Brad did just post - "Changing that. Just did a couple of posts on MMORPG.com and will start posting everywhere I can starting today. I won't be able to keep up with everything here, but it's the right call."
The backers need to get a bit more motivated to spread the word, so do the devs. They need to do some more advertising on other sites and interviews get the word out and act like they really want to make this game.
The video on the main page was kind of boring and didn't really have much enthusiasm behind it, just a bunch of buzz words like "epic"(damn i hate this over used word). Didn't really pull me in enough to spend anything on the idea of the game yet, but they still have some time. Also the stretch goals are just...uh... I don't even know who put those together but they seem like pipe dreams.
I would like a nice PvE game to go along with a hopefully good PvP game (CU) in a couple years but I don't know if this one will be able to do it the way its turning out so far. Wish them luck though.
Hey its not to late for the people who are afraid of playing a game where you actually have to know your class, be on your toes and actually feel like you did something worth wild in the last 10 years in an mmo. Dammit get on board and help out. Give this man a 2nd chance!
Bit puzzled by the decision to gate off classes based on kick-starter funds, I realise its to get people to donate based on class affiliation, but it just sounds like the game will be pretty crap unless it gets the full funding.
Bit puzzled by the decision to gate off classes based on kick-starter funds, I realise its to get people to donate based on class affiliation, but it just sounds like the game will be pretty crap unless it gets the full funding.
They are going to rework the stretch goals... Also there will probably be funding from other areas if this ks is successful.. They just want the power to be in their hands since a successful ks equals community has spoken...
Bit puzzled by the decision to gate off classes based on kick-starter funds, I realise its to get people to donate based on class affiliation, but it just sounds like the game will be pretty crap unless it gets the full funding.
This^
If the game gets basic funding 800k-999k it will have maybe 4-5 classes and 3-4 races (fighter thief cleric mage/ human elf dwarf orc) That's not the huge wolrd with varied class and races most posters here seem to think patheon will be. The KS will have to do very well and meet several million dollars in stretch goals to get basics like crafting, a ranger class, (ie more then base classes) and more then base races.
I can see Brad getting his 800K+ but backers have to be really hopefully if they think he'll make the several million he'll need to come even close to a vanguard/EQ type game. Basically looks like Brads setting it up to have several kickstarters over the next 4-7 years (he couldn't make his vanguard schedule with a 40 million budget with Microsoft and more from SOE he won't make it in 3 years with a 1 million budget from kickstarter where he has no oversight IMHO)
Does no one remember Vanguard at launch? What a complete let down it was? All the broken promises? The stories of how the staff were all sacked whilst Mcquaid lost all his backers money and reportedly did very little work? SOE having to bail them out and spending years trying to fix it?
I'd seriously advise waiting until launch to see the reviews before spending any money on this.
I remember that VG is in my top 5 mmos of all time list, despite the problems.
I have never heard of a mmo being released and people not losing jobs, you may not of liked the way it happend, but it is not unique to VG.
Looks like Brad's trying to make another huge and bland game world, but now with forced downtimes, forced grouping and action combat.
Meh.
Well, that sounds good to me (didn't think Vanguard had a bland world at all).
I doubt I'll give him money but if this is completed and it is what he says it is then "I'm in".
I'm just not sure how they think $800k is enough to release the game. Unless I missed something (only saw part of the video and with sound off) and he is chipping in additional funds.
It's not enough to make an MMO, but he knows that. With Kickstarter, you have to reach your goal or you don't get anything, so he set it low enough to ensure he gets *something*. That's why you see basic game features listed further down the "stretch goals" like crafting at 2.5M. It looks like they believe they need closer to 4M to fund the game.
ah good call and makes sense.
They have options after the Kickstarter, they can do another kickstarter later, get investments or pair with someone to get funding...They would rather kickstarter it they said, but they have to show people are interested, despite the bad feelings many have for Brad, from VG.
