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Leveling is underrated
xDrac
Member UncommonPosts: 203
I mean honestly, so many people whine that there is no progression and nothing to do once you hit the cap. Having someone level is a really easy way of keeping people occupied and give them a goal to achieve. Because mostly, at least for me, after I reach the max. level and there isn't a whole lot of content... I just end up quitting. But if there is yet another level to reach... you will keep going. Know what I mean? Lets take a few examples, shall we?
How about Lineage II. It is a real grinder and leveling is (at least it used to be) awfully slow. That is a GOOD thing! Through the grind and slow leveling, you are forced to interact more, engage more in the community. Back then, you'd start grinding in a spot and while you did so you had time to chat and get to know new people. You would eventually party up and travel around together, grind together, become friends and stuff like that. And nowadays? What do we have nowadays? The quest grind, leading you from spot A to spot B and then to spot C etc. etc. and eventually maybe back to spot C again because guy at spot D is too lazy to go there himself, etc. etc. What the result of this is? You end up going where NPC's want you to go, not where you would like to go. I have no problems with quests, but nowadays quests tend to be the biggest source of gaining experience so why would anyone grind if there's a faster way, where you just have to run and kill a few mobs etc?
But anyways, the point is that leveling is a really easy way to make you feel like you progress. Maybe even the biggest? I mean, why else do people get so awfully bored after they reach the level cap? Because there isn't much else that would keep them going I guess. Now, if they had yet another level to reach, I believe they would keep going. Levels are like carrots that someone wiggles in front of your face. Look at Lineage II again, for example. It had equipment grades (<20 No-Grade, 20-39 D Grade, 30-51 C Grade, 52-61 B Grade... etc) so it was like "I need to keep going, reach the next level so I can reach the next equipment grade and get myself some better gear" you see where I'm going, don't you?
Another game, Cabal, for example. It had a lot of grinding there, right? Well, that was a good thing, once again! Because of the reason I mentioned above.
What is your opinion on this? Do you think leveling is good for a game, or bad? Do you think it is good for an MMO if everyone levels up fast, or do you think it is better if it was slow?
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Comments
Personally, I'm tried of leveling in MMORPG's as the only thing to do. It doesn't matter if its mob grinding or quest grinding or item grinding. IMO it's a waste of the genre to focused on grinding of any type vs. allowing players to experience the world how they like with others.
Why is that? Do you really level up in real life or progressively get better at what you do? Of course this is a game but really the idea of not having power platforms being silly or impossible is silly IMO.
Many RPG's are a mix of leveling to skills to combination. With MMORPG's we're stuck in an age of quest hubs. The quest hubs are the main reason why players are calling these games clones because it all becomes familiar once you do the same type of progression character to character game to game.
Yes it's easy to design a lvl based game. It also means the years they spend making all that content are a waste of space once you've lvl'd past it.
It's easy but short lived content.
I would guess you are against trinity also right? Last time I tryed game without trinity I promised myself I wont do that again. I like trinity, I like quests, I like levels and I would be happy if these things stayed even for another 100 years.
Didn't stop those grindfest games to be some the most played MMOs ever, though.
In some way I can agree with you OP. Playing a game there should be levels for players to learn how to play the game without those learnings it will be even more caos in the gaming.
Same as if your kids had no childehood,but at 3 month age went out having sex with your nabors vife and using drugs and stuff.
Im going to have to completely disagree on this one.
Just because levels have represented progress in the past, and is an easy way to structure progression in a game doesnt mean its the only way to do that, or the best way. The carrot on a stick method has been overused to a point where the players are tired of it, its like going to a magic show and knowing how all the tricks are done, so why do devs keep making the same type of games over and over and over.
I think the biggest problem in MMOs today is a lack of creativity. The same game mechanics are being copied and overused so much that there is no room for new things to be tried, maybe its because of the cost and effort that goes into making these games but anyways. The point is that there has to be other, more creative ways of giving us the illusion of progression that is different from the same old trick. Give us something else to figure out. We already know how every game is going to work, we start at level 1, "progress" through zones, get better gear, reach max level, start raiding...etc. Devs have to make a new formula for how we interact in the game world.
The games shouldn't be about keeping us occupied by dangling a carrot in front of us, they should be about having fun and meeting other players that have common interests.
On a side note, progression should come from player created goals and not necessarily from game mechanics. Why do people still play games like call of duty, halo, and league of legends if there is no traditional form of progression? Well besides the fact that they are fun games, the progression comes from the player wanting something out of the game, usually it has to do with being the best and the satisfaction they get from seeing their names on the leaderboards, some peoples goals stop at being the best among their friends, some other people want to be the best in the whole game, it doesn't matter, but the goals are set by the players, all the game is doing is providing the means to track your progress.
I'm pretty immune to the lure of leveling, I guess. I've had characters at max level and those at level 1 and had fun with both. The key is to enjoy the content at each stage and not worry about leveling. After all, its not as if the designers worked to make only the highest end content interesting. I've bounced around various games, played a while, and move on. When that game cycles back into my attention, I usually just like to start over and play around in content that I enjoy.
