For those saying that this game is a zerfest, I would like to know what game that involves hundreds of players on a battlefield that isn't. Heck, it would be that way in a real life situation, choose any civil war from any country.
The term zergfest is being overused and/or misused when it comes to mmo's imho. Almost any negative comment about mmorpg PvP leads to this expression to degrade the title. Think of new ways to express your disappointment because the norm is to gather and attack.
You are so true. What do they expect when hundreds of players are in one area?
that's why realm vs realm or battleground pvp sucks, because no matter what the devs do, it just inevitably turns into a zerg fest. Only pvp should be duels or open-world pvp.
Sorry - open world PvP turns into the zerging or griefing. That IS NOT PvP then in your opinion so open world PvP is not PvP.
Dueling is just stupid.
when I played PWI which had open world pvp, I never encountered a zerg. Not even once, only griefers/pkers. If you join a PvP server you agree that you are going to be griefed or pked at inconvenient times. That's why I suggest there be a PvE server for carebears. In PWI, even in the pvp server you couldn't get pked unless you'd killed someone yourself or you turned pvp on. You obviously haven't played a game with decent open world pvp mechanics. And in before you tell me to go play PWI because it's terribly p2w.
Why is dueling stupid? You don't like to test your individual skill? You'd rather run around in a group of 50 people where your contribution is so minor you may as well not even be there?
I see you didn't mention GvG... so pathetic how after a year+ (I think) of being released they still haven't even put in proper GvG.
I personally have always thought it was useless. You get nothing out of it, and the little time I get to spend playing on my computer I want it to be useful. IMHO it is way more fun and satisfying to kill an opposite faction player and gain some type of reward for it.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
you gotta be kidding me right? WvW is nothing but a zerg fest and is a pathetic excuse for PvP.
That's because you chose a poor server and are more than likely in a crap guild as well.
My guild and our alliance continually runs 2 full groups with 2-6 smaller groups holding off the enemy while the main groups take the map and counter attack. WvW is what YOU make of it, you chose to run around with your head cut off because you are used to having the developers hold your hand with themepark FORCED gameplay.
Don't worry, you have a game just like that coming out shortly in TESO, they will even create your pride for you. Leave games like GW2 to people that don't need others to think for them or create the smallest bits of gameplay to guide you.
Hell, odds are you didn't even figure out the healing system and zerged the instances...
hahahahaha it's so funny watching people attempt to argue for gw2's wvw system. My server is Sea of Sorrows, it was in the top 3 for a while but dropped down into the top 6 bracket. "Running 2 full groups of 2-6 smaller groups holding off the enemy" wow so tactical... sounds like so much fun. Like you guys really make a difference when the larger zerg trumps all. What you described at the end of the day is just capping points in large zergs while smaller groups waste their time wasting their enemies time. No I don't choose to run around with my head cut off because I'm used to having the devs hold my hand with themepark FORCED gameplay, because I don't even play this piece of shit anymore. And no, I'm not waiting for TESO (you might enjoy it though), because I'm waiting for Wildstar which has open-world pvp which I'm hoping will be decent. You should play Wildstar and see how your superiority complex suits you in open world.
So you are here promoting Wildstar and it's system that hasn't even been released yet. Sorry, that is funny. /shrug. I too am waiting for Wildstar but my expectations are much lower and I believe more realistic, because I can see it will be another "Clone". If I want WoW I just go and play it right now instead of waiting.
If you don't like GW2 that is acceptable, but don't try and bash it by using an unreleased title to enforce your point.
Also you mention GW2 in a negative way as a themepark game, but in the same paragraph you promote another themepark game and that being Wildstar.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
you gotta be kidding me right? WvW is nothing but a zerg fest and is a pathetic excuse for PvP.
That's because you chose a poor server and are more than likely in a crap guild as well.
My guild and our alliance continually runs 2 full groups with 2-6 smaller groups holding off the enemy while the main groups take the map and counter attack. WvW is what YOU make of it, you chose to run around with your head cut off because you are used to having the developers hold your hand with themepark FORCED gameplay.
Don't worry, you have a game just like that coming out shortly in TESO, they will even create your pride for you. Leave games like GW2 to people that don't need others to think for them or create the smallest bits of gameplay to guide you.
