"We watched the replay videos of how the gamers performed and saw that many did not understand simple concepts like bottomless pits. Around 70 percent died to the first Goomba. Another 50 percent died twice. Many thought the coins were enemies and tried to avoid them. Also, most of them did not use the run button. There were many other depressing things we noted but I can not remember them at the moment."
I vaguely remember playing Super Mario back in the 90s for the first time and I did all those things until someone explained to me how the game was played. Also the controller confused me since up to that point I was used to joysticks as my controller.
I can definetly see how people not used to that style of platformer games would have trouble when playing the game for the first time. All this proves is that they chose normal people for this test and not experienced platform gamers.
Yeah but controllers have gotten MORE complex since then.
I can definetly see how people not used to that style of platformer games would have trouble when playing the game for the first time. All this proves is that they chose normal people for this test and not experienced platform gamers.
It is not as if having the hand-eye co-ordination or train to play an ancient platform game is anything important.
Personally i will admit i probably can't play such a game well, and i don't think it is worth my time to train for it. It is not like playing an ancient mario game is as important as learning math or riding a bicycle.
If by change you mean the reason why older gamers don't like these new MMOs, it has got nothing to do with the change in design or gameplay.
We old timers (i'm 37) used to play a lot harder and challenging games than there is even in existence these days. A few months ago there was this post i read in Facebook:
"This year, around 90 percent of the test participants were unable to complete the first level of Super Mario Brothers."
This was one of my first games i played when i was young, not even in my teens. The game was not too hard, i played it through many times for the second round, when it was harder. And today's gamers can't figure out even the basics?
"We watched the replay videos of how the gamers performed and saw that many did not understand simple concepts like bottomless pits. Around 70 percent died to the first Goomba. Another 50 percent died twice. Many thought the coins were enemies and tried to avoid them. Also, most of them did not use the run button. There were many other depressing things we noted but I can not remember them at the moment."
Some time ago a gaming company in my country was sold for 1.2 billion euros. They have two well known mobile games, and for that reason the japanese company was eager to pay 1.2 billion euros for it. I wouldn't play either of them even for free, let alone to pay something to DL it to my mobile phone or tablet; a device that reminds me of those Game & Watch Nintendo games we used to play in early 80'.
So, if i'm used to do stuff in intermediate or hard level of difficulty, don't blame me if i can't adapt to do it again in easy mode. It's not because i'm old, but because i find it boring and pointless.
The bit about players suggesting Super Mario Brothers needed voice acting had me in tears. I am not at all surprised that todays gamers could not manage even the first the level. Today gaming is like taking candy from your console and a sense of achievement has been replaced by a badge you get every ten minutes for still playing the game.
The bit about players suggesting Super Mario Brothers needed voice acting had me in tears. I am not at all surprised that todays gamers could not manage even the first the level. Today gaming is like taking candy from your console and a sense of achievement has been replaced by a badge you get every ten minutes for still playing the game.
Good.
The illusion of achievement is done with much LESS time requirement than before. People can have more fun in a shorter period of time.
Wasting hours practicing just to get through a level .. is not my idea of good entertainment.
The bit about players suggesting Super Mario Brothers needed voice acting had me in tears. I am not at all surprised that todays gamers could not manage even the first the level. Today gaming is like taking candy from your console and a sense of achievement has been replaced by a badge you get every ten minutes for still playing the game.
Good.
The illusion of achievement is done with much LESS time requirement than before. People can have more fun in a shorter period of time.
Wasting hours practicing just to get through a level .. is not my idea of good entertainment.
Except it's not the same illusion. You were accomplishing something back then and you're accomplishing something now. The difference is you're accomplishing less now and that, by definition, makes it less of an accomplishment. You can be glad that games are easier now, but don't act like you're getting the same thing out of it.
Originally posted by Scot The bit about players suggesting Super Mario Brothers needed voice acting had me in tears. I am not at all surprised that todays gamers could not manage even the first the level. Today gaming is like taking candy from your console and a sense of achievement has been replaced by a badge you get every ten minutes for still playing the game.
And for $10 you can get a sticker for that badge from the cash shop!
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by Scot The bit about players suggesting Super Mario Brothers needed voice acting had me in tears. I am not at all surprised that todays gamers could not manage even the first the level. Today gaming is like taking candy from your console and a sense of achievement has been replaced by a badge you get every ten minutes for still playing the game.
And for $10 you can get a sticker for that badge from the cash shop!
Yeah .. and it works magic with whales .. hence there is a lot of free fun for everyone else.
Originally posted by Scot The bit about players suggesting Super Mario Brothers needed voice acting had me in tears. I am not at all surprised that todays gamers could not manage even the first the level. Today gaming is like taking candy from your console and a sense of achievement has been replaced by a badge you get every ten minutes for still playing the game.
And for $10 you can get a sticker for that badge from the cash shop!
Yeah .. and it works magic with whales .. hence there is a lot of free fun for everyone else.
I am going to go with the president of Ninendo on this one as I think he has a better eye on the MMO ball than you do. You can dress it up how you like Nari but It is sad as he said, quite sad.
I am going to go with the president of Ninendo on this one as I think he has a better eye on the MMO ball than you do. You can dress it up how you like Nari but It is sad as he said, quite sad.
I am going to go with the president of Ninendo on this one as I think he has a better eye on the MMO ball than you do. You can dress it up how you like Nari but It is sad as he said, quite sad.
Nintendo? What MMO have they make?
As usual you miss the point entirely. President is saying today's dumbed down games are creating dumbed down gamers.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
The bit about players suggesting Super Mario Brothers needed voice acting had me in tears. I am not at all surprised that todays gamers could not manage even the first the level. Today gaming is like taking candy from your console and a sense of achievement has been replaced by a badge you get every ten minutes for still playing the game.
Good.
The illusion of achievement is done with much LESS time requirement than before. People can have more fun in a shorter period of time.
Wasting hours practicing just to get through a level .. is not my idea of good entertainment.
Except it's not the same illusion. You were accomplishing something back then and you're accomplishing something now. The difference is you're accomplishing less now and that, by definition, makes it less of an accomplishment. You can be glad that games are easier now, but don't act like you're getting the same thing out of it.
Except neither one of those achievements really mean anything. I don't really think that because I kicked ass on the original Metroid or Mario that I've got something going on or that it means anything at all. I don't play new games and think, oh my old accopmplishments were so awesome and I was so awesome because of it. Either a game is fun or it's not.
I certainly wouldn't want to play the same old thing over and over. There is still plenty of challenge to gaming and gaming is more than just challenge to me. The early games were one-dimensional and that's all they really offered. There is nothing wrong with that, but it also doesn't invalidate what current games offer.
If accomplishing something in a game means nothing, then why have any kind of adversity in gaming? Why not remove ALL difficulty from games? To claim that difficulty in video games doesn't matter is basically to claim that nothing in games matters. And if that's the case, why are you playing games? In reality humans enjoy accomplishing things and so having difficult games means you've accomplished more.
The question is how much is too much. At some point too much difficulty would ruin a person's experience. The appropriate level of difficulty will vary from person to person and it will also vary by current standards. We're saying developers have lowered the bar in an attempt to make gaming a more casual experience. Games are more casual.
Originally posted by Scot I am going to go with the president of Ninendo on this one as I think he has a better eye on the MMO ball than you do. You can dress it up how you like Nari but It is sad as he said, quite sad.
Nintendo? What MMO have they make?
As usual you miss the point entirely. President is saying today's dumbed down games are creating dumbed down gamers.
There are a couple points here.
1. Scot said the president of Nintendo knows more about mmos than a consumer mmo player. That puts questioning the reference in fair game. You didn't address that. Do you think the president of Nintendo has a firmer pulse on and a better understanding of the mmo sub-genre than the rest of us? How so?
2. Nintendo is a horrible reference and example to use in my opinion. They've devolved into a resuse and recycle game publisher. They rehash, remake, and reskin games now. They don't make new stuff anymore. They pissed away the one good thing they had with RARE. So of course he's going to say the old play style is better. It may or may not be, but he has a biased interest in reselling his rehashed crap. Nintendo and its president should be ashamed of what they've done to that company and he's not someone whose opinion I would take to heart.
You're more than welcome to eat up whatever he's tossing out, but I don't feel obligated at all.
yeah ... whatever the president of nintendo is saying .. is more like sour grapes. They just have a horrible quarter, and the wii U is flopping horribly.
