You'll have to go to other platforms or indie games if you want to play.
Zynga might as well be making these games. At least there is so many of them, if you don't like the look of a login screen, quit and move on. You don't have to put up with a misspelled word in a patch note if you don't want to.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Stop being an artist. Seriously. I an a entry level developer. There are too many artists and many artists have over-inflate how much they are actually worth. And seriously, the work is degrading, you're gonna spend hours making a damn tree that nobody gives two shits about in a video game.
Find another way to make money.
With regards to your MMO points, get over it. Before the introduction of "real money transactions" in MMORPGs here there was another currency of finite value: time. Back when we were younger, in the days of Lineage 2, , Final Fantasy XI, Ragnarok Online and other "old school MMOs, we had more time. As we grew older, the amount of time we had to invest in MMOs diminished. Many of the original "old school" MMO players have made $$$ (cha-ching) using the time they had to play MMOs in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody plotted a graph with the average income of MMO players from 2000 till now and we see a linear increase much greater than inflation. Less QQ, more play play.
It seems you have chosen (and it is understandable) only those things for critique you for some reason kind of resonated with, and actually have prepared advise for.
You didn't say anything we all do not know. But, you know, read OP again, it was not about money at all.
It is about: "life is short and brutal, and why we all do not need to put up in a game with all that bullshit we are already fed up in real life.
There are obviously some "rich" vs "poor" issues in the OP.
What is wrong with that?
I live in US, but tell me: have you ever seen obnoxious, arrogant selfobserved poor person?
You see them all the time in the f2p vrs p2p threads. They're the ones who think $15 makes them someone special.
Looks like they are special to you. They've made quite an impression it seems.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
But, you know, read OP again, it was not about money at all.
Actually, if you're familiar with Elikal, it is entirely about money.
"But now we have money aristocracy. Suddenly the poor in RL are poor in the games too! And the rich are having titles, castles and endless boni. Just as in RL. And tbh... I hate that."
That's a running theme in many of his posts lately.
I do not know Elikal. May be it is a running theme in many of his posts lately.
I have read his post and was trying to judge it without bias. I have found the statement of some bad Omens in it.
It is not very good even in real world to let money to rule the world without limitations. It is even worst to have no escape from it even in game world.
It seams not that bad for now. But fool is the one, who doesn't look in a future.
However, the whole artist cleaning toilets in two different fast food joints thing is poor choices made on your part. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with peppering this into your rant. You are poor because you chose to be an artist, nothing else.
You have three choices:
1. Stop playing games and focus on gaining a real skill that people will pay you for.
2. Lobby your government to subsidize gaming for poor people.
3. Find a sugardaddy.
Greedy business practices will not change and will only get worse. Plan accordingly.
However, the whole artist cleaning toilets in two different fast food joints thing is poor choices made on your part. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with peppering this into your rant. You are poor because you chose to be an artist, nothing else.
You have three choices:
1. Stop playing games and focus on gaining a real skill that people will pay you for.
2. Lobby your government to subsidize gaming for poor people.
3. Find a sugardaddy.
Greedy business practices will not change and will only get worse. Plan accordingly.
Err I didn't write that. o.0
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
However, the whole artist cleaning toilets in two different fast food joints thing is poor choices made on your part. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with peppering this into your rant. You are poor because you chose to be an artist, nothing else.
You have three choices:
1. Stop playing games and focus on gaining a real skill that people will pay you for.
2. Lobby your government to subsidize gaming for poor people.
3. Find a sugardaddy.
Greedy business practices will not change and will only get worse. Plan accordingly.
Err I didn't write that. o.0
lol, correct.
I was thinking about what another poster said and got mixed up.
However, the whole artist cleaning toilets in two different fast food joints thing is poor choices made on your part. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with peppering this into your rant. You are poor because you chose to be an artist, nothing else.
You have three choices:
1. Stop playing games and focus on gaining a real skill that people will pay you for.
2. Lobby your government to subsidize gaming for poor people.
3. Find a sugardaddy.
Greedy business practices will not change and will only get worse. Plan accordingly.
Err I didn't write that. o.0
lol, correct.
I was thinking about what another poster said and got mixed up.
The advice is still sound though.
You see my point is: even if I was rich I'd hate these changes in MMOs. They do bad things. Period. It would not hurt me personally so much but it still would transform games into something I dont want them changed.
And I am NOT discussing my private life here. Period.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
If I make games, why do I want to make games for people that can barely manage to pay me $15 monthly instead of people that are happy to pay $50+ per month?
I don't particularly enjoy microtransactions and I do like the $15 monthly model. However, my personal opinion doesn't matter. When a company is investing millions in creating a game, the balance sheets are what matter in the end. The investment needs to provide similar or better return than other investments the money could have been put into. If it doesn't, people are going to stop investing in game development.
Unemployed artist. Well that pretty much sums it up.
You are in a bad mood because you aren't feeling appreciated being without enough work. You very well may not be appreciated but one thing I know is that 15 bucks is not hard to come by if you really want it to get into a game where everyone is even. Now, your list of games is going to be smaller than the other side but that's intended isn't it. Why should a game company stop at 15 when you will pay 100. After you figure out the finances, your next complaint may be... I can't find any sub games anymore... we can deal with that later or pass you a paddle in our boat.
I think your problem lies in the finances right now so my suggestion is that you find a part-time gig that isn't what you want but affords you funds to live other parts of your life more enjoyably.
Don't think that I haven't taken my own advice either. During a rough time between office jobs I worked at 2 fast food restaurants right across the street from each other. I got two free meals a day (1 from each restaurant) which reduced my food budget and I got lots of exercise because I asked for the physical parts like cleaning that no one wanted to do. I did those physical things to burn off the fast food calories and to make time go quicker because I was working hard.
Stop making assumptions about my RL, you know nothing about that. I prefer to talk about games on this forum not my or anypne's private life.
You're the one who brought up your profession in your OP. It wasn't necessary to get your point across.
You see my point is: even if I was rich I'd hate these changes in MMOs. They do bad things. Period. It would not hurt me personally so much but it still would transform games into something I dont want them changed.
And I am NOT discussing my private life here. Period.
Oh no, I see what you're saying. This news with EQ:NL is crazy. People asked for this type of business though when they demand games go F2P. They get their money somewhere and to someone that plays MMOs for a hobby, a $15 sub is way cheaper than F2P.
Maybe this will make you feel better:
You have games you want to play, but have no money.
If I make games, why do I want to make games for people that can barely manage to pay me $15 monthly instead of people that are happy to pay $50+ per month?
I don't particularly enjoy microtransactions and I do like the $15 monthly model. However, my personal opinion doesn't matter. When a company is investing millions in creating a game, the balance sheets are what matter in the end. The investment needs to provide similar or better return than other investments the money could have been put into. If it doesn't, people are going to stop investing in game development.
Because they can't make a game worth 50 dollars a month. They can however get that from the hardcore, who need other people playing a role.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
You see my point is: even if I was rich I'd hate these changes in MMOs. They do bad things. Period. It would not hurt me personally so much but it still would transform games into something I dont want them changed.
And I am NOT discussing my private life here. Period.
Oh no, I see what you're saying. This news with EQ:NL is crazy. People asked for this type of business though when they demand games go F2P. They get their money somewhere and to someone that plays MMOs for a hobby, a $15 sub is way cheaper than F2P.
Maybe this will make you feel better:
You have games you want to play, but have no money.
I have money, but no games I want to play.
The rich and poor both lose.
Your right, people did ask for this type of model becaues it lets them choose how to play. They spend as much or as little as they want. The people can choose how they want to play and pay, and the company breaks the $15 dollar ceiling barrier.
IMO they both win.
The OP is however incorrect. It has never been just pay one fee and everyone is equal. Even if we ignore the black market gold selling powerleveling, the devs/publishers themselves sold Collectors editions, early access, and expansions all meaning they charge you more money and the customers got more.
Pretty much like every other service based industry.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Look, the point is this: Back in Everquest II I became noble and "Sir" Elikal after years of hard work IN THE GAME. I did a lot of status quests for my guild. Now in EQ Landmarks you BUY a title for $90. THAT is what is plain wrong, because games SHOULD NOT BE about how much money you have, but how good, patient and dedicated IN the game you are.
Being able to BUY all that stuff makes it worthless and ruins all sense of accomplishment!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You should be happy about this model of games. Other people who are willing to spend money for nothing else but fluff items and playing early are funding more of the game so your poor artist self doesn't have to pay as much. This model is saving you money, not costing you money.
This is such a complete non issue that people are trying to make into the end of the world because they like to complain about everything. Buying a founder title is no big deal, everyone knows it doesn't mean anything in game. Nobody is going to be impressed by his 'I donated money title'.
If I make games, why do I want to make games for people that can barely manage to pay me $15 monthly instead of people that are happy to pay $50+ per month?
I don't particularly enjoy microtransactions and I do like the $15 monthly model. However, my personal opinion doesn't matter. When a company is investing millions in creating a game, the balance sheets are what matter in the end. The investment needs to provide similar or better return than other investments the money could have been put into. If it doesn't, people are going to stop investing in game development.
It is kind of often mistake of game manufacturers - game players relationship interpretation. On long run it is a market dictatorship.
Game manufacturers depend on you as much as you depend on them. You are mistaken if you think most popular financial model is most profitable one. It is most profitable just for not very successful games.
And your personal opinion does matter. Just not alone.
One more thing: Nobody would be happy to pay $50+ per month if there will be a possibility to pay $15 with similar result.
If I make games, why do I want to make games for people that can barely manage to pay me $15 monthly instead of people that are happy to pay $50+ per month?
I don't particularly enjoy microtransactions and I do like the $15 monthly model. However, my personal opinion doesn't matter. When a company is investing millions in creating a game, the balance sheets are what matter in the end. The investment needs to provide similar or better return than other investments the money could have been put into. If it doesn't, people are going to stop investing in game development.
One more thing: Nobody would be happy to pay $50+ per month if there will be a possibility to pay $15 with similar result.
That's the part I wholeheartedly agree with. I'm looking at the f2p games and the p2p games and seeing the exact same quality, the same rate of updates, same level of service, both still have cash shops...yet one I can choose how I want to pay, if I want to pay at all, and the other has a minimum entry cost.
edit - to me there really is only one question.
1. Do I like that particular game?
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
You see my point is: even if I was rich I'd hate these changes in MMOs. They do bad things. Period. It would not hurt me personally so much but it still would transform games into something I dont want them changed.
And I am NOT discussing my private life here. Period.
Oh no, I see what you're saying. This news with EQ:NL is crazy. People asked for this type of business though when they demand games go F2P. They get their money somewhere and to someone that plays MMOs for a hobby, a $15 sub is way cheaper than F2P.
Maybe this will make you feel better:
You have games you want to play, but have no money.
I have money, but no games I want to play.
The rich and poor both lose.
Your right, people did ask for this type of model becaues it lets them choose how to play. They spend as much or as little as they want. The people can choose how they want to play and pay, and the company breaks the $15 dollar ceiling barrier.
IMO they both win.
The OP is however incorrect. It has never been just pay one fee and everyone is equal. Even if we ignore the black market gold selling powerleveling, the devs/publishers themselves sold Collectors editions, early access, and expansions all meaning they charge you more money and the customers got more.
Pretty much like every other service based industry.
Except, none of them made the game suck more. Escapism, with commercials. Hmm, Ill pass. (escapism isn't a word I created)
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
You see my point is: even if I was rich I'd hate these changes in MMOs. They do bad things. Period. It would not hurt me personally so much but it still would transform games into something I dont want them changed.
And I am NOT discussing my private life here. Period.
Oh no, I see what you're saying. This news with EQ:NL is crazy. People asked for this type of business though when they demand games go F2P. They get their money somewhere and to someone that plays MMOs for a hobby, a $15 sub is way cheaper than F2P.
Maybe this will make you feel better:
You have games you want to play, but have no money.
I have money, but no games I want to play.
The rich and poor both lose.
Your right, people did ask for this type of model becaues it lets them choose how to play. They spend as much or as little as they want. The people can choose how they want to play and pay, and the company breaks the $15 dollar ceiling barrier.
IMO they both win.
The OP is however incorrect. It has never been just pay one fee and everyone is equal. Even if we ignore the black market gold selling powerleveling, the devs/publishers themselves sold Collectors editions, early access, and expansions all meaning they charge you more money and the customers got more.
Pretty much like every other service based industry.
Except, none of them made the game suck more. Escapism, with commercials. Hmm, Ill pass. (escapism isn't a word I created)
Since it's all subjective. I don't think the newer methods have made the game suck more either.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The mmorpg forum is like one bad movie, stuck on repeat, i mean honestly. The OP's post, albeit slightly different, has gone from "why do people keep negatively reinforcing bad behavior by endorsing it with money" to "jesus OP, quit being poor. get more jobs so you can get more money, so you too can be rich".
Another thread on here is "SOE will hand select player created content, and sell it to other players". peoples responses? "Boy i sure am happy SOE is making money. We should all be so happy that SOE has found a way to monetize the game so well. Also, quit bitching about only receiving 40% of the money. You're lucky you even get anything, it IS their game after all"
I'm actually starting to wonder if MMORPG isn't just a website that is a secretly veiled hangout for high-income game companys, with as much fanboying/girling as some things get.
That aside, OP, it is what it is. You either spend a whole bunch to keep up or progress or participate, or you spend a few thousand hours playing it. Like this website's current buzzword phrase, "why would a company be created if not to farm money". I Feel for ya, OP, but it is what it is.
You aren't getting any thousand hours worth of items with the highest package. The problem is really posts like your own that are taking this so far out of proportion that it is just so hard to take them seriously. It is like people complaining about CE getting special items in AOC. Two weeks after release the items were completely worthless. It is like that with all games pretty much. You get some fluff stuff that everyone knows you just payed straight up cash to get and that is about it.
You aren't getting any thousand hours worth of items with the highest package. The problem is really posts like your own that are taking this so far out of proportion that it is just so hard to take them seriously. It is like people complaining about CE getting special items in AOC. Two weeks after release the items were completely worthless. It is like that with all games pretty much. You get some fluff stuff that everyone knows you just payed straight up cash to get and that is about it.
Yeah, but that was a pretty cool bow and rhino.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
You'll have to go to other platforms or indie games if you want to play.
Zynga might as well be making these games. At least there is so many of them, if you don't like the look of a login screen, quit and move on. You don't have to put up with a misspelled word in a patch note if you don't want to.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Looks like they are special to you. They've made quite an impression it seems.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I do not know Elikal. May be it is a running theme in many of his posts lately.
I have read his post and was trying to judge it without bias. I have found the statement of some bad Omens in it.
It is not very good even in real world to let money to rule the world without limitations. It is even worst to have no escape from it even in game world.
It seams not that bad for now. But fool is the one, who doesn't look in a future.
OP,
I agree with the examples you have made.
However, the whole artist cleaning toilets in two different fast food joints thing is poor choices made on your part. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with peppering this into your rant. You are poor because you chose to be an artist, nothing else.
You have three choices:
1. Stop playing games and focus on gaining a real skill that people will pay you for.
2. Lobby your government to subsidize gaming for poor people.
3. Find a sugardaddy.
Greedy business practices will not change and will only get worse. Plan accordingly.
Err I didn't write that. o.0
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
lol, correct.
I was thinking about what another poster said and got mixed up.
The advice is still sound though.
You see my point is: even if I was rich I'd hate these changes in MMOs. They do bad things. Period. It would not hurt me personally so much but it still would transform games into something I dont want them changed.
And I am NOT discussing my private life here. Period.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
If I make games, why do I want to make games for people that can barely manage to pay me $15 monthly instead of people that are happy to pay $50+ per month?
I don't particularly enjoy microtransactions and I do like the $15 monthly model. However, my personal opinion doesn't matter. When a company is investing millions in creating a game, the balance sheets are what matter in the end. The investment needs to provide similar or better return than other investments the money could have been put into. If it doesn't, people are going to stop investing in game development.
You're the one who brought up your profession in your OP. It wasn't necessary to get your point across.
Oh no, I see what you're saying. This news with EQ:NL is crazy. People asked for this type of business though when they demand games go F2P. They get their money somewhere and to someone that plays MMOs for a hobby, a $15 sub is way cheaper than F2P.
Maybe this will make you feel better:
You have games you want to play, but have no money.
I have money, but no games I want to play.
The rich and poor both lose.
Because they can't make a game worth 50 dollars a month. They can however get that from the hardcore, who need other people playing a role.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Your right, people did ask for this type of model becaues it lets them choose how to play. They spend as much or as little as they want. The people can choose how they want to play and pay, and the company breaks the $15 dollar ceiling barrier.
IMO they both win.
The OP is however incorrect. It has never been just pay one fee and everyone is equal. Even if we ignore the black market gold selling powerleveling, the devs/publishers themselves sold Collectors editions, early access, and expansions all meaning they charge you more money and the customers got more.
Pretty much like every other service based industry.
Look, the point is this: Back in Everquest II I became noble and "Sir" Elikal after years of hard work IN THE GAME. I did a lot of status quests for my guild. Now in EQ Landmarks you BUY a title for $90. THAT is what is plain wrong, because games SHOULD NOT BE about how much money you have, but how good, patient and dedicated IN the game you are.
Being able to BUY all that stuff makes it worthless and ruins all sense of accomplishment!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You should be happy about this model of games. Other people who are willing to spend money for nothing else but fluff items and playing early are funding more of the game so your poor artist self doesn't have to pay as much. This model is saving you money, not costing you money.
This is such a complete non issue that people are trying to make into the end of the world because they like to complain about everything. Buying a founder title is no big deal, everyone knows it doesn't mean anything in game. Nobody is going to be impressed by his 'I donated money title'.
It is kind of often mistake of game manufacturers - game players relationship interpretation. On long run it is a market dictatorship.
Game manufacturers depend on you as much as you depend on them. You are mistaken if you think most popular financial model is most profitable one. It is most profitable just for not very successful games.
And your personal opinion does matter. Just not alone.
One more thing: Nobody would be happy to pay $50+ per month if there will be a possibility to pay $15 with similar result.
That's the part I wholeheartedly agree with. I'm looking at the f2p games and the p2p games and seeing the exact same quality, the same rate of updates, same level of service, both still have cash shops...yet one I can choose how I want to pay, if I want to pay at all, and the other has a minimum entry cost.
edit - to me there really is only one question.
1. Do I like that particular game?
Except, none of them made the game suck more. Escapism, with commercials. Hmm, Ill pass. (escapism isn't a word I created)
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Since it's all subjective. I don't think the newer methods have made the game suck more either.
The mmorpg forum is like one bad movie, stuck on repeat, i mean honestly. The OP's post, albeit slightly different, has gone from "why do people keep negatively reinforcing bad behavior by endorsing it with money" to "jesus OP, quit being poor. get more jobs so you can get more money, so you too can be rich".
Another thread on here is "SOE will hand select player created content, and sell it to other players". peoples responses? "Boy i sure am happy SOE is making money. We should all be so happy that SOE has found a way to monetize the game so well. Also, quit bitching about only receiving 40% of the money. You're lucky you even get anything, it IS their game after all"
I'm actually starting to wonder if MMORPG isn't just a website that is a secretly veiled hangout for high-income game companys, with as much fanboying/girling as some things get.
That aside, OP, it is what it is. You either spend a whole bunch to keep up or progress or participate, or you spend a few thousand hours playing it. Like this website's current buzzword phrase, "why would a company be created if not to farm money". I Feel for ya, OP, but it is what it is.
You aren't getting any thousand hours worth of items with the highest package. The problem is really posts like your own that are taking this so far out of proportion that it is just so hard to take them seriously. It is like people complaining about CE getting special items in AOC. Two weeks after release the items were completely worthless. It is like that with all games pretty much. You get some fluff stuff that everyone knows you just payed straight up cash to get and that is about it.
Yeah, but that was a pretty cool bow and rhino.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre