There's another problem to personal stories in MMORPGs. In single player games you are the hero, the one and only, everyone else is just an antagonist, or innocent bystander. It's all about you and it is unique. In MMORPGs it's not possible. It's not you recovering the Amulet of Potatoe Growth for farmer Joe, it's everyone and his brother/sister. Playing Rift makes clear what I mean. You hear "Oh! An Ascended! They are real!" every few steps and start to think "Boy, there are hundreds of Ascended around and you awe all of them?!". It's absolutely unrealistic and nothing special anymore. Anarchy Online used to bypass that problem with mission terminals. Someone issued a problem and you went to your personal or team instance. It was only your team killing the offender, or retrieving the item, not hundreds of people slaughtering the hares that nibble Joe's crops away.
Personal stories also need a certain pace IMHO. They should give you a certain feeling of urgency, since you are the one to prevent the big catastrophe (at least in RPGs, GTA never gave me that feeling) . In MMORPGs this means leading people to rush (together with hundreds of others, who personally prevent the bad stuff, not as a team but 100 times the same).
Personal stories shouldn't be in MMO's.. They are a single player mechanic.. How can you justify a MMORPG having thousands of "Billy Bob" characters in a game at the same time? I wish the stories were removed, and spend more time and resources on actual game content..
The individual story does seem interesting during the first few days. However, since this story is made to last through months of leveling a character, it begins to feel "dragged out" very quickly.
Regardless, I'm not a fan of personal story. One of the best loads of content in MMOs is other people. When I know that each and every person is "the chosen one", it jut feels artificial and cheesy. I'd rather quests and progression be given on a broader scale, e.g., every person working to achieve the same goal - if you participate in that goal, you get rewarded.
I dislike "personal stories" in MMORPGs. They make you out to be special little snowflakes.......alongside everyone else who is playing. So you are the hero who saves the world but it doesn't fit when everyone else does too. You get a unique story that repeats for everyone.
You become 1 in a million.....or 2 million, or 3 million or how ever many people play.
I dislike "personal stories" in MMORPGs. They make you out to be special little snowflakes.......alongside everyone else who is playing. So you are the hero who saves the world but it doesn't fit when everyone else does too. You get a unique story that repeats for everyone.
You become 1 in a million.....or 2 million, or 3 million or how ever many people play.
The only game that has done personal story right, for me, has been The Secret World. I hate personal stories for the same reason that you do, everyones that special little snowflake, but in The Secret World they even referenced the other players during your personal story. There's one I remember where you go back in time to retrieve an object, but there's multiples of this object that all look the same with only one being the right one. When you return and give the item to the NPC, he looks at it and throws it over the edge of the building, saying, "Oh well, one of you will luck out sooner or later.". I thought that was a really cool addition.
Originally posted by Rydeson Personal stories shouldn't be in MMO's.. They are a single player mechanic.. How can you justify a MMORPG having thousands of "Billy Bob" characters in a game at the same time? I wish the stories were removed, and spend more time and resources on actual game content..
The same way you "justify" millions of Corvo, or Sam Fishers, by doing it in an instance so it gives the illusion of you being unique.
If a dev wants me to play his/her MMORPG, put some story content into the game. I have many other choices of entertainment.
The same way you "justify" millions of Corvo, or Sam Fishers, by doing it in an instance so it gives the illusion of you being unique.
If a dev wants me to play his/her MMORPG, put some story content into the game. I have many other choices of entertainment.
The main problem are the different mechanics of immersion. Those are single player games. It works since you are the only one playing. It would break (at least for me) if there were hundreds of DeWitts right before your eyes (even though this game has a multi-dimensional theme). It's not about knowing there are other player playing the same story as you, it's about seeing them knowing you just kill the same 10 rabbits as they have done and it has no effect. The mechanics of immersion, the pace and interaction levels are completely different. In a single-player-game your actions have an effect, you see it. In MMORPGs you see a cutscene and then see the next player taking off for the same event, so no effect at all.
The same way you "justify" millions of Corvo, or Sam Fishers, by doing it in an instance so it gives the illusion of you being unique.
If a dev wants me to play his/her MMORPG, put some story content into the game. I have many other choices of entertainment.
The main problem are the different mechanics of immersion. Those are single player games. It works since you are the only one playing. It would break (at least for me) if there were hundreds of DeWitts right before your eyes (even though this game has a multi-dimensional theme). It's not about knowing there are other player playing the same story as you, it's about seeing them knowing you just kill the same 10 rabbits as they have done and it has no effect. The mechanics of immersion, the pace and interaction levels are completely different. In a single-player-game your actions have an effect, you see it. In MMORPGs you see a cutscene and then see the next player taking off for the same event, so no effect at all.