And i am sure dissing your customers is the greatest way to sell more games ... not.
yeah ... whatever the president of nintendo is saying .. is more like sour grapes. They just have a horrible quarter, and the wii U is flopping horribly.
as I already posted
the nintendo president never made that claim -- it came from a satire site
I'm guessing the topic has gone on to content being "dumbed" down.
Games seemed harder back in the day because I couldn't save. I had lives. If I lost them I had to start at the beginning time after time.
Yeah .. more tedium, and more chores to do in a game does not equate "harder".
I remember using graph paper to draw maps for Might and Magic. It is not hard. It is easy but tedious. I am glad i am not forced to do that anymore.
Forcing you to go back to the beginning of a level in oldschool games made you a more precise and accurate gamer. I see kids playing games nowadays going out into the middle of a firefight guns blazing because... why not? If you die you'll just respawn 10 seconds earlier. It cheapens the experience.
EDIT: By the way, making you start at the beginning of a level isn't simply tedium. It means you have to complete multiple difficult tasks in a row rather than letting you complete one, fail 10 times at another until you complete that, and so on.
I'm guessing the topic has gone on to content being "dumbed" down.
Games seemed harder back in the day because I couldn't save. I had lives. If I lost them I had to start at the beginning time after time.
Yeah .. more tedium, and more chores to do in a game does not equate "harder".
I remember using graph paper to draw maps for Might and Magic. It is not hard. It is easy but tedious. I am glad i am not forced to do that anymore.
Forcing you to go back to the beginning of a level in oldschool games made you a more precise and accurate gamer. I see kids playing games nowadays going out into the middle of a firefight guns blazing because... why not? If you die you'll just respawn 10 seconds earlier. It cheapens the experience.
That's why PvE should get nudged, PvE easily cheapens the experience as your catering to the lowest common denominator.
I'm guessing the topic has gone on to content being "dumbed" down.
Games seemed harder back in the day because I couldn't save. I had lives. If I lost them I had to start at the beginning time after time.
Yeah .. more tedium, and more chores to do in a game does not equate "harder".
I remember using graph paper to draw maps for Might and Magic. It is not hard. It is easy but tedious. I am glad i am not forced to do that anymore.
Forcing you to go back to the beginning of a level in oldschool games made you a more precise and accurate gamer. I see kids playing games nowadays going out into the middle of a firefight guns blazing because... why not? If you die you'll just respawn 10 seconds earlier. It cheapens the experience.
That's why PvE should get nudged, PvE easily cheapens the experience as your catering to the lowest common denominator.
I'm guessing the topic has gone on to content being "dumbed" down.
Games seemed harder back in the day because I couldn't save. I had lives. If I lost them I had to start at the beginning time after time.
Yeah .. more tedium, and more chores to do in a game does not equate "harder".
I remember using graph paper to draw maps for Might and Magic. It is not hard. It is easy but tedious. I am glad i am not forced to do that anymore.
Forcing you to go back to the beginning of a level in oldschool games made you a more precise and accurate gamer. I see kids playing games nowadays going out into the middle of a firefight guns blazing because... why not? If you die you'll just respawn 10 seconds earlier. It cheapens the experience.
That's why PvE should get nudged, PvE easily cheapens the experience as your catering to the lowest common denominator.
huh?
Just implying I have a lot more challenging experiences in PvP in regard to combat. Also, IMO the dumbing down of PvE is cheapening the experience.
But it's the massive amount of players playing these games that make the games dumb, as they're asking for it.
I'm guessing the topic has gone on to content being "dumbed" down.
Games seemed harder back in the day because I couldn't save. I had lives. If I lost them I had to start at the beginning time after time.
Yeah .. more tedium, and more chores to do in a game does not equate "harder".
I remember using graph paper to draw maps for Might and Magic. It is not hard. It is easy but tedious. I am glad i am not forced to do that anymore.
Forcing you to go back to the beginning of a level in oldschool games made you a more precise and accurate gamer. I see kids playing games nowadays going out into the middle of a firefight guns blazing because... why not? If you die you'll just respawn 10 seconds earlier. It cheapens the experience.
That's why PvE should get nudged, PvE easily cheapens the experience as your catering to the lowest common denominator.
huh?
