Complete fallacy. The people that spew this nonsense are the people that refuse to play F2P games or just have an intense dislike for the model. They are wont to stereotype everything about F2P games.
When people use terms like " leechers" and "drifters" etc. their bias is obviously showing.
Its generally the game itself and how chat is moderated I find that determines what kind of community you have.
Nothing whatsoever to do with the pay model.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
It is human nature that you do not appreciate what you do not pay for yourself. Most people that play completely for free just do not have that "investment". So, what you find is that many (not all) f2p'ers will play a game for a period of time before moving on to the next "hot" f2p game. Therefore, for those that are still there, there is little reason to invest time into making friends with such people. And since you really don't know which ones will in fact bail at a moments notice, it is just easier to just avoid the f2p'er.
I don't think subscriptions are the biggest determinant of whether a community forms a strong sense of kinship and friendliness. In a game like Champions of Regnum or DAOC, the greatest determinant was whether that was good and balance RvR pvp. Regnum's community is noted for being far and away much more friendly and enthusiastic than WoW. This is because if you are not friendly and helpful to your realm mates, they will not run to help you during the war.
$15 a month is going to make me invested in a game!?? LOL it's going to make me less invested because if I don't like it I am gonna be outta there so fast!!
Why waste $15 bucks on something I don't like or I play it and find the community is a bunch of jerks?
$15 dollars a month is just the amount they force me to pay if I want to play it. It has nothing to do with whether I will stay or not.
It might have something to do with whether I decide to try the game tho.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I completely disagree with this article. Not everyone is happy with the move to F2P. I'm not at all happy with it. All those games moving from subscription based to free have, in the majority, done so because they were failing to retain subs. Most of the time that was due to the simple fact that the game was poor in too may areas.
Poor mechanics, poor graphics, dated gameplay, too casual friendly i.e. too easy, too fast to level to the cap, too much hand holding, too stuck on rails, too many goddamned wow clones etc.
The whole problem with the genre is this move to support more casual/solo play. MMO's need to be harder, they need to be taken more seriously and they need to require a commitment from those that play them. Perfect for the subscription model.
Those that want to cater to the casuals can stick with F2P if they want but I want a serious MMO that takes time and effort to progress through and I'll pay for the privilege of playing it.
In answer to the question, yes it makes a difference.
I agree with this.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I think it probably depends on whether the game started as {x payment model} or not. My experience is that you get a little better and slightly more mature population out of sub games probably because the people who play them feel they have made an investment and act accordingly. F2P games allow people to hop in and out of a game without any care in the world.
That being said, after a game ages, all bets are off and you'll likely see the same community devolutions in either.
Parenting makes the biggest difference in community. How many self entitled brats do you recall in your MMO from 10 years ago? A whole lot less than the generation we have now. It has more to do with society than anything, but at least subscription fees will keep out the majority of bots and spammers.
I do think sub models have better communities but that line is starting to get blurry.
For me, subscription means commitment. The player who pays every month is making a commitment to that game. They will be around awhile, more likely than not. It does not mean that there will be a "happy, happy, everyone is loved" kind of community, but attitudes will differ from the "I'm not having any fun and quit" F2P crowd. Even dicks have money.
The majority of the F2P crowd = "run at first sign of difficulty." The majority of the P2P crows = "persevere through the difficulty."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Imo players have become disgruntled by the increasingly unsocial MMO crowds, and what seems to coincide with the F2P era of MMOs taking off. But I feel like the biggest difference maker there has been that MMOs have simply become less social by design. They are more solo friendly, and when players don't need to rely on one another, they often could care less about being social.
The problem is, most MMO these days are not WORTH a sub. The quality for these sub games is very poor, lack of content, lack of openness to explore, etc... Make the game worth the money we are paying for and Sub only would be fine.
The only problem i have with the F2P model is the easy access for currency spammers. I was in a top raiding guild in eq1 and eq2. My guildmates would laugh because on our down days i was always trying out some F2P game from Asia. Those games helped me develop the thick skin for grinding and working through the time sinks the mainstream games had.
