Well, I myself started with UO when it launched back in 97' never found an MMO that gave me that same "buzz" since then. While I don't whine or complain a lot about MMO's or where they've headed. I will say after vanilla WoW it felt like MMO's started to be designed without a lot of things that made MMO's different from the RPG game you played on whatever console at that time. MMO's have been turning to a less social/community friendly path with "group/dungeon" finders for those working people who don't have the time for shouting in chat.. but what happened to socializing making friends setting maybe a schedule with these friends so you won't have to? BOOM Dungeon/Group Finder! People use "real world", "work", and "family" as reasons to why MMO's have to be beat in a day *CONGRATS YOU WON WORLD OF WARCRAFT!" But then they whine about there's nothing left to do. So dev's hear this and make "sandbox" MMO's that done hold your hands tell you where to go what to do, then those same people complain "it's stupid, there's no quests, there's no endgame!.. or "its too hard, this will fail"
Also, another large part I would say is the access to PC's. Back in the day when UO came out, not everyone and their brother had a PC, today PC's are about as common as cell phones. So a lot of the time (no offense to those of you who don't do this) you'll get the gamer, who typically plays on a console, hop on the PC fire up an MMO and go into it with the same expectations as he/she has with CoD or something. I'm sorry but to me MMO's have strayed so far from where they were. And most people that do play them still me being one, also don't spend much time in the forums for them complaining about something because I'm busy enjoying it.
TL:DR
Easier access to PC's now compared to when MMO's like UO came out
Younger Gamers not fully understanding MMOs aren't CoD/LoL
OKAY done sorry, lol did this on my phone at work fingers are sore
It is rather interesting if you think about it; As the world becomes more connected via social media the mmo sphere is hell bent on becoming more insular. Someone's gonna make a thesis on that someday
MMORPG really means something totally different than these modern day cash cows, the games in my opinion are not meant to garner our long term loyalty, their purpose is grabbing as much cash as they can before the player moves on to the next one. I really don't even think they should be allow to be called MMORPGs.
Would you rather a game (one game) gave you 2 months of fun, or 6 months of fun?
For me, there is no difference. If a game will give me 6 months of fun, I'm fine with it; if not, I'm fine with it too. Sure, it's nice to have a game which I can play for a long time, like, for example, I'm currently playing WoT - 2 years and counting, I'm still having a blast every time I log in.
But if there would be a game tomorrow that'll give me more fun, I'll switch without any negative emotions or hesitations. People talk about "investing" in the game, and hesitance to lose "the investments" - I'm not "investing" in games, I'm getting fun out of them. All my attitudes towards games are measured in fun received, not "investments made".
*shrug* Having one game giving 6 month of fun is better than giving 2 months of fun, especially if it's a F2P game, but it's a "little" better, while making such game is a lot harder; so I don't really expect them to be done with that goal in mind.
Wow was not originally targeted at its current player base. They were after a specific demographic of the era.
Once upon a time the were a couple handfuls of mmo on the periphery of gaming. Each was unique in content and delivery but they all shared 1 thing. To one degree or another they were all unforgiving. That similarity created a completely new but small demographic in the mmo sphere. Burnouts even people who loved their particular game eventually had 1 corpse run too many 1 pk too many. Wow was designed with malice aforethought as the mmo version of Vegas; the vacation spot one could come blow off steam and depress mindlessly rolling through content. Then they happily returned to their poisen of choice. Wow did very well out of this but wasn't in any danger of de-throning EQ.
Then something happened that no one including Blizz expected. that style of play enticed gamers that were on no-bodies radar to enter the scene. Bliz merely adapted to changing market conditions. Over time Bliz has experimented on it's player base via pvp/pve ratios; easier/harder pve content and I assume that experimentation goes on.
WOW was always intended to be a far more accessible, more forgiving and less grindy MMO than its predecessors. What happened in WOW is exactly what they expected to happen, only it happened at a far more accelerated rate in the first six months than predicted.
Yup to the more forgiving gaming no to the they expected the quadrupling of the entire mmo population, the influx composed of non mmo gamers many weren't even "gamers") all in their game. They said at the time it took them by surprise. Up until then they were targeting an existing untapped mmo market share.
Incorrect. They predicted a massive swell in the numbers and even had the extra servers procured and ready to turn on, however they expected at least 6 months before they would reach the numbers that ended up appearing within the first month or so. Blizzard knew exactly who they were attracting and what kind of numbers they'd be looking at. The surprise wasn't the number of people, but rather how quickly they came. The game was designed the way it was for a reason - to attracted a sea of new players far greater than the current puddle that existed.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Wow was not originally targeted at its current player base. They were after a specific demographic of the era.
Once upon a time the were a couple handfuls of mmo on the periphery of gaming. Each was unique in content and delivery but they all shared 1 thing. To one degree or another they were all unforgiving. That similarity created a completely new but small demographic in the mmo sphere. Burnouts even people who loved their particular game eventually had 1 corpse run too many 1 pk too many. Wow was designed with malice aforethought as the mmo version of Vegas; the vacation spot one could come blow off steam and depress mindlessly rolling through content. Then they happily returned to their poisen of choice. Wow did very well out of this but wasn't in any danger of de-throning EQ.
Then something happened that no one including Blizz expected. that style of play enticed gamers that were on no-bodies radar to enter the scene. Bliz merely adapted to changing market conditions. Over time Bliz has experimented on it's player base via pvp/pve ratios; easier/harder pve content and I assume that experimentation goes on.
WOW was always intended to be a far more accessible, more forgiving and less grindy MMO than its predecessors. What happened in WOW is exactly what they expected to happen, only it happened at a far more accelerated rate in the first six months than predicted.
Yup to the more forgiving gaming no to the they expected the quadrupling of the entire mmo population, the influx composed of non mmo gamers many weren't even "gamers") all in their game. They said at the time it took them by surprise. Up until then they were targeting an existing untapped mmo market share.
Incorrect. They predicted a massive swell in the numbers and even had the extra servers procured and ready to turn on, however they expected at least 6 months before they would reach the numbers that ended up appearing within the first month or so. Blizzard knew exactly who they were attracting and what kind of numbers they'd be looking at. The surprise wasn't the number of people, but rather how quickly they came. The game was designed the way it was for a reason - to attracted a sea of new players far greater than the current puddle that existed.
Sigh. yes they predicted a large influx OF EXISTING mmo ganers and moderate influx of SP gamers, they were not expecting the influx of large numbers of NON Gamers and bigger spike than expected of SP gamers.
By calling the need for top notch graphics a bane of MMOs I was referring to the graphics coming before gameplay. The difference between MMOs and shooters is that you won't see CoD and Battlefield sacrificing the graphics. Were as you do in MMO's, EQNext being the latest casualty where budget determined that it not try for the high bar.
Wow was not originally targeted at its current player base. They were after a specific demographic of the era.
Once upon a time the were a couple handfuls of mmo on the periphery of gaming. Each was unique in content and delivery but they all shared 1 thing. To one degree or another they were all unforgiving. That similarity created a completely new but small demographic in the mmo sphere. Burnouts even people who loved their particular game eventually had 1 corpse run too many 1 pk too many. Wow was designed with malice aforethought as the mmo version of Vegas; the vacation spot one could come blow off steam and depress mindlessly rolling through content. Then they happily returned to their poisen of choice. Wow did very well out of this but wasn't in any danger of de-throning EQ.
Then something happened that no one including Blizz expected. that style of play enticed gamers that were on no-bodies radar to enter the scene. Bliz merely adapted to changing market conditions. Over time Bliz has experimented on it's player base via pvp/pve ratios; easier/harder pve content and I assume that experimentation goes on.
WOW was always intended to be a far more accessible, more forgiving and less grindy MMO than its predecessors. What happened in WOW is exactly what they expected to happen, only it happened at a far more accelerated rate in the first six months than predicted.
Yup to the more forgiving gaming no to the they expected the quadrupling of the entire mmo population, the influx composed of non mmo gamers many weren't even "gamers") all in their game. They said at the time it took them by surprise. Up until then they were targeting an existing untapped mmo market share.
Incorrect. They predicted a massive swell in the numbers and even had the extra servers procured and ready to turn on, however they expected at least 6 months before they would reach the numbers that ended up appearing within the first month or so. Blizzard knew exactly who they were attracting and what kind of numbers they'd be looking at. The surprise wasn't the number of people, but rather how quickly they came. The game was designed the way it was for a reason - to attracted a sea of new players far greater than the current puddle that existed.
What helped Blizzard IMO is that many of their customers came directly from their already huge online player base that most other games never had. Almost all previous MMORPG companies were unique and IP's were originals and none from online IPs. Blizzard had a huge Battlenet following on Diablo/Starcraft/Warcraft franchises and used one of it's defining ones to make the game.
Originally posted by BMBender ...Then something happened that no one including Blizz expected. that style of play enticed gamers that were on no-bodies radar to enter the scene. ...
Good post, but I'm highlighting this part because I think you give far too much credit to gameplay. Those millions would never know about the gameplay if WoW wasn't being marketed to them on a constant basis on the internet, tv, radio, and in-store-product-placement.
WoW was the first and, to this day, only MMO that effectively marketed its product. It is the Geico of the MMO industry.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Sad part is that same MMOs are among longest and most expensive games to develop. Yet they burn and die in 2 months.
Why do you care?
Personally i don't. I am not a game dev and i care less if a game crash and burn in 2 weeks, or 2 days.
Now if a game gives me 2 months of fun .. hey .. that is not bad. I will take it.
Would you rather a game that gave you 2 months of fun, or 6 months of fun?
3 different games giving me 2 months of fun each .. is the same as one game giving me 6 months of fun .. assuming, of course, the levels of fun are the same.
That wasn't really answering the question...
Would you rather a game (one game) gave you 2 months of fun, or 6 months of fun?
That question is meaningless because there are more than just two games in the world.
I choose to play a multitude of shorter games to have a variety of gaming experiences. I would not stick with one long one. That is the point.
Some great posts here! I appreciate the participation and thoughts everyone.
Couple of thoughts:
I'm looking forward to how devs, in the future, create user interfaces which help facilitate our social interactions better.
Is there a better way to do the chat box? Is Teamspeak or Ventrilo the only good way to voice chat?
I know some games try to intergrate this and they could probably manipulate things to make for some more interesting experiences.
I don't mind FUN grind, so what grind experience would be more appealing for players? I'm soooo in favor of a slow down in race to level cap. I prefer to enjoy my time instead of just racing through it
Immersion is very important to me and one thing that is highly overlooked that WoW does, and does VERY well is the feeling of a complete, seemless, world. I know tech makes for limitations but if they could rid of all load screens between continents....wow.
Too many new mmo's lose the immersion, in my humble opinion, because you go from one zone to another and need a load screen. Okay i know they are a necessary thing, but c'mon get creative and make it feel non-loadscreen like somehow.
Graphics: Important to a degree but not the end all be all. I think any game just needs to find its 'STYLE'.l What i would appreciate seeing is more huge grand scale feelings. We as gamers want to live in this world so wow us with granduer.
Love dynamic questing. but how can they push it forward? It was the themepark evolution here but I crave another step! hehe
Love day / night cycles: but games don't use them enough to create more deep gameplay. Pen and Paper D and D you were always using torches and what not to see. You get the best vision day or night these days in MMO's. Why not change that?
Weather FX? Oh sure games put them in but have they be in enough to really create a more immersive experience? The feeling of trudging through the snow? The feeling of wind pushing your character? The falling Rain making you seek shelter in a cave that then becomes its own little adventure. I dunno I haven't played a game that explored enough of these things being mechanics.
Okay enough for now. What do you gamers out there feeling about these things?
These new MMOs are too fast-paced and focused on instant gratification. They don't feel like exploring a world it's just things yelling at you "go here! do this! follow the shiny thing!" You level up so fast that there's no real sense of accomplishment and rush through the zones following the quest arrows so fast that you never really care about where you are and what you're doing. They tell you "endgame is the real game" but endgame is still the same boring crap it has been for years in every almost game. If I wanted that I'd just go play WoW because they have far more "endgame" content than anyone else.
I recently picked up Vanguard, never having played it and was impressed by how different it was to "modern" MMOs in a mostly good way. The pace is a lot slower. The world feels actually "massive" and the game's systems are deep enough that you actually feel a small sense of accomplishment when you start to figure them out. Also, I found it refreshing to be in a game where you didn't gain 20 levels in the first 2 hours playing.
