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[Dev Journal] Shroud of the Avatar: Crowdsourcing the World
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
The Shroud of the Avatar team is committed in a unique way to making sure that its community is not only heard, but involved in the game's creative process. In an exclusive developer diary here at MMORPG.com, SoA's Starr Long talks about how crowdsourcing will work. Read on and then leave your impressions in the comments.
There are six programs that illustrate our commitment to direct player contribution. Five of them are made possible by the Unity platform and Unity Asset Store, which I cannot say enough good things about. The analogy Richard Garriott likes to give is to the movie business. When making a movie you can purchase or rent a large amount of the content you need. This includes the tools (cameras and lights) as well as the props (stop signs, benches, plants, etc.). Unity has really heralded in a new age of game development that brings us closer to making games more like movies where we can finally purchase much of what we need without having to make it all from scratch.
Read more of Starr Long's Shroud of the Avatar: Crowdsourcing.
Comments
You forgot to talk about how you're extorting money out of low / mid tier backers by threatening to effectively lock them out of key content if they don't pony up more cash.
Or how about the fact that crowdsourcing allows such things, since as it's legally considered a 'donation' you don't have to follow various consumer protection laws as closely, if at all? Such as oh, I don't know, issuing refunds to customers who feel their 'backing' was obtained under false pretenses?
Yup, I and many others are never trusting Richard Garriott again. This was a total scam in my opinion. Most likely he's just trying to fund another spaceflight to the moon (even though he can easily afford it with his own money... He's just a cheap con-artist as far as I'm concerned).
Smile
You know, I have a lot of questions about Shroud of the Avatar, but Swedish Chef, your ax grinding is pretty dang dull. High dudgeon of very narrow import. Patronage via Kickstarter is not investment. Get over it.
My question would be whether the same management team that screwed up Tabula Rasa for so long has learned their lessons?
The crowdsourcing art thing seems like a cool thing and appears on its face to be pretty fair. How the game will manage some sort of consistant art style with these really disparate sources is what I'd like to find out.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Curt Schilling, far more wealthy than Garriott, tried that with the Amalur MMO. How'd that work out?
I don't think you understand the biz nearly as well as you might think....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Swedish_Chef
Yup, I and many others are never trusting Richard Garriott again. This was a total scam in my opinion. Most likely he's just trying to fund another spaceflight to the moon (even though he can easily afford it with his own money... He's just a cheap con-artist as far as I'm concerned).
Curt Schilling, far more wealthy than Garriott, tried that with the Amalur MMO. How'd that work out?
I don't think you understand the biz nearly as well as you might think....
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This ...
Arglebargle - With regards to Tabula Rasa question (taking you seriously on your question). If you hit the internet and do some serious research, you'll learn that Richard Garriott was opposed to releasing the game when they did. Additionally that the company he was working for forced aspects of the game he did not want or felt where ready to be added. It was a situation of he was working for someone else and he was not the boss. I often get told to do things at work that make me want to walk out on my job, but I have bills to pay and family to feed so I grit my teeth and do it. It's not hard to learn that there was a lot of this sort of thing going on for Lord British for this game. Same thing with Ultima 9.
As to the Crowd sourcing - I am a dev+ level backer for the game. I have zero ability to contribute to the game itself (I am not skilled in graphics, art, or programming) and cant do much beyond answering questions and providing feedback in the forums. I answer a lot of questions for people as I am running a news/information web site and I do my best to keep up with all the news and be knowledgeable to help people.. something I CAN do. What I can say is that the crowd sourcing is on the level. Stuff is being given to the Dev+ backers that would cost a lot of money to go purchase.. and they can use it how they want. I don't want to say "this" and "that, as i don't want to accidently give out info I shouldn't and get into trouble. On the reverse side of that I am seeing people providing stuff to the company on a continual basis and they are being paid very fairly for it. Its all on the level for those who care to really check into it and become educated.
tamorand I don;t believe Richard Garriott is nearly as rich as you belive. I could be wrong but ive been following him for many years waiting for his next game so have a lot of "puzzle pieces" ive tossed together, and i think there is a lot of hype on how much money he has. I'm not saying hes not rich, he is.. but its highly over exaggerated IMO. As far as a another trip into space.. He just turned 52 and he has a new baby.. You really think anything like that is on his agenda? Be fair to the man and just consider the opposite.. just CONSIDER it fairly. Hes 52, not overly long married with a new baby. He has as you said, enough money to retire.. so why would he work hard on making a MMO for money when he doesn't need it based on what you said? Simple in my opinion.. he Can't go on trips to the moon, or to the Titanic, or to Antarctica anymore. He has to worry about maintain his families lifestyle and also not take on risky adventures.. But the man like everyone of us has to have a hobby! He ENJOYS making games.. so hes doing it for fun, not money.
As far as taking money from people for the game, again.. go do some research and you'll find he has invested millions into getting the company off the ground out of his own pocket before doing the kickstarter. At some point you have to draw a line and sell the commodity hes making as if he just keeps funding it, funding it, and funding it.. hes going to go broke!
Ok, don't like him? fair enough. Consider Starr Long. He had a perfectly stable (as far as I know) job with Disney. Hes been rated as one of the top 20 game executive producers in the world (ive seen this stated on various game sites but can't state how accurate it is). Why would he quit his job at DISNEY and go to Portalaium unless the project was on the up and up and he believed it is going somewhere special and great? I am guessing he can get a job with just about any game company he wants!
Ok, lets look beyond the game makers.. Tracy Hickman is one of the lead story developers. Hes writing a novel for the game. If your not aware of who Tracy Hickman is, hit him up on Wiki. Hes a story writing legend!
Anyway, i just try to help people with question about the game. I'm not one to debate or push my opinions on other people, so this will be my only visit on this article. I hope ive been somewhat helpful to any of the audience that might want to consider some positive thoughts.
You can also hit my website for more information on the game. Please note i do not get paid for doing it, i don't make a penny.. in fact i pay for everything (domain hosting, etc) out of my own pocket. Im just a fan trying to help the game grow. That said its at thecaverns.net
If you found any of this useful at all or if you find the site i run information about the game, and you do decide to sign up for the game, please do me the only favor I ever ask people for in return and CONSIDER using me as your referral. ID #147.
Regardless what you do.. please go learn about things and THEN make informed onions based on accurate information. If you still don't like the ideas and concepts, thats cool! Just make those judgments based on good information and not uninformed conclusions.. every human being deserves that, don't they?
Do not use Amalur as an example and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Just from your comment it's clear you're the one confused about what a nice amount of money and good management of a company can create. You know why the Amalur MMO never saw the light of day? Because of piss poor mismanagement.
Smile
I really like the crowdsourcing idea, and i'm a fan of UO and Richard Garriot. That being said, I am approaching this game with caution. The idea with a single server and limited land mass for housing made me wonder. Realizing they are selling land plots for real cash on top of that is not cool. Not sure exactly why I care about that, but I do. It means something to me. One of my goals in this game would be without question to obtain a house. The best one I can get. I have no intention of spending lots of real life money to obtain one either.
Some may retort suggesting that I become a backer to potentially save money. While this is an idea i'm sure many have followed - I can't bring myself to 'back' something that is years away. Maybe when we can see something with some actual gameplay in the game world. Maybe then I can actually get behind this project. I think it will be good, and I believe in the people making the game. But I wouldn't invest in Jesus without a ladder to heaven.
My problem is that they are charging a ridiculous amount for the housing plots. My problem is that they are charging for it at all. It shouldn't be something that people should be able to just buy. Now when it is is so essential to crafters and therefore the ingame economy.
Also, not to hate on Tracy Hickman, but he really hasn't had anything impressive or substantial since the 90s... Hopefully he is able to produce great pieces of lore and written work for the Shroud of the Avatar but I can't honestly say I've been impressed with anything he's done in a very long time.
Smile
I was fed up when I saw how much a housing plot was £150 for one housing plot. When a house cost me £50.
