because some armor and weapons have better stats than crafted ones. Then they complain that you're only crafting for other crafters. Then they go off about how great SWG crafting was.
I'm the first to say SWG was the best crafting in an mmo, but to ignore how it really worked so you can bash crafting in FFXIV is not too sharp.
As a crafter in SWG, the majority of what I made was for non combat classes. In fact, most crafting professions needed items made by other crafters. That is a direct similarity to FFXIV crafting.
In SWG, dropped weapons and armor destroyed the stats on the best crafted armor and weapons, period. I had an exceptional reinforced combat staff that had far superior stats to any crafted polearm in the game. Slapped an ant decay kit on it and I was done with weaponsmiths, right? Wrong. I actually had a room in my house dedicated to poelarms. Most of them crafted. A lot of them I used regularly. I liked to fact they were made by another player. I liked the fact that there were so many weapon models. In fact, a lot of people collected weapons and armor because of the look or even a certain stat they liked that may not have been better than a rare drop. Who knows everyone's intentions. But it is clear that weaponsmiths werent bankrupt because of higher statted drops and adks. People cried about it a lot, but the good crafters were fine.
So now Im looking at FFXIV crafting and I see great looking weapon and armor models that are not obtained through drops. The ability to dye them and meld unique stats. I see interdependency across all crafting and gathering classes. I see crafters making items for crafters (oh my gawd!) which is a good thing. No actually, its a great thing.
I see weapons and armor being crafted for both combat and no combat classes, food that benefits both combat and non combat classes, crafted necklaces and rings which are visible on your character (customization+ there). Furniture and decor coming in a couple months with the housing.
And dont forget yoshida's plan to make crafting an integral part of the pvp system.
So if you want to turn your microscope to some raid gear stats and write off the entire crafting system, go ahead. But don't be surprised by people like myself who write replies like this.
Anyone who loves crafting in mmos knows that a good crafting system is so much more than +2 vitality more than the best raid loot. This game has a fantastic crafting structure. Best since SWG in my humble opinion. I hope that people who love crafting read this and are not discouraged by people who cannot see the forest through the trees.
Originally posted by Touc I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....
Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.
Well, I played SWG primarily as a crafter for over 8 years.
I think people claiming they love crafting then quickly dismiss it because some armor and weapons have better stats than crafted ones. Then they complain that you're only crafting for other crafters. Then they go off about how great SWG crafting was.
I'm the first to say SWG was the best crafting in an mmo, but to ignore how it really worked so you can bash crafting in FFXIV is not too sharp.
As a crafter in SWG, the majority of what I made was for non combat classes. In fact, most crafting professions needed items made by other crafters. That is a direct similarity to FFXIV crafting.
In SWG, dropped weapons and armor destroyed the stats on the best crafted armor and weapons, period. I had an exceptional reinforced combat staff that had far superior stats to any crafted polearm in the game. Slapped an ant decay kit on it and I was done with weaponsmiths, right? Wrong. I actually had a room in my house dedicated to poelarms. Most of them crafted. A lot of them I used regularly. I liked to fact they were made by another player. I liked the fact that there were so many weapon models. In fact, a lot of people collected weapons and armor because of the look or even a certain stat they liked that may not have been better than a rare drop. Who knows everyone's intentions. But it is clear that weaponsmiths werent bankrupt because of higher statted drops and adks. People cried about it a lot, but the good crafters were fine.
So now Im looking at FFXIV crafting and I see great looking weapon and armor models that are not obtained through drops. The ability to dye them and meld unique stats. I see interdependency across all crafting and gathering classes. I see crafters making items for crafters (oh my gawd!) which is a good thing. No actually, its a great thing.
I see weapons and armor being crafted for both combat and no combat classes, food that benefits both combat and non combat classes, crafted necklaces and rings which are visible on your character (customization+ there). Furniture and decor coming in a couple months with the housing.
And dont forget yoshida's plan to make crafting an integral part of the pvp system.
So if you want to turn your microscope to some raid gear stats and write off the entire crafting system, go ahead. But don't be surprised by people like myself who write replies like this.
