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The War on Gold Farming...A Final blow? (Runescape related)
Helleri
Member UncommonPosts: 930
Even if you have not played Runescape or been a player in sometime. One thing I am sure a lot of people who are aware of Runescape know about the game; Is that since it's launch it has been ravaged by gold farmers. And, the Runescape team along with their parent company Jagex have fought long and hard to combat this to only small success (accept in recent years and the last few months specifically, to great success).
Earlier today, there was an announcement of a new feature to the game, which Jagex seems confident will destroy the gold farming issue once and for all. While, they claim, at the same time giving players more power to be rewarded for their in-game efforts then ever before. The full article and BTS (Behind the Scenes) video can be found here:
http://services.runescape.com/m=news/an-important-message-from-mod-mmg
I am an avid Runescaper, that has played since the games earliest days. As such, I am greatly interested to see what people think of this:
- Do you think it is as game-changing as it is made out to be?
- Can you see any major flaws with it?
- What other games can you recall having tried this or something similar to this; And as you know it was it to great triumph, limited success, or utter failure?
- If this works well for Runescape (arguably a game with one of the worst gold farming issues) can you see it working well in other MMORPG's?
Comments
Do you care to explain the old Runescape trade system? I played it only for a few weeks when I was younger so I know very little about the game and cannot comment on what they are trying to do to fix gold farming. So far it seems they are limiting trade to battle gold farmers. I could be misinterpreting however.
I do like how it seems you can donate your in-game gold to charity and use your in-game currency to pay for Runescape (monthly fee?).
Well the trade system throughout most the games history has been free trade. Which for Runescape means if it is a trade-able item, you can trade it for what ever you like. Players can do this in face to face trades or use the grand exchange (equating to a marketplace or auction house in other games).
Gold farmers cheat, by using bots to afk skills (for days or weeks at a time non stop) until their botting accounts have saved up a significant amount of materials. They dump this on the market, and sell the resulting in game currency for real world money.
That is the extreme short of it (you would be reading for a VERY long time if you wanted to have the issue explained in depth). The most sought after ends of this cheating, is for the end 'customer' to gain Runescape membership benefits, or cosmetic cash shop benefits (cool outfit skins, neat looking pets etc.)
Jagex believes that if they offer a secure way to make membership and cash shop currency trade-able in game. That the gold farmers core source of income will be effectively destroyed. At the same time this will allow free players to earn their desired memberships if they can not afford to subscribe to one.
Bonds do not replace in-game currency. They are simply a new trade-able items that can be purchased by a player in game, or directly from Jagex...Items that are redeemable for membership benefits, cash shop currency, and squeal of fortune tickets.
So, it's like Kronos in EQ2 in other words.
You can buy it and sell it for in game gold and then grind out alot of 99's by buying stuff on the GE with the gold or just buying spins. Just an easy way to get in game gold for real life money and for Jagex to make more money. Should remove membership in place of the bond system if their going to go f2p.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
That is a half truth. Gold sellers get their in-game currency to sell through bot accounts. No matter how much an honest player tries. they cannot play 24/7 for weeks on end. A bot can. And, so the honest player cannot compete with a bot. The Gold sellers dump mats on the market in massive quantities at rock bottom prices. Which in a free market lowers the trade value of the item. With an honest player frustrated over working hard and seeing nothing for it. The temptation to simply buy their wealth for real world money is far greater. And, who do they turn to when they give in? They turn to the people who create the desperation in the first place...
If what your saying is true. Then by that logic the following would be true as well: "drug dealing gang members do not belong in jail; Only drug addicts do."
Well the only real solution is to make almost all worthy equipment account or character bound on acquire. That way gold loses it's meaning quite fast.
This type of system takes the money from the bots and essentially gives it to the active players. Since the item can't really be converted to straight cash only in game or subscription the RMT industry is damaged. There will always be players who want to buy their gold and there will always be players who have an excess of gold on their account that essentially has no value. Marry the two of them without the 3rd party intermediary (or put the developer into that role). I've always been something of a gold collector in games that I play. When these types of systems come out, I get to play for free at the cost of a reduction in my pile of gold that wasn't really doing anything anyways. The effect to the bot/gold traders is that their business is reduced potentially to the point where they stop or reduce their bots which ends up benefiting all of the players. Do I care if the developer has replaced the gold trader as the 3rd party intermediary and makes some extra income? Not particularly as I benefit.