I think, a bit ironically maybe, if you design your game for people who need constant instant gratification they will get bored of it a lot quicker. Whereas if you make them take their time they will feel more invested in your game-world. I also think a little bit of challenge and "work" is good, even in a game. After all, if everything is just thrown right into your lap you don't appreciate it and get bored quickly. Not saying every game has to be EVE Online, which I think goes to the opposite extreme, but there must be a happy medium somewhere.
These new MMOs are too fast-paced and focused on instant gratification. They don't feel like exploring a world it's just things yelling at you "go here! do this! follow the shiny thing!" You level up so fast that there's no real sense of accomplishment and rush through the zones following the quest arrows so fast that you never really care about where you are and what you're doing. They tell you "endgame is the real game" but endgame is still the same boring crap it has been for years in every almost game. If I wanted that I'd just go play WoW because they have far more "endgame" content than anyone else.
I recently picked up Vanguard, never having played it and was impressed by how different it was to "modern" MMOs in a mostly good way. The pace is a lot slower. The world feels actually "massive" and the game's systems are deep enough that you actually feel a small sense of accomplishment when you start to figure them out. Also, I found it refreshing to be in a game where you didn't gain 20 levels in the first 2 hours playing.
I think, a bit ironically maybe, if you design your game for people who need constant instant gratification they will get bored of it a lot quicker. Whereas if you make them take their time they will feel more invested in your game-world. I also think a little bit of challenge and "work" is good, even in a game. After all, if everything is just thrown right into your lap you don't appreciate it and get bored quickly. Not saying every game has to be EVE Online, which I think goes to the opposite extreme, but there must be a happy medium somewhere.
Yeah, i think there is something to be said for well thought out pacing in a game. In all aspects. By that i mean, the pace at which you level up, uncover zones, fill up faction bars, complete quests, etc.
What if a game gave you the option to choose your play style by selecting slow or fast pace. In turn that would let you level quicker or slower. Faster would give you smaller, less potent rewards, and slower would give you larger much more powerful items and gear.
Since many of us have posted that most gamers will choose quicker paths to end game content; which then would we now choose given the gear trade off?
Its already been said but: All mmos are basically the same nowadays. Once you realize that "new" mmo is the same as all the other ones with better graphics it's not fun anymore.
If a mmo comes out with revolutionary combat and other mechanics it'll be the next great one.
These new MMOs are too fast-paced and focused on instant gratification. They don't feel like exploring a world it's just things yelling at you "go here! do this! follow the shiny thing!" You level up so fast that there's no real sense of accomplishment and rush through the zones following the quest arrows so fast that you never really care about where you are and what you're doing. They tell you "endgame is the real game" but endgame is still the same boring crap it has been for years in every almost game. If I wanted that I'd just go play WoW because they have far more "endgame" content than anyone else.
I recently picked up Vanguard, never having played it and was impressed by how different it was to "modern" MMOs in a mostly good way. The pace is a lot slower. The world feels actually "massive" and the game's systems are deep enough that you actually feel a small sense of accomplishment when you start to figure them out. Also, I found it refreshing to be in a game where you didn't gain 20 levels in the first 2 hours playing.
I think, a bit ironically maybe, if you design your game for people who need constant instant gratification they will get bored of it a lot quicker. Whereas if you make them take their time they will feel more invested in your game-world. I also think a little bit of challenge and "work" is good, even in a game. After all, if everything is just thrown right into your lap you don't appreciate it and get bored quickly. Not saying every game has to be EVE Online, which I think goes to the opposite extreme, but there must be a happy medium somewhere.
Yeah, i think there is something to be said for well thought out pacing in a game. In all aspects. By that i mean, the pace at which you level up, uncover zones, fill up faction bars, complete quests, etc.
What if a game gave you the option to choose your play style by selecting slow or fast pace. In turn that would let you level quicker or slower. Faster would give you smaller, less potent rewards, and slower would give you larger much more powerful items and gear.
Since many of us have posted that most gamers will choose quicker paths to end game content; which then would we now choose given the gear trade off?
You would still end up in the same place as current pos games with 1/3 -1/2 your population b **** and moaning since you are still trying to cram multible dissimilar play styles into the same game world witch has worked sooo well for the last 10 yrs
Love day / night cycles: but games don't use them enough to create more deep gameplay. Pen and Paper D and D you were always using torches and what not to see. You get the best vision day or night these days in MMO's. Why not change that?
