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Realism please!
nstarun
Member Posts: 4
I've played MMOs on and off since Ultima Online, getting into UO and WoW, and I'm amazed as to how little the genre has progressed in all that time. I know, the worlds are bigger than UO, the worlds are prettier than UO, and the online communities within MMOs have been fostered and developed to a greater extent, but the core elements of these games haven't really changed.
1) Combat is still that sort of Dungeons and Dragons, turn based affair where you keep slashing away at the bad guy until they run out of 'points.' Who fights like this? It looks terrible and turns combat into figuring out simple equations to find the right time to drink a potion or cast some goofy spell.
2) Games are still arranged so that kids in high school with no jobs or lives (beyond their online 'life') can spend all day on their computer, achieving ridiculously powerful characters and becoming invulnerable to all but the other jobless kids
3) Online worlds (with some exceptions) are still static. For example, Alliance territories in WoW can't be overrun by the Horde or vice versa. Real combat between these factions is confined to the designated "contested territories" or the new battle worlds or whatever they were about to release when i finally quit. Player actions are not unique and do not affect change.
4) Players still spend time achieving 'levels'. How exciting is it to spend all that time gaining experience so that you can have '60' above your name rather than 50? so that you can kill some weird friggin beast with a 60 above its name, rather than the weird creature with a 50? whee.
It just seems like a shame that noone has the courage to release an MMO which challenges these norms of online play. Realism is not something to be afraid of, in fact there are a lot of gamers who are really turned off by the whole "I'm going to cast a magical spell on you" crap. Combat and character experience needs to be overhauled since even the greatest warrior can be dropped with a single well-placed arrow - this element of danger creates excitement. Players need the ability to change the online world, be it through helping to conquer an area of that world for their faction/guild/whatever, helping to finance a new fortification, or through affecting market prices by flooding, monopolizing, etc.
I've seen that some of the things I'm referring to here have been changed, or are being changed in upcoming games (more realistic combat in an upcoming ancient Roman MMO, the independence and ability to affect the universe in EVE, etc), but it still seems like there's a lot left to tackle. I'm waiting for that game where the devs aren't afraid of giving low level characters some chance of killing high levels, where players and player organizations can change the entire political, economic, and geographic landscape (npc kingdoms can be defeated and towns razed or captured, prices can be altered by player efforts, fortifications and towns can be built). And it seems like the technology to do all this is pretty much in place, which gives me hope that one day such a game will be made. Or maybe there's something in the works I haven't heard about?
Comments
They tried that. The game failed... it was called: Shadowbane
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
OP: You're totally right, we've not advanced that much since UO, and in some ways we've regressed, but there are good ideas out there, but unless they're wrapped in a pretty package and politically correct, they're not getting the funding they deserve.
As for Shadowbane, it was a great idea/system with somewhat flawed implementation, and it was not very nice to look at, and catered to the hardest core PvP audience (rock on). If Shadowbane was remade with nicer graphics and some other relatively minor changes the game would probably do as well as any other.
Cheers,
Gray Shadow
Only one MMO that stands out from then all and its Project Entropia.
Want realism play that. Its a "real" as you can get IMO.
On Nov 25, 2005 Edward78 wrote:
Well, it has no equal in the PvP/city building/sieging area. To spite all the bad things people have said about it, atleast WP had the bells to make a MMORPG not be PvE focused. I am going back to try the lore server when it is setup, the only worry I have is the low pop. Well just canceled acount for the 4th time mqybe a week back, I am so wanting another open PvP game besides Shadowbane.
On Dec 17, 2005 Sundiego wrote:
Great game if you dont mind the Extremly bad Graphics
On Nov 10, 2005 Darkchronic wrote:
Well, I played the free trial, and it honestly, it wasn't bad, I was considering signing up, then the program crashes, it then does that another 8 times in 1/2 hour. So no, no Shadowbane for me
These are recent reviews of Shadowbane from this site, and if you read the feedback you'll see a lot more like them. They seem to generally affirm that the game concept is progressive and entertaining, but also that the execution of that game concept was not top notch.
So here we are several years later, and its probably about time that a more accomplished studio gives this kind of game a chance. Shadowbane doesn't strike me as particularly polished, an important quality to which WoW owes much of its success. SB apparently has significant lag problems, an online community which is not well-facilitated or in touch, and is graphically unimpressive. I can't speak for how accessible this game is, though my hunch is that the average person on the street would have no idea where to start.
These are flaws, but flaws which can be overcome. I think if a developer decided to put all the elements together in order to create a product which is accessible to the general public (the game doesn't require its own language under which to operate) and possesses that all-important polish, they'd be sitting on a major hit - and attract a lot of casual gamers to mmo play
EDIT: I guess I should more clearly define what I meant by "realism". I was referring to game content and mechanics, not so much that players would be wagering US currency on the outcome, lol. I'm hoping for a game in which there are no dragons and those who would say "Abra Cadabra" find themselves downed by an arrow or two.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
person A with "no life" has reached lvl 99 in 1 month, total playtime: 300 hours
Person B with "a life" has reached lvl 99 in 4 months, total playtime: 300 hours
same amount of time put in, I see no problem here.
but ofcourse, we have the equipment problem thats only in instances that take 4 hours.
well honnestly, if you don't have 4 free hours on saturday night, then I would really start to wonder what kind of job do I have
but wait, we have a girlfriend/boyfriend that demands attention 24/7.
honnestly, my father has 2 children, 3 jobs and a pretty demanding wife who he helps with her job as well, and even he has enough spare time for a 4 hour long instance.
ofcourse your character won't be as strong as someone who spents a lot of time on the game, whats so wrong about that?
Time spent in game should affect your character, of course, level should give you a great-moderate advantage over other players (depending whether or not it's one lower level player, or a group of them), and items should give you a low-moderate edge (depending on whether or not you're wielding superior weapons or epics).
That said, Player Skill/Tactics/*Intelligence* should contribuate a moderate-good amount as well. A high level player with epic gear, that plays like an idiot (aka spams his most damaging spell/skill) should probably be defeated by a decent level character with good equipment and a firm grasp of tactics/intelligence. (aka gets the jump on his perhaps weakened opponent, successfully anticipates the higher level's uber-move spam, and reacts accordingly)
Additionally, a large group (5-10) of level 20-40's should be able to kill a level 50 (not without cost of course). The problem becomes when spending epic amounts of time in game makes you *unkillable* to the average player.
In short, time in game/level/items should give you the edge, not the guaranteed win.
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad."
Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
person A with "no life" has reached lvl 99 in 1 month, total playtime: 300 hours
Person B with "a life" has reached lvl 99 in 4 months, total playtime: 300 hours
but ofcourse, we have the equipment problem thats only in instances that take 4 hours.
well honnestly, if you don't have 4 free hours on saturday night, then I would really start to wonder what kind of job do I have
but wait, we have a girlfriend/boyfriend that demands attention 24/7.
honnestly, my father has 2 children, 3 jobs and a pretty demanding wife who he helps with her job as well, and even he has enough spare time for a 4 hour long instance.
ofcourse your character won't be as strong as someone who spents a lot of time on the game, whats so wrong about that?
No kidding, Gameloading. I have a full time job, sometimes working into 50 hours a week. I date regularly (Meaning I'm usually out with someone 3-4 times a week.) I also spend time with friends and family. I'm also in training for the US Marine Corps. Meaning I go to the gym atleast 3 times a week for roughly 2 hours. But here I am, Thursday night. I could EASILY do a 4 hour instance.
Seriously guys. It's time to stop making excuses. If you're life is so insanely busy that 4 hours is too much time, just cut MMOs out. Go back to single players. If that's out of the question, organize your time better. Plan days to do certain things. I go to the gym on the same days ever week. I usually go out on the same days every week. Plan plan plan!
Dedthom: Your view is justified, however I believe Roma Victor is an exception.
The game is being produced by a few unpaid independents who share the same views as the thread starter.
I kid you not, here is a page with the current implemented features listed, inlcuding "Real-time twitch combat balanced with character skills", "No levelling treadmill", "No camping", "Open PvP with safe areas".
And finally, here's a post by the bloke who started RV, in a thread titled "Pet Peeves of MMORPGs?"
My pet peeve is people exploiting flaws in the game design and/or developed systems in a manner that is clearly not in the spirit of the game.
Oh and on a personal level when I'm actually playing MOGs I hate severe bullies, anti-social behaviour and newbie hunters.
-KFR
P.S. But then there's spawn camping, kill stealing, looting, level-grind, logging off in combat to avoid death, severe twinking, inappropriate nerfing, whining (repeatedly complaining about the same thing with no suggestions for improvement), poor game balance, stat-traps, ceilings to character development, both technical and gameplay downtimes (I mean 'resting' staring at the same graphics for ten minutes every five minutes is not fun), lack of communications facilities, poor interface and usability features, lack of true community, poor customer service, inappopriate billing methods and payment models, inherent instability in the virtual economy, lack of rewarding and challenging quests, narrowness of goals, lack of diversity in in player characters and gameplay activities... I think I should probably stop here - I could go on for a very long time.
RV is either going to work as promised, or crash completely. It's not going to sell out. Trust me
Yes, the OP makes good points.
Part of this, I believe, is due to the fact that the gaming public is maturing now from the previous 18 to 25 age-group to the 30+ age-group -- a part of life, if I may say so, when people demand more complexity, more depth, more realism, just plain MORE of everything ... and I don't think we will be satisfied till we get it.
I am more than willing to part with my subscription dollars for the company who will finally deliver the goods.
~ Ancient Membership ~
So... Who would expect a game developed on the dev team's spare time (generally unpaid as far as I understand) with no physical location to join and cooperate might succeed?
I've seen their devotion, and I've seen their progress, and I honestly think it will.
On the other hand: Who would think a team that put this kind of effort (almost called it sacrifice there) into a game would let it fall to become nothing but everything else, basically not worth making?
The people I speak of couldn't realistically be in it for the money. The money isn't realistic. But that's why I think the game is. Cash is obviously not the decisive factor.
I've said both this and that about what makes a game good, and what is great about Adellion (apart from the community), but I honestly think it is that last point that does all the difference. When the players affect the world, there is something to play for.
The future: Adellion
Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually
Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants)
Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens)
Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)