I refuse to put anymore money into Shroud of the Avatar.
IMO, Richard Garriott is a sell out for money, and this whole project to me seems like its only about money... What ever happened to the players joining the world and having a chance to actually be on a par level with everyone else... This is not the case with his New Game, because its all bout MONEY this time around and every game since he Sold out UO.
UO was was made by a man who loved his hobby, but upon seeing $$$ in front of his eyes he has changed drastically, and his games he has made ever since show it and prove it. Now with Shroud, it seems even worse charging so much for pixels in a game which is meant to be fun. He is just taking the game play out of the hobby and replacing it with draining money out of blind people.
Don't get me wrong, i will give the game a look at once its released which i dont think it will be for a while, but i will not pay a penny before hand, and a look is pretty much all i will give it to be honest because todays day and age, i have been around since Beta of UO and played many many games since then, and all dev teams are pretty much all the same, all about money and shit games, no one has ever stuck to their words anymore with updates and what will be implemented.
[URL="https://forums.darkfallonline.com/image.php?u=45765&type=sigpic&dateline=1276129943[/URL]
"Vox Populi, Vox Deorum"
Those are harsh words.
Scam? Con-artist? Never trusting again? What has he done to you? What the HECK are you talking about?
Richard Garriott has been nothing but genuine, open, upfront, sincere about his intentions with Shroud of the Avatar. He has been working hard to make this a COMMUNITY effort. I can assure you that you won't find many game devs that will reach out to their fans as much as this.
Also, you sir need to stop being jealous he's rich and went to space.
What has he done? I'll tell you. He took money from myself and many others to help him fund his game. He then turned around and stated that housing plots would be limited, and purchasable with real cash (expected the former, did NOT expect the latter) long before actual release. Now, anyone with a brain will realize that the more affluent backers out there are the ones who will be snatching up all the land early on (I'm surprised there's any left by now) and either hoarding it, or selling it at inflated prices. Furthermore I can guarantee they're not going to be selling it for in-game currency.
This has the effect of essentially 'locking out' low to mid tier backers from housing, a large part of the game, unless they either pony up more cash for Richard's coffers right now (on top of their original backing), or take a chance and hope they can find a plot for in-game currency or a reasonable amount of RL cash. Given how much land sold for in UO, I don't see either of those as being feasible scenarios.
Had I known I would be denied access to what I see as a part of the core content of the game (without paying more $$ up front) I'd have never given him my money in the first place. And no, don't even TRY to claim that locking people out of content isn't / wasn't his intention. He ran UO long enough to see exactly what happens to the housing market of a virtual economy when RL cash is brought into play. Hell, I'd even say he was / is counting on it to make him some more cash.
Oh, and he is of course denying people such as myself who feel their money was obtained under false pretenses any type of refund or compensation.
It's the equivalent of preordering a game, then having the developer / publisher of said game later inform you that you only paid for HALF the content, and you'll have to hand over more cash to get the rest of it. It's a fraudulent, unethical, and (if said preorder is through a retailer or company direct sales) illegal practice which, since in this case was done through Kickstarter, leaves people with no legal recourse whatsoever.
Richard Garriott is a swindler, and since any type of legal recourse (which honestly wouldn't be worth the trouble for the money anyway) is impossible, the next best thing is to warn people away from doing business with the man.
You are severely misinformed. As far as I know, anybody has ability to get a house without paying citizen-level pledge or backing early.
If you so choose to purchase a house now, you would be guaranteed a lot deed but would have to still pay taxes on it. Alternatively, if you pledge citizen-level, you are getting a guaranteed lot that is tax-exempt.
Nowhere did I see anyone being prevented from getting a house when game actually launches. Yes, they are limited but I am sure they will still be up for grabs (since not everyone will be paying their taxes). No one will be completely shut out from getting a house if they really want to.
Second- a house is more than anything a luxury, a convenience, something to hang in and show to your friends. You will point at the crafting benefit it offers some, but I argue that in the greater scheme of things this is a miniscule advantage that barely makes a difference in the economy or character progression.