Anyone who loves crafting in mmos knows that a good crafting system is so much more than +2 vitality more than the best raid loot. This game has a fantastic crafting structure. Best since SWG in my humble opinion. I hope that people who love crafting read this and are not discouraged by people who cannot see the forest through the trees.
I meant to say SWG-PreCU when crafters crafted for everyone and could make the best stuff in the game. i always use SWG crafting as a benchmark because it was the best.
Crafters making items for crafters is pretty much all we do right now. The market is about to die on my server. All we have to hope for is the next patch in 2 months. If the first 3 months of release are supposed to be a grinding period in the game while we wait for the real content for crafters, then I could understand our current state. I really feel like the big 2.1 patch is going to make or break the economy in this game and may render crafting useless.
As I got my LTW to 50, I had a sense of relief. "Alright, I'm done with THAT part of the game..." I thought to myself. I figured with my newfound craft, I'd be able to start making money almost immediately in the game. There is just one small problem; there is no demand for hardly anything. Gear, which should be utilized to a degree by all classes, isn't necessary. Because of the incredible ease of the game, it hasn't been uncommon to see people wearing severely outdated gear throughout the game. I've seen level 40's rocking level 18 armor, and to no real penalty. Since there's no reason for combat classes to buy gear, there's no reason to craft combat gear. Furthermore, combat classes can get gear cheaper/free, and easier simply by doing quests and dungeons. Furthermore, due to Issue#2, people are leveling so fast and efficiently that there's no reason to EVER buy gear! In fact, the irony of crafting +gathering and +crafting gear is that the only people who buy it is fellow crafters and gatherers. Essentially, you're creating gear for crafting because it's mandatory, but crafting has no purpose other than to build more crafting gear...and, of course, materia melding. I basically spent all my gil buying crystals and ingredients to level a craft which is now essentially worthless. Also, since no one needs to buy anything... there is no economy. Gil is essentially used to skilling up a craft, or repairing your end game gear. That's it. And once you lose it, it's 10x harder to make it back, because there is ample supply, and meager demand. This is probably related to the fact that..."
Which is sad, because I think the crafting mechanics in this game are great. Did you ever play Vanguard?
I always found people saying this to be weird. Not that I am saying that they are wrong in their experiences, but I'm not level 50 in any of my crafts yet (I have 8 of them), and yet I sell plenty of items each day and make plenty of money from it. Did they not manage to sell anything at all unil they were 50, or did they just not bother trying figuring to only sell lvl 50 items? I guess it's all about playing the market, you just have to figure it out what people want and sell them that. There's no rule that just because you're 50 you only have to sell lvl 50 items.
Originally posted by Touc Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by ToucI have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.
Well, I played SWG primarily as a crafter for over 8 years.I think people claiming they love crafting then quickly dismiss it because some armor and weapons have better stats than crafted ones. Then they complain that you're only crafting for other crafters. Then they go off about how great SWG crafting was.I'm the first to say SWG was the best crafting in an mmo, but to ignore how it really worked so you can bash crafting in FFXIV is not too sharp.As a crafter in SWG, the majority of what I made was for non combat classes. In fact, most crafting professions needed items made by other crafters. That is a direct similarity to FFXIV crafting.In SWG, dropped weapons and armor destroyed the stats on the best crafted armor and weapons, period. I had an exceptional reinforced combat staff that had far superior stats to any crafted polearm in the game. Slapped an ant decay kit on it and I was done with weaponsmiths, right? Wrong. I actually had a room in my house dedicated to poelarms. Most of them crafted. A lot of them I used regularly. I liked to fact they were made by another player. I liked the fact that there were so many weapon models. In fact, a lot of people collected weapons and armor because of the look or even a certain stat they liked that may not have been better than a rare drop. Who knows everyone's intentions. But it is clear that weaponsmiths werent bankrupt because of higher statted drops and adks. People cried about it a lot, but the good crafters were fine.So now Im looking at FFXIV crafting and I see great looking weapon and armor models that are not obtained through drops. The ability to dye them and meld unique stats. I see interdependency across all crafting and gathering classes. I see crafters making items for crafters (oh my gawd!) which is a good thing. No actually, its a great thing.I see weapons and armor being crafted for both combat and no combat classes, food that benefits both combat and non combat classes, crafted necklaces and rings which are visible on your character (customization+ there). Furniture and decor coming in a couple months with the housing.And dont forget yoshida's plan to make crafting an integral part of the pvp system. So if you want to turn your microscope to some raid gear stats and write off the entire crafting system, go ahead. But don't be surprised by people like myself who write replies like this. Anyone who loves crafting in mmos knows that a good crafting system is so much more than +2 vitality more than the best raid loot. This game has a fantastic crafting structure. Best since SWG in my humble opinion. I hope that people who love crafting read this and are not discouraged by people who cannot see the forest through the trees.I meant to say SWG-PreCU when crafters crafted for everyone and could make the best stuff in the game. i always use SWG crafting as a benchmark because it was the best.
Crafters making items for crafters is pretty much all we do right now. The market is about to die on my server. All we have to hope for is the next patch in 2 months. If the first 3 months of release are supposed to be a grinding period in the game while we wait for the real content for crafters, then I could understand our current state. I really feel like the big 2.1 patch is going to make or break the economy in this game and may render crafting useless.
What server are you on? Which market are you talking about about to die? I play on adamantoise and demand is far outpacing supply right now. Food and potions are in high demand for the influx of raiders. Level 40+ gear is off the market almost as fast as its put up. Spirit grind I presume. The meld spam from people looking for melders is second to gold seller spam haha. Its quite bustling. I'm selling hq resources and components primarily and every morning I log in, usually 12-15 out of 20 items have been sold off my retainer overnight.
Most people "dislike" it, because the thought it would be "WoW" (very easy to pick up and master), but once they found out that not everything is as spoon-fed to you as in other western themepark MMO's (compared to FFXI, this one spoon-feeds alot, but still not enough for some people who struggle when given an obstacle), they give up and flee the ship with pitchforks held high.
As an "ancient" in the MMO-scene, having played pretty much all of them, i had my doubts whether i'd like the "next iteration of FF-online" or whether it'd be another "oh well"-sensation, having played and loved the first, i thought "been there done that". I was amazed how familiar yet unfamiliar it all felt, i got the chills when i first jumped in (after the troublesome few days trying to get in), have been barely able to logout ever since.
Yes it's themepark (which i'm not too fond of these olden days), but in alot of ways different than most western audiences are used to in terms of mechanics and how everyday 'things' are handled / done and i love it.
Yes it has quest-hubs and your typical quests, i can live with these or if i choose not to, i can grind fates
The dungeons become actually hard / nigh impossible if you have a bad pug, since party combat is mostly about aggro management, unlike all the other games about. In this game, your average "OVER 9000!!" dimwit DPS will not last (they get kicked outta groups fast or the healer and/or tank leaves). Here each and every class/player needs to know and manage their aggro. Once again GROUPS ARE NEEDED and FORCED for content!! This is the part i love MOST about FFXIV it brought back the MM back to MMORPG
Crafting and gathering doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, but mastering them might take a few minutes here and there and some dedication/time, instead of just getting ye-amount of mats and hitting the button for end-product.
To me, the game just has that Final Fantasy "magic" i've not experienced in other games, single, multi or MMO.
It's a "love or hate" game, there is no "it's okay"
As I got my LTW to 50, I had a sense of relief. "Alright, I'm done with THAT part of the game..." I thought to myself. I figured with my newfound craft, I'd be able to start making money almost immediately in the game. There is just one small problem; there is no demand for hardly anything. Gear, which should be utilized to a degree by all classes, isn't necessary. Because of the incredible ease of the game, it hasn't been uncommon to see people wearing severely outdated gear throughout the game. I've seen level 40's rocking level 18 armor, and to no real penalty. Since there's no reason for combat classes to buy gear, there's no reason to craft combat gear. Furthermore, combat classes can get gear cheaper/free, and easier simply by doing quests and dungeons. Furthermore, due to Issue#2, people are leveling so fast and efficiently that there's no reason to EVER buy gear! In fact, the irony of crafting +gathering and +crafting gear is that the only people who buy it is fellow crafters and gatherers. Essentially, you're creating gear for crafting because it's mandatory, but crafting has no purpose other than to build more crafting gear...and, of course, materia melding. I basically spent all my gil buying crystals and ingredients to level a craft which is now essentially worthless. Also, since no one needs to buy anything... there is no economy. Gil is essentially used to skilling up a craft, or repairing your end game gear. That's it. And once you lose it, it's 10x harder to make it back, because there is ample supply, and meager demand. This is probably related to the fact that..."
