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Apple discovers that it's not 2009 anymore, upgrades its OpenGL support

QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,531

https://developer.apple.com/graphicsimaging/opengl/capabilities/index.html

I've harped on Apple refusing to support any modern graphics API before, so it's time to give some credit where it's due.  Everything that doesn't have the proper hardware support for OpenGL 4 gets upgraded to OpenGL 3.3.  Newer hardware gets OpenGL 4.1.

Of course, exactly that same newer hardware currently supports OpenGL 4.3 on both Windows and Linux, and will probably soon support OpenGL 4.4.  But still, that's progress for Apple.

Unless, of course, it's Intel graphics.  In that case, for Intel's last three generations of graphics, it will support a strictly newer version of OpenGL on Mac OS X than it does on Windows.  Remember a while ago when I said that Intel was finally taking video drivers seriously?  (Actually, you probably don't, but just take my word for it.)  I'm not so sure about that anymore.

Also important is that that leaves Intel's Sandy Bridge graphics (Intel HD Graphics 2000/3000) for Windows (and probably Linux, but I'm not going to look it up) as the only significant implementation remaining to support OpenGL 3.0 without also supporting 3.3.

Comments

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383

    Apple has always struck an awkward stance with graphics. It's one of the leaders when it comes to publishing graphics, but those don't really rely on OpenGL. Every now and then it'll make a case as to why gamers should care about Macintoshes, and it usually follows through with nothing past a small token marketing mention.

    I bet this has more to do with gaming than they would ever let on (and the number of games coming in on OS X via iOS ports, Steam support, etc). It could also be they have had some major software developers clamoring for it for a while for reasons other than gaming.

    And the other side of that coin is - why should they chase the upgrades so often? If you do a driver right the first time, then why should a driver require an update every 30 days? I'm not saying Apple's drivers are perfect (or Intel's, as it's a loose parallel), but the majority of updates in a Windows driver update are just tweaks for a specific game. Why chase the latest implementation of OpenGL at all? Sure, if you don't have it, no one can develop for it - but realistically not many people will develop for the cutting edge anyway as it's typically limited by an installed hardware base.

    Blizzard has made their games run on OS X for years without needing DirectX or the latest OpenGL. There isn't always feature-parity with regard to the graphics capabilities, but that example alone pretty much proves that you don't ~need~ the latest OpenGL library compatibility to put out a quality (ok that point is arguable) product, or driver updates every month.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332

    Apple is doing it for selfish reasons,so no praise is due for them.Also they made sure to ONLY upgrade to the standard they need for their new framework they are working on or about to release.Their framework is trying to make it easier to designs games on apple systems,this has nothing to do with pleasing customers,at least not in the short run,even still it is all about Apple,no other reason.

    Don't get me started on anything Blizzard,they are a developer still turning out low poly Indie looking games,nothing they do is for the better of gamer's only themselves all surrounding greed and exploiting naive gamer's who don't know any better.

    Direct X still offers a complete set of libraries for gaming where as open gl only works for the graphic end of things.Some might say it is a better way to go and having used a lot of opengl over the years ,they might be right.A perfect exmple is that i cannot even use D3D on some of my older games,it simply will not work correctly always resorting to software render.Opengl used to be really bad,you had to find fixes and hacked versions to get it to run but over time,i find opengl has become my safest bet,i never have any problems  now for many years.

     

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,531

    I don't particularly care if Apple is doing this for selfish reasons.  When companies offer good products at good prices, they're doing it for selfish reasons--but that shouldn't deter you from buying a good product at a good price.

    As for Ridelynn, remember that on OpenGL 3.3, we're talking about 2006-2009 era hardware here.  OpenGL 3.3 itself released in early 2010, and it was clear at the time that this was going to be the last version of OpenGL for that era of hardware.  If you're going to support it at all ever, why wait until late 2013 to get around to it?  Is it really cheaper to wait three years before you get around to it?  Even if software doesn't use it early on, earlier support means more time to debug it before it really matters.

    I'm not asking Apple to offer a monthly update with minor advances in API support.  A yearly update for the latest OpenGL version--if there is a new version that year even--is basically what AMD and Nvidia do.  AMD and Nvidia may well take a year to get around to fully supporting the latest version of OpenGL, but taking one year (in which time it probably won't matter yet) sure beats taking 3 or 4 years.

    I don't think this is about iOS ports.  iOS doesn't support OpenGL at all.  It uses OpenGL ES, which is a rather crippled subset of OpenGL.  But if you want to support the latest OpenGL ES 3.0, the earliest version of OpenGL to contain everything in it is 4.3, which Apple still isn't supporting.

    It is possible that Apple doesn't want to be in a situation where there are a bunch of games available for Steam OS and other Linux distributions but not for Mac OS X because Apple couldn't be bothered to write the drivers to support it.  But that would probably be years away still.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383

    Your right, iOS uses OpenGL ES, but OS X uses OpenGL. They are not the same.

    However, if you were to look at the OS X App Store (they have one now, because they are hellbent on turning OS X into iOS), there are a lot of iOS ports. I would bet more than 50% (maybe as much as 75%) of the entertainment/game apps available are straight iOS ports, and that does account for a lot of sales.

    That is a big jump from what has previously been available for OS X... usually we just see a few poorly implemented WINE-wrapper/CrossOver ports (not that WINE/CrossOver aren't great, it's just that the emulation does end up being less-than-good), a few ports from Aspyr, Blizzard, and a very few indie die-hards who just like writing software for OS X (hooray for the old Bungie - Marathon!).

    A large part of that is because Apple hasn't released/updated the tools, but the bigger reason is there just wasn't the market. OS X isn't a big marketshare on the PC end, whereas iOS has a huge, paying, share on the tablet/mobile market (even if you discount the entire "Marketshare" argument, look at the revenue numbers and you see iOS is on top still).

    So it's no wonder we are seeing a lot of iOS ports - there is more iOS software being generated than there ever was OS X software. And your right, they don't use the same OpenGL versions, but I still wouldn't be surprised to hear that they are updating OS X OpenGL in order to help ride that wave of new software coming in... and with the new 64-bit ARM architectures just starting to get out in the world, once they start to become more commonplace I bet we see some changes in the OpenGL ES space as well (although maybe not until iOS 8 or 9).

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