IMO i feel the game makes the community. In EQ1 you had to do outside of the norm things to lvl fast. Now in every game max level is handed to you on a platter with all this instancing crap, bonus exp buffs, healing potions. EQ1 healing pots didnt exist. You either made friends with a few healers you could group with on different days of the week or you just learned to be patient and pull what you could handle. Same went for damage or other classes. You made friends and they made friends so networks formed. Sometimes players would end up coming together to make a guild or be in different ones. But in the end a community is established.
In the MMO's of today, people only use friends list to keep track of other players to see who hits max level first.
No MMO is going to be able to churn out the content fast enough to keep this genre player base happy. Everyone has their first game or 2 they took a good long run at. You logged into those games everynight because of the relationships you had more than the content you planned to raid that night. People might say otherwise but reflect on the friendships you still have or had with players across the world.
I've been playing MMO's since the launch of EQ. I'm not going to take the time to list all the MMO's I've been a part of over the years. I just want to leave one comment.
It's been my overall experience that games that are P2P generally have less problem players. I have even noticed that games that offer a 'free trial' up to a certain level, that once you pass the point where the 'free trial' players don't have access that the amount of problems you will have will dramatically improve.
People who say that it doesn't matter what financial model is used and point to WoW as an example of a subscription game with a horrible community need to understand this.
WoW is what brought all the a-hole kiddie types that also gravitate to f2p. Every other subscription based MMORPG ,I've played every MAJOR one since UO ( I qualify this statement since their are ones that weren't big) and WoW is the only one with the a-hole community and its simple due to its sheer size.
Subscription games for the most part have a more sensible player base.
For me, subscription means commitment. The player who pays every month is making a commitment to that game. They will be around awhile, more likely than not. It does not mean that there will be a "happy, happy, everyone is loved" kind of community, but attitudes will differ from the "I'm not having any fun and quit" F2P crowd. Even dicks have money.
The majority of the F2P crowd = "run at first sign of difficulty." The majority of the P2P crows = "persevere through the difficulty."
I agree here. I been f2p player for over 6 years... People are crying instant whenever some difficulty shows up. Since most of the f2p models allow you to get really ahead from others with paying considerable amount of cash ppl get more and more greedy along with that lazy ofc. Yes, I agree p2p communities are more mature and ofc there are exclusions. One of the main reasons f2p community is not that good is cuz people always look up at the cash users in the game. They see how much they make and start to whine how f2p player cant compete with paying player which is pretty normal since those players are PAYING to get ahead and with that keeping the game alive.
I myself never used cash shop since I've never had the funds nor needed to pay Found my way to the top without paying in one of the biggest "pay 2 win games" as people would say.
On the other hand f2p communities bring more reality in my opinion Its just like real life.. people not that polite, you might as well be forced to solo things... and there are always ppl that give up before they've tried Take care
To me they don't. In every single subbased MMO I have played, I experienced trolling and other immature behaviour. So in my experience it is definately not a sub that prevents immature behaviour or even an outright bad community. Also in every single MMO it is possible to create a fun guild to play with.
I tend to see more helpful players in niche MMO's though. Both sub and f2p. While my impression with the late mainstream MMO's (again both sub and f2p) is that questions in general channels are basically ignored and trolling in the general channels is more frequent.
So my impression is that its just about more players == higher chance on trolls and other immature players, regardles of sub/f2p .
People who say that it doesn't matter what financial model is used and point to WoW as an example of a subscription game with a horrible community need to understand this.
WoW is what brought all the a-hole kiddie types that also gravitate to f2p. Every other subscription based MMORPG ,I've played every MAJOR one since UO ( I qualify this statement since their are ones that weren't big) and WoW is the only one with the a-hole community and its simple due to its sheer size.
Subscription games for the most part have a more sensible player base.
i agree WOW is the exception to sub based games
but other games that have been ftp for years -- DDO, LOTRO, EQ2, EQ, DCUO and whatever else
do not have a "less sensible" player base than a sub game
In every single subbased MMO I have played, I experienced trolling and other immature behaviour. So in my experience it is definately not a sub that prevents immature behaviour or even an outright bad community. Also in every single MMO it is possible to create a fun guild to play with.