I don't think I saw any claims that this kickstarter was going to make the game, they even said depending on how it goes, it would guide them on what they need to do to get enough funding.
This is what I'm talking about. On the forums people constantly say things like, "There are a TON of people who want old school style MMO's" "The MAJORITY of gamers are sick of these new themepark games!" "Why won't devs realize that there's a HUGE community waiting for an old school game?"
Just like Camelot Unchained which got a bit ridiculous in it's hype considering it didn't exist, they still only got 15k backers despite hitting their goal.
15k is a lot of people if you're talking about chatting on an internet forum about MMO's. 15k people will make a lot of noise. But that's a really really tiny almost non-existent number in terms of playerbase for a game. I'm not sure what the plan is on keeping CU going after launch unless there's a massive influx of people from somewhere.
And now again, they're 11% of the way there in terms of funding and if they stay on this track, they'll hit their target with about 8k-10k backers. That's just to get the game started! Once it's out, I'm really curious what the plan is to maintain players.
Even if someone supports a game, that doesn't guarantee that they will like it when its released or a couple months after release. That's why you need to attract a million players, so when 2/3's of them leave you still have a playerbase. But if you start out with 30k players, you can't afford to lose a single one and need to somehow find others to join.
In any case, best of luck, I hope it turns out how you hope - I want everyone to have a game to call home.
Not sure how you translate kickstarter backers as general interest in the game or people that will play at launch? They aren't even close to related.
Why not? I don't see any other metrics providing evidence of an "old school" community. Even polls done on this site are sitting in the 10's or sometimes 100's. I'd say kickstarter is well known and 15k is a sizeable population.
I'm not doing a scientific analysis, I'm just stating that if there were that many people that are adamant about someone making an old school game, you'd think they'd want to show their support. Or they can just continue to hang out on forums wondering why no one makes games for them.
Here's an example based off a popular IP:
Torment: Tides of Numenera (single player game) got 75k backers and raised $4.1 million - I'd say that's pretty impressive level of support for a single player game based on Planescape Torment which originally sold a paltry 20k copies. So over the years, it's legacy has grown to the point where it has almost four times more fans than it did the first time around.
So if someone were to say, Torment had a huge cult following, I'd be very inclined to agree with them.
The other part of this equation is, if kickstarter doesn't mean anything, and kickstarter happens to be where developers are trying to bring back the old school MMO, isn't there a disconnect somewhere?
I don't want this to be like the xfire stat discussions. Unless you have numbers showing otherwise, kickstarter is the best metric available. And actual data > forum anecdotes (by many many magnitudes)
1. A lot of people do not trust Brad.
2. People do not want to give money for something that will not even poke it's head for a beta for 3 years.
3. People do not even want to pay money to play mmos anymore, period.
So no, backers on kickstarter for a non IP project 'x', do not have much to say about the interest in a specific subset of mmos.
The game will not even have crafting unless they can raise 2.5 million. For the game to have all the basic initial features I personally want in an MMORPG they have to raise at least 3.8 million US dollars. To get to what I call an awesome gaming experience they have to raise 6.8 million dollars in thirty eight days. Can they do this?
I tell you what man. I will gladly fork over forty five bucks if they can come near to 3.8 million as at that point it becomes a worthwhile investment toward a game I might enjoy. I might well double that with change to a hundred dollars if they approach 6.8 million. Otherwise I am keeping my money and they can err... (considers various turns of language) bake blueberry muffins.
To get my money you need to have something worthwhile to show and enough investment to reach worthy game play goals and I am willing to pay.
2. People do not want to give money for something that will not even poke it's head for a beta for 3 years.
3. People do not even want to pay money to play mmos anymore, period.
So no, backers on kickstarter for a non IP project 'x', do not have much to say about the interest in a specific subset of mmos.
I have to disagree with you. First off nearly every Kickstarter is for a specific non-IP project, at most you might see a spiritual successor to a popular IP, but for the most part nearly every Kickstarter is going to be unique project because that's the nature of things that get Kickstarted. Popular IPs go through publishers.
As far as Kickstarter being a valid metric, name a better metric we can go by at this time. These forums? Probably not. There are a lot of people of specific niche crowds here. It's one of the best metrics we can get at this time. Remember that having a small sampling of available data (like Kickstarter versus the entire population) may be enough data to draw conclusions on as far as statistics go.
As for your generalizations:
1. There is certainly some distrust for him for those who know the rumors, but I'm willing to bet the majority of people don't know. Yes, Brad worked on Vanguard and it was a disaster, but mainly because of bugs and technical issues and not game design. Many people regard the game design as good, and for the most part Brad is in the designer role not the programmer/technical aspect. I'd bet money that the number of people who may be interested in the concept of the Kickstarter and didn't back it because of distrust of Brad would be less than 5% and probably even less than 1%.
2. Many successful Kickstarters have 2-3 year+ date estimates and they still get funded. Pathfinder is (was?) over 2 years I think and it reached it's funding goal for example.
3. That's just completely untrue, especially the type of people who are the target audience of this Kickstarter. We are talking adults who are likely middle aged (30s+) and played old school PvE focused MMOs extensively like EQ, Vanguard, FFXI...
Originally posted by Jemcrystal Kickstarters - yucky. I pay for my burger after it's been cooked and coating in ketchup. Unless I can get someone else to buy me lunch! I doooo.
Well, a lot of gamers these day seem to eat crap burgers and then spend their days complaining on forums how there's nothing good to eat.
I don't mind going out on a limb to be in on he ground-floor of something I can maybe help be good. Of course, it's easier and maybe more fun for people to just spend years naysaying every game. I'm personally getting bored going back to forums a month after every new game launches and feeds us the same crap.
So, at least they're trying to provide something different. If it turns out to be a failed project, maybe it will at least perk some ears in the industry that there is interest in something other than the same shallow, solo-quest-grind crap we've been force fed for years.
Either way, whether the project fails in the end or not, I'm willing to put some cash in a direct I think is better than what we're currently stuck with.
I. I followed Vanguard from before Sigil was even named Sigil. That game failed because Brad can't manage his way out of a wet paper bag. I will never give money to any project he is spearheading again, no matter how much I want to see a true, oldschool game.
It's unfortunate that Brad is the only person trying to really make a true, oldschool game because his failures are likely to be taken as a lack of viability. When in face it's simply that Brad is a management failure. Perhaps he once had design skills. Perhaps he still does. But even his kickstarter writeup is all about pie in the sky dreams that we've seen before, without any solid indication of how he's learned from his past failures and will improve/fix them. I wouldn't back this project even if it didn't have Brad's name - because the kickstarter page does not display any level of ability to actually design a game.
By actually design a game, I mean create and stick to schedules. The actual work rather than the dreaming. Everyone can dream. But when it comes to backing a kickstarter, I need to considerably more than dreaming before I'll part with my money.
And no crafting without 2.5 million? Seriously? I'm not interested in funding half a game, with desirable features held hostage in stretch goals.
Vanguard is still an awesome game, and the game I play the most often, the game I keep going back to.
If you're hesitant about backing because of Vanguard, give him a chance and read these two posts-
"I'm not disagreeing on the CEO thing, which is in progress. And pardon me if this sounds defensive, but I was Project Manager on EQ 1 and that game shipped on-time and in pretty good shape (there we connectivity issues and we didn't have enough bandwidth going into San Diego at launch, but we fixed that right away). I did make mistakes on VG, but there were also other factors involved (regime change at MSFT, SOE not being able to fund us the extra 6 months we needed, etc.)[source]the chief creative officer, they're looking for someone to direct operations. "
Anyways, I have faith in Ceythos. I think he did great working on Vanguard. I think Brad put together a great team, and I don't think these guys would be working for him unless they knew they could deliver.