Eve's PLEX costs a bit more than a month's game time and the market controls the price. That's the ideal model IMO.
No, what he is saying is if no one wanted to purchase drugs, there would be no drug dealing gang members.
Demand comes first, then people move in to supply it.
Having the demand met by controlled means is the way its generally managed in real life, not surprising to see it in game.
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Eve online uses the PLEX which is the same basic concept. It's an in game item that can be redeemed for 30 days of play time. It can be freely traded or sold with no restriction. ISK (gold) farmers are just as pronounced in EVE as they are in Runescape. With the introduction of the PLEX, it has provided a safe and "legal" way for players to acquire in game currency in trade for RL currency.
By setting each PLEX at ~16-$17 (I don't partake so I'm not 100% on price) has forced ISK sellers to adjust their pricing in order to persuade buyers to go the illegal route instead of playing it safe. This reduces the amount of money they make and how much ISK is traded through these means.
While not completely eliminating the farming and selling, it as reduced it by an enormous amount.
I do recall that in EVE. I only played EVE for a very short time (just long enough to realize that if I kept playing it would become my life). But, I also recall as a newb not understanding what-so-ever how to earn my subscription. And in fact if I had wished to play EVE long term I probably would have just subscribed to the game as it seemed easier then figuring out how to, and then earning my sub each month. I can understand that someone new to Runescape might be confused about how to make a lot of money in order to buy these bonds. And, that they might be tempted to just do things the wrong way if presented with the option.
So, under normal circumstances I can see something like this only having an effect on gold farming but not squashing it out all together. Then again, there are some major differences with Runescape that might make it the end of bots. Firstly EVE is free on a trail basis. If you want to never pay for EVE from the word go, you goto figure things out pretty quick and be something of a natural at the game. Because, you only likely have 14-21 days before you have to pay or quit.
Runescapes basis however is in free to play. Members on the whole would rather buy mats then harvest mats themselves. This makes free players (who haven't as much choice for making good money) crucial to the economy as it's workhorse for gathering raw materials. And given Runescape's version of free play is indefinite (you can be a free player for as long as you like). There is not as much pressure to make a ton of money right away. Especially since it is most beneficial to become a member only after you are well into the higher end of being a mid level player.
Also, as I said in my original post, in recent years Jagex has been slowly winning this war. They have reduced bots and gold farmers/sellers down to a low enough number that something like this could very well be a final nail in the coffin.
similar systems are in EVE (plex) , EQ2 (krono), DDO (shards)
http://ddowiki.com/page/Astral_Shard
SOE and Turbine introduced their version of the system last year in 2012
RIFT has a version of this since going f2p and Wildstar will also
EQ2 fan sites
I think what you're missing is that this alone will not squash the RL trading but combined with all of jagex's other efforts it will make a very huge impact. The only way for a person to truly profit from selling ingame currency (especially with this new system in place) is to bot. They need to eradicate the bots. I personally built my own mining bot in eve ( disclaimer: I was learning programming. It was fun to build. I didn't use it for longer than a month and I didn't sell it to anyone. it was a learning experience) that was capable of sustaining a subscription without me putting forth any effort with plenty of cash leftover for pvp adventures. So basically, this will indeed put a huge impact on RL trading, but could potentially increase bots. Remove the bots to win.
The thing I was perceived to be missing was actually my point...I guess I didn't make it well, lol. The thing is in the last 3 months they have reduced botting in the game by 90% (to be more clear on what their recent efforts are accomplishing). They are getting better at stopping bots themselves. So, the focus on the bonds is about getting at a side of the issue that plays out largely outside of the game (And in-so-much, hitting this black market from both ends).
So finally, after 10 years, they suddenly discovered how to remove bots from the game ?
Wow, that must have been a magnificent moment !
There are a few alternative, darker explanations as to how things got to this point. I'd not be surprised if it wasn't a steady and unsustainable decrease in profit that motivated this sudden insight...
