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[Column] Neverwinter: Is Neverwinter Really an MMO?
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
The Tourist is back and ready to roll in 2014. In this latest column, we visit Neverwinter and offer a few thoughts about its status as an MMO. Read on before heading to the comments to chat.
I sent out a tweet recently asking if Neverwinter's deserved to be included in this year's Game of the Year talks. The crux of the matter is simply this, with so few options, could be be ascribing more praise to the game than it perhaps deserves? Few players will deny that Neverwinter had an certain allure surrounding its launch. More than that, the game's first early experiences teeter on the edge of wonderousness.
Read more of Chris Coke's The Tourist: Is Neverwinter Really an MMO?
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Comments
Personally I look at this as a Friday night with some of my PnP friends who have got together to venture into whatever trouble we could find.
It was OUR adventure and we enjoy that aspect of it, just as with DDO before it Neverwinter offers up a very similar formula, and I find that formula works very well.
This game may not be an MMO in the true sense of the word, but it still has all the required elements of the genre, just not put together the right way, or with the requirement to actually play with others to get the task done. But this game is damn fun when played with good friends and in short bursts.
The definition of MMO has completely changed.
MMOs used to be MASSIVE. There is nothing "massive" about instanced 5v5 PvP etc.
It's like playing a game like Quake or Unreal Tournament, where you can chat with people while you search for CTF or TDM on the server browser. These new "MMOs" are nothing more than a glorified 3D version of the archaic server browser. However, instead of clicking on a text link via Unreal Tournament to connect, you virtually walk to a glowing door and click on it (SWTOR etc).
Can you elaborate on this? I don't see GW2's world being so much of a lobby.
The term MMO is becoming to vague. I think we need to start using qualifiers in front of the term. We have always used the "sandbox" or "themepark" qualifiers, now we need to add more, like "lobby" (ones like Neverwinter and Vindictus, travel to an instance, then return to lobby) and "small-scale" (ones that have persistent worlds, but only allow a much smaller player base to a server, I think Trove will be like this).
Lets start calling Lobby MMOs what they are. Dont just lump them in with other MMOs.
LoL is getting called an mmo, it doesn't even have a world. The term mmo doesn't imply a world at all. Massively multiplayer online means built for lots of people playing online doesn't it ? Everything else is really what the reader applies to it.
If you're going to start calling the worlds massive.... are they ? I can run across the world of most games in about 20 minutes. I can still see my house after 20 minutes of running in real life.....wouldn't really consider that a massive distance.
What they put at the end of mmo I think should say more about the game type than mmo does. ARPG, RPG, FPS, TPS ( third ) etc all give a better indication of what the game is. Maybe we just need a better name like IRPG instanced role playing game.
Seems like this same crap happens with every MMO.
Yes its an MMO, can we let this tired old argument end already......
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
How so?
GW2 is not a lobby game.
I don't think either of those define an MMO in any way, shape or form. UO is a classic MMORPG. It has no levels and for many years had no quests to speak of.
The central city, the part that somewhat makes it an MMO due to the fact that it is a massively multiplayer online could easily be replaced with a lobby screen without changing the gameplay one bit. There's little reason for that component to exist at all. And if it was changed to a lobby, it would still be an MMO, although that opens the doors to acknowledging that World of Tanks, Combat Arms and League of Legends are as much an MMO as UO or EQ.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
People spamming gold farming in chat.
Forced group content.
Broken English players.
Nerd raging guilds that require VoIP.
Yep, MMO.
What did Neverwinter do right?
I have to say The Foundry tops the list. You can have short adventures or long ones. And the list of options only gets better with each passing day.
The other thing it did right is keep the instances rather short. Whether you are pressed for time or have all day to play it usually didn't take too long to wrap up an instance. In and out. Rinse and repeat.
What did Neverwinter do wrong?
When I was playing the Dwarven instance area was on a four hour loop. So if you wanted to do it you have to make sure to login at the right time.
Some of the classes lacked "strengths". When you deal with MMOs, you think of the classes as rock, paper, scissors. Every class has another class they were weak against and another class that they swept the floor with. In this case, the wizard class was weak, the healers were difficult to play, and the warriors and rogues cleaned the floor with everybody. Both the warriros and the rogues had blocks. Wizards and healers did not. So even if you went to use your most powerful skill, you had a very good chance of the rogues and warriors simply blocking it and then you were toast. Plus one stun by a rogue and you were dead before you could recover.
Plus the crafting was horrible. No way to get bag space (except for two quests) unless you paid for it. Very slow crafting leveling, and when you maxed out on a crafting system you really didn't feel like you had achieved anything.
I played for a while but eventually the weaknesses of the game over took the strengths.
I'm not sure what you mean by "block" with the rogue and warrior (great weapon fighter?). Rogues dodge and Great weapon fighter runs fast. There is only one class that can block.
Steam: Neph
Nice column, and a detailed list of Neverwinter's qualities - both the good and the not-so-good ones. Fun game indeed.
As for the question, I agree with many posters above me: the label MMO is meaning less and less lately... Is Neverwinter an MMO? Dunno. To be honest, I don't even care, until I have fun with it when I log into it.
But of course I'm an rpg-er first, and never was an mmo-er, so it's easier for me to give a s**t on whether a game is a "true" mmo or not
If it's good, then it's irrevelant for me, that it's single, or mmo, or co-op, or closed multi, or lobby-based, or anything else.
Neverwinter is not a deep rpg, it doesn't have a great story (but some lore chunks are pretty well written) and it's not a perfect fit for theory crafting either (because every system in it is pretty bland and easy). Usually those are the aspects I seek and value in my games, so strictly based on those, Neverwinter shouldn't be a game for me exactly.
But on the other hand it's great fun in shorter, occasional 1 hour sessions. And it has the Foundry. That's enough for me to play Neverwinter pretty regularily, and supporting it a bit.
Actually no. It does imply a world. The term MMO was used to define a persistent online world in which a large number of players can impact / interact with each other. That is all. It does not imply anything whatsoever about HOW that impact takes place, and ignores any foolish themepark vs sandbox arguments, it is simply what was stated. The rest of it, such as RPG, is as you stated determined by other factors.
Whether or not NWO is an MMO or not... Well consider that GW1 was not considered an MMO, even by it's creators. Why? Because much like NWO, sure it had hubs where you could interact with other players, but the actual playable content (aka "the world") took the form of isolated instances in which you had no contact with players other than your own party. Not quite sure if it's as isolated in NWO, but if so, I would say it is not an MMO either.
madnessman
All running like mazed rats to the exact same locations, exact same quest objectives, and dungeon entrances, then onto the next corral only with difference decor.
Major or Current Characters
AC - The Brute lvl 85 macer -HG (retired)
SWG - Lihone Su'alkn Master Ranger/ MCH - Flurry (Retired)
EVE - Sulone - Cruiser Lover (Retired)
LOTRO - Sandric lvl 50 Burg (and others)- Brandywine (Retired)
GW2 - Sandric lvl 80 Thief - Dragonbrand (Retired)
NeverWinter - Sandric lvl 60 Rogue - Dragonshard (Retired)
Archage - Sandric lvl 50 everything - Naima (Active)
Others (Lots) (Retired)
It's an mmorpg, period. If I meet someone in the city and say, find me at the dungeon entrance. Guess what? He zones out of the city, into the area the dungeon is located, runs there and maybe helps some other players on the way until he finally sees me standing next to the entrance to the dungeon. Like I said, it's a mmorpg.
Just because the setting is based around the city of Neverwinter (I mean it is called Neverwinter online, not Abeir-Toril Online), doesn't make it any less of a mmorpg. It's like complaining that they made a mmorpg based on a well know fictional city that has served as the setting for hundreds of books and games and complaining that you can't go to Baldur's Gate.....no wait...you are complaining about that. It just ain't big enough!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I agree,MOST of the gaming terminology is loosely bantered around.A lot of the game is not instanced but the challenging meaningful parts are ALL instances,makes that part of the game,no more than a CO-op.
I still play UT99 and using that game as an example,it is really sad that i interact with usually around 4-6 players in a game,as many as what people do in an instance in a MMO such as this.
I would also say that i chat with people MORE in UT99 than i do in MMO's.it really is a sad indication of the MMO genre.
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