Just don't PVP until you catch up to the people who paid for the exp pots. People forget that a level advantage attained from buying exp pots is in every way P2W.
Just don't PVP until you catch up to the people who paid for the exp pots. People forget that a level advantage attained from buying exp pots is in every way P2W.
Are you folks that new to the genre?
It sure is...if you have no idea what p2w really is.
I agree, excessive P2W is a deal breaker for me. Marvel Heroes arpg is the same way, pay for experience gain, convenience items, vanity gear, pets and additional storage. It's annoying when the games core is set up to suck you into their store.
So in Lineage II, the world's grindiest game (Or it used to before GoD update), if I could buy a buff that gave me +25% exp that wouldn't be PAYing to win? Keep in mind that most of your power in Lineage II is from your level. Also keep in mind that in Chronicle II people were getting like 1-3% exp per hour near max level.
Do any of you guys actually PvP? Level is a major factor in winning, unless everyone has already reached the level cap.
The way I play tends to leave xp boosters clogging up my backpack, because I rarely if ever use them!
Undecided on how I feel about getting better drops from bought items!
btw, is the game point of view stuck in a downward angle, if so, then this is most likely what would kill it for me, I prefer to have an occasional horizon and the ability to see some things from a distance to get my bearings.
The way I play tends to leave xp boosters clogging up my backpack, because I rarely if ever use them!
Undecided on how I feel about getting better drops from bought items!
btw, is the game point of view stuck in a downward angle, if so, then this is most likely what would kill it for me, I prefer to have an occasional horizon and the ability to see some things from a distance to get my bearings.
yes its top down or 2d or diablo style. Its basically an Ultima clone
As said, boosts are not P2W. Games today need to be designed for people with different amounts of time available to "invest" into the game. Nolifers can still play 24/7 without paying a penny and rule. Those with full-time jobs and families can opt to pay RL money to keep their progress fluid. There is nothing wrong with that.
Let's get back to this when they start selling BiS items through the cash shop.
Originally posted by KuviskiNow this information is extremely essential for people interested in the payment model the game uses, and after reading this, I quickly made my decision: I probably wouldn't be playing this game.I am completely fine with sub fees, I am willing to pay money for content (expansion packs). But I am not willing to pay for increased drops/experience in a world where I compete in XP gains/the economy with the non-subscription players. I am also not willing to play a game that sells useful items (other than vanity) for real money.I think the F2P side and the P2P side should be kept separate, on different servers, much like another browser game, RuneScape, did it. And essentially Hunted Cow Studios' decision to take the P2W route made my decision of not playing this game. Its a shame, it really is, that the P2W model ruins otherwise promising games. Does anyone else feel the same in this case?
But if you are too lazy to spend a few more hours to get to max level and raise your skills in a game. Then this is clearly not for you.
I don't see how this is related to the issue.
I would be completely happy if the game didn't even have a F2P option myself, I would play it if it was subscription only. I am willing to pay money for content.
What I am not willing to pay for are things such as increased XP or money rates to advance faster than others.
The system Eldevin uses is precisely a pay-to-win system. The subscribers don't pay their sub because they get more content that way after seeing the free side of the game, they pay it to make their characters more powerful faster. And this is where my problem lies with the model Eldevin uses: I would personally not play a game with a system like this in place.
If you've created some personal competition against the other players to see who gets to cap faster, then I can see how you'd consider this pay to win. However, please keep in mind that has nothing to do with the design of the game or its business model.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So in Lineage II, the world's grindiest game (Or it used to before GoD update), if I could buy a buff that gave me +25% exp that wouldn't be PAYing to win? Keep in mind that most of your power in Lineage II is from your level. Also keep in mind that in Chronicle II people were getting like 1-3% exp per hour near max level.
Do any of you guys actually PvP? Level is a major factor in winning, unless everyone has already reached the level cap.
