It does have an array of emotes, but most of them cost money to buy. Even if subscribed.
Point lost.
Your reading comprehension is a bit off, isn't it? Nobody said TOR has a toolset. Someone responded to my post about "making your own story" through bad RP in SWG not holding a narrative candle to professionally developed content in TOR with a post about user created content being better than some quests in TOR, and I pointed out that user created content had nothing to do with a discussion of TOR vs. SWG.
Last I checked, RP was accomplished heavily through emotes. They are mostly sold in the Cartel Market, even for subscribers. SWG didn't sell emotes. How is my reading comprehension now?
PS - you brought up (and keep emphasizing) SWG, not me.
Last I checked, RP was accomplished heavily through emotes. They are mostly sold in the Cartel Market, even for subscribers. SWG didn't sell emotes. How is my reading comprehension now?
PS - you brought up SWG, not me.
What's your point? The discussion I was in was about the comparative value of "making your own story" vs. participating in a story written and presented by professionals. What does how people get access to emotes have to do with that? Poorly thought out "personal stories" don't suddenly get a quality upgrade just because somebody has a wider range of emotes to use in them.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Last I checked, RP was accomplished heavily through emotes. They are mostly sold in the Cartel Market, even for subscribers. SWG didn't sell emotes. How is my reading comprehension now?
PS - you brought up SWG, not me.
What's your point? The discussion I was in was about the comparative value of "making your own story" vs. participating in a story written and presented by professionals. What does how people get access to emotes have to do with that? Poorly thought out "personal stories" don't suddenly get a quality upgrade just because somebody has a wider range of emotes to use in them.
You need to understand that people create stories by telling them. It's not a blog that guildies must read. It happens it-game, in real-time.
Emotes assist in personal stories when roleplaying, and they cost real money in SWTOR.
It's not really up to you to judge. Some of the roleplay experiences I've had in SWTOR were better than the scripted game. Depends how imaginative you are and how imaginative others are. If you are in a guild that just stands around and watches others .. don't expect much. They are not there to entertain you, they are a queue for you to jump in. If the plot sucks, then it should fall back to the complainer .... /looks-at-you. [unless of course the complainer never participated, in which case the complainer is a piece of work indeed.]
You need to understand that people create stories by telling them. It's not a blog that guildies must read. It happens it-game, in real-time.
Emotes assist in personal stories when roleplaying, and they cost real money in SWTOR.
It's not really up to you to judge. Some of the roleplay experiences I've had in SWTOR were better than the scripted game. Depends how imaginative you are and how imaginative others are. If you are in a guild that just stands around and watches others .. don't expect much. They are not there to entertain you, they are a queue for you to jump in. If the plot sucks, then it should fall back to the complainer .... /looks-at-you. [unless of course the complainer never participated, in which case the complainer is a piece of work indeed.]
We could argue forever about the relative value of fully implemented scripted content vs unscripted content which is limited to text and emotes, but I doubt either of us would have a change of opinion. My original point which led off onto this tangent was just a response to someone saying SWG created far more immersion than TOR, to which I replied that that depends entirely on what best adds to a given player's immersion, and if what does that for you is professionally written, fully implemented narrative content, then between the two games TOR would be the one that offered better immersion. Let's face it, SWG went through two periods when it came to provided narrative; when there basically wasn't any at all, and when there was one that made WoW look like fine literature.
And regardless of your opinion of the value of RP in online games, the sad reality is that in most games the tools available to the player to make that RP seem like a part of the game world are substantially more limited today than they were in text MUDs twenty years ago. The greater the capability gap in how developers can present a narrative, and how players can do so, the less appealing "player stories" are going to be, even to those who might in theory find them worthwhile.
On the bright side, features like the storybricks system that is going to be included with EverQuest Next show some promise. If MMOs can reach the point where the AI is full featured enough to do a decent job of simulating a dynamic, living world, then it might actually be possible for individuals or groups of players to *truly* build their own stories, ones that actually take place in the game world, and see that world react, rather than constructing limited narratives that exist entirely in the chat window.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
You need to understand that people create stories by telling them. It's not a blog that guildies must read. It happens it-game, in real-time.
Emotes assist in personal stories when roleplaying, and they cost real money in SWTOR.
It's not really up to you to judge. Some of the roleplay experiences I've had in SWTOR were better than the scripted game. Depends how imaginative you are and how imaginative others are. If you are in a guild that just stands around and watches others .. don't expect much. They are not there to entertain you, they are a queue for you to jump in. If the plot sucks, then it should fall back to the complainer .... /looks-at-you. [unless of course the complainer never participated, in which case the complainer is a piece of work indeed.]
We could argue forever about the relative value of fully implemented scripted content vs unscripted content which is limited to text and emotes, but I doubt either of us would have a change of opinion. My original point which led off onto this tangent was just a response to someone saying SWG created far more immersion than TOR, to which I replied that that depends entirely on what best adds to a given player's immersion, and if what does that for you is professionally written, fully implemented narrative content, then between the two games TOR would be the one that offered better immersion. Let's face it, SWG went through two periods when it came to provided narrative; when there basically wasn't any at all, and when there was one that made WoW look like fine literature.
And regardless of your opinion of the value of RP in online games, the sad reality is that in most games the tools available to the player to make that RP seem like a part of the game world are substantially more limited today than they were in text MUDs twenty years ago. The greater the capability gap in how developers can present a narrative, and how players can do so, the less appealing "player stories" are going to be, even to those who might in theory find them worthwhile.
On the bright side, features like the storybricks system that is going to be included with EverQuest Next show some promise. If MMOs can reach the point where the AI is full featured enough to do a decent job of simulating a dynamic, living world, then it might actually be possible for individuals or groups of players to *truly* build their own stories, ones that actually take place in the game world, and see that world react, rather than constructing limited narratives that exist entirely in the chat window.
the special snowflake approach doesnt Work well in big mainstram mmos
if they are to service mios of players, they cant spend too much time on each individual
if i need to plow a field, i get a tractor, i dont rebuild my car to pull the plow
sounds to me, that you want mainstream mmos , to do, what they were never intended to do
the dynamic World is already up and running, its called EVE online...try that
It does have an array of emotes, but most of them cost money to buy. Even if subscribed.
Point lost.
Your reading comprehension is a bit off, isn't it? Nobody said TOR has a toolset. Someone responded to my post about "making your own story" through bad RP in SWG not holding a narrative candle to professionally developed content in TOR with a post about user created content being better than some quests in TOR, and I pointed out that user created content had nothing to do with a discussion of TOR vs. SWG.
Last I checked, RP was accomplished heavily through emotes. They are mostly sold in the Cartel Market, even for subscribers. SWG didn't sell emotes. How is my reading comprehension now?
PS - you brought up (and keep emphasizing) SWG, not me.
Ok your reading comprehension is actually not that good from this post anyways.
You say most are sold through cartel even for subs. Well this is not true subs get most emotes for free. And you say most but the ones they don't have through the cartel market with real money again not true. Most buy from the AH or use their allotted 500/month on items most do not spend real money on emotes.
Second you say most emotes are purchased through the cartel market for real money in general. Again this in not accurate most buy emotes they want through the AH with in game currency not real money.
Anyways just oust wanted to point out a couple facts you were a tad off on.
the special snowflake approach doesnt Work well in big mainstram mmos
if they are to service mios of players, they cant spend too much time on each individual
if i need to plow a field, i get a tractor, i dont rebuild my car to pull the plow
sounds to me, that you want mainstream mmos , to do, what they were never intended to do
the dynamic World is already up and running, its called EVE online...try that
Special snowflake? The "your character is special" approach usually isn't facilitated by a dynamic world, it's facilitated by adding a bunch of static quest content that presents your character (and every other individual PC) as the "one true hero," and then just asks the players to ignore the fact that they are all doing the same quests. And that is just fine. If you are going to go the static, scripted content route, that is the way you have to do it, and at this point in time, that is the only way to get a high quality narrative experience.
And no, EVE does not present a dynamic world, not even close. A dynamic world is one in which the game itself reacts to the collective actions of players, not one in which (outside of the act of gathering resources) players are the content. EverQuest Next, if it lives up to half the promises, will be the closest MMOs have come to a dynamic world. If you kill enough of a type of enemy in a given area, they will realize "hey, this place isn't safe for us, we're going to bug out and go somewhere else." That is the route that, technology allowing, any game attempting to create a "living" world should take, whether online or offline. Give the NPCs actual likes and dislikes, and the ability to make a limited set of binary choices, and then let the players loose to interact with the world, and watch the world react.
The number one flaw of all sandbox games to date isn't the concept, it's the lack of well developed AI, the reliance on players to provide content without either a decent toolset with which to provide it, or the competence to provide it even if they had the toolset. The illusion of meaningful player choice and action in a traditional sandbox is impossible to really achieve, because the world doesn't react to you. You can't RP purging the countryside of a tribe of orcs, because as soon as you stop purging, they respawn, and it's like you were never there. At least in a game like TOR with scripted content, your choices have consequences inside the cutscenes, even if those consequences don't extend into the rest of the game.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
the special snowflake approach doesnt Work well in big mainstram mmos
if they are to service mios of players, they cant spend too much time on each individual
if i need to plow a field, i get a tractor, i dont rebuild my car to pull the plow
sounds to me, that you want mainstream mmos , to do, what they were never intended to do
the dynamic World is already up and running, its called EVE online...try that
Special snowflake? The "your character is special" approach usually isn't facilitated by a dynamic world, it's facilitated by adding a bunch of static quest content that presents your character (and every other individual PC) as the "one true hero," and then just asks the players to ignore the fact that they are all doing the same quests. And that is just fine. If you are going to go the static, scripted content route, that is the way you have to do it, and at this point in time, that is the only way to get a high quality narrative experience.
And no, EVE does not present a dynamic world, not even close. A dynamic world is one in which the game itself reacts to the collective actions of players, not one in which (outside of the act of gathering resources) players are the content. EverQuest Next, if it lives up to half the promises, will be the closest MMOs have come to a dynamic world. If you kill enough of a type of enemy in a given area, they will realize "hey, this place isn't safe for us, we're going to bug out and go somewhere else." That is the route that, technology allowing, any game attempting to create a "living" world should take, whether online or offline. Give the NPCs actual likes and dislikes, and the ability to make a limited set of binary choices, and then let the players loose to interact with the world, and watch the world react.
The number one flaw of all sandbox games to date isn't the concept, it's the lack of well developed AI, the reliance on players to provide content without either a decent toolset with which to provide it, or the competence to provide it even if they had the toolset. The illusion of meaningful player choice and action in a traditional sandbox is impossible to really achieve, because the world doesn't react to you. You can't RP purging the countryside of a tribe of orcs, because as soon as you stop purging, they respawn, and it's like you were never there. At least in a game like TOR with scripted content, your choices have consequences inside the cutscenes, even if those consequences don't extend into the rest of the game.
the real dynamic World would indeed support the customization more , than normal customization
in fact, in a real, dynamic World, you might not be possible to replay the zones at all
EQnext mobs will still be scripted AI, if they go all the way, it should be possible for the mobs to win the entire zone
in short: you have to kill this many mobs per hour, if you want to progress
EVE is really dynamic..you never know, what is going to happen
thats the benefit of OWPVP..the downside is, that it scares away most of the playerbase
EQnext will prolly sell 300-400k boxes, and end up with 200k subs
the real dynamic World would indeed support the customization more , than normal customization
in fact, in a real, dynamic World, you might not be possible to replay the zones at all
EQnext mobs will still be scripted AI, if they go all the way, it should be possible for the mobs to win the entire zone
in short: you have to kill this many mobs per hour, if you want to progress
EVE is really dynamic..you never know, what is going to happen
thats the benefit of OWPVP..the downside is, that it scares away most of the playerbase
EQnext will prolly sell 300-400k boxes, and end up with 200k subs
You can't build a believable dynamic world simulation on players, it has to be done with AI. When players have to provide all the content, the worst of the worst dominate the game world and run amok, driving most of the rest of the players out of the game entirely. Games with free for all PvP make the world of the Walking Dead look like Mayberry.
I think EQN's sales will depend on how well it delivers on it's promises. If they do a decent job of creating the kind of world they say they are going to, I think we will find out exactly how large the "sandbox" fanbase really is, because every single one of them will at least buy and try, even if they don't stick around. *If* they actually make the game they are promising, and it isn't a massive success, it will be pretty definitive proof that the sandbox fanbase just isn't very big. If SWG had had the AI EQN is promising, it would probably still be running, and TOR wouldn't even exist. And I say that as someone who loves TOR.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
the real dynamic World would indeed support the customization more , than normal customization
in fact, in a real, dynamic World, you might not be possible to replay the zones at all
EQnext mobs will still be scripted AI, if they go all the way, it should be possible for the mobs to win the entire zone
in short: you have to kill this many mobs per hour, if you want to progress
EVE is really dynamic..you never know, what is going to happen
thats the benefit of OWPVP..the downside is, that it scares away most of the playerbase
EQnext will prolly sell 300-400k boxes, and end up with 200k subs
You can't build a believable dynamic world simulation on players, it has to be done with AI. When players have to provide all the content, the worst of the worst dominate the game world and run amok, driving most of the rest of the players out of the game entirely. Games with free for all PvP make the world of the Walking Dead look like Mayberry.