Jagex spent 6 years developing an editional title that they dumped 10's of millions into, only to scrap it. When asked why the ceo said (paraphrasing from memory here) "It was not an easy decision and it was a financial loss. But, in the end we felt it did not have the 'it' factor. We could have fixed it and released it as a game that was just like many others out there. But, that would not have been up to our standards. Is our players respect worth trading for 10's of millions? Never."
That is on example of a few times where Jagex made the right move at the cost of a substantial amount of profit, for the benefit of it's players. While ulterior motives are easily suspected of a large faceless corporation that owns a game studio as a subsidiary...I can't honestly suspect Jagex of being of any motivations other then the ones they say that they have. Time and again they have earned more respect then that. And I give them the benefit of the doubt
Additionally they are not a large faceless money hungry entity. Jagex is a private British company that has silent investment from some American investment firms. The dynamic here is different. it doesn't set them up to be secretly led by an odd looking character stroking a cat, half cloaked in shadow. There are no stock holders to please. And, each employees continued ability to keep on depends above all else on their players valuing their product. And, they do try their best to keep an open line of dialogue with players. Even right now I have been in another window discussing bonds with a Mod over comments. I can't think of another game where I can so easily talk directly to someone who is in charge of the game about what is going on with the game.
I appreciate the info. This seems to be the current trend it looks like with MMOs to combat gold farmers. Similar systems I could point out, off the top of my head, are GW2, EQ 1 and 2. I do not know how successful the system is, but it seems to try to target the players that are buying from the gold farmers, rather then targeting the gold farmers directly. Seems reasonable to me.
While it does seem useful, I still have my reservations. For a while now jagex has been releasing content that teaders on being play to win. And, this really pushes the limits of what makes a game pay to win.
On the one hand a player with real world currency to spare can use it to gain in game wealth. But, that does not necessarily translate to having an unfair advantage. Especially since one good bossing can make you just as much as one decent sale of a bond (and some players boss every day all day). Still even though Jagex believes this is not essentially buying gold. It kind of looks and feels like it. On the other hand, players can now earn their membership and other rewards in-game. Making the game arguably more play to win.
And, this is what I mean by teadering. Jagex has been releasing content that could be considered pay to win accept in each case for one redeeming aspect of that content. The direction they are taking is scary in this sense. Because they are walking a very fine line. And, what is more scary is that they are so good at doing it , lol.
Sorry huge rant right here, more pissed than ever at runescape right now.
P.S. Eve has maintained PLEX as a standard payment method, no game should ever 'just add' something so game changing. Do you know how long it took just to get a few mil? Now level 5s (sorry i meant level 30s now) will buy cards and own third age.....
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The ONLY way that third party gold sellers could ever possibly be discouraged from a game is if that game embraced players selling currency/items to each other for real money in game at no transaction cost. Picture an in game auction house for real money that doesn't charge a transaction fee. Of course this would not stop bots as people would still try to make as much currency as possible to sell, but it would stop third party sites from having to be involved. That's it, the only solution that could ever possibly work. There will never be any other solution because there is simply too much demand and too much money involved.
P.S. The way to stop bots is two steps, the first is by requiring payment and sub fees for accounts, no free accounts. The second is the company actually hiring gm's to patrol in game and actively search for and eliminate bots. Of course that won't happen so we the players are stuck with bots for the foreseeable future.
I'm trying to figure out what you mean here. Eve's PLEX was a NEW system introduced way late into the game ... so what are you getting at exactly?
It's not really RWT. It looks a little and feels a little like it but it's not.
1) you can obtain with bonds nothing greater then is available to other people to obtain in game.
2) Players will ultimately decide what bonds are worth in game (so far the max I heard of is 10 mil...10 mil doesn't even get you a bandos chestplate. They are not worth that much).
3) they can only be redeemed for membership credit, runecoins, or spin tickets... none of which gets you anything that is truly an unfair advantage.
4) Players can now earn membership by playing.
5) all the previous updates you complain about are all things people complained about being the way they were before they were changed by player demand... people will complain no matter what you do.
6) good that the profanities in your posts are censored. But, I don't feel it adds to what your trying to express at all. I in fact feel it just waters down what ever you point was (to the ends that I paid so much attention to all the splat marking that I am not even sure you were making any valid points).
It isn't anything more than a cash shop currency. It is exactly the same as every other cash shop game, and does very little to curb RMT.