Meh. It's clear that you have not experienced FFXIV:ARR very far at all. It's one thing to be ignorant about the endgame but that you are ignorant about the early progression too... what a waste of my time.
Monk(Pugilist) runs out of TP in any non-trash fight once we get past the tutorials. Any good Monk must balance his TP or his DPS goes to crap. DRG has more breathing room but not by all that much.
FFXIV:ARR introduces you to progressively deeper mechanics of each class as you level. 2-3 skills? Yeah, you can get by with 2-3 skills. You'll just be a crappy player though. But that's how it goes in WoW too.
But I'm not here to educate you. I'm just here calling you out on your apparent ignorance. You don't need my help to accomplish that though. Cheers.
I'm sorry you think that way, but I'm glad you vented.
Again, context.
Enjoy FFXIV:ARR
The context is there for everyone to see. You didn't play ARR to endgame. You didn't play ARR past the tutorials. You come here criticizing both the endgame and the game past the tutorials.
If I'm wrong, let us know. Won't excuse the glaring inaccuracies in your argument but it's good to try.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
It's a fool's errand to "prove yourself" in forums, as whatever I say can be dismissed as "google'd".
So whether you think I played past the tutorials and towards the end game is something pointless to try and change.
But coming from someone who said this...
Originally posted by Hyanmen
Lastly, if you have the mindset that only level 50 matters then you will quickly outlevel the gear in question. I feel sorry for you in that case, and ask you to understand that this kind of mindset is a choice at best and that your gear isn't quickly outleveled if you actually care about levels one till fourtynine and don't rush. This is even more true considering you can work on your endgame gear at any level range in this game by making money. I had acquired enough money to finance a full ilvl70 set by the time I hit 35 on my first battle class, just enjoying the game leisurely.
Obviously this is nothing but the WoW mindset leaking into ARR, a game that doesn't work the same way but in the end SE isn't stopping people from missing the point and being miserable so all I can do is offer my condolences to those affected.
...I have to say it's rather awkward.
What I mean is, it seems on one hand you defend the game isn't all about end-game (and I completely agree), but then you turn around and say I don't know what I'm talking about because I didn't play through to the end game.
The irony is that my opinion of the game's depth didn't improve at all as I progressed through the game.
Let me put it this way: "Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch" sequence counts as one skill to me.
If I'm pressing 1-2-3, 1-2-3, in my view I'm spamming the same skill. There's no thought or consequence to it.
Eventually you get Twin Snakes (buff) to alternate with True Strike, Rock Breaker (AoE) and Demolish (DoT) to alternate with Snap Punch, as well as Arm of the Destroyer (AoE & silence), One Ilm Punch (dispel) and Dragon Kick (debuff) to alternate with Bootshine.
But all of that doesn't add Depth - regardless of the ratio at which you alternate them (Twin Snakes can alternate with True Strike in a 1:1 or 1:2 ratio depending on your Skill Speed), it's still a pre-determined rotation - and I'm talking about the arguably most complex class in FFXIV:ARR.
Furthermore, the fact you have no cooldown on any of those Skills doesn't add anything to the game - it's still all about static, gear/encounter-dependant rotation(s).
Theorycrafting defines your rotation(s), according to your gear, stats and skills - WoW is no diferent here.
Some encounter mechanics cause you to swap skills here and there - WoW is no different here.
But once you have your rotation defined, and the encounter strategy set, it's static - this is greatly inferior to WoW.
Giving a simple example from WoW:
At some point (may have changed since then), Combat Rogue's Sinister Strike had a 40% chance to grant you 2 combo points instead of 1 (the default amount), and the max combo points was 5.
Finishers (like Eviscerate, Slice and Dice or Rupture) would use up all combo points, and would have a stronger effect the more combo points you use them with.
In the most basic of scenarios, you'd use 5 Sinister Strikes then Finisher.
But there was the potential to get 2 combo points per Sinister Strike, so if you pay attention, you might notice after only 2 or 3 Sinister Strikes, you already got 4 Combo Points, and it may allow you to fit more skills into your rotation while still using the Finisher with 5 Combo Points, because you now have more Energy and time than you would if you used 5 Sinister Strikes to get 5 Combo Points.
Same for Assassination Rogue's Mutilate (2 combo points by default) granting an additional combo point if it Crits.
This means you would be able to use 2 or 3 mutilates to have 5 combo points.
Although none of the above is amazing, it's nonetheless a big step up from FFXIV:ARR - or rather, FFXIV:ARR is a big step down from WoW.
A proper example of what could have easily given Pugilist/Monk some Depth, would be for example:
One or more Skills that consume Greased Lightning stacks (thus losing some sustained DPS) in order to produce extra effects/damage based on how many stacks you had.
A trait causing certain events to allow the use of Haymaker without dodging first.
---
So when the class mechanics are incredibly basic when compared to most MMOs - even FFXI - and most of the game is dull and trivial, it doesn't matter whether the end game boss mechanics are made super complex and exciting.
The backtracking is great to observe, honestly. It is entertaining.
"Skill" is something that nobody on any forum would associate with anything more than a single skill you can press on your hotbar that has an effect on an NPC or PC. Not to mean as "three actions in a row" or "skill combinations without any thought in using them".
Suddenly we have Nurvus with his own unique association with the MMO term "skill" which he doesn't bother to explain to anyone until someone calls him out on it, but uses it anyway and expects people to agree. Who knows what other terms like "resource management" are supposed to mean. No, Nurvus, I don't care at this point either.
You are right about the context, Nurvus. You are right in everything you say because you have your own unique definitions for everything, definitions that don't quite match with everyone else's reality but your own. In this reality everything is as you say it is.
Yes, Nurvus. FFXIV:ARR in your reality is incredibly basic, dull and trivial (whatever these adjectives are supposed to represent in your neverland). Nobody can take this away from you. Fight the power.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The backtracking is great to observe, honestly. It is entertaining.
"Skill" is something that nobody on any forum would associate with anything more than a single skill you can press on your hotbar that has an effect on an NPC or PC. Not to mean as "three actions in a row" or "skill combinations without any thought in using them".
Suddenly we have Nurvus with his own unique association with the MMO term "skill" which he doesn't bother to explain to anyone until someone calls him out on it, but uses it anyway and expects people to agree.
You are right about the context, Nurvus. You are right in everything you say because you have your own unique definitions for everything, definitions that don't quite match with everyone else's reality but your own.
Yes, Nurvus. FFXIV:ARR in your reality is incredibly basic, dull and trivial (whatever these adjectives are supposed to represent in your neverland). Nobody can take this away from you. Fight the power.
I apologize if I don't explain myself perfectly on the first try, or if I backtrack.
But when I say spamming 2-3 skills all the time, and you call me out on it, you're nitpicking on numbers, rather than grasping the concept I'm sharing in my imperfect message.
Sure you can use 10-15-20 skills as Pugilist. The same 10-15-20 skills, in the same optimal order, on every single enemy you face.
Does it make the message behind my "spamming 2-3 skills all the time" statement false?
Look, I'm not trying to win the discussion, or get anyone to agree with me, much less presume to tell anyone what they should like in an MMO.
I'm merely trying to clarify that although FFXIV:ARR has its own qualities, there is nothing in its combat system (as a combat system, not as a FF game, and not aesthetically) that exceeds an old game like WoW;
that action is not synonym of twitch/reflex, nor the opposite of strategy;
that builds, gear, pre-combat encounter strategy are all eaisly duplicated and do not represent player skill, while in-combat decision-making and dynamic opportunities - class mechanics in particular - help distinguish great players.
And all of that is specially important, because Yoshida stated SE investigated other popular MMOs when designing FFXIV:ARR.
It makes me wonder if they did investigate at all.
Comments
The context is there for everyone to see. You didn't play ARR to endgame. You didn't play ARR past the tutorials. You come here criticizing both the endgame and the game past the tutorials.
If I'm wrong, let us know. Won't excuse the glaring inaccuracies in your argument but it's good to try.
It's a fool's errand to "prove yourself" in forums, as whatever I say can be dismissed as "google'd".
So whether you think I played past the tutorials and towards the end game is something pointless to try and change.
But coming from someone who said this...
...I have to say it's rather awkward.
What I mean is, it seems on one hand you defend the game isn't all about end-game (and I completely agree), but then you turn around and say I don't know what I'm talking about because I didn't play through to the end game.
The irony is that my opinion of the game's depth didn't improve at all as I progressed through the game.
Let me put it this way: "Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch" sequence counts as one skill to me.
If I'm pressing 1-2-3, 1-2-3, in my view I'm spamming the same skill. There's no thought or consequence to it.
Eventually you get Twin Snakes (buff) to alternate with True Strike, Rock Breaker (AoE) and Demolish (DoT) to alternate with Snap Punch, as well as Arm of the Destroyer (AoE & silence), One Ilm Punch (dispel) and Dragon Kick (debuff) to alternate with Bootshine.
But all of that doesn't add Depth - regardless of the ratio at which you alternate them (Twin Snakes can alternate with True Strike in a 1:1 or 1:2 ratio depending on your Skill Speed), it's still a pre-determined rotation - and I'm talking about the arguably most complex class in FFXIV:ARR.
Furthermore, the fact you have no cooldown on any of those Skills doesn't add anything to the game - it's still all about static, gear/encounter-dependant rotation(s).
Theorycrafting defines your rotation(s), according to your gear, stats and skills - WoW is no diferent here.
Some encounter mechanics cause you to swap skills here and there - WoW is no different here.
But once you have your rotation defined, and the encounter strategy set, it's static - this is greatly inferior to WoW.
Giving a simple example from WoW:
At some point (may have changed since then), Combat Rogue's Sinister Strike had a 40% chance to grant you 2 combo points instead of 1 (the default amount), and the max combo points was 5.
Finishers (like Eviscerate, Slice and Dice or Rupture) would use up all combo points, and would have a stronger effect the more combo points you use them with.
In the most basic of scenarios, you'd use 5 Sinister Strikes then Finisher.
But there was the potential to get 2 combo points per Sinister Strike, so if you pay attention, you might notice after only 2 or 3 Sinister Strikes, you already got 4 Combo Points, and it may allow you to fit more skills into your rotation while still using the Finisher with 5 Combo Points, because you now have more Energy and time than you would if you used 5 Sinister Strikes to get 5 Combo Points.
Same for Assassination Rogue's Mutilate (2 combo points by default) granting an additional combo point if it Crits.
This means you would be able to use 2 or 3 mutilates to have 5 combo points.
Although none of the above is amazing, it's nonetheless a big step up from FFXIV:ARR - or rather, FFXIV:ARR is a big step down from WoW.
A proper example of what could have easily given Pugilist/Monk some Depth, would be for example:
---
So when the class mechanics are incredibly basic when compared to most MMOs - even FFXI - and most of the game is dull and trivial, it doesn't matter whether the end game boss mechanics are made super complex and exciting.
The backtracking is great to observe, honestly. It is entertaining.
"Skill" is something that nobody on any forum would associate with anything more than a single skill you can press on your hotbar that has an effect on an NPC or PC. Not to mean as "three actions in a row" or "skill combinations without any thought in using them".
Suddenly we have Nurvus with his own unique association with the MMO term "skill" which he doesn't bother to explain to anyone until someone calls him out on it, but uses it anyway and expects people to agree. Who knows what other terms like "resource management" are supposed to mean. No, Nurvus, I don't care at this point either.
You are right about the context, Nurvus. You are right in everything you say because you have your own unique definitions for everything, definitions that don't quite match with everyone else's reality but your own. In this reality everything is as you say it is.
Yes, Nurvus. FFXIV:ARR in your reality is incredibly basic, dull and trivial (whatever these adjectives are supposed to represent in your neverland). Nobody can take this away from you. Fight the power.
I apologize if I don't explain myself perfectly on the first try, or if I backtrack.
But when I say spamming 2-3 skills all the time, and you call me out on it, you're nitpicking on numbers, rather than grasping the concept I'm sharing in my imperfect message.
Sure you can use 10-15-20 skills as Pugilist. The same 10-15-20 skills, in the same optimal order, on every single enemy you face.
Does it make the message behind my "spamming 2-3 skills all the time" statement false?
Look, I'm not trying to win the discussion, or get anyone to agree with me, much less presume to tell anyone what they should like in an MMO.
I'm merely trying to clarify that although FFXIV:ARR has its own qualities, there is nothing in its combat system (as a combat system, not as a FF game, and not aesthetically) that exceeds an old game like WoW;
that action is not synonym of twitch/reflex, nor the opposite of strategy;
that builds, gear, pre-combat encounter strategy are all eaisly duplicated and do not represent player skill, while in-combat decision-making and dynamic opportunities - class mechanics in particular - help distinguish great players.
And all of that is specially important, because Yoshida stated SE investigated other popular MMOs when designing FFXIV:ARR.
It makes me wonder if they did investigate at all.