Originally posted by Keushpuppy If you want perma death just delete your character when you die.
If you don't want it, play any of the 1000's of mmorpgs available.
Sure.
But since 99.99% of the games have no PD, he is just giving you a tip of how to enable PD if you really want it.
True but the purpose of permadeath is that you can't turn back where as 'simply delete your character' is a decision you make when you die which ultimately means, you don't delete your character unless you really commit to deleting your character when you die.
If you are not committed to losing your character when it dies, why are you even considering playing a peramadeath game? If you not willing to have your character deleted when it dies, you should be playing non-permadeath games.
A random thought on PD, what if in a f2p game, you had to pay for lives. Maybe 5 dollars a life, it could even be in game currency actually. This way there would be a variety of players taking different levels of risks based on how much they are willing to put into the game. There would be players that want to play with 1 life, and so they play it safe, and there would be players willing to die for stupid reasons, playing a little more recklessly.
Or those who would want to play a little more recklessly will just not play this game, and go for something else with no PD.
I don't play recklessly at all and I wouldn't play the game at all, ever, under any circumstances.
If they donated half of the price of a new life to start a children's charity?
Geez, we picked up trash along the highway just so a charity could have a sign and get a little advertisement , I would have much rather played a game for 5 minutes.
We all have different priorities and causes. You said under any circumstances.
I meant what I said. I play games for fun. Permadeath is not fun for me. Therefore I'm not playing, I don't care what ridiculous thing you want to attach to it.
Originally posted by Keushpuppy If you want perma death just delete your character when you die.
Some ways why permadeath server and deleting your char when you die are different things:
Gameplay A: Npcs are attacking your city, you and your friends are defending it.
You delete your char when you die: All your friends will be able to respawn to help your to defend your city.
Permadeath:People start again when they die and so you would have less reinforcements.
Gameplay B: A sandbox game that is like ultima online. You have a friend that is a very good blacksmith.
You delete your char when you die: This blacksmith guy will be able to help people again.
Permadeath: The world will lose a very good blacksmith, this guy will not be able to help you.
Gameplay C: Player A has a house and player B stay in this house with player A when he is there.
Player B delete his char when he dies: Nothing Happens.
Permadeath: He will not be able to enter house again, because player A will be dead and and because player B dont have the keys he will not be able to enter the house.
And all of those things are fine. Your control over a game stops at your character. If you want to play permadeath, you can only demand it for your character, you cannot demand it for anyone else. If you want the "permadeath" situations above, only play with friends who are similarly committed to offing themselves when they die. Otherwise, let people play the way they want to play. What do you care? You don't have a character anymore!
Originally posted by Keushpuppy If you want perma death just delete your character when you die.
If you don't want it, play any of the 1000's of mmorpgs available.
Sure.
But since 99.99% of the games have no PD, he is just giving you a tip of how to enable PD if you really want it.
True but the purpose of permadeath is that you can't turn back where as 'simply delete your character' is a decision you make when you die which ultimately means, you don't delete your character unless you really commit to deleting your character when you die.
So you're saying that you can't be trusted to delete your character like you promised to do?
A random thought on PD, what if in a f2p game, you had to pay for lives. Maybe 5 dollars a life, it could even be in game currency actually. This way there would be a variety of players taking different levels of risks based on how much they are willing to put into the game. There would be players that want to play with 1 life, and so they play it safe, and there would be players willing to die for stupid reasons, playing a little more recklessly.
Or those who would want to play a little more recklessly will just not play this game, and go for something else with no PD.
I don't play recklessly at all and I wouldn't play the game at all, ever, under any circumstances.
I don't play recklessly at all and I would never NOT play a game because of a feature, ever, under any circumstance... I have an open mind.
A random thought on PD, what if in a f2p game, you had to pay for lives. Maybe 5 dollars a life, it could even be in game currency actually. This way there would be a variety of players taking different levels of risks based on how much they are willing to put into the game. There would be players that want to play with 1 life, and so they play it safe, and there would be players willing to die for stupid reasons, playing a little more recklessly.
Or those who would want to play a little more recklessly will just not play this game, and go for something else with no PD.
I don't play recklessly at all and I wouldn't play the game at all, ever, under any circumstances.
If they donated half of the price of a new life to start a children's charity?