Hell, odds are you didn't even figure out the healing system and zerged the instances...
hahahahaha it's so funny watching people attempt to argue for gw2's wvw system. My server is Sea of Sorrows, it was in the top 3 for a while but dropped down into the top 6 bracket. "Running 2 full groups of 2-6 smaller groups holding off the enemy" wow so tactical... sounds like so much fun. Like you guys really make a difference when the larger zerg trumps all. What you described at the end of the day is just capping points in large zergs while smaller groups waste their time wasting their enemies time. No I don't choose to run around with my head cut off because I'm used to having the devs hold my hand with themepark FORCED gameplay, because I don't even play this piece of shit anymore. And no, I'm not waiting for TESO (you might enjoy it though), because I'm waiting for Wildstar which has open-world pvp which I'm hoping will be decent. You should play Wildstar and see how your superiority complex suits you in open world.
So you are here promoting Wildstar and it's system that hasn't even been released yet. Sorry, that is funny. /shrug. I too am waiting for Wildstar but my expectations are much lower and I believe more realistic, because I can see it will be another "Clone". If I want WoW I just go and play it right now instead of waiting.
If you don't like GW2 that is acceptable, but don't try and bash it by using an unreleased title to enforce your point.
Also you mention GW2 in a negative way as a themepark game, but in the same paragraph you promote another themepark game and that being Wildstar.
I wasn't using Wildstar to bash GW2 I was using an unreleased title to bash another unreleased title... also notice how I said "hoping it will be decent"?? HOPING? In no way am I promoting/hyping it up. I just said Wildstar has open-world pvp which GW2 doesn't, which I hope will be good. Also, I only said the word themepark because I was quoting word for word the person I was replying to. I couldn't care less whether a game is a themepark or sandbox.
I can see how this appeals to some. But not to me, I also want meaningful PvP.
Also there is no progression in GW2. Can you imagine :P MMORPG without progression hahaha. Silly how the non-MMORPG crowd is taking over MMORPG's and how they change the genre.
But this is probably a stupid thing to say..
What an ignorant thing to say. GW2 has tons of progression; you're just stuck in the mindset that gear-stat is the only type of progression that there is.
For GW2 progression there is:
~~sPvP ranks (with gear skins tied to it, and even upcoming Legendary skins too),
~~WvW Ranks, with titles and WvW specific character ugprades
~~Achievements are a type of progression based on achievement score.
~~Normal levels of 1-80 is the most basic type of progression in nearly every MMO and it's there.
~~Living Story is a type of story progression, even if 'some' don't like it (although many others do).
~~Ascended gear is a tiered progression that takes months (1-2 months) to get the current available slots; and that's not including the upcoming armor release.
That is a reason i don't enjoy pvp in any of this genre.Sloppy tons of name tags littered all over the place,nothing is organized,just a mess,would not interest me in the least.
When i pvp'd back in the heyday of fps and world cyber games,it was organized and i never played more than 2 on 2 ,even 4vs4 seemed sloppy and unorganized.
Furthermore if you look at that video,everyone is just running around out in the open,that is so unrealistic.I would never just waltz out in the open for some sniper to pick me off,well there is no sniper so ya it even misses some of the main components of pvp which is weapon versatility,just so you don't have to walk right out in the open.
I somehow get the feeling those in rpg pvp just like seeing people around them,weather they are interacting with them or not and like the feeling that even a noob might get a lucky kill somewhere.
I watched some of those mmorgp pvp battles and it was hmm oh my god weak.There was this female chick who would literally turn her back often and sort of waddle away swinging her weapon at air ,then turn around and come back in and her team won lol.RPG's need to stick to CONTENT and organized game play,this sort of stuff turns me the other direction.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
WvW shouldn't be the only thing offered in this game. If they wanted this to be a PvP game, they would of taken out the whole story. The WvW is fine, but I got to lvl 80 within two weeks of release. The sad thing? I wasn't even trying. That is what killed this game for me.
That is a reason i don't enjoy pvp in any of this genre.Sloppy tons of name tags littered all over the place,nothing is organized,just a mess,would not interest me in the least.
When i pvp'd back in the heyday of fps and world cyber games,it was organized and i never played more than 2 on 2 ,even 4vs4 seemed sloppy and unorganized.
Furthermore if you look at that video,everyone is just running around out in the open,that is so unrealistic.I would never just waltz out in the open for some sniper to pick me off,well there is no sniper so ya it even misses some of the main components of pvp which is weapon versatility,just so you don't have to walk right out in the open.
I somehow get the feeling those in rpg pvp just like seeing people around them,weather they are interacting with them or not and like the feeling that even a noob might get a lucky kill somewhere.
I watched some of those mmorgp pvp battles and it was hmm oh my god weak.There was this female chick who would literally turn her back often and sort of waddle away swinging her weapon at air ,then turn around and come back in and her team won lol.RPG's need to stick to CONTENT and organized game play,this sort of stuff turns me the other direction.
Sorry, but if you take any classic movie that portrays a realistic war battle, it will no doubt show two opposite factions battling in the open. Of course you and I would "never just waltz out in the open" but that is not how war works. /shrug You can't kill others unless you are within range.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
wow so tactical... sounds like so much fun. Like you guys really make a difference when the larger zerg trumps all.
Cleary you don't know the game.
1 bunker elementalist can hold 6-12 players off for 10 minutes. 2 can hold 20. 2 + a Mesmer can hold off that same group of 20 for 15 minutes, Throw in any other 2 people and you wont lose any points because they can hold long enough for help to arrive.
You don't know a thing about BASIC tactics...you only know zerg which is why you talk about numbers and cant speak to a single thing about non-zerg mentality. Not to be expected from someone that doesn't know the game and more than likely requires developer made controls and hand holding.
Its simple. have people that know their class, have leaders that know how to use them and YOU control the map. You can only take a point and leave because you don't even know the basics.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
wow so tactical... sounds like so much fun. Like you guys really make a difference when the larger zerg trumps all.
Cleary you don't know the game.
1 bunker elementalist can hold 6-12 players off for 10 minutes. 2 can hold 20. 2 + a Mesmer can hold off that same group of 20 for 15 minutes, Throw in any other 2 people and you wont lose any points because they can hold long enough for help to arrive.
You don't know a thing about BASIC tactics...you only know zerg which is why you talk about numbers and cant speak to a single thing about non-zerg mentality. Not to be expected from someone that doesn't know the game and more than likely requires developer made controls and hand holding.
Its simple. have people that know their class, have leaders that know how to use them and YOU control the map. You can only take a point and leave because you don't even know the basics.
like I said. Wasting your time wasting other people's time. Sounds like so much fun bro, sounds like so much fun... I can see how this piece of trash can keep you thoroughly entertained.
That's a rather succinct definition of PvP in any medium.
Lets not generalize and insult in order to avoid addressing the points the post you responded to was refuting.
I wouldn't call actually making progress in terms of getting kills a waste of time. But I would call holding out a point for 20 minutes with neither side getting anywhere a waste of time.
The guy I was responding to talks about "tactics", but in reality there is no tactics in wvw because at the end of the day it's just a numbers/server prime time game no matter how much he tries to make it sound technical and strategic. There's tactics in an organised 8v8 GvG. Don't lump that in with the atrocity called wvw
I wouldn't call actually making progress in terms of getting kills a waste of time. But I would call holding out a point for 20 minutes with neither side getting anywhere a waste of time.
The guy I was responding to talks about "tactics", but in reality there is no tactics in wvw because at the end of the day it's just a numbers/server prime time game no matter how much he tries to make it sound technical and strategic. There's tactics in an organised 8v8 GvG. Don't lump that in with the atrocity called wvw
Except his example was of two people holding an area against twenty for 10-15 minutes, making an argument directly against the thing being simply a numbers game.
But by all means you can ignore what was actually stated instead in favor of repeating something that fails to address what you choose to quote and respond to.
I don't exactly agree with everything jtcgs says, as it tends to be unsubstantiated, but it's equally nonsensical to respond to something with a comment that has nothing to do with the quoted content.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I wouldn't call actually making progress in terms of getting kills a waste of time. But I would call holding out a point for 20 minutes with neither side getting anywhere a waste of time.
The guy I was responding to talks about "tactics", but in reality there is no tactics in wvw because at the end of the day it's just a numbers/server prime time game no matter how much he tries to make it sound technical and strategic. There's tactics in an organised 8v8 GvG. Don't lump that in with the atrocity called wvw
Except his example was of two people holding an area against twenty for 10-15 minutes, making an argument directly against the thing being simply a numbers game.
But by all means you can ignore what was actually stated instead in favor of repeating something that fails to address what you choose to quote and respond to.
I don't exactly agree with everything jtcgs says, as it tends to be unsubstantiated, but it's equally nonsensical to respond to something with a comment that has nothing to do with the quoted content.
Except his example was of two people holding an area against twenty for 10-15 minutes, making an argument directly against the thing being simply a numbers game. Yes with neither side getting anywhere, thus it's a waste of time. On a small scale that can happen, but as the numbers get larger "tactics" start to make less and less of a difference. Thus it's a numbers game.
If WvW isn't a numbers game but a tactics game how come the top 3, 6, 9 (12?) servers are never really changing? You know why're their positions are rarely changing out of their brackets? Because JQ, BG, and SR are the most heavily populated servers.
like I said. Wasting your time wasting other people's time. Sounds like so much fun bro, sounds like so much fun... I can see how this piece of trash can keep you thoroughly entertained.
Games are ENTERTAINMENT...its all a waste of time. Just more proof you have no idea what you are talking about.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by Shayyd80 I thought about getting into this. The video looks like alot of fun. I have GW2 but only dabbled in it. The pve content was boring to level with but the pvp is pretty fun. Havne't really tried wvw yet.
Always reserve judgement until all aspect of PvP is explored.
With that being said, you should try WvW and hammer the final nail in the coffin...
The is a good rule for you. I didn't like the PVP and didn't want to put good money in after bad money.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I don't exactly agree with everything jtcgs says, as it tends to be unsubstantiated, but it's equally nonsensical to respond to something with a comment that has nothing to do with the quoted content.
Then let the unsubstantiated parts be kicked in the arse...
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I don't exactly agree with everything jtcgs says, as it tends to be unsubstantiated, but it's equally nonsensical to respond to something with a comment that has nothing to do with the quoted content.
Then let the unsubstantiated parts be kicked in the arse...
I don't exactly agree with everything jtcgs says, as it tends to be unsubstantiated, but it's equally nonsensical to respond to something with a comment that has nothing to do with the quoted content.
Then let the unsubstantiated parts be kicked in the arse...
I had seen the first video before but not the second. Both are fun to watch but playing is so much better. I'm like the OP a bit I guess, the PvP in this game is some of the best.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Comments
I personally have always thought it was useless. You get nothing out of it, and the little time I get to spend playing on my computer I want it to be useful. IMHO it is way more fun and satisfying to kill an opposite faction player and gain some type of reward for it.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
So you are here promoting Wildstar and it's system that hasn't even been released yet. Sorry, that is funny. /shrug. I too am waiting for Wildstar but my expectations are much lower and I believe more realistic, because I can see it will be another "Clone". If I want WoW I just go and play it right now instead of waiting.
If you don't like GW2 that is acceptable, but don't try and bash it by using an unreleased title to enforce your point.
Also you mention GW2 in a negative way as a themepark game, but in the same paragraph you promote another themepark game and that being Wildstar.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I wasn't using Wildstar to bash GW2 I was using an unreleased title to bash another unreleased title... also notice how I said "hoping it will be decent"?? HOPING? In no way am I promoting/hyping it up. I just said Wildstar has open-world pvp which GW2 doesn't, which I hope will be good. Also, I only said the word themepark because I was quoting word for word the person I was replying to. I couldn't care less whether a game is a themepark or sandbox.
What an ignorant thing to say. GW2 has tons of progression; you're just stuck in the mindset that gear-stat is the only type of progression that there is.
For GW2 progression there is:
~~sPvP ranks (with gear skins tied to it, and even upcoming Legendary skins too),
~~WvW Ranks, with titles and WvW specific character ugprades
~~Achievements are a type of progression based on achievement score.
~~Normal levels of 1-80 is the most basic type of progression in nearly every MMO and it's there.
~~Living Story is a type of story progression, even if 'some' don't like it (although many others do).
~~Ascended gear is a tiered progression that takes months (1-2 months) to get the current available slots; and that's not including the upcoming armor release.
Don't play because I feel like my character is everyone elses. Everyone shouts the same things in combat (with the same exact voice).
Might be minor for most but I like being unique in that way.
One reason why I play: DCUO and FFXIV
So I should go to those forums and describe why I don't like those games?
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
That is a reason i don't enjoy pvp in any of this genre.Sloppy tons of name tags littered all over the place,nothing is organized,just a mess,would not interest me in the least.
When i pvp'd back in the heyday of fps and world cyber games,it was organized and i never played more than 2 on 2 ,even 4vs4 seemed sloppy and unorganized.
Furthermore if you look at that video,everyone is just running around out in the open,that is so unrealistic.I would never just waltz out in the open for some sniper to pick me off,well there is no sniper so ya it even misses some of the main components of pvp which is weapon versatility,just so you don't have to walk right out in the open.
I somehow get the feeling those in rpg pvp just like seeing people around them,weather they are interacting with them or not and like the feeling that even a noob might get a lucky kill somewhere.
I watched some of those mmorgp pvp battles and it was hmm oh my god weak.There was this female chick who would literally turn her back often and sort of waddle away swinging her weapon at air ,then turn around and come back in and her team won lol.RPG's need to stick to CONTENT and organized game play,this sort of stuff turns me the other direction.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Sorry, but if you take any classic movie that portrays a realistic war battle, it will no doubt show two opposite factions battling in the open. Of course you and I would "never just waltz out in the open" but that is not how war works. /shrug You can't kill others unless you are within range.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Some people lead servers, win WvW matches and WvW. People know them.
Others complain it is a mindless zerg fest or its coverage wars (probably the same that have raid schedules and whatnot) and lose their WvW matches.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Cleary you don't know the game.
1 bunker elementalist can hold 6-12 players off for 10 minutes. 2 can hold 20. 2 + a Mesmer can hold off that same group of 20 for 15 minutes, Throw in any other 2 people and you wont lose any points because they can hold long enough for help to arrive.
You don't know a thing about BASIC tactics...you only know zerg which is why you talk about numbers and cant speak to a single thing about non-zerg mentality. Not to be expected from someone that doesn't know the game and more than likely requires developer made controls and hand holding.
Its simple. have people that know their class, have leaders that know how to use them and YOU control the map. You can only take a point and leave because you don't even know the basics.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
like I said. Wasting your time wasting other people's time. Sounds like so much fun bro, sounds like so much fun... I can see how this piece of trash can keep you thoroughly entertained.
"Wasting your time wasting other people's time."
That's a rather succinct definition of PvP in any medium.
Lets not generalize and insult in order to avoid addressing the points the post you responded to was refuting.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I wouldn't call actually making progress in terms of getting kills a waste of time. But I would call holding out a point for 20 minutes with neither side getting anywhere a waste of time.
The guy I was responding to talks about "tactics", but in reality there is no tactics in wvw because at the end of the day it's just a numbers/server prime time game no matter how much he tries to make it sound technical and strategic. There's tactics in an organised 8v8 GvG. Don't lump that in with the atrocity called wvw
spot on
Except his example was of two people holding an area against twenty for 10-15 minutes, making an argument directly against the thing being simply a numbers game.
But by all means you can ignore what was actually stated instead in favor of repeating something that fails to address what you choose to quote and respond to.
I don't exactly agree with everything jtcgs says, as it tends to be unsubstantiated, but it's equally nonsensical to respond to something with a comment that has nothing to do with the quoted content.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Except his example was of two people holding an area against twenty for 10-15 minutes, making an argument directly against the thing being simply a numbers game. Yes with neither side getting anywhere, thus it's a waste of time. On a small scale that can happen, but as the numbers get larger "tactics" start to make less and less of a difference. Thus it's a numbers game.
If WvW isn't a numbers game but a tactics game how come the top 3, 6, 9 (12?) servers are never really changing? You know why're their positions are rarely changing out of their brackets? Because JQ, BG, and SR are the most heavily populated servers.
Gate Wars- sorry WvW isn't really that fun. It's an unbalanced zerg.
I play GW2 for the structured, balanced PvP and for the story lines.
You make me like charity
Games are ENTERTAINMENT...its all a waste of time. Just more proof you have no idea what you are talking about.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
The is a good rule for you. I didn't like the PVP and didn't want to put good money in after bad money.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Then let the unsubstantiated parts be kicked in the arse...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-919RMwyfnk
4 vs 30 video proof right there.
GW2 just plain went over the heads of those used to not having to think.
Edited to add, here is your mindless zerg vs a much smaller organized group
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLeYYdU8IYA
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
No not really.... Still unsubstantiated as it isn't the norm....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I had seen the first video before but not the second. Both are fun to watch but playing is so much better. I'm like the OP a bit I guess, the PvP in this game is some of the best.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.