While I'd love that too, or at least much darker nights than usually, I don't see it happen anytime soon... if a developer tried such a thing, that vocal majority would complain that nights are annoying.
See how Turbine did Moria in LOTRO... there's more light and colors in there than in a disco night club a Saturday evening at prime time. You would have thought that there would at least be some pitch black parts... but nope. I'd have loved to have parts where I'm forced to use a torch, and they could also have used darkness to hide monsters and make the place really scary at times.
The only recent game which dared to add some total darkness and use it for the gameplay is GW2 in some of the jumping puzzles.
The community gets excited, you get excited, the game releases, you buy it and play it.
At first you are giddy and excited and enjoying your time in the game.
A month or two goes by.
Things become the norm. Things which bother you begin boiling to the surface and your interest starts to fade.
Your shiny new mmo is now a slow falling star....
I'm am soooo frustrated by this newly realized process of emotional waxing / waning that I've felt toward all new mmo's within the past 2 years.
Does the community also feel these things?
Why aren't these new mmo crops holding our attention like the mmo's we love to reminisce about did?
What are they lacking to really hook us?
These are questions I'm sorely trying to get answers to as an individual gamer who loves mmo's and maybe if other gamers are feeling the same way we can reason this out as a community.
What do YOU think?
I think it's just that our first MMO of the type (ie. PvP, sandbox, themepark) had that magic because it was new, but then all clones thereafter had the same ol' same ol' feel.
The community gets excited, you get excited, the game releases, you buy it and play it.
At first you are giddy and excited and enjoying your time in the game.
A month or two goes by.
Things become the norm. Things which bother you begin boiling to the surface and your interest starts to fade.
Your shiny new mmo is now a slow falling star....
I'm am soooo frustrated by this newly realized process of emotional waxing / waning that I've felt toward all new mmo's within the past 2 years.
Does the community also feel these things?
Why aren't these new mmo crops holding our attention like the mmo's we love to reminisce about did?
What are they lacking to really hook us?
These are questions I'm sorely trying to get answers to as an individual gamer who loves mmo's and maybe if other gamers are feeling the same way we can reason this out as a community.
What do YOU think?
I think it's just that our first MMO of the type (ie. PvP, sandbox, themepark) had that magic because it was new, but then all clones thereafter had the same ol' same ol' feel.
That and they were often focused on one or a limited number of play styles witch allowed them the breathing room to actually finish/polish them before opening to the masses. Start adding in more demographics one inevitably must add more feature sets/systems to support them. Eventually one reaches the point where they are chasing a moving target and never have the time to actually finish anything.
What if a game gave you the option to choose your play style by selecting slow or fast pace. In turn that would let you level quicker or slower. Faster would give you smaller, less potent rewards, and slower would give you larger much more powerful items and gear.
Yeah, i would definitely like and use a slower paced leveling option even if no reward was offered for it. It's funny how a lot of the players who look for the quickest way to level cap and complain that leveling is too slow and "grindy" are usually also the ones complaining about there being nothing to do a month after release
What if a game gave you the option to choose your play style by selecting slow or fast pace. In turn that would let you level quicker or slower. Faster would give you smaller, less potent rewards, and slower would give you larger much more powerful items and gear.
Yeah, i would definitely like and use a slower paced leveling option even if no reward was offered for it. It's funny how a lot of the players who look for the quickest way to level cap and complain that leveling is too slow and "grindy" are usually also the ones complaining about there being nothing to do a month after release
It's a combination of design and buyer experience. So much of the genre has been codified over the past decade or so (think dailies, endgame dungeons, trinity, quest hubs) that the differences between one game and another very often lie in aesthetics, overall quality, and minor tweaks to the same basic formula. If someone is tired of a certain style of gameplay, moving on to a new MMO is very likely to only bring a short reprieve, hence the excitement and newness replaced by feelings of familiarity and boredom. While I still think the whole WoW-clone phrase is overdone, at times the genre feels a lot like MOBA and FPS, with seemingly more similarities between titles than differences.