I tend to see more helpful players in niche MMO's though. Both sub and f2p. While my impression with the late mainstream MMO's (again both sub and f2p) is that questions in general channels are basically ignored and trolling in the general channels is more frequent.
So my impression is that its just about more players == higher chance on trolls and other immature players, regardles of sub/f2p .
good summary i agree with
the more players you get -- the more riff raff you get (WOW being a great example)
This seems to be the mentality of F2P players more often than not. They take the games for granted and treat people in the game as if those other people are worth nothing to them. When a person has to invest significantly in something, it becomes worth a lot more to them and they are much more likely to avoid actions which would get them banned.
In my experience I see no real difference in payment model and community. The sub payment model has some effect on some people but really in both directions. Money isn't the only way for a player to invest in a game and feel committed. Money doesn't, in my experience, reduce the number of ass-hats.
Subscriptions keep the riff raff out. Anyone saying it does not matter does not play MMO's much. Players that have to pay to play have a lot more at risk than the normal f2p player, if your account gets banned, it costs to start up a new one.
And seriously those whining about Wow's community need to get a life. I do not notice anything different about the people who play Wow verses any other MMO I play.
Comments
Complete fallacy. The people that spew this nonsense are the people that refuse to play F2P games or just have an intense dislike for the model. They are wont to stereotype everything about F2P games.
When people use terms like " leechers" and "drifters" etc. their bias is obviously showing.
Its generally the game itself and how chat is moderated I find that determines what kind of community you have.
Nothing whatsoever to do with the pay model.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Let's party like it is 1863!
$15 a month is going to make me invested in a game!?? LOL it's going to make me less invested because if I don't like it I am gonna be outta there so fast!!
Why waste $15 bucks on something I don't like or I play it and find the community is a bunch of jerks?
$15 dollars a month is just the amount they force me to pay if I want to play it. It has nothing to do with whether I will stay or not.
It might have something to do with whether I decide to try the game tho.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I agree with this.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
This held true for me also. And last I played EQ2 about a month ago it was still a great community.
I think it probably depends on whether the game started as {x payment model} or not. My experience is that you get a little better and slightly more mature population out of sub games probably because the people who play them feel they have made an investment and act accordingly. F2P games allow people to hop in and out of a game without any care in the world.
That being said, after a game ages, all bets are off and you'll likely see the same community devolutions in either.
Parenting makes the biggest difference in community. How many self entitled brats do you recall in your MMO from 10 years ago? A whole lot less than the generation we have now. It has more to do with society than anything, but at least subscription fees will keep out the majority of bots and spammers.
I do think sub models have better communities but that line is starting to get blurry.
I've played alot of MMOs during the last 10+ years and from my experience the communities in P2P-MMOs are definately better.
For me, subscription means commitment. The player who pays every month is making a commitment to that game. They will be around awhile, more likely than not. It does not mean that there will be a "happy, happy, everyone is loved" kind of community, but attitudes will differ from the "I'm not having any fun and quit" F2P crowd. Even dicks have money.
The majority of the F2P crowd = "run at first sign of difficulty."
The majority of the P2P crows = "persevere through the difficulty."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
The only problem i have with the F2P model is the easy access for currency spammers. I was in a top raiding guild in eq1 and eq2. My guildmates would laugh because on our down days i was always trying out some F2P game from Asia. Those games helped me develop the thick skin for grinding and working through the time sinks the mainstream games had.
IMO i feel the game makes the community. In EQ1 you had to do outside of the norm things to lvl fast. Now in every game max level is handed to you on a platter with all this instancing crap, bonus exp buffs, healing potions. EQ1 healing pots didnt exist. You either made friends with a few healers you could group with on different days of the week or you just learned to be patient and pull what you could handle. Same went for damage or other classes. You made friends and they made friends so networks formed. Sometimes players would end up coming together to make a guild or be in different ones. But in the end a community is established.
In the MMO's of today, people only use friends list to keep track of other players to see who hits max level first.
