I do believe NCSoft has already proved that you can operate and run a successful game just on box sales with Guild Wars 1. Not to mention the fact that Nexon is one of the 3 most profitable gaming companies in the world all on F2P games. I can say that HATING F2P games.
Now go look at Activision/Blizzards earnings reports where it shows you Warcrafts operating costs and profits. Operations are laughably low and they have more servers around the world than just about any 3 games combined.
Wait you say you dislike cashshops/f2p, then argue on behalf of Arenanet's model?
[mod edit]
Some people have the ability to not like something yet admit that it can work. Big world out there you know, filled with all kinds of things that you may not like yet still exist. Crazy huh? Also, I said I hate F2P games, didn't say anything about cash shops, [mod edit]
It just makes no sense why you'd want that kind of model if you dislike that kind of model. BTW GW1 was not just run on box sales and box sales alone.
The start of this conversation right here.
I stated nothing about liking or wanting a cash shop and only pointed out that it has been done. You added the rest and you did it because you were butthurt over me saying that many TES fans are talking bad about the game. in fact, the three of you continuing this part of the conversation with your distractions and accusations all didn't like those comments.
Looks like the board warriors are having some fun.
Why would I be hurt if people don't like TESO? that's just asinine. I was asking you if you judge games based on forums, had nothing to do with what was said on the forum lmao..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So a lot of people are complaining about paying $60 for a game plus a sub so I have a suggestion, come to Australia. The same game will be sold here for $100.
Some people have the ability to not like something yet admit that it can work. Big world out there you know, filled with all kinds of things that you may not like yet still exist. Crazy huh? Also, I said I hate F2P games, didn't say anything about cash shops [mod edit]
By saying you hate F2P, it seems like you just said exactly how you feel about cash shops, or is it some other aspect of F2P that generates your hatred?
No there are more things to dislike about f2p then cash shops
- ruined communities
- no more customer support
Etc etc
Actually to be clear, I do not dislike F2P games because of the communities as WoW had a very large community of trolls and elitist jerks.
I dislike F2P games because they nickel and dime you or end up P2W.
Example: Dragons Prophet is a decent game, During my short stint of playing I had no issue with the community but saw that packspace was vastly limited. In order to bring just your own main pack up to par with most other games it would cost around $3.00, then for what would be a second pack in other games it would be $5.00. by the time you get the same amount of pack space as any P2P games, you would have to spend around $30.00. Then you end up doing the same for the bank...and then the dragon lair and so on. and I am only talking about freaking item space.
Just to be clear here ;-)
Soooo... you do hate cash shops.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Some people have the ability to not like something yet admit that it can work. Big world out there you know, filled with all kinds of things that you may not like yet still exist. Crazy huh? Also, I said I hate F2P games, didn't say anything about cash shops [mod edit]
By saying you hate F2P, it seems like you just said exactly how you feel about cash shops, or is it some other aspect of F2P that generates your hatred?
No there are more things to dislike about f2p then cash shops
- ruined communities
- no more customer support
Etc etc
Actually to be clear, I do not dislike F2P games because of the communities as WoW had a very large community of trolls and elitist jerks.
I dislike F2P games because they nickel and dime you or end up P2W.
Example: Dragons Prophet is a decent game, During my short stint of playing I had no issue with the community but saw that packspace was vastly limited. In order to bring just your own main pack up to par with most other games it would cost around $3.00, then for what would be a second pack in other games it would be $5.00. by the time you get the same amount of pack space as any P2P games, you would have to spend around $30.00. Then you end up doing the same for the bank...and then the dragon lair and so on. and I am only talking about freaking item space.
Just to be clear here ;-)
Soooo... you do hate cash shops.
Nope, WoW has a cash shop with none of those things. GW1 had a cash shop with none of those things. All cash shops are not the same.