You won't see other irrelevant players in instances. That is why instances are used in MMOs for story. Phasing will work too.
Originally posted by Teala I think this is one of the things that kills MMO's. MMO's should be more open in this regard. Let players create their own story, fame and fortune.
+10
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
That's true that when there's a personal story written out for you in a game, it really makes your character less special because there's a ton of others with the exact same story.
Just look at SWTOR...For me, the personal story was very enjoyable but felt like a single player game. Personal story got in the way of social interaction. The MMO part should come before the RPG part just like in the name of the genre.
For me, it really doesn't work so well because I'd rather play an active creative role in helping to craft my characters narrative then the passive role (from the creative standpoint) of following the script the Developer has chosen to write for me. If I want the more passive experience of following a script, I can get that from a novel or movie and those tend to be (though there are exceptions) of higher quality writing and more immersive experiences then provided by most game developers.
Just look at SWTOR...For me, the personal story was very enjoyable but felt like a single player game. Personal story got in the way of social interaction. The MMO part should come before the RPG part just like in the name of the genre.
If it feels like a good single player game, i will play it as such.
Just look at SWTOR...For me, the personal story was very enjoyable but felt like a single player game. Personal story got in the way of social interaction. The MMO part should come before the RPG part just like in the name of the genre.
If it feels like a good single player game, i will play it as such.
its called wasted potential.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Soooo...I don't think that the typical notion of personal story as seen in SWTOR and GW2 has ANY place in an MMORPG. I think that the idea that every single player in the MMORPG is the "hero," and not only are they the "hero" but they literally have the same story is ridiculous.
Also, the personal story concept feels like it's always at odds with the actual MMORPG portion of the game. Oh, here is this great big world for you to explore...but whenever you feel like it you can go pursue your epic quest off in this pocket dimension that in no way influences the rest of the world .
See for me, my "personal story" begins when I create my character and ends when I quit the game. My "personal story" in GW2 involved mastering different weapons with my elementalist, finding a great guild, delving into dungeons, fighting other players in WvW, wiping out huge camps of botting players, and...oh yeah there was some kind of scripted nonsense with NPC's talking as well.
I really think that MMORPG dev's need to start looking at the ENTIRE MMORPG EXPERIENCE as the "personal story." I am not playing this game to hear some story...I am playing it to MAKE MY OWN story.
I personally do not like the personal story bits that are becoming common in MMORPGs, like in FFXIV or GW2, or SWTOR to name a few.
I see MMORPGs a social games that should focus on grouping. You can and shuld play a ton of single player RPGs if what you really want is to solo.
To me the personal stories are a bad thing because they are usually all or mostly solo - and that goes against the whole grouping/social thing. MMORPGs should be designed to constantly support and encourage grouping, not to freaking discourage it.
Personal stories also lead to a very scripted and linear approach to the game, which is also bad when another strength of MMORPGs is (or should be) offering options and a more open experience.
Some MMOs have done personal story very well - but I still feel like it's the kind of thing that belongs in a single player game - and what it does is make the MMORPG FEEL like a single player game - just one where there are other players running around doing their own thing.
It's as if many modern MMORPGs have a single player and multiplayer mode all in one, and IMO, that's not what MMORPGs are or should be about. MMORPGs should be all about grouping with very litlte solo - you can solo in tons of other genres and games. The magic of MMORPGs is in the grouping, and it'd be nice to see development in MMORPGs focused on that instead of the single player campaign.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
Just look at SWTOR...For me, the personal story was very enjoyable but felt like a single player game. Personal story got in the way of social interaction. The MMO part should come before the RPG part just like in the name of the genre.
If it feels like a good single player game, i will play it as such.
its called wasted potential.
I can't play potential. I don't care about potential. I play a game when it is fun to me now. It is irrelevant if it can be 10x better (for me), or 10x worse because that is not the game i am dealing with.
Just look at SWTOR...For me, the personal story was very enjoyable but felt like a single player game. Personal story got in the way of social interaction. The MMO part should come before the RPG part just like in the name of the genre.
If it feels like a good single player game, i will play it as such.
its called wasted potential.
I can't play potential. I don't care about potential. I play a game when it is fun to me now. It is irrelevant if it can be 10x better (for me), or 10x worse because that is not the game i am dealing with.
That's all well and good, and I agree that we should enjoy what we have...