I'll say this, however: I'm not entirely sure that MMO development is yet sophisticated enough to hold a typical gamer's undivided attention for more than a couple years anymore. That may sound like an indictment against today's gamers but I think it speaks just as much to what tools devs have used to tackle the problem. Adding raids or new pvp arenas are no longer enough. New zones with new quests aren't enough. Treadmill progression isn't enough. When I look at how much more advanced a series like GTA is now ten years after Vice City when compared to games like WoW or Everquest 2, I feel as if MMOs are not nearly fluid or adaptable or progressive enough to capture more than the interest of the invested hardcore fans (which are likely to number in the tens of thousands rather than the millions the devs might want).
There's a need to rethink how the games are made, maintained, and evolved as time goes by if upcoming MMOs are to stay new and shiny for years rather than fade away.
Comments
It is rather interesting if you think about it; As the world becomes more connected via social media the mmo sphere is hell bent on becoming more insular. Someone's gonna make a thesis on that someday
Yes, I agree. Longer the better.
Incorrect. They predicted a massive swell in the numbers and even had the extra servers procured and ready to turn on, however they expected at least 6 months before they would reach the numbers that ended up appearing within the first month or so. Blizzard knew exactly who they were attracting and what kind of numbers they'd be looking at. The surprise wasn't the number of people, but rather how quickly they came. The game was designed the way it was for a reason - to attracted a sea of new players far greater than the current puddle that existed.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Sigh. yes they predicted a large influx OF EXISTING mmo ganers and moderate influx of SP gamers, they were not expecting the influx of large numbers of NON Gamers and bigger spike than expected of SP gamers.
What helped Blizzard IMO is that many of their customers came directly from their already huge online player base that most other games never had. Almost all previous MMORPG companies were unique and IP's were originals and none from online IPs. Blizzard had a huge Battlenet following on Diablo/Starcraft/Warcraft franchises and used one of it's defining ones to make the game.
Good post, but I'm highlighting this part because I think you give far too much credit to gameplay. Those millions would never know about the gameplay if WoW wasn't being marketed to them on a constant basis on the internet, tv, radio, and in-store-product-placement.
WoW was the first and, to this day, only MMO that effectively marketed its product. It is the Geico of the MMO industry.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
That question is meaningless because there are more than just two games in the world.
I choose to play a multitude of shorter games to have a variety of gaming experiences. I would not stick with one long one. That is the point.
Some great posts here! I appreciate the participation and thoughts everyone.
Couple of thoughts:
I'm looking forward to how devs, in the future, create user interfaces which help facilitate our social interactions better.
Is there a better way to do the chat box? Is Teamspeak or Ventrilo the only good way to voice chat?
I know some games try to intergrate this and they could probably manipulate things to make for some more interesting experiences.
I don't mind FUN grind, so what grind experience would be more appealing for players? I'm soooo in favor of a slow down in race to level cap. I prefer to enjoy my time instead of just racing through it
Immersion is very important to me and one thing that is highly overlooked that WoW does, and does VERY well is the feeling of a complete, seemless, world. I know tech makes for limitations but if they could rid of all load screens between continents....wow.
Too many new mmo's lose the immersion, in my humble opinion, because you go from one zone to another and need a load screen. Okay i know they are a necessary thing, but c'mon get creative and make it feel non-loadscreen like somehow.
Graphics: Important to a degree but not the end all be all. I think any game just needs to find its 'STYLE'.l What i would appreciate seeing is more huge grand scale feelings. We as gamers want to live in this world so wow us with granduer.
Love dynamic questing. but how can they push it forward? It was the themepark evolution here but I crave another step! hehe
Love day / night cycles: but games don't use them enough to create more deep gameplay. Pen and Paper D and D you were always using torches and what not to see. You get the best vision day or night these days in MMO's. Why not change that?
Weather FX? Oh sure games put them in but have they be in enough to really create a more immersive experience? The feeling of trudging through the snow? The feeling of wind pushing your character? The falling Rain making you seek shelter in a cave that then becomes its own little adventure. I dunno I haven't played a game that explored enough of these things being mechanics.
Okay enough for now. What do you gamers out there feeling about these things?
These new MMOs are too fast-paced and focused on instant gratification. They don't feel like exploring a world it's just things yelling at you "go here! do this! follow the shiny thing!" You level up so fast that there's no real sense of accomplishment and rush through the zones following the quest arrows so fast that you never really care about where you are and what you're doing. They tell you "endgame is the real game" but endgame is still the same boring crap it has been for years in every almost game. If I wanted that I'd just go play WoW because they have far more "endgame" content than anyone else.