Geez, we picked up trash along the highway just so a charity could have a sign and get a little advertisement , I would have much rather played a game for 5 minutes.
We all have different priorities and causes. You said under any circumstances.
I meant what I said. I play games for fun. Permadeath is not fun for me. Therefore I'm not playing, I don't care what ridiculous thing you want to attach to it.
Well I won't cut you down, if you don't think it's fun then you shouldn't play. But I do want to point out that it's not only permadeath that should decide for a person if to play this game or not. You can always try to survive forever, but of course that would be a challange. Some people find a challange fun, and that's what this game is. It's a hard brutal game, if you're unskilled you will have a hard time, you won't be able to go into the game and will be taken by the hand and lead through the game. If you're new you will feel like a new player, but that doesn't mean that you're worse then the others. You will still be able to kill a player that have been playing the game for a lot longer, since armor isn't everything (like other games) Of course this might be too much, and hey, it's new it haven't been done before so it might seem scary. But I do back it, as there is so many other things to this game (They plan to add dragons into the game as a playable race later down the line.)
Originally posted by Keushpuppy If you want perma death just delete your character when you die.
If you don't want it, play any of the 1000's of mmorpgs available.
Sure.
But since 99.99% of the games have no PD, he is just giving you a tip of how to enable PD if you really want it.
True but the purpose of permadeath is that you can't turn back where as 'simply delete your character' is a decision you make when you die which ultimately means, you don't delete your character unless you really commit to deleting your character when you die.
So you're saying that you can't be trusted to delete your character like you promised to do?
lol I guess if that is how you want to put it. If you tell yourself, i'll delete my character the next time I die' and then you die unexpectedly, are you really going to delete your character? Maybe for you but not for a lot of others.
What started as a good conceptual conversation is quickly devolving. A word to the wise... ignore the blind dissenters. How many times have we heard the "just delete your character" argument on this forum? We all know it holds no water. That's like saying "I don't like the 3-point rule" in basketball and somebody saying "then don't take 3 pointers." But just ignore these posts and continue the conversation, there's nothing to be gained from engaging these people, they're clearly not the target audience for this conversation, or any mature discourse.
I think the RPG moniker is actually harmful to permadeath MMOs because it brings with it a lot of baggage about slow, incremental character progression and gameplay that hinges brutally on character level, gear, and power. The primary narrative of most RPGs is the story, sure, but also the story of you accumulating great power as that story unfolds. The idea of pulling that rug out from under the player when viewed through that lens is of course anathema. We've seen the success of something like DayZ, a persistent world with a significant death penalty but no meaningful progression besides item grabs. I think it's worth taking that next step... what about something with progression, but where progression isn't everything? What about not making it a 1-and-done death system, but a number of deaths that better accounts for the realities of playing a game?
A random thought on PD, what if in a f2p game, you had to pay for lives. Maybe 5 dollars a life, it could even be in game currency actually. This way there would be a variety of players taking different levels of risks based on how much they are willing to put into the game. There would be players that want to play with 1 life, and so they play it safe, and there would be players willing to die for stupid reasons, playing a little more recklessly.
Or those who would want to play a little more recklessly will just not play this game, and go for something else with no PD.
I don't play recklessly at all and I wouldn't play the game at all, ever, under any circumstances.
If they donated half of the price of a new life to start a children's charity?
Geez, we picked up trash along the highway just so a charity could have a sign and get a little advertisement , I would have much rather played a game for 5 minutes.
We all have different priorities and causes. You said under any circumstances.
I meant what I said. I play games for fun. Permadeath is not fun for me. Therefore I'm not playing, I don't care what ridiculous thing you want to attach to it.
When you think about perma-death, what are you associating it with? Do you know any of the other features ToA has to offer?
Originally posted by Keushpuppy If you want perma death just delete your character when you die.
Some ways why permadeath server and deleting your char when you die are different things:
Gameplay A: Npcs are attacking your city, you and your friends are defending it.
You delete your char when you die: All your friends will be able to respawn to help your to defend your city.
Permadeath:People start again when they die and so you would have less reinforcements.
Gameplay B: A sandbox game that is like ultima online. You have a friend that is a very good blacksmith.
You delete your char when you die: This blacksmith guy will be able to help people again.
Permadeath: The world will lose a very good blacksmith, this guy will not be able to help you.
Gameplay C: Player A has a house and player B stay in this house with player A when he is there.
Player B delete his char when he dies: Nothing Happens.
Permadeath: He will not be able to enter house again, because player A will be dead and and because player B dont have the keys he will not be able to enter the house.
And all of those things are fine. Your control over a game stops at your character. If you want to play permadeath, you can only demand it for your character, you cannot demand it for anyone else. If you want the "permadeath" situations above, only play with friends who are similarly committed to offing themselves when they die. Otherwise, let people play the way they want to play. What do you care? You don't have a character anymore!
Those things means a game with permadeath is not just the same thing as just deleting your char when you die, as many guys here say.
Also, no one is demanding permadeath on everygame, if you dont like it, dont play. No one if forcing to play a game you hate. By your logic people are forcing you to listen to death metal, because they are releasing death metal albums. But death metal albums are a tiny % of all music released
"Why do you care, you dont have a charater anymore". On the situation C, I would have my char and the game would be different, same thing with situation B I said there.
Originally posted by Keushpuppy If you want perma death just delete your character when you die.
If you don't want it, play any of the 1000's of mmorpgs available.
Sure.
But since 99.99% of the games have no PD, he is just giving you a tip of how to enable PD if you really want it.
True but the purpose of permadeath is that you can't turn back where as 'simply delete your character' is a decision you make when you die which ultimately means, you don't delete your character unless you really commit to deleting your character when you die.
So you're saying that you can't be trusted to delete your character like you promised to do?
lol I guess if that is how you want to put it. If you tell yourself, i'll delete my character the next time I die' and then you die unexpectedly, are you really going to delete your character? Maybe for you but not for a lot of others.
The others obviously do not want to play a permadeath game so they are kinda irrelevant to this discussion. If you feel that permadeath will enhance your personal gaming experience then it why would you not delete your character after it dies? IT would be hypocritical not to do so.
Anyone can set the challenge of perma-death for himself in any game.
There are people doing it in games like WoW or GW2, for instance. The rules are based on "Iron Man", you can't use AH or crafting or trade with other players or your other characters, you can only use stuff looted or sold by NPC vendors, you can use gathering professions and sell the stuff to NPC vendors though, and if you die, you have to reroll, the idea being to get as high as possible with 0 deaths as proved by the in game stats of those games. Things like twinking with a higher level character of an second account or of a friend is of course strictly forbidden too. Grouping together with other Iron Men of similar level is permitted though (unless you want it even harder like I did, 100% solo).
I made it to max level in both games with those rules, after many tries and deleted characters. When you delete you can of course first send all the possessions to your "main" non-Iron-Man characters, so it's not a 100% waste and you make gold for your account.
Some people are just not imaginative enough to create their own challenges and need the games to hand them on a silver platter, when harder stuff is just there waiting for them.
Originally posted by Keushpuppy If you want perma death just delete your character when you die.
If you don't want it, play any of the 1000's of mmorpgs available.
Sure.
But since 99.99% of the games have no PD, he is just giving you a tip of how to enable PD if you really want it.
True but the purpose of permadeath is that you can't turn back where as 'simply delete your character' is a decision you make when you die which ultimately means, you don't delete your character unless you really commit to deleting your character when you die.
So you're saying that you can't be trusted to delete your character like you promised to do?
lol I guess if that is how you want to put it. If you tell yourself, i'll delete my character the next time I die' and then you die unexpectedly, are you really going to delete your character? Maybe for you but not for a lot of others.
I'm impressed by the thoughtful and eloquent arguments supporting this game's design. The counter arguments by comparison seem somewhat churlish. A game built with PD as one of its central pillars is an interesting concept and not something I've experienced before. If ToA can pull this off and draw in a solid, dedicated community then I'd be up for it. I hope it succeeds.
Originally posted by crack_fox I'm impressed by the thoughtful and eloquent arguments supporting this game's design. The counter arguments by comparison seem somewhat churlish. A game built with PD as one of its central pillars is an interesting concept and not something I've experienced before. If ToA can pull this off and draw in a solid, dedicated community then I'd be up for it. I hope it succeeds.
Thank you! Like I said, they're in Kickstarter right now trying to get crowd funding, so it needs backers before it can become a reality. I too hope they make it as I really want to try this game out.
Originally posted by Keushpuppy If you want perma death just delete your character when you die.
If you don't want it, play any of the 1000's of mmorpgs available.
Sure.
But since 99.99% of the games have no PD, he is just giving you a tip of how to enable PD if you really want it.
True but the purpose of permadeath is that you can't turn back where as 'simply delete your character' is a decision you make when you die which ultimately means, you don't delete your character unless you really commit to deleting your character when you die.
So you're saying that you can't be trusted to delete your character like you promised to do?
lol I guess if that is how you want to put it. If you tell yourself, i'll delete my character the next time I die' and then you die unexpectedly, are you really going to delete your character? Maybe for you but not for a lot of others.
So you answer to his question is "no"?
Before I address Nari, let me circle back to the start of this string of quotes. KeushPuppy uses the logic "If you like permadeath, just delete your character after it dies" and what I am saying is, people don't typically hold themselves to that when it actually happens because a) you're playing a game where there is no permadeath so there isn't anything really holding you accountable. You are free to change your mind and just click "Respawn" and do what you want. I honestly think you've got to be retarded to play a game where there is no permadeath and then try to make-believe that there is permadeath by using KeushPuppy's logic.
As for Nari - I never said I would play a game and delete my character after I die to try and pretend that perma-death is part of the game so i'm not sure why the question is even being asked? When I had said "I guess if that's how you want to put it", I was referring to people in general, not me personally.
Permadeath is a turn off because they compare it to the current games out there. WoW with permadeath would be horrible because it was not designed for it. We are so used to "How can I progress my character" that it is the only thing we are concerned about. WoW would be horrible with Skyrim style combat, but that doesn't mean Skyrim has horrible combat.
ToA, which was mentioned earlier, is designed around this concept. This game is not about individual progression, and a newbie can still experience the same content as someone who has been playing for a month. This game is about the enjoyment of the journey and progression as a community. Your character may permadie, but everything you have ever done with that character is still in the world, and all you have to do is create a new character to return to it and begin a new story.
Permadeath is not the main course. It should be the cheese on the sandwich. When it is in harmony with the other ingredients, you have a great sandwich in front of you.
I honestly think you've got to be retarded to play a game where there is no permadeath and then try to make-believe that there is permadeath by using KeushPuppy's logic.
I honestly think you've got to be retarded to play a game where there is no permadeath and then try to make-believe that there is permadeath by using KeushPuppy's logic.
I believe that is called 'role playing'.
That actually is not "Roleplaying" since roleplaying is something you do in the game with other people or you assume a particular role/personality in the game. The permadeath example is something outside of the game and not related in any way.
I honestly think you've got to be retarded to play a game where there is no permadeath and then try to make-believe that there is permadeath by using KeushPuppy's logic.
I believe that is called 'role playing'.
That actually is not "Roleplaying" since roleplaying is something you do in the game with other people or you assume a particular role/personality in the game. The permadeath example is something outside of the game and not related in any way.
Deleting a character is part of most if not all MMORPGs, just like creating a character, moving around or casting a spell.
The problem with perma-death is that as you say people are going to hate it and the rest of your gameplay better be incredible enough to stop people from rage quitting when they lose the character they've put hours and hours of work into. It's not going to be enough to say "our game is about the journey", the journey better be damned fun if you want me to start it over and over again.
People are going to die because of lag and computer problems or because they have to change their kid's diaper or a million other "unfair" reasons. It's an MMO. These things will happen. I'm not saying that it can't work. It's interesting that an MMO is actually trying it but I don't envy those devs because it's a big barrier to overcome in keeping players invested in your game.
Though you make good points I'll counter with "the people who would play this game will generally be on board with this system".
The problem with those who rail against permadeath is that they don't like it. So any response they give is one couched in "I don't like permadeath.
How imagine yourself as someone FOR permadeath.
In general you will not be from the standpoint of "OMG I COULD LOSE MY CHARACTER".
It won't be that big a deal.
Same with those who don't like ffa pvp or full looting or any number of game mechanics that seem harsh.