Those are F2P game cash shops I am talking about in my post. Seems to be a lot of people on this thread that act as if the world is black and white.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Some people have the ability to not like something yet admit that it can work. Big world out there you know, filled with all kinds of things that you may not like yet still exist. Crazy huh? Also, I said I hate F2P games, didn't say anything about cash shops [mod edit]
By saying you hate F2P, it seems like you just said exactly how you feel about cash shops, or is it some other aspect of F2P that generates your hatred?
No there are more things to dislike about f2p then cash shops
- ruined communities
- no more customer support
Etc etc
Which one could say about subscription games, too. There is zero factual basis to that. It's fine to dislike something as not everything is for everyone, but making crap up doesn't help. I'm interested in your answer to Distopia's question.
Some truth in what he is saying.
Sure saying hating f2p seems bit harsh, but it have bring alot of more players to mmo's who are less interesting in community or even the game they just consume it real fast and hop on to next new f2p mmo, and its more easy to leave f2p then P2P which build alot better communitys and caring for the game.
Always exceptions offcorse but majority is like this thats a fact you all should know by now, unless you have lived under a rock for past 15 years.
But true to each his own.
I don't doubt that's what you want to believe, but your contention that P2P "build a lot better communitys and caring for the game" is your personal belief, not fact.
The worst part is that right now
- you will not research this
- you will not question your stance
- you will not chance that your belief may be wrong
And as a result, you will either not reply or you will reply with more unsupported beliefs to support the above belief. I'll leave you to your cult now.
There is no factual basis to the clam that 'ruined communities'and 'no more customer support' are any greater an issue than they are in subscription games, let alone points of distinction between the two models.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Some people have the ability to not like something yet admit that it can work. Big world out there you know, filled with all kinds of things that you may not like yet still exist. Crazy huh? Also, I said I hate F2P games, didn't say anything about cash shops [mod edit]
By saying you hate F2P, it seems like you just said exactly how you feel about cash shops, or is it some other aspect of F2P that generates your hatred?
No there are more things to dislike about f2p then cash shops
- ruined communities
- no more customer support
Etc etc
Actually to be clear, I do not dislike F2P games because of the communities as WoW had a very large community of trolls and elitist jerks.
I dislike F2P games because they nickel and dime you or end up P2W.
Example: Dragons Prophet is a decent game, During my short stint of playing I had no issue with the community but saw that packspace was vastly limited. In order to bring just your own main pack up to par with most other games it would cost around $3.00, then for what would be a second pack in other games it would be $5.00. by the time you get the same amount of pack space as any P2P games, you would have to spend around $30.00. Then you end up doing the same for the bank...and then the dragon lair and so on. and I am only talking about freaking item space.
Just to be clear here ;-)
Soooo... you do hate cash shops.
Nope, WoW has a cash shop with none of those things. GW1 had a cash shop with none of those things. All cash shops are not the same.
Those are F2P game cash shops I am talking about in my post. Seems to be a lot of people on this thread that act as if the world is black and white.
Dragon Prophet is one of the worst cash shops out there, so I agree with you on that one. As for black and white, you just painted all F2P cash shops with the same brush to support one argument, but then supported another argument with "all cash shops are not the same."
GOOD JOB, MATE!!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
MAYBE I'd go for one of those, all 3? Not a chance. Buy the game for a high price, pay a high end subscription rate, THEN you still have the problems with a likely pay to win situation. Sounds like more of an investment than most REAL property.
Originally posted by Trillistar MAYBE I'd go for one of those, all 3? Not a chance. Buy the game for a high price, pay a high end subscription rate, THEN you still have the problems with a likely pay to win situation. Sounds like more of an investment than most REAL property.
thats not a high price for a quality game, and subscription fee, 15 a month is doable, just look at EVE, WOW.
unless you have no job that is, and if thats the case, id suggest getting one.
not sure what it is with you self entitlement types.
you want free, go play any one of the oh, 50 FTP crap games out there, for the first time in a while an established IP, with what? 20 years of lore is coming to the mmo world.
you pay for what you get, and im betting that TESO is going to step up to the plate, which is more than i can say any game in the last 6 years has done.
you want free, go play any one of the oh, 50 FTP crap games out there, for the first time in a while an established IP, with what? 20 years of lore is coming to the mmo world.
Not since LOTR, AOC, WAR, SWTOR, or DC Universe has an established IP used a PTP model.
Not that I dislike the PTP model, but thats not making your case very well.
Waiting for this game to come out and I've been reading and watching youtube videos about it...one mentioned what I stated in the title. $60 box, $15 a month and ontop of that microtransactions, that seems way too greedy to me.
I understand that MMOs have a very high quit rate these days, which is why they are trying to go the way GW2 did with a high box price but should they not offer a lower sub fee to offset this large box price? I mean this really stinks of cash grab to me, like they know how the wind is gonna go and getting as much cash upfront as they can till it happens.
They are trying to have everything, full price box and a full price sub and microtransactions. I mean that's really slimey to me.
This type of subscription model has been going on for decades. Is it not possible that perhaps today's gamers are just whiny little babies that want everything for free?
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Actually yes, with GW2 they did make a profit from sales alone. They sold over 3 million copies which brought them way over the production costs and they haven't even sold it in several markets yet.
er, greate, how much were production costs, I don't find that. Just that they sold 3 million and that a profit was made.
So if they covered production costs but only had a profit of 10 million profit then that's not necessarily great. Not trying to be a hater but I am interested in specifics as it pertains to this discussion.
I mean, it would be very telling if GW2 was making significant money. But as I said , One can make a profit and still be in trouble.
So they made 180 million. Not sure how much of that they actually get to keep.
But for argument's sake, if the game cost 100 million to make then that's pretty good. If the game cost 170 million to make then that's not that great.
if it costs 60 million then obviously that's pretty amazing.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Sub fees are a complete ripoff, not interested in playing a game that has one. It made sense when UO and EQ came out because bandwidth actually was expensive back then. Now it is just them trying to juke you out of your money before they eventually go F2P a year down the road.
Eve is the one exception considering how their skill system works, they almost have to charge to make it work.
I feel the complete opposite. Prefer games with Sub Models. The only thing I wish they would do is make it the same as a Netflix subscription to allow people with less money than me to not feel the burden of the bill each month.
On the whole idea of 60$ is to much for a sub mmo is ridiculous to me. Im happy if I spend 60$ on a game and get ATLEAST 15-20 hours out of it. MMos generally offer much more content than other games so I should be fine.
The sub model is IMO the most fair model out there. You buy the game and pay so much a month for it and you get FULL access to everything. Thats if they dont add a fluff filled cash shop. Which if they do im out. Looks like they wont though.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
On the whole idea of 60$ is to much for a sub mmo is ridiculous to me. Im happy if I spend 60$ on a game and get ATLEAST 15-20 hours out of it. MMos generally offer much more content than other games so I should be fine.
The sub model is IMO the most fair model out there. You buy the game and pay so much a month for it and you get FULL access to everything. Thats if they dont add a fluff filled cash shop. Which if they do im out. Looks like they wont though.
I don't think the sub model is the issue, I think the issue is at face value it appears they are charging a monthly fee for a game very much like other games on the market using similar mechanics and doing it for free. Unless this game is insanely better than GW2 I don't see how you take players from GW2 who are playing it for free or get new players to choose between the two when they are so similar.
Really all people have so far is interviews and Beta footage like the Skill system video they just showed on this site, which looks a lot like GW2 to me. It is hard to trust the opinions of people in beta since most of them were looking for a DAOC ish RVR game going in and care little about how alike or different it is from other games. At least with GW2 you could just buy digital copy and if you didnt like ti get a refund, in this case the box comes with a 15 a month fee.
