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What would YOU like to see in new mmo's?
Stupersting
Member Posts: 31
Hey members of MMORPG, what kind of features would you like in a new mmo?
I am part of a research team for a new indie game studio that would be interested in working on an RPG style game, and potentially expand to an MMO (Keep in mind, this is a somewhat slim chance, relying on our success with other games first). As an avid MMORPG player myself I think I share the opinion that these days something is lacking in modern MMO's. So what is it that MMO's are lacking for you, and what features would you like to see in your "ideal" MMO?
Additional questions: What's your opinion on how quests are done? Should guilds exist or do they hamper the community? World wide pvp. Are you for it? against it? How should it be implemented. Skills, just how much should they affect you, and just how much are you willing to grind?
A few things that we already have in mind for our game:
~NO MICROTRANSACTIONS AND NO PAY TO WIN. This is first and foremost in our minds, and in fact is one of the main principals that we go by in our studio. We are about the games, not the money.
~A sense of danger. Most modern games hold your hand while you go along your adventure, and death is nearly meaningless. We want to make a game where there is a good chance that you WILL end up dying now and then, and that death WILL cost you. We aren't here to hold your hand, we are here to create a world.
~No fast travel (With the exception of "high level" rewards). With travelling in games so easy, there is no need to explore. Hubs are the only places people ever inhabit because there is no need to travel the other parts of the game world.
~The crafting system. Many games crafting systems are nearly useless, all the powerful item can be received as quest rewards, monster drops, bought off NPCs. We want to create a crafting system that matters. You want that mid level armour? Go craft it, or find someone who can and buy it off them.
~A player driven economy . Its our goal to create an economy where the players decide the price of items, not us. It should be dynamic and change to suit the player base.
~A reason to explore. We don't want you to be streamlined from one area to the next, the entire world should be worth exploring at your own pace. See a town over on the horizon? Well go check it out!
~The need for teamwork. While the entire game shouldn't force you to work with a team, this IS an MMO. Many aspects of the game you will need to work together to overcome challenges. Not feeling social? Well there will be things to do alone as well, but to get the full experience you are going to have to work with your fellow players.
Will add more to the list later as things come up.
Comments
What's lacking- situationality. Too often these games become about a single gear setup and ability rotation, the target and/or environment rendered pointless.
Quests- mostly lame and pointless. Chain quests with a decision tree (maybe one choice and meaningful failure) would be preferable.
Guilds- can help but not in their current form. Guilds generally have become/been too insular to leverage into a larger community. It's just the nature of their typical setup, there are rarely good tools for alliances nor is there a need for them. Forcing guilds to level for higher member caps and earn facilities/bonuses in a single path (crafting, criminal and such), while allowing players to join several guilds would change many of those tendencies.
PVP- is a challenge, and depends on the power curve. A low curve or game with high situationality can expand the area of FFA or non-con PVP. As that curve grows or situationality diminishes that sort of area needs to be reduced. Flags can work, but only if they feature a significant debuff for turning pvp on. BTW no rewards for meaningless PVP, but I'd look to create meaningful PVP (through Guilds and possibly factions).
Skills and grind- I'm big into customization and my take on skills would reflect that. Generally, the skills themselves would be rather weak but also feature modifier slots/sliders, which would raise the effectiveness/costs. Grind is a crap mechanic that should be minimized. In its place a game of tuning your character and tactics to ever changing threats.
It sounds like you already have a pretty clear vision of what your game is going to be and are just looking for confirmation to green light some stuff. Individual gamers are going to want different things and a have diverse and contradictory list of features that they want. It is very important in the modern MMO market not to try to be all things to all people. A lot of games fail because they send mixed messages in the developer's quest to please everybody but end up delivering a watered down product that nobody wants. As a developer you have to make a difficult call on who you want playing your game and who you do NOT want playing your game. After you weed out the non-customers from your player base you have to absolutely listen to your core following and give them what they want.
Here are some big questions that need to be answered:
1. First is the combat. This is the first thing I want to know when examining any MMO. (Pick One)
-- Is your game Trinity based such that you need a Tank, Healer, DPS to tackle content? Trinity games favor players that want complexity and depth and like figuring out class interdependencies. Most group content is impossible without rigid class setups. There is a distinct line between weak solo content and group content because of these interdependencies.
-- Is your game action based? Action games favor players that are good at twitch reactions regardless of the class they play. Action games tend to not have dedicated tanks or healers but balance class design on Risk VS Opportunity. Possible to solo group content with high degrees of skill.
-- Is your game something else?
2. Is there going to be PvP? (Pick One)
-- Instanced battle ground PvP. An organized fair fight with a clear winner and loser contesting an objective. Favors players who like fair fights and objectives like capture the flag. Rewards PvP gear for playing.
-- Open world PvP. These are open ended battles between factions on a server. Good aligned players VS Evie Aligned players. Favors players who like epic battles and zergs and don't mind unbalanced fights.
-- Free for ALL style PKing. Attack anyone, anywhere for any reason and take their stuff. Favors players who want to take risks. No direct rewards.
-- No PvP at all. For people who only like PvE.
3. Progression: Is this game a themepark or a sandbox? (Pick One)
-- Theme park: Favors those who like linear gameplay. Solo -> Group -> Raid; Start at level 1 and go to level 2 where this is repeated until one hits level cap. Then comes the gear grind where you get continuely better rewards for taking on harder content.
-- Sandbox: Favors gamers who don't like levels or chasing gear but prefer open ended game play. Progressions comes in the form of acquiring skills, talants, land, resources, or building stuff.
4. Monetization: How do I pay for the game? (Pick One)
-- Box + Subscription. Pay upfront for a box and then monthly afterwards.
-- Subscription. No upfront costs just pay the subscription.
-- Buy to play. Just buy the box and it is free after that.
-- DLC or Micro transactions. Pay for only the features you use.
-- Free to Play item mall. The game is free but you can buy power ups and convenience items.
-- Freemium. Has limited free play options. Offers VIP subscriptions and also has an item mall.
5. Guilds: How important are guilds? (Pick One)
-- The guild is everything. The entire game is designed around guild play and players can do little without their guild's support. Favors mega guilds.
-- The guild is a starting point not the be all end all. The game is designed around guilds cooperating with each other. Favors small guilds.
-- Weak or no guilds. Favors unguilded people and pick up group style content.
++++My Answers+++
Action Combat, Free for ALL PvP, Sandbox, Free 2 Play, Weak or no guild
*note no such game exists and probably never will.
Honestly. I'd really like to see quests just...go away. forever. They are the worst part of any mmo.
Three glaring missed ideas
1 Eco systems
2 mobile NPC's that actually act like a player would.
3 Some how we have taken a huge step back in graphics
All 3 are for the same reason everything else in gaming is a fail,developers are looking to build the cheapest,cost effective design they can,it is no longer about game design with passion.
I did not mention another important aspect and that is we need more grouping ,not RAID size as that is ridiculously cumbersome to constantly maintain but normal 4/5/6 man groups.Soloing should be left for other purposes.
We also need a return to choice,it should NOT be a linear questing game,we should get equal or better xp from forming camps and fighting mobs.Linear questing should NOT produce any xp,how does it make sense that one's Warrior has become a more efficient warrior for running some static NPC's errand?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
for the most part i would have to agree with you there.
i think quests can play a role, i just think its repetitive focus is currently the only role quests are allowed to play in most mmo's.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
More quality and complex puzzles.
What ever it combat or quests or housing or crafting , gaming mean solve puzzles.
If the puzzles too easy with arrow point and don't even need to use your brain to solve it then what's interest ?
What's missing in MMORPGs? My answer is completeness.
Most current MMORPGs implement a set of systems carried over from the earliest PnP days of RPGs. No one seems to question if these PnP conventions are good for automation. No developer has chosen to expand the genre beyond the combat-focused system -- leveling, loot and even crafting revolve around combat -- kill something and take its stuff. The developers focus too much on a Game, when they should probably think of their product as a Fantasy World Simulator.
The focus on the Game, and its core component of the combat system, makes the worlds seem flat and incomplete. Quests do nothing except focus the player into the next difficulty of combat encounters. Where are the social aspects of the game? Religion? Politics? What about presenting the player with difficult moral decisions that have impact on the rest of their game-lives?
We've seen 15 years of MMORPG development, but precious little is actually different from the early games. In fact, many of the systems in the early games have pretty much been abandoned -- EQ1 had lock picking and pick pocketing systems, seen another game with those mechanics lately? No one had tried to add another system beyond combat.
What I want to see in a new MMORPG? Some mechanism that pushes the genre forward and expands the game beyond the point where the vicious cycle of Kill - Loot - Repeat is the only real measure of progression.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I don't care about any of the features that you mentioned, I would just like other people to be more devoted into making the game a better experience, rather than just keep demanding the game to do everything for them, and expect the system to fix all the bad effects of the community itself.
Since 90% of my problems with games are generated not by boring gameplay or faulty system, but by people who use it the wrong way or are simply abusing it.
I appreciate all the feedback! To answer a few of your posts/questions...
The combat.
Yes this is a major part of any MMO, and we have still not decided where we want to swing with this. However we do know that we don't want to limit people by the class system. One player should be able to tank just as well as another, depending how they built their characters stats+gear.
PVP. The plan currently is to have a FFA PvP system that's not enforced. If you wish to play the game "safe" you can, but by entering pvp sections you're rewards will be greater than if you stayed safe..
Probably going to go sandbox.
Buy the game once, and you're good. No microtransactions or anything. DLC is a yes, but it will be free after you bought the game.
Guilds.
This is still totally up in the air, we want the community to cooperate with each other, not just their guilds.
Cool thread..
But I see alot of false statements about either an or nature of game design that don't really exist..
My take:
#1. I want high end graphics - at least GW2 level. Probably you can't afford this but if you are making a more hardcore mmo it needs to be more beautiful. If you are stuck exploring somewhere it needs to be nice.
#2. I want a much more 'intelligent' world. I want far smarter NPC and game features. By smart I don't mean 'hey target the healer' - I mean I want NPCs that you can converse with and want things and know things. And its these semi-intelligent NPCs that would generate the 'quests.'
#3. I'd like a REALLY large world. The key to this idea would be that I would want alot more procedurally generated content then is currently in MMOs.
#4. I'd be perfectly okay with levels (but I'd be okay with being downscaled some ala GW2) and I am perfectly okay with a gear chase. I know its crazy talk around here but games with zero gear chase get old. Part of your brain seems to think 'what am I doing here."
#5. I'd want a MODERN combat engine. No tab targetting - but use of the z axis - and 'shooter style' mechanics. Think Tera.
#6. PvP if done at all - needs to take place in the regular world - no instancing all PvP - and seperating it all from the players who just want to PvE. You might use a flag system to keep guys from getting ganked. But its more fun if another faction is destroying something you care about.
#7. I have no problem with mutiple classes and specialized niches. The GW2 style of everyone DPS is boring and leads to rather shitty zerg like mechanics.
#8. Crafting is not cool. I don't know why people want to bring it back. It's a time sink mini game at best and almost always boring.
Biggest thing is I'd like to feel like I was in a virtual world and things I did could permanently effect that world. Unlimited and complex character progression is also a big thing for me and an in-depth economic and political system. Progression should be slow in order to feel really rewarding and PVP, if it is allowed, should be based in RP and lore with some kind of real legal system. I also think caravan trade is tailor made for an MMO and don't know why no game really uses it. I'd like to see no world wide auction houses but instead regional markets like you would actually have in a medieval-type world. Grouping shouldn't be required for simple tasks but solo play should be intellectually challenging with real risk of death if you don't bother to understand your character's skills and how to use them and there obviously should be some things in the world that you can only do in a large group (it is a massively multiplayer game after all...)
I don't care about graphics very much, they are definitely the least important part of this sort of game. Actually, several of the new sandboxes coming out in the next couple of years tick pretty much everything I want in my dream MMO, I hope they deliver...
Themeparks can be fun but if I find a good sandbox I think I'll be pretty much done with them...
Story.
Consequences to player actions.
Ream v Realm.
Grouping is not a dirty word.
Any one of those would show the genre actually wants to go somewhere rather than tread water.
And how would a political system work?
This has been covered many times over, but I'll repeat my desires
NO Instancing whatsoever.. A dynamic world that supports a vast array of classes and play styles.. OH.. and crafting needs to be a vital component to the game.. Magic loot should be uncommon or rare..
Here's some ideas.
1)
Create your own faction.
You chose who you want to fight/trade/align with.
Make it so players and decide for themselves or as a clan/guild.
2)
a. Create a deep and meaningful crafting system where each profession has numerous skills available for learning in any order you like. Learn the basics of many professions or specialize in one to master (make it so mastering a profession will take several years).
b. Limit profession trainers to specific geographic areas which can make learning a challenge if controlled/populated by an enemy faction, however, make it so players are able to teach other players skills they have learnt (up to their skill level) This could entice players to change factions to sell training services.
3)
Design a fluctuating resource and trade system. Control of an area by a tyrant faction where an important resource is mainly found could cause conflict OR create alliances to trade.
4)
Make certain resources seasonal. They could thrive in different areas of the world at certain times of the year. Make other resources more random. Found mainly in one area for a while then dries up/ found elsewhere.
No doubt I'm not the only one who reflects on these questions regularly so nice thread. Just a couple of things based on my limited experience - I've been playing MMO's (a lot of hours) for 6+ years but I've only played PWI, Neverwinter and GW2.
From PWI - mounts and flyers - awesome - really miss them in GW2. You will need to make money some how - I'd suggest mounts/flyers and fashion are a good way to bring in a few bucks - there must be a perfect balance between that 'pretty good' item that a limited-cash or f2p player is happy to use and that is available in game with reasonable effort, and that item that someone can just fork out money for, to buy.
From Neverwinter - don't have linear questing and non-explorable maps - omg this game was terrible - not-including the sandbox element
From PWI - the cash shop was a bit of a pain in the butt for many years but didn't really break the game - it was just painful seeing the sales repeated over and over - however when they introduced super OP gear to the cashshop, that was not reasonably ever available to non-cash players, then they destroyed the game because effort and years of work was instantly redundant.
There needs to be a perfect balance between the time v gear obtained; or the stuff you can craft; or what you can obtain from drops for example. Someone should happily be able to choose to get the absolute best gear in game from crafting, whilst someone else can get the same gear from questing/dungeons/bosses; whilst someone else can just buy it.
Minecraft is very, very, very popular for simple reasons of creation - this needs to be incorporated in an mmo and the whole voxel movement seems to be finally recognising this. I want to be able to mold my world.
PVP - have a look at the open world PVP model that PWI uses - I believe its excellent. The one problem with it, is that you can buy 'protection stones' in game (everyone gets them from in-game coins). These stones kind of wreck the good model they have. Its a system whereby your name goes from white to dark red the more you pvp, and correspondingly, you're likelihood of dropping items when you get pvp'd increase the redder your name is. This works well, except the protection stones mean you can get as red as you want, and continually gank people, and you will never drop and item - keep the model and get rid of the protection stones.
Variety - look at GW2 - what keeps people going is the sheer variety of options.
My personal take on end-game. I love the idea of my own house. Imagine you build a house - you need maintenance to keep it standing, but inherent in owning the house is 'protection' to stop someone coming in a taking your stuff. So you start with a small house, it takes only a tiny bit of maintenance and a tiny bit of material to fuel your protection each day or week. Voila - you have your own sanctuary. Now the next person who plays more than me, he can build a bigger house because he has more time available for his maintenance and protection (which is more because he chose to build a bigger house) etc etc. A group of people might create something pretty big and a guild could build a castle. But if someone is lazy or over extends the size of their building, its protection might faulter from lack of upkeep and so it can be invaded or looted.
Instead of ONLY looking to continually upgrade your gear/weapons - your house, at end game could be to what lengths you build your house. Your house of course could be destroyed by mobs/dragons/pvp's etc depending on whether you protect it or not. (or instead of house think boat/ship/ traders caravan etc etc)
From what I've seen many people value fashion - I don't - but with a complex system of character creation, add a big fashion/ customizable gear element and something I've not ever seen, but what about customizing the look or your weapons for something different.
Balance in all things is vitally important - people value and will focus on many different things but someone who loves one thing shouldn't be disadvantaged over someone who values something else.
Anyway that's all for now.
~A sense of danger.
Sure , but i don't like grind for days to get back 10% exp loss just to get more exp loss and rage.
Exp and level mean goal (for most player) , so exp loss is no good.
I think about some thing like equipment dura lost more when dead or you need gold to get rip death penalty debuff.
Or drop item in inventory that not equipped .
While exp and level mean permanent , item are temporary so it more accept able
Also it add more gold consume (which good for economic in long term)
~No fast travel (With the exception of "high level" rewards).
Need add reason for slow travel , some thing like buy special goods that only sell in city A and sell it (or though quest or task) to city B to get more profit .
It must be something may drop if player get killed when carry
~The crafting system. We want to create a crafting system that matters. You want that mid level armor? Go craft it, or find someone who can and buy it off them.
For crafting , most importance not equipments craft but consume items
It can be treat as mini game where player's skill play a major to results ,
something like "whack a mole" mini game are good for blacksmith while "maze without touching walls" type are good or alchemist to created potion
~A player driven economy
Must have equipments decay , consumed , something like equipment may lost max dura when repair.
Also need more gold consume ways to run good economy system.
AH maybe good but something like player run they own little shop like old days are better ( just my personal)
Additional questions:
-What's your opinion on how quests are done?
Text give information , player find they own way.
Task are simple short term goal to break mob grind. No need background story.
GM live quest where GM give big (epic) quests to other player often , it very importance part to keep game lively.
-Should guilds exist or do they hamper the community?
It should or how you get castle siege or guild war (battle) ?
Top 8 Guild battle each week to see who is strongest guild .
Castle siege with many guilds join always good (or bad) to the community.
Also those active are main events for items consume
-World wide pvp. Are you for it? against it?
It okay but there must be safe zone where pk get punish (send to jail) and lawless zone where you freely pk and don't get punish.
When in jail map , "Red" player have to kill many guard monster to clean they PK point
and just how much are you willing to grind?
Less grind is better. prefer grind where mob need more than 1 party (5 t? 7) players , maybe need big raid to finish it. (but i don't think other will like it)