I think EQN's sales will depend on how well it delivers on it's promises. If they do a decent job of creating the kind of world they say they are going to, I think we will find out exactly how large the "sandbox" fanbase really is, because every single one of them will at least buy and try, even if they don't stick around. *If* they actually make the game they are promising, and it isn't a massive success, it will be pretty definitive proof that the sandbox fanbase just isn't very big. If SWG had had the AI EQN is promising, it would probably still be running, and TOR wouldn't even exist. And I say that as someone who loves TOR.
that is the very of definition dynamic Worlds, one side is winning, the other is losing
yes , it will drive away most normal players
which is why, they prolly wont go all the way
what happens , when a species becomes extinct?
QUEST: go , and kill 20 orcs..but the orcs are all dead, because im on a high population server?
it wont be really dynamic, just better AI, and tweaked respawns
yup..lets see, how many SW game fans there are left in the World, when their contract expires
it prolly wont be as bad , as wharhammer, but still bad enough
but then, perhaps the next dev can get the IP for a cheaper price
Why are you assuming Disney won't want to renew the contract with EA? Disney has stated that they have no interest in producing "core" games themselves. So as long as EA is willing to pay them whatever they are asking for the licensing fee, the license will stay with EA, and considering the guaranteed sales you get from slapping "Star Wars" onto something, I don't see what motive EA would have to be stingy.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Now if someone would make a nice Star Wars single/coop game for PC again. I expect dice to develop Battlefield 5 and put a coat of Star Wars over it, close enough. I don't like either in particular, so with 1313 being on hold/cancelled, there isn't much light at the end of the tunnel.
Maybe somone could develop a new X-Wing/Tie Fighter..there is a serious lack of quality space simulations, not limited to, but certainly including Star Wars based ones.
Of course i wouldn't say no to KoToR 3 or Jedi Knight 4, either, given that it meets the quality of the previous installments. The latest efforts in that direction with The Force Unleashed didn't live up to this, especially not on PC.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
yup..lets see, how many SW game fans there are left in the World, when their contract expires
it prolly wont be as bad , as wharhammer, but still bad enough
but then, perhaps the next dev can get the IP for a cheaper price
Why are you assuming Disney won't want to renew the contract with EA? Disney has stated that they have no interest in producing "core" games themselves. So as long as EA is willing to pay them whatever they are asking for the licensing fee, the license will stay with EA, and considering the guaranteed sales you get from slapping "Star Wars" onto something, I don't see what motive EA would have to be stingy.
youre on the right track there, but the wrong direction
youre placing a bottle of booze in front of a thirsty alcoholic, and youre assuming , that he wont touch it
Now if someone would make a nice Star Wars single/coop game for PC again. I expect dice to develop Battlefield 5 and put a coat of Star Wars over it, close enough. I don't like either in particular, so with 1313 being on hold/cancelled, there isn't much light at the end of the tunnel.
Maybe somone could develop a new X-Wing/Tie Fighter..there is a serious lack of quality space simulations, not limited to, but certainly including Star Wars based ones.
Of course i wouldn't say no to KoToR 3 or Jedi Knight 4, either, given that it meets the quality of the previous installments. The latest efforts in that direction with The Force Unleashed didn't live up to this, especially not on PC.
oh yea..to me, the best FPS EVER is stil SW BF1
it was simple, fun, and it WORKED
and the old Xwing..i sucked too much , to ever complete one, but still had so much fun
strike suit zero is okay, but, still not star wars
People are upset because SWTOR is doing just fine?
Essentially. One thing you will never find a shortage of on this site, people who want every game they don't personally enjoy to crash and burn so badly that no one would ever dare to make a game anything like it ever again. And when a game fails to do so, their nerd rage really gets going.
Originally posted by simplius
mostly, because 1½ mio players didnt get, what they wanted
what, they were promised
what, they paid for
add the disgruntled SWG players
this game is surrounded by enemies
and now, were stuck with the same , for the next 10 years
games, that start BIG, but fizzle out, faster than a roman candle
great
Actually, people buying TOR got exactly what they were promised, exactly what they paid for. A themepark MMO with BioWare story. That is all that was ever promised, and it is exactly what was delivered. Anyone who expected something else was either not paying attention, or an idiot. If you don't like themepark MMOs, or BioWare style narrative, that is perfectly fine, people have different tastes. But everybody knew that was the product that was being made, so anybody who doesn't like one or both of those elements, and paid money to play anyway, has nobody to blame but himself for the fact that that money was wasted.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
People are upset because SWTOR is doing just fine?
Essentially. One thing you will never find a shortage of on this site, people who want every game they don't personally enjoy to crash and burn so badly that no one would ever dare to make a game anything like it ever again. And when a game fails to do so, their nerd rage really gets going.
Originally posted by simplius
mostly, because 1½ mio players didnt get, what they wanted
what, they were promised
what, they paid for
add the disgruntled SWG players
this game is surrounded by enemies
and now, were stuck with the same , for the next 10 years
games, that start BIG, but fizzle out, faster than a roman candle
great
Actually, people buying TOR got exactly what they were promised, exactly what they paid for. A themepark MMO with BioWare story. That is all that was ever promised, and it is exactly what was delivered. Anyone who expected something else was either not paying attention, or an idiot. If you don't like themepark MMOs, or BioWare style narrative, that is perfectly fine, people have different tastes. But everybody knew that was the product that was being made, so anybody who doesn't like one or both of those elements, and paid money to play anyway, has nobody to blame but himself for the fact that that money was wasted.
Do i really need to go into a list of what i payed for and didn't get? In theory i agree with you but let's not gloss over some of the broken aspects of the game at launch that continued for months after.
Do i really need to go into a list of what i payed for and didn't get? In theory i agree with you but let's not gloss over some of the broken aspects of the game at launch that continued for months after.
Oh come on. The only people who honestly expect an experience with no bugs or incomplete features at launch are the ones who have never played a MMO before. And let's be fair, TOR was closer to bug free and feature complete than most. The majority of people who try to claim they didn't get what they paid for are the ones who were never on board with the game being a story driven themepark in the first place. And in that sense, they got exactly what they paid for, just not what they wished they were paying for.
And "broken" is a stretch, unless the Ops were broken. I never actually tried those.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
actual data on revenue from SWTOR specifically is sketchy, don't pay much heed to theorycrafters. The fact that it went f2p is pretty much proof that the gaming community at large didn't care for it. Now we are supposed to believe that people are paying more than a monthly sub on average? Yeah that makes sense.
Game is a failure. Eventually this will be proven, but before that happens, EA gets to parade around pretending things are rosie.
Comments
Last I checked, RP was accomplished heavily through emotes. They are mostly sold in the Cartel Market, even for subscribers. SWG didn't sell emotes. How is my reading comprehension now?
PS - you brought up (and keep emphasizing) SWG, not me.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
What's your point? The discussion I was in was about the comparative value of "making your own story" vs. participating in a story written and presented by professionals. What does how people get access to emotes have to do with that? Poorly thought out "personal stories" don't suddenly get a quality upgrade just because somebody has a wider range of emotes to use in them.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
You need to understand that people create stories by telling them. It's not a blog that guildies must read. It happens it-game, in real-time.
Emotes assist in personal stories when roleplaying, and they cost real money in SWTOR.
It's not really up to you to judge. Some of the roleplay experiences I've had in SWTOR were better than the scripted game. Depends how imaginative you are and how imaginative others are. If you are in a guild that just stands around and watches others .. don't expect much. They are not there to entertain you, they are a queue for you to jump in. If the plot sucks, then it should fall back to the complainer .... /looks-at-you. [unless of course the complainer never participated, in which case the complainer is a piece of work indeed.]
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
We could argue forever about the relative value of fully implemented scripted content vs unscripted content which is limited to text and emotes, but I doubt either of us would have a change of opinion. My original point which led off onto this tangent was just a response to someone saying SWG created far more immersion than TOR, to which I replied that that depends entirely on what best adds to a given player's immersion, and if what does that for you is professionally written, fully implemented narrative content, then between the two games TOR would be the one that offered better immersion. Let's face it, SWG went through two periods when it came to provided narrative; when there basically wasn't any at all, and when there was one that made WoW look like fine literature.
And regardless of your opinion of the value of RP in online games, the sad reality is that in most games the tools available to the player to make that RP seem like a part of the game world are substantially more limited today than they were in text MUDs twenty years ago. The greater the capability gap in how developers can present a narrative, and how players can do so, the less appealing "player stories" are going to be, even to those who might in theory find them worthwhile.
On the bright side, features like the storybricks system that is going to be included with EverQuest Next show some promise. If MMOs can reach the point where the AI is full featured enough to do a decent job of simulating a dynamic, living world, then it might actually be possible for individuals or groups of players to *truly* build their own stories, ones that actually take place in the game world, and see that world react, rather than constructing limited narratives that exist entirely in the chat window.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I am always entertained at people still raging at a 2 year old game for not being something it was never suppose to be.
SWTOR isn't SWG2 Electric bigaloo so it will be forever hated.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
the special snowflake approach doesnt Work well in big mainstram mmos
if they are to service mios of players, they cant spend too much time on each individual
if i need to plow a field, i get a tractor, i dont rebuild my car to pull the plow
sounds to me, that you want mainstream mmos , to do, what they were never intended to do
the dynamic World is already up and running, its called EVE online...try that
Ok your reading comprehension is actually not that good from this post anyways.
You say most are sold through cartel even for subs. Well this is not true subs get most emotes for free. And you say most but the ones they don't have through the cartel market with real money again not true. Most buy from the AH or use their allotted 500/month on items most do not spend real money on emotes.
Second you say most emotes are purchased through the cartel market for real money in general. Again this in not accurate most buy emotes they want through the AH with in game currency not real money.
Anyways just oust wanted to point out a couple facts you were a tad off on.
Special snowflake? The "your character is special" approach usually isn't facilitated by a dynamic world, it's facilitated by adding a bunch of static quest content that presents your character (and every other individual PC) as the "one true hero," and then just asks the players to ignore the fact that they are all doing the same quests. And that is just fine. If you are going to go the static, scripted content route, that is the way you have to do it, and at this point in time, that is the only way to get a high quality narrative experience.
And no, EVE does not present a dynamic world, not even close. A dynamic world is one in which the game itself reacts to the collective actions of players, not one in which (outside of the act of gathering resources) players are the content. EverQuest Next, if it lives up to half the promises, will be the closest MMOs have come to a dynamic world. If you kill enough of a type of enemy in a given area, they will realize "hey, this place isn't safe for us, we're going to bug out and go somewhere else." That is the route that, technology allowing, any game attempting to create a "living" world should take, whether online or offline. Give the NPCs actual likes and dislikes, and the ability to make a limited set of binary choices, and then let the players loose to interact with the world, and watch the world react.
The number one flaw of all sandbox games to date isn't the concept, it's the lack of well developed AI, the reliance on players to provide content without either a decent toolset with which to provide it, or the competence to provide it even if they had the toolset. The illusion of meaningful player choice and action in a traditional sandbox is impossible to really achieve, because the world doesn't react to you. You can't RP purging the countryside of a tribe of orcs, because as soon as you stop purging, they respawn, and it's like you were never there. At least in a game like TOR with scripted content, your choices have consequences inside the cutscenes, even if those consequences don't extend into the rest of the game.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
the real dynamic World would indeed support the customization more , than normal customization
in fact, in a real, dynamic World, you might not be possible to replay the zones at all
EQnext mobs will still be scripted AI, if they go all the way, it should be possible for the mobs to win the entire zone
in short: you have to kill this many mobs per hour, if you want to progress
EVE is really dynamic..you never know, what is going to happen
thats the benefit of OWPVP..the downside is, that it scares away most of the playerbase
EQnext will prolly sell 300-400k boxes, and end up with 200k subs
You can't build a believable dynamic world simulation on players, it has to be done with AI. When players have to provide all the content, the worst of the worst dominate the game world and run amok, driving most of the rest of the players out of the game entirely. Games with free for all PvP make the world of the Walking Dead look like Mayberry.
I think EQN's sales will depend on how well it delivers on it's promises. If they do a decent job of creating the kind of world they say they are going to, I think we will find out exactly how large the "sandbox" fanbase really is, because every single one of them will at least buy and try, even if they don't stick around. *If* they actually make the game they are promising, and it isn't a massive success, it will be pretty definitive proof that the sandbox fanbase just isn't very big. If SWG had had the AI EQN is promising, it would probably still be running, and TOR wouldn't even exist. And I say that as someone who loves TOR.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
that is the very of definition dynamic Worlds, one side is winning, the other is losing
yes , it will drive away most normal players
which is why, they prolly wont go all the way
what happens , when a species becomes extinct?