Is Eldevin a game where it takes a year to get to the level cap? I ask that because quite a few are praising it as a UO style game, and in UO (prior to AoS) you could have a very effective PVP character inside of a could of days. The difference between a guy with 80s across his main skills and the 7xGM (7 skills at 100) was minimal outside of the GM title and bragging rights. It definitely didn't determine the outcome of battle.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
lmao .. what a waste on internet space ...p2w ...... Eldevin ... aint that friggin rich ........ thats 1..
2. if you cant afford to invest a few dolllors in a leisure activity , you may want to focus on other parts of your life , rather than pissing about a couple dollars on a game forum ... lmfao .... wow .. people need to get there priorities straight ...
We are aware everyone has different opinions on pay to win. We've worked really hard on this game and think we've made it really fair to players who want to pay and those who don't. What I'd love is for you guys to come try the game this Saturday and decide for yourselves.
We are aware everyone has different opinions on pay to win. We've worked really hard on this game and think we've made it really fair to players who want to pay and those who don't. What I'd love is for you guys to come try the game this Saturday and decide for yourselves.
you have built a great game .. whiners will always whine becuase they want everything handed to them .... they will fill your forums with rage and tears over a couple backpack spaces because they think they are entitled to it ..
We are aware everyone has different opinions on pay to win. We've worked really hard on this game and think we've made it really fair to players who want to pay and those who don't. What I'd love is for you guys to come try the game this Saturday and decide for yourselves.
you have built a great game .. whiners will always whine becuase they want everything handed to them .... they will fill your forums with rage and tears over a couple backpack spaces because they think they are entitled to it ..
I agree. They are doing a great job with this game! I'll be there Saturday for sure.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
As someone that has played quite a few f2p games this one doesn't seem very p2w to me, everything seems rather reasonable, it reminds me a little of DDO f2p system actually.
You want to see p2w games, go play some PW games or aeriagames.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
It is not P2W it is only giving the subscribers the chance to take a shortcut to something inevitable you are getting if you play the game often enough.
The whole xp pot argument is pretty stupid. In a lvl based system someone higher lvl always has an advantage in pvp, till max lvl. That includes anyone with more time than you. The xp pot doesn't give you any advantage other players can't overcome through time played and someone that is your level isn't at a disadvantage when they fight you.
The whole argument is a knee-jerk reaction to..." but you said it was free"
So in Lineage II, the world's grindiest game (Or it used to before GoD update), if I could buy a buff that gave me +25% exp that wouldn't be PAYing to win? Keep in mind that most of your power in Lineage II is from your level. Also keep in mind that in Chronicle II people were getting like 1-3% exp per hour near max level.
Do any of you guys actually PvP? Level is a major factor in winning, unless everyone has already reached the level cap.
Is Eldevin a game where it takes a year to get to the level cap? I ask that because quite a few are praising it as a UO style game, and in UO (prior to AoS) you could have a very effective PVP character inside of a could of days. The difference between a guy with 80s across his main skills and the 7xGM (7 skills at 100) was minimal outside of the GM title and bragging rights. It definitely didn't determine the outcome of battle.
People are saying 2-3 months for the average player to reach the level cap of 45, or is it 50 now? Either way, I can't attest to that, but there are exp potions that you can buy for cash, as well as bag space. If you subscribe you get +25% exp, craft/gather exp, gold and valor. "Convenience items" are also in the cash shop, whatever those may be. Oh yeah and if you subscribe you also get rested exp when logged out.
Never played UO, but level matters due to attribute/talent points. Either way, I will be subscribing for the +exp powers then off to the PvP areas I go for some fun.
I love supporting a game once Ive played it and decided Im going to stick around; I don't like rested xp and exp boosts and such so a sub idea turns me off. I dont mind taking time to reach max level. If this is true with a sub I would most likely not do a sub and just donate . Im sure that is possible somehow.
I don't think this feels like pay-to-win (getting stuff non-payers can't). But the OP does say, "I think the F2P side and the P2P side should be kept separate, on different servers, much like another browser game, RuneScape, did it. And essentially Hunted Cow Studios' decision to take the P2W route made my decision of not playing this game" and I like the notion of keeping the payers on a channel/server or whatever and the non-payers separate.
I also feel for the Dev guy in this thread. I think we SHOULD all go and check out the game Saturday and support this new mmorpg title from a small studio. Even if we crash the servers while doing so.
XP pots will always be pay to win in mmorpg's, however you turn it around
And i got 2 friends who won't join because of it
The sad thing is that Eldevin didn't need to sell these XP boosts
Cosmetics, storage, backpacks would have been enough :
the smart way "Path of Exile" promoted their cash shop, and they are racking big money without these stupid xp boosts.
Eldevin is a Great game but the cash shop is a disaster imo
XP boosts are not P2W. They just help people with less time get to level cap. What's gonna happen when PoE introduces XP potions? Will you stop playing it? (its only a matter of time till they do)
The only thing I wouldn't agree with would be the fact that I could purchase an exp boost ( I am however fine with the fact the subscribers get it though). If leveling in this game is anything like Runescape, then simply being a higher level in a skill is enough to dominate in PvP, although PvE should be fine. (only reason I say that is due to all of the comments made comparing Runescape/Ultima Online to this game.)
Overall it seems like a good game.
On a side note, the face textures kind of creep me out.
Originally posted by KuviskiNow this information is extremely essential for people interested in the payment model the game uses, and after reading this, I quickly made my decision: I probably wouldn't be playing this game.I am completely fine with sub fees, I am willing to pay money for content (expansion packs). But I am not willing to pay for increased drops/experience in a world where I compete in XP gains/the economy with the non-subscription players. I am also not willing to play a game that sells useful items (other than vanity) for real money.I think the F2P side and the P2P side should be kept separate, on different servers, much like another browser game, RuneScape, did it. And essentially Hunted Cow Studios' decision to take the P2W route made my decision of not playing this game. Its a shame, it really is, that the P2W model ruins otherwise promising games. Does anyone else feel the same in this case?
But if you are too lazy to spend a few more hours to get to max level and raise your skills in a game. Then this is clearly not for you.
I don't see how this is related to the issue.
I would be completely happy if the game didn't even have a F2P option myself, I would play it if it was subscription only. I am willing to pay money for content.
What I am not willing to pay for are things such as increased XP or money rates to advance faster than others.
The system Eldevin uses is precisely a pay-to-win system. The subscribers don't pay their sub because they get more content that way after seeing the free side of the game, they pay it to make their characters more powerful faster. And this is where my problem lies with the model Eldevin uses: I would personally not play a game with a system like this in place.
It ties directly into what your complaining about, subs get increased exp/drops, you do not want to pay because of this bonus given to paying members so it must mean your also less likely to put in the extra effort needed to keep up with a paid up member.
Comments
Just don't PVP until you catch up to the people who paid for the exp pots. People forget that a level advantage attained from buying exp pots is in every way P2W.
Are you folks that new to the genre?
It sure is...if you have no idea what p2w really is.
So in Lineage II, the world's grindiest game (Or it used to before GoD update), if I could buy a buff that gave me +25% exp that wouldn't be PAYing to win? Keep in mind that most of your power in Lineage II is from your level. Also keep in mind that in Chronicle II people were getting like 1-3% exp per hour near max level.
Do any of you guys actually PvP? Level is a major factor in winning, unless everyone has already reached the level cap.
The way I play tends to leave xp boosters clogging up my backpack, because I rarely if ever use them!
Undecided on how I feel about getting better drops from bought items!
btw, is the game point of view stuck in a downward angle, if so, then this is most likely what would kill it for me, I prefer to have an occasional horizon and the ability to see some things from a distance to get my bearings.
yes its top down or 2d or diablo style. Its basically an Ultima clone
edit: I dont mean that as a bad thing
As said, boosts are not P2W. Games today need to be designed for people with different amounts of time available to "invest" into the game. Nolifers can still play 24/7 without paying a penny and rule. Those with full-time jobs and families can opt to pay RL money to keep their progress fluid. There is nothing wrong with that.
Let's get back to this when they start selling BiS items through the cash shop.
you know that old saying, you get nothing for free?
learn it, live it.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
If you've created some personal competition against the other players to see who gets to cap faster, then I can see how you'd consider this pay to win. However, please keep in mind that has nothing to do with the design of the game or its business model.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Is Eldevin a game where it takes a year to get to the level cap? I ask that because quite a few are praising it as a UO style game, and in UO (prior to AoS) you could have a very effective PVP character inside of a could of days. The difference between a guy with 80s across his main skills and the 7xGM (7 skills at 100) was minimal outside of the GM title and bragging rights. It definitely didn't determine the outcome of battle.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
lmao .. what a waste on internet space ...p2w ...... Eldevin ... aint that friggin rich ........ thats 1..
2. if you cant afford to invest a few dolllors in a leisure activity , you may want to focus on other parts of your life , rather than pissing about a couple dollars on a game forum ... lmfao .... wow .. people need to get there priorities straight ...
We are aware everyone has different opinions on pay to win. We've worked really hard on this game and think we've made it really fair to players who want to pay and those who don't. What I'd love is for you guys to come try the game this Saturday and decide for yourselves.
Currently working around the clock on Eldevin
you have built a great game .. whiners will always whine becuase they want everything handed to them .... they will fill your forums with rage and tears over a couple backpack spaces because they think they are entitled to it ..
I agree. They are doing a great job with this game! I'll be there Saturday for sure.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
As someone that has played quite a few f2p games this one doesn't seem very p2w to me, everything seems rather reasonable, it reminds me a little of DDO f2p system actually.
You want to see p2w games, go play some PW games or aeriagames.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
The whole xp pot argument is pretty stupid. In a lvl based system someone higher lvl always has an advantage in pvp, till max lvl. That includes anyone with more time than you. The xp pot doesn't give you any advantage other players can't overcome through time played and someone that is your level isn't at a disadvantage when they fight you.
The whole argument is a knee-jerk reaction to..." but you said it was free"
People are saying 2-3 months for the average player to reach the level cap of 45, or is it 50 now? Either way, I can't attest to that, but there are exp potions that you can buy for cash, as well as bag space. If you subscribe you get +25% exp, craft/gather exp, gold and valor. "Convenience items" are also in the cash shop, whatever those may be. Oh yeah and if you subscribe you also get rested exp when logged out.
Never played UO, but level matters due to attribute/talent points. Either way, I will be subscribing for the +exp powers then off to the PvP areas I go for some fun.
Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8POVoJ8fdOseuJ4U1ZX-oA
XP pots will always be pay to win in mmorpg's, however you turn it around
And i got 2 friends who won't join because of it
The sad thing is that Eldevin didn't need to sell these XP boosts
Cosmetics, storage, backpacks would have been enough :
the smart way "Path of Exile" promoted their cash shop, and they are racking big money without these stupid xp boosts.
Eldevin is a Great game but the cash shop is a disaster imo
****************************
Playing : Uncharted Waters Online
****************************
XP boosts are not P2W. They just help people with less time get to level cap. What's gonna happen when PoE introduces XP potions? Will you stop playing it? (its only a matter of time till they do)
The only thing I wouldn't agree with would be the fact that I could purchase an exp boost ( I am however fine with the fact the subscribers get it though). If leveling in this game is anything like Runescape, then simply being a higher level in a skill is enough to dominate in PvP, although PvE should be fine. (only reason I say that is due to all of the comments made comparing Runescape/Ultima Online to this game.)
Overall it seems like a good game.
On a side note, the face textures kind of creep me out.
It ties directly into what your complaining about, subs get increased exp/drops, you do not want to pay because of this bonus given to paying members so it must mean your also less likely to put in the extra effort needed to keep up with a paid up member.