Do you not miss the days of going out into the world, and exploring and finding something new instead of just teleporting to it in a matter of seconds? I can do that in every MMO now.
Except there is nothing there except the content you need for a quest or achievment, Rift being the most visible example, the exploration experience then does not feel exciting, but micromanaged.
Do you not miss saving up every piece of gold in order to purchase that rare [insert item/skill here]? I can do that in every MMO now.
Item binding mechanics would like a word with you.
Do you not miss the days when each class had its own role, and everything wasn't blended into the same thing? Still exists in most games now
Except the classes get continuously streamlined to be replaceable and thus similar, only creating further balance/fairness problems if the original thought offered other differences like resource management or defenses.
This is more of a hair splitting argument than anything else, does the color of the spells mean having its role and being different if the end result of damage is the same and the content is designed around just a small number of archetypes not offering any way to capitalize on the (sometimes small) role differences the classes have?
Flame on!
Regarding exploring. How is there being a quest there relevant. I didn't go there because of a quest, I went there because I wanted to see what's over there, exactly the same reason for exploring today as I did before. If I can then pick up a quest while I'm there doesn't diminish the exploration, it adds to it.
Regarding BoE - not all good items are BoE.
Yes many times classes do get continuously streamlined, but not all classes and not all games.
Because the quests are so heavily gamified, you know you'll find nothing of value out exploring. It hinders the experience.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Do you not miss the days of going out into the world, and exploring and finding something new instead of just teleporting to it in a matter of seconds? I can do that in every MMO now.
Except there is nothing there except the content you need for a quest or achievment, Rift being the most visible example, the exploration experience then does not feel exciting, but micromanaged.
Do you not miss saving up every piece of gold in order to purchase that rare [insert item/skill here]? I can do that in every MMO now.
Item binding mechanics would like a word with you.
Do you not miss the days when each class had its own role, and everything wasn't blended into the same thing? Still exists in most games now
Except the classes get continuously streamlined to be replaceable and thus similar, only creating further balance/fairness problems if the original thought offered other differences like resource management or defenses.
This is more of a hair splitting argument than anything else, does the color of the spells mean having its role and being different if the end result of damage is the same and the content is designed around just a small number of archetypes not offering any way to capitalize on the (sometimes small) role differences the classes have?
Flame on!
Regarding exploring. How is there being a quest there relevant. I didn't go there because of a quest, I went there because I wanted to see what's over there, exactly the same reason for exploring today as I did before. If I can then pick up a quest while I'm there doesn't diminish the exploration, it adds to it.
Regarding BoE - not all good items are BoE.
Yes many times classes do get continuously streamlined, but not all classes and not all games.
Because the quests are so heavily gamified, you know you'll find nothing of value out exploring. It hinders the experience.
I disagree, finding a cool quest, or a cool cave is interesting. Those were the only reasons for exploring before. I may find something I may not. Finding a cool quest doesn't change that. Or I may find nothing... just like before.
The only thing I found in old games was a cool looking area, a cool mob, a cool quest. Or nothing.
Guess what I find in new games? A cool looking area, a cool mob, a cool quest. Or nothing.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Perhaps some of the nostalgia comes from the fact that back then we had no expectations. Now we have a very long an unwavering list of must have features before we even give an mmo a chance.
I've caught myself doing this on certain games. No F2P, deep crafting, no twitch combat blah blah blah or Im outta here.
I didn't have any list like that when I played my first few mmos. And they were the best. Hmm coincidence?
I try to go into mmos now with an open mind and try to appreciate the dev's vision. I may not end up playing for long, but I usually tend to enjoy myself a lot more.
Perhaps some of the nostalgia comes from the fact that back then we had no expectations. Now we have a very long an unwavering list of must have features before we even give an mmo a chance.
I've caught myself doing this on certain games. No F2P, deep crafting, no twitch combat blah blah blah or Im outta here.
I didn't have any list like that when I played my first few mmos. And they were the best. Hmm coincidence?
I try to go into mmos now with an open mind and try to appreciate the dev's vision. I may not end up playing for long, but I usually tend to enjoy myself a lot more.
You might be onto something there. Unmet expectations is the reason for disappointment. Hmm.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I liked UO/EQ as older mmos, played them both 6-8 years total. I have gone back to UO multiple times, I do not like the new skill combos/setup and newer direction of the game. The 2D client does not bother me, and not enough people seem to play the alternatives (no, I am not a huge pvper, so that aspect doesn't worry me either way, as I have played it before trammel and after)...So if they did a old school UO server with new content being added, in the style it use to be, I would sub today, I would probably sub on a official old school server (they were going to do one, but didn't).
EQ, I liked EQ before all the instances wen't crazy, think it was OOW or something like that I stopped playing, I prefer open world content.
I liked SWG, but I always admit they needed to balance things more (jedi class did not help this), and they needed more content (in the style that the game was made) and their was still a lot of buggy stuff.
I really liked DAoC, but their constant huge class changes (nerfs and such) wore thin, still my favorite rvr type game though.
A 'newer' mmo would be Vanguard, I really liked it, but it was released too buggy and didn't run good on most peoples computers (I had a brand new high end machine, so I didn't have nearly the problems other people had, that turned them off so much).
Vanguard was supposed to be like a old school mmo, but even it was made easier, and they did have quest hubs and such, but the huge world, solid pve, diplomacy and deep harvesting/crafting did enough to make it a good compromise to old school/newer mmos for me to love it.
Newest suprise for me was TSW, I really liked it, just ran out of content, as it is a quest driven themepark and not too traditional, but they did the stories/quests really well.
NW, I couldn't log out of the beta fast enough, TOR played my free month, finished my story, it was ok, but not worth sticking around, GW2 felt cluttered and the classes didn't make me want to play them at all.
So from UO to VG, that is a good number of years, was on a long break hoping that instances would fade from everything, due to EQ really burning me out on them before VG.
So I say no, it isn't rose colored anything, sure trains, camping and such could suck sometimes, but it also usually is involved in some of my best memories....Things are so shallow now , usually, that I don't even want to spend the time playing most newer mmos, even if they were 100% free with no cash shop.
Perhaps some of the nostalgia comes from the fact that back then we had no expectations. Now we have a very long an unwavering list of must have features before we even give an mmo a chance.
I've caught myself doing this on certain games. No F2P, deep crafting, no twitch combat blah blah blah or Im outta here.
I didn't have any list like that when I played my first few mmos. And they were the best. Hmm coincidence?
I try to go into mmos now with an open mind and try to appreciate the dev's vision. I may not end up playing for long, but I usually tend to enjoy myself a lot more.
You might be onto something there. Unmet expectations is the reason for disappointment. Hmm.
Yeah, I have a list of what I like, they aren't deal breakers, as I posted earlier, I played TSW and liked it, and it is not an old school mmo and would fail a lot to most of my list. So I am not adverse to trying something new that doesn't meet a lot of my list, but NW, GW2, TOR, Rift (I played my story, so I say I got my money worth) just didn't do much for me as mmos.
I like worlds, I like something worth playing and staying in....I did TOR crafting and maxed out my crafting skill in one short session, when I compare that to something like VG, it is really disappointing/easy... I like depth, not constant action...So I guess it depends on what you go into a mmo looking for....If you want a hack and slash experience, you may like the newer mmos more?
Regarding exploring. How is there being a quest there relevant. I didn't go there because of a quest, I went there because I wanted to see what's over there, exactly the same reason for exploring before. If I can then pick up a quest while I'm there doesn't diminish the exploration, it adds to it.
Regarding BoE - not all good items are BoE. And a great many items sold at auction are still horrifically expensive making it necessary to save and hoard all your coin.
Yes many times classes do get continuously streamlined, but not all classes and not all games.
Exploration - It diminishes at the point where you do something somewhere else and you are sent to do the quest in the area you already were, dunno, i would think that the whole point of exploration is that you dont have to do it, yet you visit all areas in modern games just following quest chains.
BoE - there are only that many non bound items, so that people like you can claim not all items are boe, and hoarding these days means "do this for 3 days", which is good in a sense but only leads to trading and content outside the "main activity" being less and less important and consequently developed.
Overall, we are talking trends here, or percieved trends if you want, just because there is a empty house at your street corner it does not mean the human population is going down.
I went back to EQ the other month to kind of test this for myself..
I was qutie a big EQ player when it was first around so I kind of always look back to that when I think of MMORPGs...
Well ok the interface, controls, graphics are just utterly outdated but I thought I would push past that and try and get into it again.. I did not really have much time to put into it but I got to about lvl 15.. I am sure things have changed quite a bit but I did still find it more of a challenge than most current MMORPGs and of course the need to group up was there as well.
I dont think I could go back and really put time into this because of the issues with it being really outdated but the gameplay itself was still good.. but I am more into Sandbox MMOS these days that are geared towards PVP.. but still I did find it more enjoyable than most of the current themeparks on the market..
Anyone can try this as well as its now f2p.. you just need to push past the old graphics and interface
Some time ago, I was thinking about this "nostalgia factor" but now I'm 100% convinced that it's not the case.
My "first" was a DAoC. I have many great memories from this game. I went back after few years and noticed that I'm not that excited about a game now. So it got me thinking, that maybe there's something like a nostalgia bias. Then, EQ went F2P. I've never played it so decided to give it a shot, and... I had a blast. It felt right. I was discovering things just like in DAoC. I enjoyed exploration, finding out how classes works, looking for ways to level etc.
So "Yes". You can have your "firsts" even now. Your age doesn't matter. Your memories doesn't matter. Trends doesn't matter. If game feels right, it feels right.
I have to say that its staleness of the genre. WoW is the last MMO I enjoyed. I am just tired of the formula of quest hub themeparks that have been so streamlined that you're basically feel like cattle driven down a path to graze on content. Not only that but social interaction isn't needed and doesn't happen much. No I don't expect Facebook but at least good reasons to multiplayer in a multiplayer game.
If those old MMOs were revamped with todays graphics I think many players would flock back to them. Some of the old school that was bad school like corpse runs has properly been removed. Once you leap the graphics hurdle its all about gameplay and modern MMOs do not shine so much with the graphics advantage removed.
For me gw2 was the answer... (yeah wtf..?) as i am not 16 anymore and dont have loads of time on my hands to grind,but i still dont want to be left behind,anddddd.... at the same time i really enjoy grinding in the weekends (hmmm...) well gw2 may at first look like a grindless game with no real endgame. oh boy have ive been proven wrong,im still trying to save 120 gold for a wep (im at 60gold!!! ) the wep might not add any stats but it looks freaking epic exploring wise there is a huge world to explore!!! at first you cant use any of the teleports,you have to explore the area by foot,after that even if you outlevel an area you can still enjoy exploring it because of the level adjustment system. (explorers heaven) the pvp in gw2 is the best i have ever had,and i am a veteran L2 player. Yes i miss the ability to pk,and fighting over farm zones,but when it comes to large scale battles or 1v1 battles GW2 is much better. you can join 1v1 tournaments to test your skills or join right up to an epic svs fights over glory and minor buffs for your server (ofc you get loot ^_^ ) now alot of people compain about svs being zergy and mindless,well i have a tip for you,almost every server uses a team speak server where the commanders give orders,then you will start to understand the complexty of things. (well sometimes you get matched with an overpapulated server and then there is not much you can do )
Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics. Reply Add Multi-Quote
Minecraft has shocked the game industry. It was happily churning out quest-based, directed gameplay games, one as cloned as the other, not understanding why turnover rate plummeted.
Then suddenly this extreme sandbox - a type of game not seen since the old days - hit mainstream, proving, that what many so-called "rose-tinted glasses nostalgics" have been saying all along: That something got lost in this age of McDonalds-gaming with no challenges or surprises.
Keep on going with Rose-colored glasses and refuse to see reality. It will ensure, that you from your darkness will be surprised to see what the next generation of MMOs will be like.
Ya, you are right, games live in vacuums and don't inspire each other. You know, like EQ Next's completely destructible landscape is not at all inspired by Minecraft.
Ya, you are right, games live in vacuums and don't inspire each other. You know, like EQ Next's completely destructible landscape is not at all inspired by Minecraft.
I mean, I don't know anyone who "wants it all back the way it was". And if some people seem to say that, I assume it is just born of frustration over the present day MMOs, so they go a bit over the top in their critique, which is an understandable strategy to highlight issues.
I do not want to go back to UO/EQ1 hardships; not at all. But SOME things in these games was good, and it would be good, or could be expanded upon. One thing which was good, was the approach to create WORLDS first, as in the UO example, and not so much mere "games". Also, in modern MMOs things are either WAY too easy, and to compensate some other things and insanely difficult, like adding some super difficult boss mobs with console-like timed reaction elements.
Example, I saw some people in Elder Scrolls beta run into dungeons, and that mere fact they COULD just run through dungeons was WRONG. Same with Neverwinter. Yes there were traps, but people just WALZED over them without ANY caution, because the traps were just a joke! This is just plain wrong. No sense of danger. In a MMO a "speedrun" should not be possible. Period. Paragraph.
Also, these days you level WAY too fast. When I played Everquest 2 or SWG, when I was away for, say, a week, my friends would be 1 or 2 levels above me. Now, when I am away a week my friends have gained 20 levels and are totally out of my reach. THAT is what is wrong. It goes too fast, there is no "medium" difficulty in the overall world just too easy and some too difficult hotspots. Older games like EQ2 had some very dangerous zones, like Nek Forest, which in EQ2's vanilla setting was quite difficult, not uber difficult, but difficult. And once I finally managed to cross it, it felt like an accomplishment!
Also: what you attained in the old games was done INGAME, not by BUYING titles and robes in a frigging $$ shop! When my EQ2 Pally finally got a title, it was after 1-2 years hard work! It MEANT something, because of the tons of work invested, I didnd't a stupid lord title for dollars or because I had killed 30 wolves!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I am just tired of the formula of quest hub themeparks that have been so streamlined that you're basically feel like cattle driven down a path to graze on content. Not only that but social interaction isn't needed and doesn't happen much. No I don't expect Facebook but at least good reasons to multiplayer in a multiplayer game.
This summarizes nicely how I feel, although I never played WoW (but now wish I had done so during Vanilla).
Originally posted by Quirhid Originally posted by RasputinOriginally posted by jpnzI didn't realise Minecraft was an MMO.Hang on a sec.. LOLWUT?
Ya, you are right, games live in vacuums and don't inspire each other. You know, like EQ Next's completely destructible landscape is not at all inspired by Minecraft.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdgPuEl5NukMaybe it was inspired by Battlefield 4?
I had the same thought, Q.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Anyone who says "Rose tinted glasses" is foolish. They're usually someone who never played the games in question, in my experience.
Most people talking about the old games remember them vividly, and in many cases play emulators of them if they can.
I often talk about how I prefer Morrowind to Oblivion, and people try the "rose colored glasses" excuse, or say I played Morrowind first. In reality, Oblivion was my first ES game. I simply think MW is better.
I can argue the upsides and downsides to just about every feature in DAoC. There's a reason I stopped playing it. But I still say it's way superior to most modern MMOs.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I am just tired of the formula of quest hub themeparks that have been so streamlined that you're basically feel like cattle driven down a path to graze on content. Not only that but social interaction isn't needed and doesn't happen much. No I don't expect Facebook but at least good reasons to multiplayer in a multiplayer game.
This summarizes nicely how I feel, although I never played WoW (but now wish I had done so during Vanilla).
Vanilla WoW wasn't very different from modern WoW. It was the most casual game on the market at the time, it was the most solo friendly and solo oriented, and heavily instanced and had all the gameplay focused on linear quest hubs.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I am just tired of the formula of quest hub themeparks that have been so streamlined that you're basically feel like cattle driven down a path to graze on content. Not only that but social interaction isn't needed and doesn't happen much. No I don't expect Facebook but at least good reasons to multiplayer in a multiplayer game.
This summarizes nicely how I feel, although I never played WoW (but now wish I had done so during Vanilla).
Vanilla WoW wasn't very different from modern WoW. It was the most casual game on the market at the time, it was the most solo friendly and solo oriented, and heavily instanced and had all the gameplay focused on linear quest hubs.
I wish that was true, but it isnt, maybe if you raided all the time...
Nope...would not go back at all. I like the newer dynamic event approach. I like being able to explore without being destroyed (rode to Helms Deep last night just to see it at level 85).
Of course I agree with the OP! I yearn for a challenge; and not a self-imposed challenge as is rediculously suggested here by a couple posters. No, I want to fight and explore in a harsh world, alongside others with whom to share the challenge, risk, reward.
I think that's the problem. Not enough people are willing to pay for that. Everyone is demanding MMO's be free now, to the point that I think developers have painted themselves into a corner with what they can reasonably get funding for.
I think the closest you'll get is for a small dev studio to build an MMO that's designed to be profitable at a very low subscription number; something like 200k max. The graphics don't have to be AAA, but the game does need to be polished and enjoyable for more than just the hardcore 'i don't care about looks' crowd. Something on the level of LotRO, but with better animations would be just fine.
I don't see that happening any time soon though, because the studios capable of it are too busy chasing the F2P cash cow (low dev requirements when most of your added content is just loot boxes or keys or whatever), and the studios that are willing to do it are disorganized Kickstarter groups that lack the ability to properly execute a title, much less polish it.
Comments
Because the quests are so heavily gamified, you know you'll find nothing of value out exploring. It hinders the experience.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I disagree, finding a cool quest, or a cool cave is interesting. Those were the only reasons for exploring before. I may find something I may not. Finding a cool quest doesn't change that. Or I may find nothing... just like before.
The only thing I found in old games was a cool looking area, a cool mob, a cool quest. Or nothing.
Guess what I find in new games? A cool looking area, a cool mob, a cool quest. Or nothing.
Perhaps some of the nostalgia comes from the fact that back then we had no expectations. Now we have a very long an unwavering list of must have features before we even give an mmo a chance.
I've caught myself doing this on certain games. No F2P, deep crafting, no twitch combat blah blah blah or Im outta here.
I didn't have any list like that when I played my first few mmos. And they were the best. Hmm coincidence?
I try to go into mmos now with an open mind and try to appreciate the dev's vision. I may not end up playing for long, but I usually tend to enjoy myself a lot more.
You might be onto something there. Unmet expectations is the reason for disappointment. Hmm.
There is always going to be a diverse market.
Some want mindless pap they can blow through and complain about
Some want substance and creativity
I liked UO/EQ as older mmos, played them both 6-8 years total. I have gone back to UO multiple times, I do not like the new skill combos/setup and newer direction of the game. The 2D client does not bother me, and not enough people seem to play the alternatives (no, I am not a huge pvper, so that aspect doesn't worry me either way, as I have played it before trammel and after)...So if they did a old school UO server with new content being added, in the style it use to be, I would sub today, I would probably sub on a official old school server (they were going to do one, but didn't).
EQ, I liked EQ before all the instances wen't crazy, think it was OOW or something like that I stopped playing, I prefer open world content.
I liked SWG, but I always admit they needed to balance things more (jedi class did not help this), and they needed more content (in the style that the game was made) and their was still a lot of buggy stuff.
I really liked DAoC, but their constant huge class changes (nerfs and such) wore thin, still my favorite rvr type game though.
A 'newer' mmo would be Vanguard, I really liked it, but it was released too buggy and didn't run good on most peoples computers (I had a brand new high end machine, so I didn't have nearly the problems other people had, that turned them off so much).
Vanguard was supposed to be like a old school mmo, but even it was made easier, and they did have quest hubs and such, but the huge world, solid pve, diplomacy and deep harvesting/crafting did enough to make it a good compromise to old school/newer mmos for me to love it.
Newest suprise for me was TSW, I really liked it, just ran out of content, as it is a quest driven themepark and not too traditional, but they did the stories/quests really well.
NW, I couldn't log out of the beta fast enough, TOR played my free month, finished my story, it was ok, but not worth sticking around, GW2 felt cluttered and the classes didn't make me want to play them at all.
So from UO to VG, that is a good number of years, was on a long break hoping that instances would fade from everything, due to EQ really burning me out on them before VG.
So I say no, it isn't rose colored anything, sure trains, camping and such could suck sometimes, but it also usually is involved in some of my best memories....Things are so shallow now , usually, that I don't even want to spend the time playing most newer mmos, even if they were 100% free with no cash shop.
Yeah, I have a list of what I like, they aren't deal breakers, as I posted earlier, I played TSW and liked it, and it is not an old school mmo and would fail a lot to most of my list. So I am not adverse to trying something new that doesn't meet a lot of my list, but NW, GW2, TOR, Rift (I played my story, so I say I got my money worth) just didn't do much for me as mmos.
I like worlds, I like something worth playing and staying in....I did TOR crafting and maxed out my crafting skill in one short session, when I compare that to something like VG, it is really disappointing/easy... I like depth, not constant action...So I guess it depends on what you go into a mmo looking for....If you want a hack and slash experience, you may like the newer mmos more?
Exploration - It diminishes at the point where you do something somewhere else and you are sent to do the quest in the area you already were, dunno, i would think that the whole point of exploration is that you dont have to do it, yet you visit all areas in modern games just following quest chains.
BoE - there are only that many non bound items, so that people like you can claim not all items are boe, and hoarding these days means "do this for 3 days", which is good in a sense but only leads to trading and content outside the "main activity" being less and less important and consequently developed.
Overall, we are talking trends here, or percieved trends if you want, just because there is a empty house at your street corner it does not mean the human population is going down.
Flame on!
I went back to EQ the other month to kind of test this for myself..
I was qutie a big EQ player when it was first around so I kind of always look back to that when I think of MMORPGs...
Well ok the interface, controls, graphics are just utterly outdated but I thought I would push past that and try and get into it again.. I did not really have much time to put into it but I got to about lvl 15.. I am sure things have changed quite a bit but I did still find it more of a challenge than most current MMORPGs and of course the need to group up was there as well.
I dont think I could go back and really put time into this because of the issues with it being really outdated but the gameplay itself was still good.. but I am more into Sandbox MMOS these days that are geared towards PVP.. but still I did find it more enjoyable than most of the current themeparks on the market..
Anyone can try this as well as its now f2p.. you just need to push past the old graphics and interface
Some time ago, I was thinking about this "nostalgia factor" but now I'm 100% convinced that it's not the case.
My "first" was a DAoC. I have many great memories from this game. I went back after few years and noticed that I'm not that excited about a game now. So it got me thinking, that maybe there's something like a nostalgia bias. Then, EQ went F2P. I've never played it so decided to give it a shot, and... I had a blast. It felt right. I was discovering things just like in DAoC. I enjoyed exploration, finding out how classes works, looking for ways to level etc.
So "Yes". You can have your "firsts" even now. Your age doesn't matter. Your memories doesn't matter. Trends doesn't matter. If game feels right, it feels right.
Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
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Add Multi-Quote
Minecraft has shocked the game industry. It was happily churning out quest-based, directed gameplay games, one as cloned as the other, not understanding why turnover rate plummeted.
Then suddenly this extreme sandbox - a type of game not seen since the old days - hit mainstream, proving, that what many so-called "rose-tinted glasses nostalgics" have been saying all along: That something got lost in this age of McDonalds-gaming with no challenges or surprises.
Keep on going with Rose-colored glasses and refuse to see reality. It will ensure, that you from your darkness will be surprised to see what the next generation of MMOs will be like.
I didn't realise Minecraft was an MMO.
Hang on a sec.. LOLWUT?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Ya, you are right, games live in vacuums and don't inspire each other. You know, like EQ Next's completely destructible landscape is not at all inspired by Minecraft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdgPuEl5Nuk
Maybe it was inspired by Battlefield 4?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
See my signature.
I mean, I don't know anyone who "wants it all back the way it was". And if some people seem to say that, I assume it is just born of frustration over the present day MMOs, so they go a bit over the top in their critique, which is an understandable strategy to highlight issues.
I do not want to go back to UO/EQ1 hardships; not at all. But SOME things in these games was good, and it would be good, or could be expanded upon. One thing which was good, was the approach to create WORLDS first, as in the UO example, and not so much mere "games". Also, in modern MMOs things are either WAY too easy, and to compensate some other things and insanely difficult, like adding some super difficult boss mobs with console-like timed reaction elements.
Example, I saw some people in Elder Scrolls beta run into dungeons, and that mere fact they COULD just run through dungeons was WRONG. Same with Neverwinter. Yes there were traps, but people just WALZED over them without ANY caution, because the traps were just a joke! This is just plain wrong. No sense of danger. In a MMO a "speedrun" should not be possible. Period. Paragraph.
Also, these days you level WAY too fast. When I played Everquest 2 or SWG, when I was away for, say, a week, my friends would be 1 or 2 levels above me. Now, when I am away a week my friends have gained 20 levels and are totally out of my reach. THAT is what is wrong. It goes too fast, there is no "medium" difficulty in the overall world just too easy and some too difficult hotspots. Older games like EQ2 had some very dangerous zones, like Nek Forest, which in EQ2's vanilla setting was quite difficult, not uber difficult, but difficult. And once I finally managed to cross it, it felt like an accomplishment!
Also: what you attained in the old games was done INGAME, not by BUYING titles and robes in a frigging $$ shop! When my EQ2 Pally finally got a title, it was after 1-2 years hard work! It MEANT something, because of the tons of work invested, I didnd't a stupid lord title for dollars or because I had killed 30 wolves!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
This summarizes nicely how I feel, although I never played WoW (but now wish I had done so during Vanilla).
Ya, you are right, games live in vacuums and don't inspire each other. You know, like EQ Next's completely destructible landscape is not at all inspired by Minecraft. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdgPuEl5NukMaybe it was inspired by Battlefield 4?
I had the same thought, Q.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Anyone who says "Rose tinted glasses" is foolish. They're usually someone who never played the games in question, in my experience.
Most people talking about the old games remember them vividly, and in many cases play emulators of them if they can.
I often talk about how I prefer Morrowind to Oblivion, and people try the "rose colored glasses" excuse, or say I played Morrowind first. In reality, Oblivion was my first ES game. I simply think MW is better.
I can argue the upsides and downsides to just about every feature in DAoC. There's a reason I stopped playing it. But I still say it's way superior to most modern MMOs.
I wish that was true, but it isnt, maybe if you raided all the time...
Flame on!
I think that's the problem. Not enough people are willing to pay for that. Everyone is demanding MMO's be free now, to the point that I think developers have painted themselves into a corner with what they can reasonably get funding for.
I think the closest you'll get is for a small dev studio to build an MMO that's designed to be profitable at a very low subscription number; something like 200k max. The graphics don't have to be AAA, but the game does need to be polished and enjoyable for more than just the hardcore 'i don't care about looks' crowd. Something on the level of LotRO, but with better animations would be just fine.
I don't see that happening any time soon though, because the studios capable of it are too busy chasing the F2P cash cow (low dev requirements when most of your added content is just loot boxes or keys or whatever), and the studios that are willing to do it are disorganized Kickstarter groups that lack the ability to properly execute a title, much less polish it.
You make me like charity