A lot of people come to this site to discuss how we feel MMORPGs can be better, or what the problems we perceive with them are. There is no harm in doing this, and it in no way implies that we don't enjoy playing what we have now.
Just look at SWTOR...For me, the personal story was very enjoyable but felt like a single player game. Personal story got in the way of social interaction. The MMO part should come before the RPG part just like in the name of the genre.
If it feels like a good single player game, i will play it as such.
its called wasted potential.
I can't play potential. I don't care about potential. I play a game when it is fun to me now. It is irrelevant if it can be 10x better (for me), or 10x worse because that is not the game i am dealing with.
That's all well and good, and I agree that we should enjoy what we have...
A lot of people come to this site to discuss how we feel MMORPGs can be better, or what the problems we perceive with them are. There is no harm in doing this, and it in no way implies that we don't enjoy playing what we have now.
Sure .. and i am just responding to the "wasted potential" comment to clarify that wasted potential, even if it exists, affect me exactly nil ... a fair point in a discussion about potential.
Just look at SWTOR...For me, the personal story was very enjoyable but felt like a single player game. Personal story got in the way of social interaction. The MMO part should come before the RPG part just like in the name of the genre.
If it feels like a good single player game, i will play it as such.
its called wasted potential.
I can't play potential. I don't care about potential. I play a game when it is fun to me now. It is irrelevant if it can be 10x better (for me), or 10x worse because that is not the game i am dealing with.
Absolutely no need to be ashamed as a player.
Only one who should be ashamed is a developer who tried to make a multi-player game but they could not do it but still call it as such.
Random EA guy about SWTOR " WE can't play potential. WE don't care about potential. We play a game when it is fun to you now. It is irrelevant if it can be 10x better (for you), or 10x worse because that is not the game you are dealing with."
Now this is closer to the truth and does not sound very flattering.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
The key issue here is industry standards, and having something in the game just because players expect it so that another bullet point can be added to the game description. I do not think it is right to have something in the game, or to not have it, for the wrong reasons. Personal story can be a part of mmo's - if it is done well, if it sticks and motivates. It needs to be exceptional to justify including it.
Comments
There's another problem to personal stories in MMORPGs. In single player games you are the hero, the one and only, everyone else is just an antagonist, or innocent bystander. It's all about you and it is unique. In MMORPGs it's not possible. It's not you recovering the Amulet of Potatoe Growth for farmer Joe, it's everyone and his brother/sister. Playing Rift makes clear what I mean. You hear "Oh! An Ascended! They are real!" every few steps and start to think "Boy, there are hundreds of Ascended around and you awe all of them?!". It's absolutely unrealistic and nothing special anymore. Anarchy Online used to bypass that problem with mission terminals. Someone issued a problem and you went to your personal or team instance. It was only your team killing the offender, or retrieving the item, not hundreds of people slaughtering the hares that nibble Joe's crops away.
Personal stories also need a certain pace IMHO. They should give you a certain feeling of urgency, since you are the one to prevent the big catastrophe (at least in RPGs, GTA never gave me that feeling) . In MMORPGs this means leading people to rush (together with hundreds of others, who personally prevent the bad stuff, not as a team but 100 times the same).
But that's only my 2 cents
Of course it has to be.
For me, a game (whether it is an MMO or not) should always tell a good personal story.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Personal story kills it for me.
The individual story does seem interesting during the first few days. However, since this story is made to last through months of leveling a character, it begins to feel "dragged out" very quickly.
Regardless, I'm not a fan of personal story. One of the best loads of content in MMOs is other people. When I know that each and every person is "the chosen one", it jut feels artificial and cheesy. I'd rather quests and progression be given on a broader scale, e.g., every person working to achieve the same goal - if you participate in that goal, you get rewarded.
I dislike "personal stories" in MMORPGs. They make you out to be special little snowflakes.......alongside everyone else who is playing. So you are the hero who saves the world but it doesn't fit when everyone else does too. You get a unique story that repeats for everyone.
You become 1 in a million.....or 2 million, or 3 million or how ever many people play.
The only game that has done personal story right, for me, has been The Secret World. I hate personal stories for the same reason that you do, everyones that special little snowflake, but in The Secret World they even referenced the other players during your personal story. There's one I remember where you go back in time to retrieve an object, but there's multiples of this object that all look the same with only one being the right one. When you return and give the item to the NPC, he looks at it and throws it over the edge of the building, saying, "Oh well, one of you will luck out sooner or later.". I thought that was a really cool addition.