Do you think that those who stuck with dark souls railed against every death? Maybe a few but I would bet dollars to donuts that they took it in stride and just "tried again".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Keushpuppy If you want perma death just delete your character when you die.
I don't mean to be insulting but this is a ridiculous response.
The whole idea of playing a game is to be on the same footing as everyone else. It creates a sense of camaraderie, a sense of shared experience.
What you suggest is akin to two people starting at the bottom of Mt. Washington: one hikes up and the other drives or takes that trolley.
Why do you care about what total strangers do?
If you have friends, guildies, enjoying challenge (like this thread seems to indicate), they should have no problems joining you on the "hard mode" trek. There are guilds devoted to "Iron Man" mode in WoW.
My main problem with permadeath is that I don't get any excitement from it and it makes people cowards so PvP suffers. I have played my share of roguelike games and enjoyed many, but applying permadeath to a multiplayer game with advancement is just asking for a whole lot of trouble for no reason from my standpoint.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Comments
If you are not committed to losing your character when it dies, why are you even considering playing a peramadeath game? If you not willing to have your character deleted when it dies, you should be playing non-permadeath games.
I meant what I said. I play games for fun. Permadeath is not fun for me. Therefore I'm not playing, I don't care what ridiculous thing you want to attach to it.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
And all of those things are fine. Your control over a game stops at your character. If you want to play permadeath, you can only demand it for your character, you cannot demand it for anyone else. If you want the "permadeath" situations above, only play with friends who are similarly committed to offing themselves when they die. Otherwise, let people play the way they want to play. What do you care? You don't have a character anymore!
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
So you're saying that you can't be trusted to delete your character like you promised to do?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I don't play recklessly at all and I would never NOT play a game because of a feature, ever, under any circumstance... I have an open mind.
If your in the army and you want a purple heart medal just shoot yourself in the leg at boot camp.
Well I won't cut you down, if you don't think it's fun then you shouldn't play. But I do want to point out that it's not only permadeath that should decide for a person if to play this game or not. You can always try to survive forever, but of course that would be a challange. Some people find a challange fun, and that's what this game is. It's a hard brutal game, if you're unskilled you will have a hard time, you won't be able to go into the game and will be taken by the hand and lead through the game. If you're new you will feel like a new player, but that doesn't mean that you're worse then the others. You will still be able to kill a player that have been playing the game for a lot longer, since armor isn't everything (like other games) Of course this might be too much, and hey, it's new it haven't been done before so it might seem scary. But I do back it, as there is so many other things to this game (They plan to add dragons into the game as a playable race later down the line.)
lol I guess if that is how you want to put it. If you tell yourself, i'll delete my character the next time I die' and then you die unexpectedly, are you really going to delete your character? Maybe for you but not for a lot of others.
What started as a good conceptual conversation is quickly devolving. A word to the wise... ignore the blind dissenters. How many times have we heard the "just delete your character" argument on this forum? We all know it holds no water. That's like saying "I don't like the 3-point rule" in basketball and somebody saying "then don't take 3 pointers." But just ignore these posts and continue the conversation, there's nothing to be gained from engaging these people, they're clearly not the target audience for this conversation, or any mature discourse.
I think the RPG moniker is actually harmful to permadeath MMOs because it brings with it a lot of baggage about slow, incremental character progression and gameplay that hinges brutally on character level, gear, and power. The primary narrative of most RPGs is the story, sure, but also the story of you accumulating great power as that story unfolds. The idea of pulling that rug out from under the player when viewed through that lens is of course anathema. We've seen the success of something like DayZ, a persistent world with a significant death penalty but no meaningful progression besides item grabs. I think it's worth taking that next step... what about something with progression, but where progression isn't everything? What about not making it a 1-and-done death system, but a number of deaths that better accounts for the realities of playing a game?
When you think about perma-death, what are you associating it with? Do you know any of the other features ToA has to offer?
Those things means a game with permadeath is not just the same thing as just deleting your char when you die, as many guys here say.
Also, no one is demanding permadeath on everygame, if you dont like it, dont play. No one if forcing to play a game you hate. By your logic people are forcing you to listen to death metal, because they are releasing death metal albums. But death metal albums are a tiny % of all music released
"Why do you care, you dont have a charater anymore". On the situation C, I would have my char and the game would be different, same thing with situation B I said there.