"Sure, it's all gravy." No need to pay for benefits, commercial real estate, salaries, operating expenses and any other expenses that business incur. If "people" would just start looking into the numbers you would get a better idea as to what salaries and operating costs are in a particular area. All this stuff is out there.
What you are saying is that the intiial "$60" automatically pays for all their development costs AND allows them to operate for another 3.5 years in order to put out another expansion.
If a game costs $60.00 and say they sell 1 million copies that's "$60 million". Doesn't even cover the costs of some of these games let alone allow them to operate for another x years. And they don't even keep all that!
I do believe NCSoft has already proved that you can operate and run a successful game just on box sales with Guild Wars 1. Not to mention the fact that Nexon is one of the 3 most profitable gaming companies in the world all on F2P games. I can say that HATING F2P games.
Now go look at Activision/Blizzards earnings reports where it shows you Warcrafts operating costs and profits. Operations are laughably low and they have more servers around the world than just about any 3 games combined.
But apparently not GW2. I don't know what GW 1 cost to make but if you look at a game like Skyrim they were able to make their game for much less than what these mmo's cost and we can see they get to keep quite a bit of their profit.
All GW2 has proven is that you still need a cash shop for a b2p game.
They probably could have, but they wanted to try a different approach this time. With GW1 they depended on box sales of successive campaigns to keep them funded. The reason they gave for that was because it was too exhaustive to do, which I wouldn't call out as a lie.
On the whole idea of 60$ is to much for a sub mmo is ridiculous to me. Im happy if I spend 60$ on a game and get ATLEAST 15-20 hours out of it. MMos generally offer much more content than other games so I should be fine.
The sub model is IMO the most fair model out there. You buy the game and pay so much a month for it and you get FULL access to everything. Thats if they dont add a fluff filled cash shop. Which if they do im out. Looks like they wont though.
I don't think the sub model is the issue, I think the issue is at face value it appears they are charging a monthly fee for a game very much like other games on the market using similar mechanics and doing it for free. Unless this game is insanely better than GW2 I don't see how you take players from GW2 who are playing it for free or get new players to choose between the two when they are so similar.
Really all people have so far is interviews and Beta footage like the Skill system video they just showed on this site, which looks a lot like GW2 to me. It is hard to trust the opinions of people in beta since most of them were looking for a DAOC ish RVR game going in and care little about how alike or different it is from other games. At least with GW2 you could just buy digital copy and if you didnt like ti get a refund, in this case the box comes with a 15 a month fee.
I'm not sure what you're smokin if you think the skill system in GW2 comes even close to ESO. One of the biggest knocks against GW2 is the lack of that feeling of skill progression throughout the entire leveling process, not just early on. Also, the personal story was some of the weakest crap I've seen in an MMO. They should have removed that altogether. The only thing I see as similar PVE wise with both games is the desire to keep the UI simple.
On the whole idea of 60$ is to much for a sub mmo is ridiculous to me. Im happy if I spend 60$ on a game and get ATLEAST 15-20 hours out of it. MMos generally offer much more content than other games so I should be fine.
The sub model is IMO the most fair model out there. You buy the game and pay so much a month for it and you get FULL access to everything. Thats if they dont add a fluff filled cash shop. Which if they do im out. Looks like they wont though.
I don't think the sub model is the issue, I think the issue is at face value it appears they are charging a monthly fee for a game very much like other games on the market using similar mechanics and doing it for free. Unless this game is insanely better than GW2 I don't see how you take players from GW2 who are playing it for free or get new players to choose between the two when they are so similar.
Really all people have so far is interviews and Beta footage like the Skill system video they just showed on this site, which looks a lot like GW2 to me. It is hard to trust the opinions of people in beta since most of them were looking for a DAOC ish RVR game going in and care little about how alike or different it is from other games. At least with GW2 you could just buy digital copy and if you didnt like ti get a refund, in this case the box comes with a 15 a month fee.
