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You think developers have run out of Ideas?
Soejckdswg
Member Posts: 338
seems like all the new games coming out with the exception of a few are making all fantasy genre games. is this the only style they know how to develop? or maybe they are copycatting a system that is proven to get accounts? seems to me the developers have a narrow minded view on what people want. i mean..i'm not trying to say that fantasy games are bad, they are good and a lot of people like them, but in my opinion there is a lot more out there than just fantasy, and since there is plenty of that maybe developers need to start looking at possibly pioneering other types of mmo's..
Ceasar
Comments
They just want to go the safe way. The way that will guarantee them money. Past fantasy games have been extremely successful so that's what the devs do. Make more fantasy games.
I know it sucks but there's nothing we can do about it as long as people continue to pay for the crap they dish out.
i agree with you..although i think the games are made well, its just they are a dime a dozen. there are a lot of other genre's that developers have only began to get into for example: EVE Online, or SWG which in the past was successful and still somewhat but i believe the industry is capable of more instead of dishing out the same plate with every new mmo..
Ceasar
I'm hoping that it's a pc power issue....
I'm hoping they have ideas coming but are waiting for processing power, bandwidth issues to be improved on for the "next generation".....at least we can hope.
I agree...need more genres...
Sci-fi does ok if they don't let SOE make it.
Faxx
EX- SWG player
Developers have lots of ideas :P
Publishers just don't want to take the risk of losing money
Seeing as WOW did well i don't expect much change too.
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Don't click here...no2
I think Webzen is really onto something with SUN. They're introducing console style gameplay into the mmorpg genre, without massive system requirements for smooth gameplay. Perhaps it'll redefine how the fantasy genre is viewed. Its anyones guess at this point. But the Koreans that are playing it now really seem to be enjoying the dynamics its presenting. I think it could be one of the markets heaviest hitters yet.
You can read more about it in this interview with Webzen's producer. I highly recommend reading it.
Fantasy Shmantasy.
Anarchy Online has exactly the same thing, except they dont practice magic, they're NANO-MAGES. Lame....
The only games that really break the mold are indie or small developers. But they don't have the funds to make the game to as large of a scale as some of their competitiors. With that said, there are quite a few unique games out there that are fantastic for their target audience. But most of these games are either "love 'em" or "hate 'em" and not "I like it just enough to pay" which reaches a more massive audience. A few well done titles with still currently unique premises are:
Eve Online
Shot Online
A Tale in the Desert II
Ultima Online
Now, there are games out there that offer some unique capabilities such as Ryzom, Camelot, and ShadowBane. But I think the concept of grinding for experience is what really makes most MMOs feel the same. The titles above are about enjoying the game world and push grinding to the backseat. I feel that's the key factor in making an MMO unique.
Very true.Fact remains trying something new is very risky.Copying and "improving"(since its easier that way to correct something then make a revolutionary change) is less risky and thus more profitable.
WoW is a perfect example.Slap pieces of other games together.Polish it .Slap a brand name and end results is many millions of $$$$.
I agree that the only companies that may try new ideas will be small named companies that have to be out of the ordinary to compete with brand names.
It is true that most games that advertise as "innovative" or "next generation MMORPG" but instead they just offer polished versions of previously developed ideas. Theme is not the matter, the most important thing is gameplay.
There are a few sci-fi games, like EVE, Anarchy Online, SWG and Neocron and there's quite a few titles to be released: Star Trek Online, Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa, Fallen Earth to name a few.
In any case, I think there's two games that will be released in the future that will be the "prologue" to the actual next-gen MMORPG games. In my opinion, these two games will be the shift of the MMOG market to new territories:
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes will be the pinnacle of the old generation. While at the first glance it seems as an EQ clone, there's quite much more in its gameplay, though their ideas are not original.
Tabula Rasa might be the most important release that will inspire the next-gen MMORPGs of the future, due to the extreme effects of player action in the virtual world, through an ever-shifting PvE conflict and Richard Gariott's intent to make the game really innovative.
Currently playing:
* City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant.
* City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
If you all think it's that easy to think of something cool why don't YOU think of something?
My idea: A game with a physics engine that is a simulation of the real world.
You can design your own tools there and your own movements...
A little strange you may say? Well not if you are a computerprogram in a giant internet, trying to survive.
CLICK HERE TO GET A LIST OF FREE MMO LISTS!!!
there are many types of genre's you can go with...personally i think it would be cool to have a western genre..you can be a gunfighter/weaponsmith/rancher/cattle rustler/pioneer stuff like that would be awesome...ride horses would be cool...be in the calvary...of course there are many to ventures to be discovered in space mmo's some of which are already implemented in eve, which is good..i think eve stays on top of things...a real world like you said i'm not sure if that would be enough to entice me to play that...i think people play games to escape the real world..lol...but that is just one idea i had today...a western mmo..heheheh...
Ceasar
DEV'S are not out of ideas... they are running the fantaasy genre into the ground though. But since that genre has made so much money in the past that is what they are told to do.
Not to toot EVE'S horn ... but that seems to be the best developed and supported game done.
There is bigger games but none as old as EVE that has made a true effort to keep thier game alive and kicking... look at blizzard... they will keep WOW supported and will update for awhile then they will move on to thier next big game to DEV..... and WOW will slowly degrade.
SOE's treatment of SWG is another example of big name companies not really giving a rip about supporting a game (latest news aside), what do they care about SWG? They only made an attempt to make it better after EQ2 did not meet thier sales expectations (Yes EQ2 is a good game, but WOW kicked it's butt in sales, though I believe EQ2 to be the better game)
Indie's have a great deal of creative freedom but do not have the money to devote to really marketing and trying to equal the graphics and content of the bigger companies.
Give a good indie a tenth of the money spent on WOW or EQ2 and he will give you a game that will kick everyone's butt ... IMHO.
I may be talking out of my butt .... that's what I believe.
CREATIVITY & ORIGINALITY is being cost evaluated out of a lot of games .......
Witty saying to amuse you goes here.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
LordMagnus has the right idea, the developers are making games that companies hire them to make. And those companies are funded by VC's and the stockholders, and owe it to them to turn a fast buck. VC's always go the safe route, and always will. They want to be the second guy in the great new field, not the first because that poses way too much risk of a complete failure. All these games we see coming out are tried-and-true formulas, all remakes of EverQuest or WoW (Which is, in a way, a remake of EverQuest). The only real example for big-time sci-fi games is EVE Online and Planetside, the others just didn't make the cut so it isn't a rapidly exapnding genre.
~ Helios Isikari
~ Life Goes On
It's more a matter of lack of funding then lack of ideas I think. With the high and increasing competition the odds of getting a flop are increasing. As mmos cost a lot and take a long time to make, most people have to seek funding from someone. I imagine it is difficult to get funding if you stray to far from the mold. Most people funding just don't want to risk on anything that they feel is not going to do well. So we end up with a bunch of similar mmo's with only the rare innovation.
Anskier
It's funny you should bring up this topic at about the same time Gamespot puts up this article...
Bitter medicine: What does the game industry have against innovation?
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6141519.html
Of course this is coming from Gamespot, who made the bold (and very humorous) statement on their World of Warcraft video review that World of Warcraft is, "not this weirdly ambitious game trying to do all this crazy stuff." So which is it, are they for or against innovation and ambition?
I guess it all depends on if they're reviewing World of Warcraft or not.
BTW, if you want a good laugh, go watch the Gamespot video review on WoW and then watch the one on EQ2. Then wonder in your head if they're biased or not. They praise WoW for the things they put EQ2 down for. And I think everyone can agree which game between EQ2 and WoW is more innovative (hint, name me one innovative thing WoW does.) Oh and notice the dates that the same reviewer did the video reviews. They're 15 days apart from each other! Yeah, you can really get to know two MMO games that came out at the same time in that time period.
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</OBAMA>
Yeah, big publishers are chickenshits and retards always buy retreads. And yes, it does cost one hell of a lot-O-money to make AAA comercial games. But that's not saying that it can't or won't get done.
Believe it or not, it's not a bad time to be an indie developer. Why? Because gaming is in a slump and everyone is looking for unexploited holes in the market. If you're pitching that "illegal" street racing MMO or game about building pnuematic pumpkin launchers, now is a good time to be pitching to VCs. That's assuming that you're pitching to VC that aren't heavily vested in gaming already. Build it cheap and build it fast before someone else gets there and builds it first. The first to the line is usually (but not always) the winner. Keep the design simple and make sure that you don't have any compitition. Even if there was only one game made in the same genre, you're sunk if it sank. Thus skydiving and swamp buggy racing are out.
Innovation isn't dead, it's underground. Maybe when graphics technology levels out (I think we're just about there if we haven't reached it already) and we get a better funding model, Indie developers will be able to compete with the big boys. Until then, we're stuck playing the games of five years ago with the graphics of today.