The same way you "justify" millions of Corvo, or Sam Fishers, by doing it in an instance so it gives the illusion of you being unique.
If a dev wants me to play his/her MMORPG, put some story content into the game. I have many other choices of entertainment.
The main problem are the different mechanics of immersion. Those are single player games. It works since you are the only one playing. It would break (at least for me) if there were hundreds of DeWitts right before your eyes (even though this game has a multi-dimensional theme). It's not about knowing there are other player playing the same story as you, it's about seeing them knowing you just kill the same 10 rabbits as they have done and it has no effect. The mechanics of immersion, the pace and interaction levels are completely different. In a single-player-game your actions have an effect, you see it. In MMORPGs you see a cutscene and then see the next player taking off for the same event, so no effect at all.
You won't see other irrelevant players in instances. That is why instances are used in MMOs for story. Phasing will work too.
+10
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Personal story is irrelevant in an MMO.
The story should come from the world you are a part of (the lore) and how you choose to fit into it.
Just look at SWTOR...For me, the personal story was very enjoyable but felt like a single player game. Personal story got in the way of social interaction. The MMO part should come before the RPG part just like in the name of the genre.
If it feels like a good single player game, i will play it as such.
its called wasted potential.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Soooo...I don't think that the typical notion of personal story as seen in SWTOR and GW2 has ANY place in an MMORPG. I think that the idea that every single player in the MMORPG is the "hero," and not only are they the "hero" but they literally have the same story is ridiculous.
Also, the personal story concept feels like it's always at odds with the actual MMORPG portion of the game. Oh, here is this great big world for you to explore...but whenever you feel like it you can go pursue your epic quest off in this pocket dimension that in no way influences the rest of the world
.
See for me, my "personal story" begins when I create my character and ends when I quit the game. My "personal story" in GW2 involved mastering different weapons with my elementalist, finding a great guild, delving into dungeons, fighting other players in WvW, wiping out huge camps of botting players, and...oh yeah there was some kind of scripted nonsense with NPC's talking as well.
I really think that MMORPG dev's need to start looking at the ENTIRE MMORPG EXPERIENCE as the "personal story." I am not playing this game to hear some story...I am playing it to MAKE MY OWN story.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I personally do not like the personal story bits that are becoming common in MMORPGs, like in FFXIV or GW2, or SWTOR to name a few.
I see MMORPGs a social games that should focus on grouping. You can and shuld play a ton of single player RPGs if what you really want is to solo.
To me the personal stories are a bad thing because they are usually all or mostly solo - and that goes against the whole grouping/social thing. MMORPGs should be designed to constantly support and encourage grouping, not to freaking discourage it.
Personal stories also lead to a very scripted and linear approach to the game, which is also bad when another strength of MMORPGs is (or should be) offering options and a more open experience.
Some MMOs have done personal story very well - but I still feel like it's the kind of thing that belongs in a single player game - and what it does is make the MMORPG FEEL like a single player game - just one where there are other players running around doing their own thing.
It's as if many modern MMORPGs have a single player and multiplayer mode all in one, and IMO, that's not what MMORPGs are or should be about. MMORPGs should be all about grouping with very litlte solo - you can solo in tons of other genres and games. The magic of MMORPGs is in the grouping, and it'd be nice to see development in MMORPGs focused on that instead of the single player campaign.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
I can't play potential. I don't care about potential. I play a game when it is fun to me now. It is irrelevant if it can be 10x better (for me), or 10x worse because that is not the game i am dealing with.
It bugs me when I see people using "solo" and "single player" as synonyms.
The fact that I do not want to be grouped does not mean I want to be alone in the world.
Having goals and motivations of my own does not have to mean that other people are irrelevent to me.
That's all well and good, and I agree that we should enjoy what we have...
A lot of people come to this site to discuss how we feel MMORPGs can be better, or what the problems we perceive with them are. There is no harm in doing this, and it in no way implies that we don't enjoy playing what we have now.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Sure .. and i am just responding to the "wasted potential" comment to clarify that wasted potential, even if it exists, affect me exactly nil ... a fair point in a discussion about potential.
True. It is certainly a preference to solo in a crowd.
Absolutely no need to be ashamed as a player.
Only one who should be ashamed is a developer who tried to make a multi-player game but they could not do it but still call it as such.
Random EA guy about SWTOR " WE can't play potential. WE don't care about potential. We play a game when it is fun to you now. It is irrelevant if it can be 10x better (for you), or 10x worse because that is not the game you are dealing with."
Now this is closer to the truth and does not sound very flattering.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **