That's hopeful news for SWTOR , maybe even a SWTOR 2. I liked reading that they don't want to make actual movie tie ins too. The best bit was this though and I don't know how true it is , isn't everything true on the internet ? Was this quote from the replies in that thread.
"(REDDIT figures, feel free to completely ignore but just for sh*ts and giggles)
Total sales of all Star Wars titles across handheld, TV'd boxes and PC for the last 15 years - ~$2,000,000,000
Total spent by SW:TOR players (1,000,000 active) Average $28.50 per month for the last 12 months(mostly from microtrans but includes subs and the sales of first expansion, does not include first year of sales or subs for some reason) - $342,000,000. Roughly 1/6 that of every Star Wars game added together this generation.
SW:TOR is the most successful Star Wars title of all time, and will only become more so for as long as it runs." quote from distanlurker.
Will this news shut up the SWG people from asking for a SWG2 ? No , obviously.
and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago
Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug
This crap is getting old.
Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.
Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.
Look at it like this - TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.
and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago
Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug
This crap is getting old.
Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.
Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.
Look at it like this - TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.
Hey could you give some specific examples instead of using some cell phone analogy? And I dont agree with it's ok to have bugs because it was released 5 years ago that argument really doesn't make sense.
Originally posted by Frostvein Originally posted by JeroKane Originally posted by DocBrody
and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago
Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug
This crap is getting old.
Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.
Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.
Look at it like this - TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.
Hey could you give some specific examples instead of using some cell phone analogy? And I dont agree with it's ok to have bugs because it was released 5 years ago that argument really doesn't make sense.
No kidding. I'd rather have less features and a workable game than more features that don't work and ruins the gaming experience.
and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago
Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug
This crap is getting old.
Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.
Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.
Look at it like this - TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.
Hey could you give some specific examples instead of using some cell phone analogy? And I dont agree with it's ok to have bugs because it was released 5 years ago that argument really doesn't make sense.
Sure. My point about the bugs is that its ridiculous to call out a game for having bugs when your game is also really buggy. Pot calling kettle black, etc.
At launch, no Day/Night Cycle, guild banks, cross server, chairs, chat bubbles, macros, combat logging, server transfers, UI customization, etc.
Some of this stuff still isn't in (day/night cycle), some of this stuff is (guild banks, combat logging, UI customization) and some of it never will be (chat bubbles, macros)
There is/are some more things but nothing on that list is exactly new to the MMO scene - most of that stuff has been around since the birth of the genre.
Hey im not gonna go on record to say SWTOR is a bad game.. Ill say it like this instead:
I played SWG for 4 years, grinding between 7-12 hours per day, having multiple accounts and millions of credits and rare materials.
I played SWTOR for two months made it to lv 47 with one character no alts, then I quit.
Wait I know I can make a whole list of mmo's and /played that way I have no say in if I liked the game or not just let the gametime speak for itself.
Ultima Online = played 4 years, quit because of trammel.
SWG = played 4 Years, quit because of the NGE.
Wow = played 4 years, quit because they slowely killed world pvp.
DaoC = played about 12 months, quit to start playing swg.
TSW = played about 12 months so far (still playing)
Swtor = played two months, made it to lv47, then i just stopped, even though I love Star Wars and MMOs, the game felt like a very grindy singelplayer game with pretty bad story.. even though story, remains their selling point.
and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago
Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug
This crap is getting old.
Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.
Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.
Look at it like this - TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.
Bioware focused on the Storyline With full voice overs. That's where all the Money went. Was never a Secret!
They also have always been completely honest and perfectly Clear that SW:TOR will not and never will be SWG 2.0!
And I rather have less features in a game at launch and a more polished game!
SOE went overboard With SWG and their codebase was a Complete mess! Hence, why they had such an enormous trouble at the time to fix bugs and issues! A lot they were never able to fix!
Anyone that was there when the JTL expansion hit the live servers, can tell you what happend and the Complete mess it was.
Took them months to fix most of the Critical issues! They lost a ton of players at that time, who were angry and ragequited!
My large guild took a straight nosedive into the ground and so were many other Guilds. Most of the player cities and guild cities had turned into ghost towns. :-/
I enjoyed SWG for what it was at the time. It was a Star Wars game, it had a great community and a player driven economy! It had basically no competition when it launched, as the market wasn't completely saturated yet as it is now.
But I also still perfectly remember the darkside of the game and the aftermath of the JTL expansion, the later CU update and the final nail in the coffin called the NGE.
At least I am honest With myself, enjoyed SWG for what it was at the time and moved on after the NGE.
At least I don't Waste my entire life being upset over a game long gone and spend a decade full of hate and anger bashing SOE, troll every single game forum, like this one. And now spending two years trolling and venting anger against SW:TOR, because it didn't turn out the game you wanted it to be ( SWG 2.0 ).
and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago
Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug
This crap is getting old.
Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.
Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.
Look at it like this - TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.
Bioware focused on the Storyline With full voice overs. That's where all the Money went. Was never a Secret!
They also have always been completely honest and perfectly Clear that SW:TOR will not and never will be SWG 2.0!
And I rather have less features in a game at launch and a more polished game!
SOE went overboard With SWG and their codebase was a Complete mess! Hence, why they had such an enormous trouble at the time to fix bugs and issues! A lot they were never able to fix!
Anyone that was there when the JTL expansion hit the live servers, can tell you what happend and the Complete mess it was.
Took them months to fix most of the Critical issues! They lost a ton of players at that time, who were angry and ragequited!
My large guild took a straight nosedive into the ground and so were many other Guilds. Most of the player cities and guild cities had turned into ghost towns. :-/
I enjoyed SWG for what it was at the time. It was a Star Wars game, it had a great community and a player driven economy! It had basically no competition when it launched, as the market wasn't completely saturated yet as it is now.
But I also still perfectly remember the darkside of the game and the aftermath of the JTL expansion, the later CU update and the final nail in the coffin called the NGE.
At least I am honest With myself, enjoyed SWG for what it was at the time and moved on after the NGE.
At least I don't Waste my entire life being upset over a game long gone and spend a decade full of hate and anger bashing SOE, troll every single game forum, like this one. And now spending two years trolling and venting anger against SW:TOR, because it didn't turn out the game you wanted it to be ( SWG 2.0 ).
/shrug
I never played SWG, I think you (maybe not you, but people in general) need to understand that its possible to not like this game based on its merits alone.
We caught up with game director James Ohlen just before TOR launched and asked him how Bioware made the ambitious decision to create a fully voiced MMO. "That was really exciting," he said. "I remember showing a demo to Ray and Greg to budget, and actually calculated out "here's how much extra money we're going to spend if we're going to do player voice." I did the demo to them and they were like "we have to go this way." {C}{C} That was before Ohlen revealed to them the full cost involved, but they still took the plunge. "Ray and Greg are very much about quality so they wanted to. They signed off on an amount. That was a big one I think just because we were gonna be pretty much spent out of time, but we did."
Ohlen didn't give an idea of the amount involved. With over 200 voice actors and 200,000 lines of dialogue, it must have been a pretty huge number.
Come back to me when you've read that and tell me that Voice overs didn't eat a HUGE chunk of their Development Budget.
Come back to me when you've read that and tell me that Voice overs didn't eat a HUGE chunk of their Development Budget.
For sure it was a massive cost. 200 voice actors and 200.000 lines? Yeah if they even used half decent actors, which from the sound of it they did, that would cost tens of millions. And I read somewhere else that it took 12 full time writers over two years to write all those lines. Think about that and how much that costs.
And when you look at the rest of the game. Relatively small ThemePark worlds and licensed Hero Engine, where else was the huge production time and money spent?
For sure it was a massive cost. 200 voice actors and 200.000 lines? Yeah if they even used half decent actors, which from the sound of it they did, that would cost tens of millions. And I read somewhere else that it took 12 full time writers over two years to write all those lines. Think about that and how much that costs.
And when you look at the rest of the game. Relatively small ThemePark worlds and licensed Hero Engine, where else was the huge production time and money spent?
Of course it cost a lot, I never said it was cheap. Just that, compared to the rest of their budget, voice overs weren't a large unknown quantity that went over budget. Take your estimate of "tens of millions" for example. Lets say voice overs ended up costing them 30 million, against a rough budget of 300 million (industry estimates seem to peg it at around 250 + roaylties and marketing). That's only 10% of the cost to develop the game, even though 30 million sounds like a really high number.
As for where the money was spent, they've stated many times that most went to QA and building the Hero Engine. Keep in mind that they basically licensed a very early version of the Hero Engine, and had to do quite a bit work to make it usable for themselves. It's not like they just got a license and went to work building the worlds.
You know your hatred for a video game is sad and pathetic by itself. But to hope people get fired just prove what type of sad pathetic human being some people can be. Just for the record every mmo lays off people after launch go cry on their sites and a little more tidbit they are now hiring. Get a life dude Swtor is not going anywhere.
Meh, the pathetic haters can go doing what they want.
SWTOR is growing every day and with more people comes more revenue which results in more content which causes the cycle to repeat. They have been doing an excellent 4-6 week content release cycle and i hope they continue like this.
And seriously, just to screw these pathetic whiners, i hope SWG's sequel or any game like that is never released again, ever.
If it's growing by the day, then why feel the need to defend it with name-calling?
I'm sure just as many people coming, are leaving too. Glad they are adding content, but it's not enough for some.
These people are insulting the works of some people as well as the people themself and want to see them fired over a damned game. Worst part is that the game isn't bad but they are just bitter because it's not what they want and are entitled as fuck (it's not like they can't ignore it and move on). Do they not realise that these guys have a family as well?
AFAIK, most people have families, so that doesnt give any special percs
if you go on stage, and play the fiddle, expect the audience to judge your performance
if youre good, they will throw flowers at you
if your bad, they will throw rotten tomatoes
swtors performance speaks for itself, if you care to listen
If TOR wouldn't be
a) Star Wars
b) Bioware
any other developer could have earned some more positive feedback,it's not a total desaster after all
people expected some overwhelming experience and they own hyped it up with ridiculously good CGI trailers no where near the actual gameplay
and they wonder they still get bashed?
and don't forget SWG had tons of more features 5 years ago
true, the quality is there , but not enough
if the game had been as good, as the trailers, they would most definately be nr. 1 now
wows trailers also look better, than the game, but they have an epic game, to match those trailers
without the SW/BW names on the box, they would have sold a lot lesser games..prolly 2/3 less
For sure it was a massive cost. 200 voice actors and 200.000 lines? Yeah if they even used half decent actors, which from the sound of it they did, that would cost tens of millions. And I read somewhere else that it took 12 full time writers over two years to write all those lines. Think about that and how much that costs.
And when you look at the rest of the game. Relatively small ThemePark worlds and licensed Hero Engine, where else was the huge production time and money spent?
Of course it cost a lot, I never said it was cheap. Just that, compared to the rest of their budget, voice overs weren't a large unknown quantity that went over budget. Take your estimate of "tens of millions" for example. Lets say voice overs ended up costing them 30 million, against a rough budget of 300 million (industry estimates seem to peg it at around 250 + roaylties and marketing). That's only 10% of the cost to develop the game, even though 30 million sounds like a really high number.
As for where the money was spent, they've stated many times that most went to QA and building the Hero Engine. Keep in mind that they basically licensed a very early version of the Hero Engine, and had to do quite a bit work to make it usable for themselves. It's not like they just got a license and went to work building the worlds.
lol SWTOR 2 will never happen, most of Bioware disolved anyways. There will be other SW based games, Battlefront will be one of them, but I have no faith in EA, they continue to go in a bad direction no matter what. I'm disappointed in this because I'm a long time SW fan and EA is one of the worst gaming companies so this paints a sour image for the future of Star Wars.
Now I only hope JJ Abrams does a good job with the next Star Wars movie, that's all that matters to me, screw SW based games.
That's hopeful news for SWTOR , maybe even a SWTOR 2. I liked reading that they don't want to make actual movie tie ins too. The best bit was this though and I don't know how true it is , isn't everything true on the internet ? Was this quote from the replies in that thread.
"(REDDIT figures, feel free to completely ignore but just for sh*ts and giggles)
Total sales of all Star Wars titles across handheld, TV'd boxes and PC for the last 15 years - ~$2,000,000,000
Total spent by SW:TOR players (1,000,000 active) Average $28.50 per month for the last 12 months(mostly from microtrans but includes subs and the sales of first expansion, does not include first year of sales or subs for some reason) - $342,000,000. Roughly 1/6 that of every Star Wars game added together this generation.
SW:TOR is the most successful Star Wars title of all time, and will only become more so for as long as it runs." quote from distanlurker.
Will this news shut up the SWG people from asking for a SWG2 ? No , obviously.
defender detected, i've seen you on official forums too defending as always.
you seem desperate, as if you're in denial that SWTOR was a huge flop and wasted potential, and so you throw about "facts" just to convince yourself that you haven't wasted your time playing it.
If you can give a source that there have been 1 million active players for the last 12 months, that would be great, because it's just typical of you defenders to claim things which you haven't given evidence for
and swtor is only the most successful star wars title of all time because it's the most recent and the only star wars theme park mmo out there today, pretty much a wow clone.
cheers.
It's also very typical for haters as well to not offer anything that is even remotely constructive, and finish their rants with a "wow clone" line, which is especially hilarious considering that World of Warcraft didn't really invent the genre itself, they borrowed quite a lot from other games as well, surprise surprise.
That's hopeful news for SWTOR , maybe even a SWTOR 2. I liked reading that they don't want to make actual movie tie ins too. The best bit was this though and I don't know how true it is , isn't everything true on the internet ? Was this quote from the replies in that thread.
"(REDDIT figures, feel free to completely ignore but just for sh*ts and giggles)
Total sales of all Star Wars titles across handheld, TV'd boxes and PC for the last 15 years - ~$2,000,000,000
Total spent by SW:TOR players (1,000,000 active) Average $28.50 per month for the last 12 months(mostly from microtrans but includes subs and the sales of first expansion, does not include first year of sales or subs for some reason) - $342,000,000. Roughly 1/6 that of every Star Wars game added together this generation.
SW:TOR is the most successful Star Wars title of all time, and will only become more so for as long as it runs." quote from distanlurker.
Will this news shut up the SWG people from asking for a SWG2 ? No , obviously.
defender detected, i've seen you on official forums too defending as always.
you seem desperate, as if you're in denial that SWTOR was a huge flop and wasted potential, and so you throw about "facts" just to convince yourself that you haven't wasted your time playing it.
If you can give a source that there have been 1 million active players for the last 12 months, that would be great, because it's just typical of you defenders to claim things which you haven't given evidence for
and swtor is only the most successful star wars title of all time because it's the most recent and the only star wars theme park mmo out there today, pretty much a wow clone.
cheers.
Very funny accusing me of being a defender ha ha . So you are new here I will be a little lenient towards you. I have said many times the game is/was too short , but I do believe this to be the case for many themepark MMO's , I'm used to longer MMO's per character. Also the fact I have 16 characters is terrible , it isn't a long game. I have also being accused of propaganda , which I proved wrong and then had a laugh about it , see my sig. I don't think it has been a waste of two years at all. I would also like speech bubbles and more individual class stories.
I have given a source for 10 million accounts and over 1 Million play per month as of around the 14th of November in another thread on here. Try searching for Eric Musco 10 million 1 million cantina. That will get you the source.
Also I even said in this thread maybe EA/BW will make a sandbox SW game for the people who want it.
How can I be defending a game in a thread about 10 years of SW license ? Also I don't defend on the SWTOR forums please show me links to that and on this site that might help us.
I thought I would give you the link , those search words I gave came up with it as the number one hit on Google.
I also think the game was rushed out and that the original final planet Corellia for chapter 3 is still very buggy and unfinished , but I guess Christmas sales and all had to be met at the time.
Very nice try in trying to rile me up , it almost worked
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
You'd think that people would move on after 2 years but nope, SWTOR will continue to be hated by people in this community for not being SWG PRECU / SWG EMU / SWG2 / SWG Electric Boogaloo / SWG In the Mountains.
*shakes head*
/Facepalm
yea,,those 1.5 mio players , who left in the first year? we were all swg players
every..single..one
Let's be fair here. I played SWG and adored the game, but I didn't quite SWTOR because it wasn't SWG.
I quit it because it was WOW'like
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
You'd think that people would move on after 2 years but nope, SWTOR will continue to be hated by people in this community for not being SWG PRECU / SWG EMU / SWG2 / SWG Electric Boogaloo / SWG In the Mountains.
*shakes head*
/Facepalm
yea,,those 1.5 mio players , who left in the first year? we were all swg players
every..single..one
Let's be fair here. I played SWG and adored the game, but I didn't quite SWTOR because it wasn't SWG.
I quit it because it was WOW'like
I agree, it definitely started out like wow and now they are slowly trying to break away from that image ( I am telling you all Disney and BW are putting the screws to EA) but now I for see them really going in a new direction, if they make sand box MMO RPG SW what would that mean for SWOTOR? My guess is it die off or do what EQN is doing (there can only be two, no more no less). A lot of unknowns but something tells me they learned a lot from spending a 100 million in a game just to clone it to WoW with no real ROI in for seen future.
Hey im not gonna go on record to say SWTOR is a bad game.. Ill say it like this instead:
I played SWG for 4 years, grinding between 7-12 hours per day, having multiple accounts and millions of credits and rare materials.
I played SWTOR for two months made it to lv 47 with one character no alts, then I quit.
Wait I know I can make a whole list of mmo's and /played that way I have no say in if I liked the game or not just let the gametime speak for itself.
Ultima Online = played 4 years, quit because of trammel.
SWG = played 4 Years, quit because of the NGE.
Wow = played 4 years, quit because they slowely killed world pvp.
DaoC = played about 12 months, quit to start playing swg.
TSW = played about 12 months so far (still playing)
Swtor = played two months, made it to lv47, then i just stopped, even though I love Star Wars and MMOs, the game felt like a very grindy singelplayer game with pretty bad story.. even though story, remains their selling point.
HOLD UP!
Okay, I started playing SWTOR again... and lo and behold, now I can look past all the hype i used to have, its still a pretty bad well at times awful game, BUT there is a big but here.. im having fun now, its like a lobby minigame compilation into a star wars package guised as a mmo.. still the fun can be had in there, if you forget that what its supposed to be and enjoy it for what it is.
So, i only played for a week now but I have a feeling this time I'll probably stick around and pokemon play this little game like a sidenote in my mmo chronicles.
There is no obsession, EA/Bioware have said they had content already written at launch to last 2 years, and at the time that was assuming the game was going to succeed, now it has not it may spread out longer. Unless anyone can link to a recent article by EA/Bioware clearly stating they have been working on these fresh new content during 2012 (mainly after Aug) or 2013 then I will just go by what EA / Bioware have already stated.
What I say is not an opinion, it is from information as commented by EA/Bioware, and if true, then I do not see any major new updates like Makeb or SSSP coming ever again. They were quite vocal and explicit with their info with SWTOR from launch to the announcement of F2P, but since then they have been extremely quiet about it all.
Written is not the same as developed. It isn't the writing part that requires substantial time and money, it's the implementation of the content into the game. Unless they have had more layoffs we haven't heard about, all the people who were working on content like Makeb, Oricon, and GS must be working on something.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Comments
dont hate on SWG, it was good and so is this game. SWTOR is just not enough of anything, starfighters now are a blast and did really good.
Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.
Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.
Look at it like this - TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.
Ajax
Hey could you give some specific examples instead of using some cell phone analogy? And I dont agree with it's ok to have bugs because it was released 5 years ago that argument really doesn't make sense.Which were mostly all bugged to hell and never fixed at the time. /shrug
This crap is getting old.
Other games outside of SWG were released 5-10 years ago and had more features, at launch, then Biowares did (and in some cases still does) Its not really fair to belittle a game that came out nearly a decade before for having bugs in features when the game you release didn't even have those features to begin with, AND was buggy to boot.
Ignoring the gameplay for a second, Bioware spent a ton of money on an MMO that didn't have features that older games had standard and/or had at the time of TORs launch.
Look at it like this - TOR released a cell phone in 2012 without a touch screen, internet access, GPS, wifi, voice commands and a ton of additional features and wondered why it bombed. They recovered nicely, but still the initial damage was done.
Hey could you give some specific examples instead of using some cell phone analogy? And I dont agree with it's ok to have bugs because it was released 5 years ago that argument really doesn't make sense.
No kidding. I'd rather have less features and a workable game than more features that don't work and ruins the gaming experience.Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Sure. My point about the bugs is that its ridiculous to call out a game for having bugs when your game is also really buggy. Pot calling kettle black, etc.
At launch, no Day/Night Cycle, guild banks, cross server, chairs, chat bubbles, macros, combat logging, server transfers, UI customization, etc.
Some of this stuff still isn't in (day/night cycle), some of this stuff is (guild banks, combat logging, UI customization) and some of it never will be (chat bubbles, macros)
There is/are some more things but nothing on that list is exactly new to the MMO scene - most of that stuff has been around since the birth of the genre.
Hey im not gonna go on record to say SWTOR is a bad game.. Ill say it like this instead:
I played SWG for 4 years, grinding between 7-12 hours per day, having multiple accounts and millions of credits and rare materials.
I played SWTOR for two months made it to lv 47 with one character no alts, then I quit.
Wait I know I can make a whole list of mmo's and /played that way I have no say in if I liked the game or not just let the gametime speak for itself.
Ultima Online = played 4 years, quit because of trammel.
SWG = played 4 Years, quit because of the NGE.
Wow = played 4 years, quit because they slowely killed world pvp.
DaoC = played about 12 months, quit to start playing swg.
TSW = played about 12 months so far (still playing)
Swtor = played two months, made it to lv47, then i just stopped, even though I love Star Wars and MMOs, the game felt like a very grindy singelplayer game with pretty bad story.. even though story, remains their selling point.
Herald of innovation, Vanquisher of the old! - Awake a few hours almost everyday!
Bioware focused on the Storyline With full voice overs. That's where all the Money went. Was never a Secret!
They also have always been completely honest and perfectly Clear that SW:TOR will not and never will be SWG 2.0!
And I rather have less features in a game at launch and a more polished game!
SOE went overboard With SWG and their codebase was a Complete mess! Hence, why they had such an enormous trouble at the time to fix bugs and issues! A lot they were never able to fix!
Anyone that was there when the JTL expansion hit the live servers, can tell you what happend and the Complete mess it was.
Took them months to fix most of the Critical issues! They lost a ton of players at that time, who were angry and ragequited!
My large guild took a straight nosedive into the ground and so were many other Guilds. Most of the player cities and guild cities had turned into ghost towns. :-/
I enjoyed SWG for what it was at the time. It was a Star Wars game, it had a great community and a player driven economy! It had basically no competition when it launched, as the market wasn't completely saturated yet as it is now.
But I also still perfectly remember the darkside of the game and the aftermath of the JTL expansion, the later CU update and the final nail in the coffin called the NGE.
At least I am honest With myself, enjoyed SWG for what it was at the time and moved on after the NGE.
At least I don't Waste my entire life being upset over a game long gone and spend a decade full of hate and anger bashing SOE, troll every single game forum, like this one. And now spending two years trolling and venting anger against SW:TOR, because it didn't turn out the game you wanted it to be ( SWG 2.0 ).
/shrug
That is not true. James Ohlen stated the following earlier this year:
"[Voice acting] was a known entity, and cost was quite low in comparison to the cost of the rest of the project."
Source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/29/gdc-2013-james-ohlen-on-how-f2p-saved-swtor/
You make me like charity
I never played SWG, I think you (maybe not you, but people in general) need to understand that its possible to not like this game based on its merits alone.
James Ohlen is the Pinocchio of Bioware. Come on now.
If you read his entire quote, you can perfectly read that he is contradicting himself!
He is just trying to put out the flames, because the game was being bashed on that and nothing else.
It's the primary reason why they will do general planetary storylines only from now on and discontinue the personal class storylines.
Simply because it's too expensive. They don't get the funds for it anymore.
Here have a look at this: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/01/06/star-wars-the-old-republic-scoops-guinness-world-record-for-voice-acting/
We caught up with game director James Ohlen just before TOR launched and asked him how Bioware made the ambitious decision to create a fully voiced MMO. "That was really exciting," he said. "I remember showing a demo to Ray and Greg to budget, and actually calculated out "here's how much extra money we're going to spend if we're going to do player voice." I did the demo to them and they were like "we have to go this way."
{C}{C}
That was before Ohlen revealed to them the full cost involved, but they still took the plunge. "Ray and Greg are very much about quality so they wanted to. They signed off on an amount. That was a big one I think just because we were gonna be pretty much spent out of time, but we did."
Ohlen didn't give an idea of the amount involved. With over 200 voice actors and 200,000 lines of dialogue, it must have been a pretty huge number.
Come back to me when you've read that and tell me that Voice overs didn't eat a HUGE chunk of their Development Budget.
For sure it was a massive cost. 200 voice actors and 200.000 lines? Yeah if they even used half decent actors, which from the sound of it they did, that would cost tens of millions. And I read somewhere else that it took 12 full time writers over two years to write all those lines. Think about that and how much that costs.
And when you look at the rest of the game. Relatively small ThemePark worlds and licensed Hero Engine, where else was the huge production time and money spent?
My gaming blog
Of course it cost a lot, I never said it was cheap. Just that, compared to the rest of their budget, voice overs weren't a large unknown quantity that went over budget. Take your estimate of "tens of millions" for example. Lets say voice overs ended up costing them 30 million, against a rough budget of 300 million (industry estimates seem to peg it at around 250 + roaylties and marketing). That's only 10% of the cost to develop the game, even though 30 million sounds like a really high number.
As for where the money was spent, they've stated many times that most went to QA and building the Hero Engine. Keep in mind that they basically licensed a very early version of the Hero Engine, and had to do quite a bit work to make it usable for themselves. It's not like they just got a license and went to work building the worlds.
You make me like charity
true, the quality is there , but not enough
if the game had been as good, as the trailers, they would most definately be nr. 1 now
wows trailers also look better, than the game, but they have an epic game, to match those trailers
without the SW/BW names on the box, they would have sold a lot lesser games..prolly 2/3 less
sorry had a minor meltdown
Average for an MMO compared to what MMO's? Average for an RPG maybe, but an MMO?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
yea..the only other mmo, who is close, is TSW..not that it helped them much
GW2 are trying, with a decent result
STO are trying, with a Little lesser success
the biggest problem with SWTORs story, is that it simply takes too long to produce
6 years production= 6 weeks playtime
how many mios of subs would they have needed, to continue the personal stories?
lol SWTOR 2 will never happen, most of Bioware disolved anyways. There will be other SW based games, Battlefront will be one of them, but I have no faith in EA, they continue to go in a bad direction no matter what. I'm disappointed in this because I'm a long time SW fan and EA is one of the worst gaming companies so this paints a sour image for the future of Star Wars.
Now I only hope JJ Abrams does a good job with the next Star Wars movie, that's all that matters to me, screw SW based games.
It's also very typical for haters as well to not offer anything that is even remotely constructive, and finish their rants with a "wow clone" line, which is especially hilarious considering that World of Warcraft didn't really invent the genre itself, they borrowed quite a lot from other games as well, surprise surprise.
Very funny accusing me of being a defender ha ha . So you are new here I will be a little lenient towards you. I have said many times the game is/was too short , but I do believe this to be the case for many themepark MMO's , I'm used to longer MMO's per character. Also the fact I have 16 characters is terrible , it isn't a long game. I have also being accused of propaganda , which I proved wrong and then had a laugh about it , see my sig. I don't think it has been a waste of two years at all. I would also like speech bubbles and more individual class stories.
I have given a source for 10 million accounts and over 1 Million play per month as of around the 14th of November in another thread on here. Try searching for Eric Musco 10 million 1 million cantina. That will get you the source.
Also I even said in this thread maybe EA/BW will make a sandbox SW game for the people who want it.
How can I be defending a game in a thread about 10 years of SW license ? Also I don't defend on the SWTOR forums please show me links to that and on this site that might help us.
I thought I would give you the link , those search words I gave came up with it as the number one hit on Google.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1396514-SWTOR-has-10million-Casual-Players
I also think the game was rushed out and that the original final planet Corellia for chapter 3 is still very buggy and unfinished , but I guess Christmas sales and all had to be met at the time.
Very nice try in trying to rile me up , it almost worked
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Let's be fair here. I played SWG and adored the game, but I didn't quite SWTOR because it wasn't SWG.
I quit it because it was WOW'like
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I agree, it definitely started out like wow and now they are slowly trying to break away from that image ( I am telling you all Disney and BW are putting the screws to EA) but now I for see them really going in a new direction, if they make sand box MMO RPG SW what would that mean for SWOTOR? My guess is it die off or do what EQN is doing (there can only be two, no more no less). A lot of unknowns but something tells me they learned a lot from spending a 100 million in a game just to clone it to WoW with no real ROI in for seen future.
HOLD UP!
Okay, I started playing SWTOR again... and lo and behold, now I can look past all the hype i used to have, its still a pretty bad well at times awful game, BUT there is a big but here..
im having fun now, its like a lobby minigame compilation into a star wars package guised as a mmo.. still the fun can be had in there, if you forget that what its supposed to be and enjoy it for what it is.
So, i only played for a week now but I have a feeling this time I'll probably stick around and pokemon play this little game like a sidenote in my mmo chronicles.
Herald of innovation, Vanquisher of the old! - Awake a few hours almost everyday!
Written is not the same as developed. It isn't the writing part that requires substantial time and money, it's the implementation of the content into the game. Unless they have had more layoffs we haven't heard about, all the people who were working on content like Makeb, Oricon, and GS must be working on something.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.