QUEST: go , and kill 20 orcs..but the orcs are all dead, because im on a high population server?
it wont be really dynamic, just better AI, and tweaked respawns
expanded themepark...thats all
When I started to read this thread's title, I got excited...
"EA Reveals that their SW deal done in May..."
Then I read the rest of it...
"...2013 lasts a full decade"
And my excitement disintegrated. It's going to be a long wait.
yup..lets see, how many SW game fans there are left in the World, when their contract expires
it prolly wont be as bad , as wharhammer, but still bad enough
but then, perhaps the next dev can get the IP for a cheaper price
Why are you assuming Disney won't want to renew the contract with EA? Disney has stated that they have no interest in producing "core" games themselves. So as long as EA is willing to pay them whatever they are asking for the licensing fee, the license will stay with EA, and considering the guaranteed sales you get from slapping "Star Wars" onto something, I don't see what motive EA would have to be stingy.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
stingy? they want to make more Money,,,thats why
they pushed this game out , at least a year too soon
do you think, that was BWs decision?
did EA really NEED the Money?
oops,,they did actually..to buy the rights for ALL SW games
in other Words,,they accepted a lesser product, to gain the rights, to make MORE...
Now if someone would make a nice Star Wars single/coop game for PC again. I expect dice to develop Battlefield 5 and put a coat of Star Wars over it, close enough. I don't like either in particular, so with 1313 being on hold/cancelled, there isn't much light at the end of the tunnel.
Maybe somone could develop a new X-Wing/Tie Fighter..there is a serious lack of quality space simulations, not limited to, but certainly including Star Wars based ones.
Of course i wouldn't say no to KoToR 3 or Jedi Knight 4, either, given that it meets the quality of the previous installments. The latest efforts in that direction with The Force Unleashed didn't live up to this, especially not on PC.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
youre on the right track there, but the wrong direction
youre placing a bottle of booze in front of a thirsty alcoholic, and youre assuming , that he wont touch it
that is rarely the case
oh yea..to me, the best FPS EVER is stil SW BF1
it was simple, fun, and it WORKED
and the old Xwing..i sucked too much , to ever complete one, but still had so much fun
strike suit zero is okay, but, still not star wars
I am confused here.
People are upset because SWTOR is doing just fine?
mostly, because 1½ mio players didnt get, what they wanted
what, they were promised
what, they paid for
add the disgruntled SWG players
this game is surrounded by enemies
and now, were stuck with the same , for the next 10 years
games, that start BIG, but fizzle out, faster than a roman candle
great
i never played SWG, its performance speaks for itself
the same with swtor, if you catch my drift?
pandaland is still nr 1 ..thats really funny
but, also , really sad
Actually, people buying TOR got exactly what they were promised, exactly what they paid for. A themepark MMO with BioWare story. That is all that was ever promised, and it is exactly what was delivered. Anyone who expected something else was either not paying attention, or an idiot. If you don't like themepark MMOs, or BioWare style narrative, that is perfectly fine, people have different tastes. But everybody knew that was the product that was being made, so anybody who doesn't like one or both of those elements, and paid money to play anyway, has nobody to blame but himself for the fact that that money was wasted.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Do i really need to go into a list of what i payed for and didn't get? In theory i agree with you but let's not gloss over some of the broken aspects of the game at launch that continued for months after.
Oh come on. The only people who honestly expect an experience with no bugs or incomplete features at launch are the ones who have never played a MMO before. And let's be fair, TOR was closer to bug free and feature complete than most. The majority of people who try to claim they didn't get what they paid for are the ones who were never on board with the game being a story driven themepark in the first place. And in that sense, they got exactly what they paid for, just not what they wished they were paying for.
And "broken" is a stretch, unless the Ops were broken. I never actually tried those.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
actual data on revenue from SWTOR specifically is sketchy, don't pay much heed to theorycrafters. The fact that it went f2p is pretty much proof that the gaming community at large didn't care for it. Now we are supposed to believe that people are paying more than a monthly sub on average? Yeah that makes sense.
Game is a failure. Eventually this will be proven, but before that happens, EA gets to parade around pretending things are rosie.