Just implying I have a lot more challenging experiences in PvP in regard to combat. Also, IMO the dumbing down of PvE is cheapening the experience.
But it's the massive amount of players playing these games that make the games dumb, as they're asking for it.
I see. Yeah it seems in general the hardest games are pvp games, especially ones with match making.
And I agree that there's a relationship between the size of the playerbase and the ease of the games. Look, casual gamers outnumber hardcore gamers. The industry knows what it's doing by making games easier; they're making games that are more accessible to casual players. The unfortunate side effect is that casual games will not, in general, yield the same amount of enjoyment/satisfaction. The more you invest into something, the more you'll get back. By making a game that is a less serious, more casual experience, that game is going to have less of an emotional impact on a player than one that is more serious and more difficult.
There is nothing wrong with playing a game just because it's fun. Candyland is a fun game, sincerely, but sometimes it's more fun to play chess. A lot of mmo's are now candyland because anyone can play, so they make what they know more people will buy. But this makes no sense because mmo's are modeled to be a big investment in a game that should last years, and when people get bored because the game is so easy, even if it is fun, it's just mmo companies shooting themselves in the foot.
I'm guessing the topic has gone on to content being "dumbed" down.
Games seemed harder back in the day because I couldn't save. I had lives. If I lost them I had to start at the beginning time after time.
Yeah .. more tedium, and more chores to do in a game does not equate "harder".
I remember using graph paper to draw maps for Might and Magic. It is not hard. It is easy but tedious. I am glad i am not forced to do that anymore.
Forcing you to go back to the beginning of a level in oldschool games made you a more precise and accurate gamer. I see kids playing games nowadays going out into the middle of a firefight guns blazing because... why not? If you die you'll just respawn 10 seconds earlier. It cheapens the experience.
First, you're painting a false dichotomy. There aren't only two extremes as the only options. Second, I don't think those games did make us that much better. It made us practice the timing over and over and over again, but every new level and every new game required us to jump through the same hoops and relearn the patterns. If it had a significant influence on our gaming abilities we would have wizzed through new levels or games much faster. That isn't the case. I do think it improved our overall dexterity a measure, but no more so than current platformers or action games do.
You say it didn't make us better and then at the end you say it did. Which is it?
And I'm not creating a false dichotomy. If anybody is, it's the person I was responding to. They say that having to start from the beginning of a level is tedious and doesn't make something harder. I say forcing you to complete the level flawlessly does make it harder, and more specifically it makes for better practice.
You seem to be taking an indefensible position here. If you have a game that only lets you advance when you've learned to play the level consistently, that is better practice than a similar game that lets you instantly retry a specific obstacle over and over until you get it right. By letting you retry something over and over and over (think COD respawning you 10 seconds before you die), you're more likely to be able to get through the level NOT on your own personal abilities, but on pure luck of just running through the obstacle or that part of the level.
Comments
Yeah but controllers have gotten MORE complex since then.
It is not as if having the hand-eye co-ordination or train to play an ancient platform game is anything important.
Personally i will admit i probably can't play such a game well, and i don't think it is worth my time to train for it. It is not like playing an ancient mario game is as important as learning math or riding a bicycle.
The bit about players suggesting Super Mario Brothers needed voice acting had me in tears. I am not at all surprised that todays gamers could not manage even the first the level. Today gaming is like taking candy from your console and a sense of achievement has been replaced by a badge you get every ten minutes for still playing the game.
Good.
The illusion of achievement is done with much LESS time requirement than before. People can have more fun in a shorter period of time.
Wasting hours practicing just to get through a level .. is not my idea of good entertainment.
The bit about players suggesting Super Mario Brothers needed voice acting had me in tears. I am not at all surprised that todays gamers could not manage even the first the level. Today gaming is like taking candy from your console and a sense of achievement has been replaced by a badge you get every ten minutes for still playing the game.
Good.
The illusion of achievement is done with much LESS time requirement than before. People can have more fun in a shorter period of time.
Wasting hours practicing just to get through a level .. is not my idea of good entertainment.
Except it's not the same illusion. You were accomplishing something back then and you're accomplishing something now. The difference is you're accomplishing less now and that, by definition, makes it less of an accomplishment. You can be glad that games are easier now, but don't act like you're getting the same thing out of it.And for $10 you can get a sticker for that badge from the cash shop!