Which is sad, because I think the crafting mechanics in this game are great. Did you ever play Vanguard?
I read this post by Cymdai, and he seemed to be a player who knew what he was talking about when he posted his concerns. Also, he wasn't alone in this, other people in the thread seemed to share the same concern so I suspect there is an issue here even if some of the posters in this thread haven't run into it.
At the end of the day, no matter how interesting the crafting system may be, if there is no demand for the goods you are making for the combat crowd, you haven't got a functioning economy.
One of the reason's why EVE has one of the best economic systems in any game is the fact the PVP combat results in tons of destroyed ships, hence creating more demand for new ones. PVE games have sometimes (in the distant past) put in gear degradation to create a similar situation and in one case, DAOC, has set up a situation where even if drops are good, a player always needs crafted pieces to round out their templates properly.
[mod edit] there is a definitely a demand for goods both for battle and crafting/gathering. How do i know this? because I have made 1 million gil in crafting and growing [mod edit]
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Comments
Actually you're right about that and also because many many people love to craft...just for the sake of crafting. I know a lot of combat only people won't understand that but when housing and other non-combat stuff opens up (as well as PVP) crafters will VERY busy.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Why try to categorize everyone who doesn't like this game or any game into one or very few groups?
There are probably a myriad of reasons why different people didn't like a game you like just like there are many reasons others do like it.
Just be happy you and others do like the game and hopefully enough continue to like the game and make it profitable.
The first step in discriminating is labeling and we can already see some of that beginning in this thread.
It's just people insecure or otherwise closed-minded in their own opinions trying to marginalize those who don't share them.
There's this really strange emotional attachment many develop toward "their game", and it drives them to feel they have to "defend" it against any and all criticism. A favorite tactic is to - in some typically intellectually dishonest manner - squeeze them into a categorical box that they can then dismiss, rather than face the "ugly reality" that "their game" may not be the beacon of perfection they want to believe it is, and that not everyone is going to share their opinions of it.
The flip-side to that is when they somehow feel "betrayed" by said game; they become its strongest and most vocal detractors.
Don't try to understand them. Just pity them.
There's this really strange emotional attachment many develop toward "their game", and it drives them to feel they have to "defend" it against any and all criticism. A favorite tactic is to - in some typically intellectually dishonest manner - squeeze them into a categorical box that they can then dismiss, rather than face the "ugly reality" that "their game" may not be the beacon of perfection they want to believe it is, and that not everyone is going to share their opinions of it.
The flip-side to that is when they somehow feel "betrayed" by said game; they become its strongest and most vocal detractors.
Don't try to understand them. Just pity them.
Wow is that how you interpreted my original post? I sincerely hope not.
Agreed, OP. I share your exact sentiments with the crafting in the game. I am neutral towards the combat and questing and open to the distaste people have with them. I find them adequate to the game, at best. I empathize with those who find FATEs simplistic because I share the same opinion. I don't like everything in the game, but I do know I like the crafting.
Crafting takes the forefront for me in the game. Ergo, that aspect shapes up the game to have a bigger potential for a positive community. Every thing else in the game just adds to it to form a complete package bumping it up from the average "this year's hyped MMO" to something more. It is definitely not for everyone, but it is exactly what is making the game stand out for me.
I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....
The hard mode raids felt very simple and were hinged upon the correct tank position more than any other aspect. I can't say they were fun, because they were not challenging. Anybody who says the combat is more methodical than other MMOs is completely incorrect; it's pretty much the same as WoW. I find the cross-class ability system to be used as an extension of my job and it's expected of me to have those abilities for raidtime. The cross-class system is terrible because I am forced to choose from 2 classes; this doesn't make me very unique at all from the next player with the same job as me. Also, to cap out mythology tomestones each week I have to run the one same dungeon over and over which is boring.
Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.
When you say very easy to craft, what itemlevel of crafts are you attempting at what level?
About relic weapon +1: I agree, crafted fully melded hq versions are not on par due to the primary "damage" stat being so important and inferior on hq version. They need to fix that, really.
About comparing to equips bought with philosophy tomestones; sure the non-melded HQ versions are comparable to those bought with philosophy tomestones; but properly melded ones are superior.
Properly pentamelded HQ versions are comparable to AF+1 gear (need tome of mythology for that), but AF+1 is job specific and there are classes for where it is far from clear that the job is better than being a class due to lost cross-class abilities; Lancer vs Dragoon is a such case.
Allagan gear (bahamut coil i90 drops) is though comparable to properly pentamelded HQ versions.
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Perhaps it is too easy currently to get AF+1 and Bahamut Coil gear, while it is too hard to get properly pentamelded HQ i70 crafted gear; if so I hope Yoichi fixes it like he fixed the repair issues.
I was doing 1 star lvl 50 Leatherworking with full HQ gear. Half of my gear didn't even have materia in it because it wasn't needed to get HQ on my crafts.
Melding the crafted DoW gear does make a superior item, but it's probably very small. I never melded any DoW gear, but if it's anything like melding the Crafting gear then we can probably only get a few points extra into each stat, before hitting cap.
Jobs are definitely far superior than classes, and we are not unique in any way.
About dragoon vs lancer:
As a dragoon you get several "instant cast" abilities, but you lose gladiator off-tank cross-class abilities, archer damage buff and accuracy/dex buff as well ass long-cooldown support abilities.
About melding Disciple of War gear compared to melding Crafting gear: yes the caps matter. For instance on "Darksteel Chain Hof", which has strength, vitality, accuracy and determination; it is unlikely that you will be able to meld much into those stats; but you got critical hit and skill speed "open". (Parry if you are going offtank route)
Well, I played SWG primarily as a crafter for over 8 years.
I think people claiming they love crafting then quickly dismiss it because some armor and weapons have better stats than crafted ones. Then they complain that you're only crafting for other crafters. Then they go off about how great SWG crafting was.
I'm the first to say SWG was the best crafting in an mmo, but to ignore how it really worked so you can bash crafting in FFXIV is not too sharp.
As a crafter in SWG, the majority of what I made was for non combat classes. In fact, most crafting professions needed items made by other crafters. That is a direct similarity to FFXIV crafting.
In SWG, dropped weapons and armor destroyed the stats on the best crafted armor and weapons, period. I had an exceptional reinforced combat staff that had far superior stats to any crafted polearm in the game. Slapped an ant decay kit on it and I was done with weaponsmiths, right? Wrong. I actually had a room in my house dedicated to poelarms. Most of them crafted. A lot of them I used regularly. I liked to fact they were made by another player. I liked the fact that there were so many weapon models. In fact, a lot of people collected weapons and armor because of the look or even a certain stat they liked that may not have been better than a rare drop. Who knows everyone's intentions. But it is clear that weaponsmiths werent bankrupt because of higher statted drops and adks. People cried about it a lot, but the good crafters were fine.
So now Im looking at FFXIV crafting and I see great looking weapon and armor models that are not obtained through drops. The ability to dye them and meld unique stats. I see interdependency across all crafting and gathering classes. I see crafters making items for crafters (oh my gawd!) which is a good thing. No actually, its a great thing.
I see weapons and armor being crafted for both combat and no combat classes, food that benefits both combat and non combat classes, crafted necklaces and rings which are visible on your character (customization+ there). Furniture and decor coming in a couple months with the housing.
And dont forget yoshida's plan to make crafting an integral part of the pvp system.
So if you want to turn your microscope to some raid gear stats and write off the entire crafting system, go ahead. But don't be surprised by people like myself who write replies like this.
Anyone who loves crafting in mmos knows that a good crafting system is so much more than +2 vitality more than the best raid loot. This game has a fantastic crafting structure. Best since SWG in my humble opinion. I hope that people who love crafting read this and are not discouraged by people who cannot see the forest through the trees.
I meant to say SWG-PreCU when crafters crafted for everyone and could make the best stuff in the game. i always use SWG crafting as a benchmark because it was the best.
Crafters making items for crafters is pretty much all we do right now. The market is about to die on my server. All we have to hope for is the next patch in 2 months. If the first 3 months of release are supposed to be a grinding period in the game while we wait for the real content for crafters, then I could understand our current state. I really feel like the big 2.1 patch is going to make or break the economy in this game and may render crafting useless.
I always found people saying this to be weird. Not that I am saying that they are wrong in their experiences, but I'm not level 50 in any of my crafts yet (I have 8 of them), and yet I sell plenty of items each day and make plenty of money from it. Did they not manage to sell anything at all unil they were 50, or did they just not bother trying figuring to only sell lvl 50 items? I guess it's all about playing the market, you just have to figure it out what people want and sell them that. There's no rule that just because you're 50 you only have to sell lvl 50 items.
I meant to say SWG-PreCU when crafters crafted for everyone and could make the best stuff in the game. i always use SWG crafting as a benchmark because it was the best.
Crafters making items for crafters is pretty much all we do right now. The market is about to die on my server. All we have to hope for is the next patch in 2 months. If the first 3 months of release are supposed to be a grinding period in the game while we wait for the real content for crafters, then I could understand our current state. I really feel like the big 2.1 patch is going to make or break the economy in this game and may render crafting useless.
What server are you on? Which market are you talking about about to die? I play on adamantoise and demand is far outpacing supply right now. Food and potions are in high demand for the influx of raiders. Level 40+ gear is off the market almost as fast as its put up. Spirit grind I presume. The meld spam from people looking for melders is second to gold seller spam haha. Its quite bustling. I'm selling hq resources and components primarily and every morning I log in, usually 12-15 out of 20 items have been sold off my retainer overnight.
Most people "dislike" it, because the thought it would be "WoW" (very easy to pick up and master), but once they found out that not everything is as spoon-fed to you as in other western themepark MMO's (compared to FFXI, this one spoon-feeds alot, but still not enough for some people who struggle when given an obstacle), they give up and flee the ship with pitchforks held high.
As an "ancient" in the MMO-scene, having played pretty much all of them, i had my doubts whether i'd like the "next iteration of FF-online" or whether it'd be another "oh well"-sensation, having played and loved the first, i thought "been there done that". I was amazed how familiar yet unfamiliar it all felt, i got the chills when i first jumped in (after the troublesome few days trying to get in), have been barely able to logout ever since.
Yes it's themepark (which i'm not too fond of these olden days), but in alot of ways different than most western audiences are used to in terms of mechanics and how everyday 'things' are handled / done and i love it.
Yes it has quest-hubs and your typical quests, i can live with these or if i choose not to, i can grind fates
The dungeons become actually hard / nigh impossible if you have a bad pug, since party combat is mostly about aggro management, unlike all the other games about. In this game, your average "OVER 9000!!" dimwit DPS will not last (they get kicked outta groups fast or the healer and/or tank leaves). Here each and every class/player needs to know and manage their aggro. Once again GROUPS ARE NEEDED and FORCED for content!! This is the part i love MOST about FFXIV it brought back the MM back to MMORPG
Crafting and gathering doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, but mastering them might take a few minutes here and there and some dedication/time, instead of just getting ye-amount of mats and hitting the button for end-product.
To me, the game just has that Final Fantasy "magic" i've not experienced in other games, single, multi or MMO.
It's a "love or hate" game, there is no "it's okay"
[mod edit] there is a definitely a demand for goods both for battle and crafting/gathering. How do i know this? because I have made 1 million gil in crafting and growing [mod edit]
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)