I think what the issue really breaks down to - is that the game developing companies get pressure from their financial investors to stay simple within the realm of what's considered marketable rather than creative. The guys that are funding their projects are the ones that want to turn a quick profit and pressure their developers to crap out something generic that will sell. Microsoft is terrible about this and a perfect example would be Halo 2. Talk about an unfinished product rushed to the market in an effort to turn a quick profit.
Games like WoW are the epitome of generic titles. I'll probably get flamed by WoW fanboys for saying this, but I simply don't care. I've been playing MMORPGs since I was ten years old and when I played WoW I thought to myself, "This couldn't be any farther away from innovative." Blizzard followed a very simple equation in the production of WoW that, surprisingly enough, turned out 5 million + subscribers. That's a pretty scary thought, that something so simple with a touch of advertising would gain such a following so quickly. I suppose WoW's greatest strength is that it appeals to the average gamer more than anyone else in a sense that the game is very simple. WoW is one of the most generic MMORPGs I've played and nothing in particular stood out about this game. They simply renamed a few typical fatasy races and factioned them into two main sides to further encourage organized PvP. Then throw in some monotonous grinding with some crafting, ect. ect. and you have yourself a 5 million + subscriber game!
You will get flamed for challenging WoW. It's a given. But all you have to do to get them to fallout is ask them what innovative things WoW presented.
WoW took the best innovative things from the other games, polished them and applied sparkles and some paint and pushed them out the door. Their ideas are stuff that's all been done and repeated, just never consolidated. I guess some people don't find a problem with stealing. But no matter how much money you make, it's still a negative thing to do and that's going to get karma to kick that deal right back around and come two times stronger back on 'em.
I think that Viewtiful Joe should come into Azezroth and have a thing to say about WoW dabbling in his style.
Its not that developers have run out of ideas,
its just that developers never ever keep a certain theme or
tone to their game. Or the theme being unique and never done before.
Developers feel the need to add craploads of content,
yet that content is making the game feel more of the same
as another game.
And isn't anything fantasy if it isn't realistic?
I mean, you could have a medieval game with horses and stuff
but once you throw in undead skeleton soldiers and magic
it automatically becomes fantasy.
That goes for science fiction as well.
AO, SoR & SWG.
I think its just the graphical look of the game
that makes all the MMORPG's look the same.
Particularly the colours and the style that
makes the game look like a clone of another.
There is a crapload of ideas that developers could really use,
and i dont think they could ever run out of them.
I'd like to point out a few things. The first being that you can sprint to a goal or you can pace yourself. Way back when, investors generally bought into a project with an understanding that they were in for the long haul. Five to ten years was considered the standard by which an investment would pay for itself and the rest would be profit. Fast forward to today and you'll notice that everyone with capitol thinks they're in Vegas. They want the high pay outs RIGH NOW and they don't want to take risks to get them. Funny thing is, MMOs are made more for the long haul. Pitching an MMO like it was a traditional game is like selling someone an antique couch that they're only gonna use once and throw away. Single player games and console games are meant to cash in once, maybe more if they're lucky. An MMO can cash in for five or more years. The problem isn't so much the devs as it is the desire of investors for a quick buck rather than a long term investment.
Another thing to keep in mind is that gaming is an industry that runs on manpower alone. More than any other industry, gaming relies on the hard work and dedication of developers. Read a few professional game developement journals and you're sure to come across horror stories about seven day work weeks consisting of sixteen hour days, broken marriages, and depression brought on by fatigue. Everyone in the business knows that something has to give, and soon!! This is an industry with no raw materials to work with. Everything in a game has to be made by someone. Artists, musicians, programmers, voice acting, nothing in a game is as available in the same way that props for movies would be. That's changing, but the prefab object market is mainly catering to the indie scene right now. Filling a AAA game with prefabs would make it look to generic so big studios use in-house artists and animators to make everything in the game. If it wasn't for the fact that these people need to be fed, you could make a game practically, for free.
Yes, it's possible to get a group of friends together and crank out something like Curator Defense, or Cholo on a budget of absolute zero. But professional games need to pay the people involved in the project and, right now, the turn over rate is ungodly. It's hard to remain creative when you're burned out and you haven't seen you loved ones (or the outside world) for months.
Heh. Blackbeard should be here...
I'm all about Pirates.
The Queen Anne is our Revenge...
However, your statement lacks honour... Not to mention soul.
Pirates are Pirates. GOONIES!
Cartman has a big fat ass!
Not that they have run out of ideas it goes back to what is marketable at this time
Besides the ability to implement well what they did come up with. We have seen now products with fewer bugs issues and we want to play those games and just not willing to put up with several years of paid beta in many cases any more .