Third- If you can't afford a house (like me) then I'm sure you can still enjoy the game in it's entirety. I personally have little desire for one; What I'm concerned about how the game plays and how entertained I will be. That is what's important and will be the true judge of the game.
Fourth- Don't you think early backers need to be rewarded and thanked for their devotion to the game? If this is one way of showing some gratitude for those that believed in the game, then I'm all for it!!
So please, see if you like the game when it comes out. It is alot better to be happy with what you have then to point to others who are able to get houses and be bitter about things. Believe me, you will enjoy life more this way.
And RG is absolutely not a swindler, that is absolutely a baseless claim. I do hope they refund you though.
A house goes from "luxury" to P2W when it offers huge advantages for crafters thereby affecting the ingame economy.
Smile
Ahh...let me just end this entire rant.
Housing was known to be rare and require $$$ as a main source of crowd funding before and during the kickstarter. This fact was never hidden.
If not having a house/plot at the start of the game is the main turnoff for you, then don't pledge.
If the rest of the content and options (excluding having a house/plot) is enough for you to enjoy the game, then pledge.
You will be able to acquire a house and plot in game. It may be rare at first and costly, but the option will be there. Also, as the game develops (Episodes 1-5) , more and more land will open up for purchase.
Ok, housing has now been cleared up. Complaints about housing can now end. Thank you.
In regards to RG being acting in an unethical manner.
(1) Portalarium obviously cost money to establish. I didn't pay for that. Did any of you? NO. RG created it.
(2) 2.5 mil is obviously not enough to fund this entire project. Where is the other funds coming from? Ummm....Portalarium and RG.
(3) 2.5 Mil will not get you into space
No other game creator has been this passionate about his vision. Chris Roberts and Fargo have impressed me (backed WL 2 and SC).
But RG's interaction with the community, visiting fan sites, live interviews, and showing up to google hangouts at backers' requests has been 2nd to none.
I do not see, in anyway, that he is exploiting the community or backers.
Question of RG's Integrity has been answered. Move on. Thank you.
In other Words. This game will be another Entropia Universe. Just in a High Fantasy jacket.
A cash grab. Plain and simple! With People who have the deepest wallets prevail.
Thanks but no thanks.
Dude, seriously! You are so wrong on this one. It's not even funny!
This is Richard "High Horse" Garriott desperately trying to Clear his name and put the blame at NCSoft..... and you and so many others falling for this and eating it like sweet candy truth!
I am getting seriously tired of repeating the entire story again and again, as I was a devoted fan of Tabula Rasa back then, following the entire Development, part of the entire closed beta and followed through launch and Beyond until shut Down.
During that time I have seen Richard "High Horse" Garriott showing his "true" colors.
I am "totally" done With him and won't touch anything anymore, where he's involved in With a ten foot pole!
Just to give you a little clue. He was "totally" in charge of Tabula Rasa Development. Had total free reign and a huge Budget from NCSoft.
NCSoft had so much fate in him at that time, that he even managed to get his Brother appointed as CEO of the NCSoft NA studio, where Tabula Rasa was being developed.
But like I said.... I can Write a huge wall of text again about what happened during that time. But I seriously get tired of repeating that wall of text yet again. Especially since you blind fans don't want to hear the truth anyway.
I wish you all good Luck on this one.
Well said sir.
I salute you
Dude, Tabula Rasa is one game. Who is a fault for Tabula Rasa not doing well? Who cares, its one game. No game developer gets it right 100% of the time.
You were obviously not there at that time and thus not know what happened. Otherwise you would sing a different tune.
Funny someone here mentioned Portalarium. His newly founded studio.
Just have a look a their Product list.
I rest my case.
Wow....
Don't like him, quit commenting here, and go elsewhere to complain about others success.
Start your own kick start or something and do better.
Seriously thinking about dropping a large chunk of cash for a house plot now just to be spiteful.
And I can' t really afford it.
If that money is keeping the Devs eating and happy to make a great game... so be it!
Welcome to capitalism!