I recently picked up Vanguard, never having played it and was impressed by how different it was to "modern" MMOs in a mostly good way. The pace is a lot slower. The world feels actually "massive" and the game's systems are deep enough that you actually feel a small sense of accomplishment when you start to figure them out. Also, I found it refreshing to be in a game where you didn't gain 20 levels in the first 2 hours playing.
I think, a bit ironically maybe, if you design your game for people who need constant instant gratification they will get bored of it a lot quicker. Whereas if you make them take their time they will feel more invested in your game-world. I also think a little bit of challenge and "work" is good, even in a game. After all, if everything is just thrown right into your lap you don't appreciate it and get bored quickly. Not saying every game has to be EVE Online, which I think goes to the opposite extreme, but there must be a happy medium somewhere.
Yeah, i think there is something to be said for well thought out pacing in a game. In all aspects. By that i mean, the pace at which you level up, uncover zones, fill up faction bars, complete quests, etc.
What if a game gave you the option to choose your play style by selecting slow or fast pace. In turn that would let you level quicker or slower. Faster would give you smaller, less potent rewards, and slower would give you larger much more powerful items and gear.
Since many of us have posted that most gamers will choose quicker paths to end game content; which then would we now choose given the gear trade off?
If a mmo comes out with revolutionary combat and other mechanics it'll be the next great one.
You would still end up in the same place as current pos games with 1/3 -1/2 your population b **** and moaning since you are still trying to cram multible dissimilar play styles into the same game world witch has worked sooo well for the last 10 yrs
While I'd love that too, or at least much darker nights than usually, I don't see it happen anytime soon... if a developer tried such a thing, that vocal majority would complain that nights are annoying.
See how Turbine did Moria in LOTRO... there's more light and colors in there than in a disco night club a Saturday evening at prime time. You would have thought that there would at least be some pitch black parts... but nope. I'd have loved to have parts where I'm forced to use a torch, and they could also have used darkness to hide monsters and make the place really scary at times.
The only recent game which dared to add some total darkness and use it for the gameplay is GW2 in some of the jumping puzzles.
My computer is better than yours.
I think it's just that our first MMO of the type (ie. PvP, sandbox, themepark) had that magic because it was new, but then all clones thereafter had the same ol' same ol' feel.
That and they were often focused on one or a limited number of play styles witch allowed them the breathing room to actually finish/polish them before opening to the masses. Start adding in more demographics one inevitably must add more feature sets/systems to support them. Eventually one reaches the point where they are chasing a moving target and never have the time to actually finish anything.
Yeah, i would definitely like and use a slower paced leveling option even if no reward was offered for it. It's funny how a lot of the players who look for the quickest way to level cap and complain that leveling is too slow and "grindy" are usually also the ones complaining about there being nothing to do a month after release
I don't complain. I move on.
It's a combination of design and buyer experience. So much of the genre has been codified over the past decade or so (think dailies, endgame dungeons, trinity, quest hubs) that the differences between one game and another very often lie in aesthetics, overall quality, and minor tweaks to the same basic formula. If someone is tired of a certain style of gameplay, moving on to a new MMO is very likely to only bring a short reprieve, hence the excitement and newness replaced by feelings of familiarity and boredom. While I still think the whole WoW-clone phrase is overdone, at times the genre feels a lot like MOBA and FPS, with seemingly more similarities between titles than differences.
I'll say this, however: I'm not entirely sure that MMO development is yet sophisticated enough to hold a typical gamer's undivided attention for more than a couple years anymore. That may sound like an indictment against today's gamers but I think it speaks just as much to what tools devs have used to tackle the problem. Adding raids or new pvp arenas are no longer enough. New zones with new quests aren't enough. Treadmill progression isn't enough. When I look at how much more advanced a series like GTA is now ten years after Vice City when compared to games like WoW or Everquest 2, I feel as if MMOs are not nearly fluid or adaptable or progressive enough to capture more than the interest of the invested hardcore fans (which are likely to number in the tens of thousands rather than the millions the devs might want).
There's a need to rethink how the games are made, maintained, and evolved as time goes by if upcoming MMOs are to stay new and shiny for years rather than fade away.