I'm not sure what you're smokin if you think the skill system in GW2 comes even close to ESO. One of the biggest knocks against GW2 is the lack of that feeling of skill progression throughout the entire leveling process, not just early on. Also, the personal story was some of the weakest crap I've seen in an MMO. They should have removed that altogether. The only thing I see as similar PVE wise with both games is the desire to keep the UI simple.
yes becouse you played ESO and know how the skill system is in game
its just an illusion of choice you have in ESO in the end there will be only 2 viable builds
To be honest for me 60 $ is quite a lot if this is last price then they will lose some some people. I can manage to pay a monthly sub with 10$ 15 $ but 60 $ for box I can't considering also the fact that next year a lot of game will be released
If there is a pack for poor people 30 $ box and one month in it I will buy this pack . Plus I'm wow fan so I'm used to this price
30 $ expansion 15$ month.
And yeah I'm poor and I don't have a full time job and I can't ask parents to give me money for a game.....
To be honest for me 60 $ is quite a lot if this is last price then they will lose some some people. I can manage to pay a monthly sub with 10$ 15 $ but 60 $ for box I can't considering also the fact that next year a lot of game will be released
If there is a pack for poor people 30 $ box and one month in it I will buy this pack . Plus I'm wow fan so I'm used to this price
30 $ expansion 15$ month.
And yeah I'm poor and I don't have a full time job and I can't ask parents to give me money for a game.....
This might sound harsh, but if you can't spend $60 on a video game you plan to play for several months you should consider what you're doing with your free time.
To be honest for me 60 $ is quite a lot if this is last price then they will lose some some people. I can manage to pay a monthly sub with 10$ 15 $ but 60 $ for box I can't considering also the fact that next year a lot of game will be released
If there is a pack for poor people 30 $ box and one month in it I will buy this pack . Plus I'm wow fan so I'm used to this price
30 $ expansion 15$ month.
And yeah I'm poor and I don't have a full time job and I can't ask parents to give me money for a game.....
This might sound harsh, but if you can't spend $60 on a video game you plan to play for several months you should consider what you're doing with your free time.
i started with the eso games with Daggerfall my fave one of all and i was hyped to have eso mmo was so happy then they sead sub for the day and age subs are old school not relevant to are economy. i been mmoing from the time UO came out paid 1000 in subs. but my point is this game is not worth a sub they copied there combat system and it boring and nothing lke a elder scrolls game tab targeted twitch system just is not good for this game im very sad with what they done to the game for what it could have been. they are throwing so much crap at us every other day to like there game and buy it wel its not worth the sub at all yes its a beautiful world and if it was buy to play i could spends 100s in a cash shop just for outfits and xp boosts for my toons but do to what you get for your buck they will not get my sub
Comments
Why would I be hurt if people don't like TESO? that's just asinine. I was asking you if you judge games based on forums, had nothing to do with what was said on the forum lmao..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I thought I made that pretty clear lol. Oh well.
Soooo... you do hate cash shops.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Nope, WoW has a cash shop with none of those things. GW1 had a cash shop with none of those things. All cash shops are not the same.
Those are F2P game cash shops I am talking about in my post. Seems to be a lot of people on this thread that act as if the world is black and white.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I don't doubt that's what you want to believe, but your contention that P2P "build a lot better communitys and caring for the game" is your personal belief, not fact.
The worst part is that right now
And as a result, you will either not reply or you will reply with more unsupported beliefs to support the above belief. I'll leave you to your cult now.
There is no factual basis to the clam that 'ruined communities' and 'no more customer support' are any greater an issue than they are in subscription games, let alone points of distinction between the two models.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Dragon Prophet is one of the worst cash shops out there, so I agree with you on that one. As for black and white, you just painted all F2P cash shops with the same brush to support one argument, but then supported another argument with "all cash shops are not the same."
GOOD JOB, MATE!!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
thats not a high price for a quality game, and subscription fee, 15 a month is doable, just look at EVE, WOW.
unless you have no job that is, and if thats the case, id suggest getting one.
not sure what it is with you self entitlement types.
you want free, go play any one of the oh, 50 FTP crap games out there, for the first time in a while an established IP, with what? 20 years of lore is coming to the mmo world.
you pay for what you get, and im betting that TESO is going to step up to the plate, which is more than i can say any game in the last 6 years has done.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
Not since LOTR, AOC, WAR, SWTOR, or DC Universe has an established IP used a PTP model.
Not that I dislike the PTP model, but thats not making your case very well.
This type of subscription model has been going on for decades. Is it not possible that perhaps today's gamers are just whiny little babies that want everything for free?
Pretty much dead-on normal as I see it.
er, greate, how much were production costs, I don't find that. Just that they sold 3 million and that a profit was made.
So if they covered production costs but only had a profit of 10 million profit then that's not necessarily great. Not trying to be a hater but I am interested in specifics as it pertains to this discussion.
I mean, it would be very telling if GW2 was making significant money. But as I said , One can make a profit and still be in trouble.
So they made 180 million. Not sure how much of that they actually get to keep.
But for argument's sake, if the game cost 100 million to make then that's pretty good. If the game cost 170 million to make then that's not that great.
if it costs 60 million then obviously that's pretty amazing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I feel the complete opposite. Prefer games with Sub Models. The only thing I wish they would do is make it the same as a Netflix subscription to allow people with less money than me to not feel the burden of the bill each month.
There Is Always Hope!
On the whole idea of 60$ is to much for a sub mmo is ridiculous to me. Im happy if I spend 60$ on a game and get ATLEAST 15-20 hours out of it. MMos generally offer much more content than other games so I should be fine.
The sub model is IMO the most fair model out there. You buy the game and pay so much a month for it and you get FULL access to everything. Thats if they dont add a fluff filled cash shop. Which if they do im out. Looks like they wont though.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
I don't think the sub model is the issue, I think the issue is at face value it appears they are charging a monthly fee for a game very much like other games on the market using similar mechanics and doing it for free. Unless this game is insanely better than GW2 I don't see how you take players from GW2 who are playing it for free or get new players to choose between the two when they are so similar.
Really all people have so far is interviews and Beta footage like the Skill system video they just showed on this site, which looks a lot like GW2 to me. It is hard to trust the opinions of people in beta since most of them were looking for a DAOC ish RVR game going in and care little about how alike or different it is from other games. At least with GW2 you could just buy digital copy and if you didnt like ti get a refund, in this case the box comes with a 15 a month fee.
They probably could have, but they wanted to try a different approach this time. With GW1 they depended on box sales of successive campaigns to keep them funded. The reason they gave for that was because it was too exhaustive to do, which I wouldn't call out as a lie.
I'm not sure what you're smokin if you think the skill system in GW2 comes even close to ESO. One of the biggest knocks against GW2 is the lack of that feeling of skill progression throughout the entire leveling process, not just early on. Also, the personal story was some of the weakest crap I've seen in an MMO. They should have removed that altogether. The only thing I see as similar PVE wise with both games is the desire to keep the UI simple.
There Is Always Hope!
yes becouse you played ESO and know how the skill system is in game
its just an illusion of choice you have in ESO in the end there will be only 2 viable builds
To be honest for me 60 $ is quite a lot if this is last price then they will lose some some people. I can manage to pay a monthly sub with 10$ 15 $ but 60 $ for box I can't considering also the fact that next year a lot of game will be released
If there is a pack for poor people 30 $ box and one month in it I will buy this pack . Plus I'm wow fan so I'm used to this price
30 $ expansion 15$ month.
And yeah I'm poor and I don't have a full time job and I can't ask parents to give me money for a game.....
This might sound harsh, but if you can't spend $60 on a video game you plan to play for several months you should consider what you're doing with your free time.
This!