As a mechanism to encourage players to reach the highest levels and play the toughest content, the leveling mechanism works well enough to achieve the goal. It seems to me, though, that that lucrative end-game content that the game directs you to is frequently less of a reward in terms of 'entertainment' than it should be.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
In South Korea, yes. In the United States, no.
what if they made a game, that leveling is THE purpose of the game? and for the shake of discussion and having it easier to understand and accept the concept. what if there is NO leveling in the game?
But everything you do gives you some kind of bonus, and the more you do it the more powerful you become but not because u gain extra stats, but because u gain more "powers".
Do you like this concept? Because this is how the games will work in the future. Already the first mmo with this system is in development, and i believe more will follow.
I will not say which game because i dont want to be called a fanboi, because i am not. i just see potential in this system
The tip for
The win is
cooperation.
Yes, you do "level up" in real life. Infant --> child ---> teen-ager ---> adult
Yes, you do "level up" in real life. Newspaper boy ---> part-timer in a store ----> full-time job
Yes, you do "level up" in real life. Kindergarten ---> elementary school ---> high school ---> college ----> post-graduate school
Yes, people get better at what they do. You wouldn't like it if your doctor or lawyer only had whatever skills they had when they graduated med/law school. That's true for ANY profession that pays more than minimum wage.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
But whats your level? Your age?
I am not against leveling but its almost always leads the game being designed around leveling and not the world. Recently games are even worst where everything is instanced cheesing the world and making levels pointless because difficulty is the same 1-whatever.
The trinity isn't the end all. The trinity also weighs heavy on dumb A.I. that can "tanked"
If I was going to see a Dr, I'd rather he be on a skill based system than a level based one. any idiot can get to lvl cap :P
There always has to be a quantifiable way to progress, therefore there will always be levels in some sort. Period.
The only difference between now and then is that the spoiled "Generation Me" wants to level up instantly with no work whatsoever, which leads to games becoming fodder for content locust who do not appreciate the journey and instead want to level up to max immediately then complain there is nothing to do.
Don't like it? Go play FPS where you are all equal at start...oh wait a minute, even COD has levels now.
56. With 2 kids graduated from college and working full-time jobs, I'm approaching end-game with a smile on my face.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
Tangible progression that isn't just reliant on items is important in these games. It doesn't have to strictly be levels but it has to be something. I also like to be able to visit old content and see just how much I've progressed. GW2's system is a poor one imo though I'm fine with choosing to downlevel to do old content, it should never happen automatically.
welcome to the FPS version of the progression system, unlock everything and buy everything...
In CoD, you level up to unlock weapons, sometimes you got to get more kills to unlock extra parts (modern warfare 2 and 3?), or buy them via cash each and every round (black ops).
In BF4, you unlock weapons from points you contributed on killing, doing objectives, and so on, sometimes achievements-wise, and gain more points on that current weapon via more kills.
What's so special between FPS's and RPG's in a mmo scale? FPS people continue to play because they love the PvP aspect and won't get bored till they feel that repetitive on that particular gamemodes... then they move on to another gamemode or play something else, trying to not get so burned out on it.
I wouldn't have put a "period" there personally. I probably wouldn't have used to word "always" either.
Quantifiable progress is definitely appealing, but it is far from being the be-all and end-all of the genre.
The first game MMO with this system? Kinda sounds like you are talkin about Ultima Online...which also had this concept...
I'm not against leveling, but having a similar progression path in all games is not fun. Prolonging the leveling process doesn't make leveling any more fun either. Take Asheron's Call for example. Great game, pretty open ended and non-linear. Even the levels were mostly guide markers, but the leveling process was extremely long (in the earlier years). After awhile, there just didn't seem to be enough to look forward to, so leveling felt more like a chore than a journey to an obtainable goal. Actually, if the leveling process had actually been fun, there wouldn't have been nearly as many unattended leveling macro bots, as they plagued many areas and generally ruined the experience for many others. Which is one of the reasons why I left, and many others as well.
I enjoyed the leveling process in vanilla WoW, it was just long enough and had some decent challenges littered about to keep things fun without it being too easy or too grindy.
GW2 PvE leveling is atrocious, except for the noob areas. The events happen at a nice pace in the 1-15 zones, but there isn't the good pacing in the higher level zones. That makes those zones feel more dead than alive. I typically level any of my toons via WvW. Leveling to 80 feels mostly unnecessary as well, considering any level past 40 seems more like a minor upgrade than an actual boost in power. GW2 is about 40 levels too long.
FF XIV: ARR follows a similar path as WoW and GW2, but I found it to be terribly boring without the story quests to help along. FATE grinding is boring as hell and made me leave the game. There isn't enough traditional themepark quests to help augment the grindy aspect of FATEs.
Leveling in and of itself isn't bad or good, but rather how it's designed. I am really looking forward to see how well EQN plays out. No actual levels, but Tier systems for individual classes and the ability to mix and match class abilities to create your own multiclass combinations sounds very exciting. With a more flat approach, it should be easier for anyone to play with anyone else and help make the game more potentially social. Power won't be attached to a level number.
TL;DR: Leveling isn't bad, but the same approach to all games is. Furthermore, unless there is inherent fun built into a leveling system, it becomes more of a chore than a delivery method of power and content.