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Yeah .. and it works magic with whales .. hence there is a lot of free fun for everyone else.
I am going to go with the president of Ninendo on this one as I think he has a better eye on the MMO ball than you do. You can dress it up how you like Nari but It is sad as he said, quite sad.
Nintendo? What MMO have they make?
As usual you miss the point entirely. President is saying today's dumbed down games are creating dumbed down gamers.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
seen at
http://www.nintendolife.com/forums/retro/majority_of_gamers_today_canrt_finish_level_1_in_super_mario_bros
p4rgaming is a joke site. Just so you know.
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EQ2 fan sites
If accomplishing something in a game means nothing, then why have any kind of adversity in gaming? Why not remove ALL difficulty from games? To claim that difficulty in video games doesn't matter is basically to claim that nothing in games matters. And if that's the case, why are you playing games? In reality humans enjoy accomplishing things and so having difficult games means you've accomplished more.
The question is how much is too much. At some point too much difficulty would ruin a person's experience. The appropriate level of difficulty will vary from person to person and it will also vary by current standards. We're saying developers have lowered the bar in an attempt to make gaming a more casual experience. Games are more casual.
yeah ... whatever the president of nintendo is saying .. is more like sour grapes. They just have a horrible quarter, and the wii U is flopping horribly.
And i am sure dissing your customers is the greatest way to sell more games ... not.
I'm guessing the topic has gone on to content being "dumbed" down.
Games seemed harder back in the day because I couldn't save. I had lives. If I lost them I had to start at the beginning time after time.
as I already posted
the nintendo president never made that claim -- it came from a satire site
other "news articles" from same site
http://www.p4rgaming.com/children-who-pick-a-side-in-console-wars-are-90-percent-more-likely-to-join-a-gang/
http://www.p4rgaming.com/white-house-report-confirms-more-americans-care-about-console-wars-than-actual-wars/
EQ2 fan sites
Yeah .. more tedium, and more chores to do in a game does not equate "harder".
I remember using graph paper to draw maps for Might and Magic. It is not hard. It is easy but tedious. I am glad i am not forced to do that anymore.
Yeah, tedium.
Exactly what I expect from mainstream AAA MMO's. Still fun tedious games out there but they are niche.
Forcing you to go back to the beginning of a level in oldschool games made you a more precise and accurate gamer. I see kids playing games nowadays going out into the middle of a firefight guns blazing because... why not? If you die you'll just respawn 10 seconds earlier. It cheapens the experience.
EDIT: By the way, making you start at the beginning of a level isn't simply tedium. It means you have to complete multiple difficult tasks in a row rather than letting you complete one, fail 10 times at another until you complete that, and so on.
That's why PvE should get nudged, PvE easily cheapens the experience as your catering to the lowest common denominator.
huh?
Just implying I have a lot more challenging experiences in PvP in regard to combat. Also, IMO the dumbing down of PvE is cheapening the experience.
But it's the massive amount of players playing these games that make the games dumb, as they're asking for it.
I see. Yeah it seems in general the hardest games are pvp games, especially ones with match making.
And I agree that there's a relationship between the size of the playerbase and the ease of the games. Look, casual gamers outnumber hardcore gamers. The industry knows what it's doing by making games easier; they're making games that are more accessible to casual players. The unfortunate side effect is that casual games will not, in general, yield the same amount of enjoyment/satisfaction. The more you invest into something, the more you'll get back. By making a game that is a less serious, more casual experience, that game is going to have less of an emotional impact on a player than one that is more serious and more difficult.
Not all who wander are lost...
You say it didn't make us better and then at the end you say it did. Which is it?
And I'm not creating a false dichotomy. If anybody is, it's the person I was responding to. They say that having to start from the beginning of a level is tedious and doesn't make something harder. I say forcing you to complete the level flawlessly does make it harder, and more specifically it makes for better practice.
You seem to be taking an indefensible position here. If you have a game that only lets you advance when you've learned to play the level consistently, that is better practice than a similar game that lets you instantly retry a specific obstacle over and over until you get it right. By letting you retry something over and over and over (think COD respawning you 10 seconds before you die), you're more likely to be able to get through the level NOT on your own personal abilities, but on pure luck of just running through the obstacle or that part of the level.