No MMO is going to be able to churn out the content fast enough to keep this genre player base happy. Everyone has their first game or 2 they took a good long run at. You logged into those games everynight because of the relationships you had more than the content you planned to raid that night. People might say otherwise but reflect on the friendships you still have or had with players across the world.
I've been playing MMO's since the launch of EQ. I'm not going to take the time to list all the MMO's I've been a part of over the years. I just want to leave one comment.
It's been my overall experience that games that are P2P generally have less problem players. I have even noticed that games that offer a 'free trial' up to a certain level, that once you pass the point where the 'free trial' players don't have access that the amount of problems you will have will dramatically improve.
People who say that it doesn't matter what financial model is used and point to WoW as an example of a subscription game with a horrible community need to understand this.
WoW is what brought all the a-hole kiddie types that also gravitate to f2p. Every other subscription based MMORPG ,I've played every MAJOR one since UO ( I qualify this statement since their are ones that weren't big) and WoW is the only one with the a-hole community and its simple due to its sheer size.
Subscription games for the most part have a more sensible player base.
I agree here. I been f2p player for over 6 years... People are crying instant whenever some difficulty shows up. Since most of the f2p models allow you to get really ahead from others with paying considerable amount of cash ppl get more and more greedy along with that lazy ofc. Yes, I agree p2p communities are more mature and ofc there are exclusions. One of the main reasons f2p community is not that good is cuz people always look up at the cash users in the game. They see how much they make and start to whine how f2p player cant compete with paying player which is pretty normal since those players are PAYING to get ahead and with that keeping the game alive.
I myself never used cash shop since I've never had the funds nor needed to pay
Found my way to the top without paying in one of the biggest "pay 2 win games" as people would say.
On the other hand f2p communities bring more reality in my opinion
Its just like real life.. people not that polite, you might as well be forced to solo things... and there are always ppl that give up before they've tried 
Take care 
To me they don't. In every single subbased MMO I have played, I experienced trolling and other immature behaviour. So in my experience it is definately not a sub that prevents immature behaviour or even an outright bad community. Also in every single MMO it is possible to create a fun guild to play with.
I tend to see more helpful players in niche MMO's though. Both sub and f2p. While my impression with the late mainstream MMO's (again both sub and f2p) is that questions in general channels are basically ignored and trolling in the general channels is more frequent.
So my impression is that its just about more players == higher chance on trolls and other immature players, regardles of sub/f2p .
i agree with the ending too, the sub. doesnt make a better community, i live that through GW2 ...
i would say that sub. system usually deliver ugly personalities who believe that cause they pay everyone will be their puppy ...
the mechanics of the game are these which drive the community to be apathetic, negative or helpful and joyful ...
i agree WOW is the exception to sub based games
but other games that have been ftp for years -- DDO, LOTRO, EQ2, EQ, DCUO and whatever else
do not have a "less sensible" player base than a sub game
EQ2 fan sites
good summary i agree with
the more players you get -- the more riff raff you get (WOW being a great example)
EQ2 fan sites
"That which is free has no value."
This seems to be the mentality of F2P players more often than not. They take the games for granted and treat people in the game as if those other people are worth nothing to them. When a person has to invest significantly in something, it becomes worth a lot more to them and they are much more likely to avoid actions which would get them banned.
In my experience I see no real difference in payment model and community. The sub payment model has some effect on some people but really in both directions. Money isn't the only way for a player to invest in a game and feel committed. Money doesn't, in my experience, reduce the number of ass-hats.
Considering every F2P game I have ever played has had a crap community, I am going with yes.
There were also far more spammers and bots and all the rest too.
And why? Because you can never do anything meaningful to get rid of them.
At least with P2P games, an acct ban means something, but not so in F2P games.
Which is not to say P2P games always have great communities, but the F2P games almost always have had bad or worse ones.
Subscriptions keep the riff raff out. Anyone saying it does not matter does not play MMO's much. Players that have to pay to play have a lot more at risk than the normal f2p player, if your account gets banned, it costs to start up a new one.
And seriously those whining about Wow's community need to get a life. I do not notice anything different about the people who play Wow verses any other MMO I play.