The others obviously do not want to play a permadeath game so they are kinda irrelevant to this discussion. If you feel that permadeath will enhance your personal gaming experience then it why would you not delete your character after it dies? IT would be hypocritical not to do so.
Anyone can set the challenge of perma-death for himself in any game.
There are people doing it in games like WoW or GW2, for instance. The rules are based on "Iron Man", you can't use AH or crafting or trade with other players or your other characters, you can only use stuff looted or sold by NPC vendors, you can use gathering professions and sell the stuff to NPC vendors though, and if you die, you have to reroll, the idea being to get as high as possible with 0 deaths as proved by the in game stats of those games. Things like twinking with a higher level character of an second account or of a friend is of course strictly forbidden too. Grouping together with other Iron Men of similar level is permitted though (unless you want it even harder like I did, 100% solo).
I made it to max level in both games with those rules, after many tries and deleted characters. When you delete you can of course first send all the possessions to your "main" non-Iron-Man characters, so it's not a 100% waste and you make gold for your account.
Some people are just not imaginative enough to create their own challenges and need the games to hand them on a silver platter, when harder stuff is just there waiting for them.
My computer is better than yours.
So you answer to his question is "no"?
Thank you! Like I said, they're in Kickstarter right now trying to get crowd funding, so it needs backers before it can become a reality. I too hope they make it as I really want to try this game out.
If my undead panda's don't get you...
Before I address Nari, let me circle back to the start of this string of quotes. KeushPuppy uses the logic "If you like permadeath, just delete your character after it dies" and what I am saying is, people don't typically hold themselves to that when it actually happens because a) you're playing a game where there is no permadeath so there isn't anything really holding you accountable. You are free to change your mind and just click "Respawn" and do what you want. I honestly think you've got to be retarded to play a game where there is no permadeath and then try to make-believe that there is permadeath by using KeushPuppy's logic.
As for Nari - I never said I would play a game and delete my character after I die to try and pretend that perma-death is part of the game so i'm not sure why the question is even being asked? When I had said "I guess if that's how you want to put it", I was referring to people in general, not me personally.
Permadeath is a turn off because they compare it to the current games out there. WoW with permadeath would be horrible because it was not designed for it. We are so used to "How can I progress my character" that it is the only thing we are concerned about. WoW would be horrible with Skyrim style combat, but that doesn't mean Skyrim has horrible combat.
ToA, which was mentioned earlier, is designed around this concept. This game is not about individual progression, and a newbie can still experience the same content as someone who has been playing for a month. This game is about the enjoyment of the journey and progression as a community. Your character may permadie, but everything you have ever done with that character is still in the world, and all you have to do is create a new character to return to it and begin a new story.
Permadeath is not the main course. It should be the cheese on the sandwich. When it is in harmony with the other ingredients, you have a great sandwich in front of you.
I believe that is called 'role playing'.
That actually is not "Roleplaying" since roleplaying is something you do in the game with other people or you assume a particular role/personality in the game. The permadeath example is something outside of the game and not related in any way.
Deleting a character is part of most if not all MMORPGs, just like creating a character, moving around or casting a spell.
My computer is better than yours.
Though you make good points I'll counter with "the people who would play this game will generally be on board with this system".
The problem with those who rail against permadeath is that they don't like it. So any response they give is one couched in "I don't like permadeath.
How imagine yourself as someone FOR permadeath.
In general you will not be from the standpoint of "OMG I COULD LOSE MY CHARACTER".
It won't be that big a deal.
Same with those who don't like ffa pvp or full looting or any number of game mechanics that seem harsh.
Do you think that those who stuck with dark souls railed against every death? Maybe a few but I would bet dollars to donuts that they took it in stride and just "tried again".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't mean to be insulting but this is a ridiculous response.
The whole idea of playing a game is to be on the same footing as everyone else. It creates a sense of camaraderie, a sense of shared experience.
What you suggest is akin to two people starting at the bottom of Mt. Washington: one hikes up and the other drives or takes that trolley.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Why do you care about what total strangers do?
If you have friends, guildies, enjoying challenge (like this thread seems to indicate), they should have no problems joining you on the "hard mode" trek. There are guilds devoted to "Iron Man" mode in WoW.
My computer is better than yours.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky