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Found the reason why DFUW's performance is so horrible
kinghussien
Member Posts: 31
DF1's GUI was written in Java.
DFUW's GUI has been changed to SWF (Flash)
Claus did say the AV team working on DFUW was inexperienced. I wouldn't doubt they went with flash cause no one knows C++.
A flash gui can be very taxing on the system especially in an MMO where the amount of players on screen can be anywhere from 1 to infinite.
Lots of console games use flash for the gui, but those games are heavily restricted!
Comments
Everyday i log in to check out mmorpg , there has to be at least 2-3 threads complaining about this game.
I played the game when beta started last year and yes there was some performance issues but nothing really unplayable.
I am beginning to think people like to complain just to sustain some nourishment for their own ego , which is depressing..
It has been over a year now , i have not played the game but i do think that in more somewhat a year , there have been performance improvements....
Now my only logical solution that i can help u whit , is that u should upgrade your dualcore or pentium or w/e 90's rig u are playing on to a more up to date rig.
Tired of people bashing this game left and right... get a life and do something productive whit your time instead of raging at a handful of people... don't like the game? stop whining and come whit up solutions instead of negativity left and right.
Have a great day.
LMFAO. You must be new around here. Me and many others have been posting suggestions and tons of feedback on how to fix their game for the past 4 years. They ignored everything. Completely ignored their community to work on this pile of garbage.
All of your previous posts are bash bash bash left and right av this av that , are u for real? did u even took 10 secs of your time to read and comprehend what i was trying to say ?
U are the definition of my text , a mirror whit a broken glass!
Obviously you didn't read my post and you still want me to read your posts? I almost never posted on these forums until recently when they decided to ban anybody who didn't have a favorable opinion of AV/DF2. There's only so much constructive criticism somebody can post till you realize AV ain't listening and your wasting your time writing wall's of text explaining to them why people are leaving the game!
Of course AV will be bashed. They've been developing Darkfall since 2001. I've been following DF since 2005. There is literally millions of suggestions and ideas on thier forums posted from 2001. If they've been working on DF for like a couple years, I would be more accepting of AV, but thats not the case here.
You will learn eventually that AV is a garbage co.
PS. I'm not going to 'just leave' because I don't like DFUW. DF1 was awesome. DF2 is garbage. Plain and simple. And we will be here until AV sets things right!
And this core design issue is one of the biggest overlooked flaws in dfuw. Just by looking at the gui and its features like the stupid radial wheel system you can tell for whatever reason they had console people design and implement the system for a PC game! It's just more stupidity and ignorance on the part of AV and tasos.
[mod edit] Why would you defend an obviously lacking gui made by someone from the console world in a pc game? The issue isn't my ability to use hotkeys for which only 16 are available....due to the stupid radial wheels and lack of hotbar but rather the fact that at the very core of the game a feature every single player uses was simply designed for consoles and not pc play in a pc game.
FYI I am sure I played this and the original at a higher competitive level than you could ever possibly hope to which allows me insight into the serious flaws and lackings. NOBODY at the elite level of play likes the gui period end of story.
TLDR Of course we adapted but that in no way means the gui is even marginally good or acceptable
The entire UI is awful, it has nothing to do with whining its about expecting a certain level of competence from a designer as well as the oversight and direction of those individuals preventing them from creating horrible systems.
The fact that you say it's about expecting something shows that it's not about how good or bad the UI actually it is. It's just another instance of people bashing something about that game because of expectations/promises/whatever else instead of just judging it objectively. The UI should not hinder your game experience at all, and yet people won't shut up about it.
In these days it isn't uncommon (to say the least) to use a Middleware named Scaleform to develop Game UIs. Just take a look at
http://gameware.autodesk.com/scaleform
and the referenced Games using it.
Further more: Flash is (like Java) a Bytecode Format for a JIT Compiler (just in time), so it isn't necessarily slower than Java (or bad native machine code for that matter).
IF DFUW is slow, then it probably doesn't matter which technics are being used, it's just a matter of general incompetence.
Okay I'm pretty unbiased when it comes to DFUW, played it for a week or so and it wasn't really for me. The point I want to make though is that UI can and should hinder someones game experience if it's not well implemented. Say there's a game that lets you carry 10 weapons, and you have to change through those weapons at a moments notice. Now instead of being able to press a key and pull the weapon out, the developer thought it would be a good move to just have a menu that you open that lets you flick through the weapons one at a time. Now you can master this, timing and planning ahead to switch through your weapons to get the one you need, but it would be annoying, clunky, time-wasting, and unnecessary. And, more than likely, a 10 yr old could probably think of a better system to use. So yeah, tiny UI changes can greatly detract from a game. And if people playing were expecting the developer to do something that works great and is incredibly easy to implement, they have every right to complain.
Yes I have a dream And its not some MLK dream for equality. I wanna own a decommissioned lighthouse And I wanna live at the top And nobody knows I live there. And theres a button that I can press, and launch that lighthouse into space.
My point wasn't that no UI imaginable can ruin somebody's experience but rather that the DFUW UI wasn't game breaking, it was just unintuitive. And when it comes to functionality, like in your example, it was fine.
[mod edit]
There is a highly specialized field called User Experience. UX for short. Median income is $96k. Top pay is $150k. A UX/UI designer/engineer's job is to make sure the User is having a splendid time using whatever software they are using.
Yes, a shitty UI can ruin somebody's experience with a piece of software. That's why tech companies hire UX engineers and designers to make sure that users experience with their software is not ruined.
Take 3DS Max. I learned Cinema 4D and realized that most game companies were using 3DS Max so I tried learning 3DS Max. 3DS Max UI is absolutely horrible. Everything is buried under menu's and submenu's and panels etc. C4D is so much easier to dive right in and to start modeling whatever you want!
You may not have as many qualms with the backpack UI or the UI in general, but you have to put yourself in a new players shoes. A new player, coming from games like WoW etc will quickly determine DFUW to be a CCC rated game simply because the UI is garbage. When they first start off, they don't have muvh stuff so no big deal. But wait until they have 300 pieces of mob gear to salvage and they have to put all of them into a single bag! If I didn't play DF1 and I ran into that problem, I would immediately demand a refund cause any coder with half a brain would be able to foresee a situation like that. The fact that a situation like that has been overlooked shows that AV is amatuerish in all aspects of game dev.
EDIT:
I get it dude. You are an optimist. You have faith in AV. Nothing wrong with that. But the fact that you have any hope in AV makes it pretty obvious that you just recently discovered DFUW! And don't make excuses for them, that they are an indie company and we should cut them some slack. They've been at this game development thing for over 12 years. Their community interaction is at zero! They deserve no slack. If they want their community to be less toxic, then they need to look within!
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
You haven't played in a long while and really have no idea what you are talking about admittedly.
Why would you post a message admitting you don't know what you are talking about and then bash people who have played recently?
It does have major performance problem (especially since the duelist patch).
Sieges have NEVER ran well, even in most of beta. It came out you basically cannot have an anti-virus installed if you want to play the game and have decent performance. Even with that a lot of people have random PING issues since the duelist patch that can make it unplayable (going from 20 ping to 3k your going to die A LOT while you are pinging out).
Its not people's PC as the problems occur with people in all ranges of PCs.
I hope you have a good day too. But you don't have any idea what you are talking about.
source?
Well to be honest the game has improved a lot since launch of the game I am still playing it.
The problem that I see could be improved is the DFUW.EXE that runs 3 times in you're processes, and memory usage Guild Wars 2 uses less memory at max graphics than DFUW and that is a problem. If they could improve this I would run 4 DFUW accounts instead of two and have enough memory to multi-task other games too.
Also I some-what hate the prowess grind to learn every craft in the game and be able to do combat doesn't do so great.
It's not just the UI that caused the failure of darkfall. It's a combination of everything about the game and it's development. My list of top ten mistakes made by AV would look something like this:
1. Lack of non pvp content in the game. Lets face it, Darkfall 1/UW are just combat arenas. They forgot to put the RPG in MMORPG.
2. Lack of sandbox features. The few existing sandbox features are poorly implemented. The biggest disappointments were the housing and cities.
3. Horrible client performance coupled with mediocre graphics.
4 . Non-Functional Economy
5. No penalties for murder.
6. The least fun grind that you will find in any modern mmo. Hours of hitting nodes to make one gear set. The quests (feats) are the worst seen in any game. The mob AI is terrible, and the rewards are minimal.
7. Lack of variety in roles. Where are the utility classes, and the indirect combat classes? Why is everyone a crafter?
8. Combat balance
9. Gear and Prowess are too much of deciding factor in fights. It should be about opening new options.
10. UI
The entire UI is awful, it has nothing to do with whining its about expecting a certain level of competence from a designer as well as the oversight and direction of those individuals preventing them from creating horrible systems.
The fact that you say it's about expecting something shows that it's not about how good or bad the UI actually it is. It's just another instance of people bashing something about that game because of expectations/promises/whatever else instead of just judging it objectively. The UI should not hinder your game experience at all, and yet people won't shut up about it.
Okay I'm pretty unbiased when it comes to DFUW, played it for a week or so and it wasn't really for me. The point I want to make though is that UI can and should hinder someones game experience if it's not well implemented. Say there's a game that lets you carry 10 weapons, and you have to change through those weapons at a moments notice. Now instead of being able to press a key and pull the weapon out, the developer thought it would be a good move to just have a menu that you open that lets you flick through the weapons one at a time. Now you can master this, timing and planning ahead to switch through your weapons to get the one you need, but it would be annoying, clunky, time-wasting, and unnecessary. And, more than likely, a 10 yr old could probably think of a better system to use. So yeah, tiny UI changes can greatly detract from a game. And if people playing were expecting the developer to do something that works great and is incredibly easy to implement, they have every right to complain.
My point wasn't that no UI imaginable can ruin somebody's experience but rather that the DFUW UI wasn't game breaking, it was just unintuitive. And when it comes to functionality, like in your example, it was fine.
[mod edit]
There is a highly specialized field called User Experience. UX for short. Median income is $96k. Top pay is $150k. A UX/UI designer/engineer's job is to make sure the User is having a splendid time using whatever software they are using.
Yes, a shitty UI can ruin somebody's experience with a piece of software. That's why tech companies hire UX engineers and designers to make sure that users experience with their software is not ruined.
Take 3DS Max. I learned Cinema 4D and realized that most game companies were using 3DS Max so I tried learning 3DS Max. 3DS Max UI is absolutely horrible. Everything is buried under menu's and submenu's and panels etc. C4D is so much easier to dive right in and to start modeling whatever you want!
You may not have as many qualms with the backpack UI or the UI in general, but you have to put yourself in a new players shoes. A new player, coming from games like WoW etc will quickly determine DFUW to be a CCC rated game simply because the UI is garbage. When they first start off, they don't have muvh stuff so no big deal. But wait until they have 300 pieces of mob gear to salvage and they have to put all of them into a single bag! If I didn't play DF1 and I ran into that problem, I would immediately demand a refund cause any coder with half a brain would be able to foresee a situation like that. The fact that a situation like that has been overlooked shows that AV is amatuerish in all aspects of game dev.
EDIT:
I get it dude. You are an optimist. You have faith in AV. Nothing wrong with that. But the fact that you have any hope in AV makes it pretty obvious that you just recently discovered DFUW! And don't make excuses for them, that they are an indie company and we should cut them some slack. They've been at this game development thing for over 12 years. Their community interaction is at zero! They deserve no slack. If they want their community to be less toxic, then they need to look within!
You miss the point. I'm not saying people don't care about the UI; I'm saying they shouldn't. I have no doubt that there's a field that specializes in streamlining user experience in a number of ways. I also have no doubt this field exists because of casual gamers who need to have things streamlined otherwise they won't play. There's not much objectively wrong with the UI, at least in terms of aesthetics. The problems it does have really should not hurt your experience significantly... or at all.Currently running the game. 285FPS on a 290X that has been downclocked by 50% because the fans are unbearable loud otherwise. Second client on my slower old game PC with with the 660TI gives me 182FPS in Full HD. That's not what I'd call "horrible performance".
Also Flash is quite fast if you roughly know what you do. I wrote a few games in it and in todays PCs you can have a flash physics engine animating 100s of objects at 60+ FPS before you even see any load in the process manager. The DFUW-Interface is simple so it can't take much resources, even if it really was written with flash.