I do wish Brad the best on creating this game. But the rewards need to be better for me to donate. The first 100,000 backers of $50 or more should get a free copy of the game and 2 year membership, and alpha/beta invite. There's 5,000,000 million to cover just about the entire list of goals. What is scaring me away right now is only 1,008 backers. I wish I knew how many people are thinking about backing but haven't yet.
2. People do not want to give money for something that will not even poke it's head for a beta for 3 years.
3. People do not even want to pay money to play mmos anymore, period.
So no, backers on kickstarter for a non IP project 'x', do not have much to say about the interest in a specific subset of mmos.
I have to disagree with you. First off nearly every Kickstarter is for a specific non-IP project, at most you might see a spiritual successor to a popular IP, but for the most part nearly every Kickstarter is going to be unique project because that's the nature of things that get Kickstarted. Popular IPs go through publishers.
As far as Kickstarter being a valid metric, name a better metric we can go by at this time. These forums? Probably not. There are a lot of people of specific niche crowds here. It's one of the best metrics we can get at this time. Remember that having a small sampling of available data (like Kickstarter versus the entire population) may be enough data to draw conclusions on as far as statistics go.
As for your generalizations:
1. There is certainly some distrust for him for those who know the rumors, but I'm willing to bet the majority of people don't know. Yes, Brad worked on Vanguard and it was a disaster, but mainly because of bugs and technical issues and not game design. Many people regard the game design as good, and for the most part Brad is in the designer role not the programmer/technical aspect. I'd bet money that the number of people who may be interested in the concept of the Kickstarter and didn't back it because of distrust of Brad would be less than 5% and probably even less than 1%.
2. Many successful Kickstarters have 2-3 year+ date estimates and they still get funded. Pathfinder is (was?) over 2 years I think and it reached it's funding goal for example.
3. That's just completely untrue, especially the type of people who are the target audience of this Kickstarter. We are talking adults who are likely middle aged (30s+) and played old school PvE focused MMOs extensively like EQ, Vanguard, FFXI...
1. Those that don't know, if they read about any single thread mentioning this or him, it is brought up, so they will know, and I do not know the truth 100%, but that doesn't stop those that don't either from maybe overstating anything that happened. So I stand by what I said.
2. Pathfinder is a IP that is popular, and it is being done by the people that make their books, so it was not the best example. I read comments all the time in here about people not wanting to give money, even if they get the game for something so far away, so I stand by what I said. I could link them, but really they are not hard to find everywhere people bring kickstarter up. People even characterize kickstarter as a bunch of rich people wanting their money, instead of using theirs, or schemers and cheats... When I say people, I do not mean everyone, but you have a good amount that fall into these catagories.
3. I stand by what I said, a lot of people do not want to pay period, no matter what game they want to play. I am not saying their are not enough people that will pay, just a lot do not.
4. They are just starting, and have some video with placeholder graphics, and they haven't done a stellar job of doing their tiers and presenting things. This also bring up another subset that are willing to give money to kickstarter, that if you do not have a good video and 'x' amount of progress, they will not give you the time of day.
All these things add up to cut off people/audiences that may play a mmo if it is released, but not give money.
Hey, I am not tearing it down, and I loved EQ/VG, and I may be giving money to this (it would be my first kickstarter I have, if I do), but I reject that it is the guage of interest in a sub-set of mmos.
Originally posted by eqravenprince I do wish Brad the best on creating this game. But the rewards need to be better for me to donate. The first 100,000 backers of $50 or more should get a free copy of the game and 2 year membership, and alpha/beta invite. There's 5,000,000 million to cover just about the entire list of goals. What is scaring me away right now is only 1,008 backers. I wish I knew how many people are thinking about backing but haven't yet.
I think that is a little overboard, you do get a free copy of the game for $50 ($45 tier, but it is limited, can't remember the $55 unlimited one), and a alpha invite, think a free month, but a free year or two would kill their revenue stream imo. It would suck if they actually pull it off, and then it flounders because almost everyone has a free ride.
I could see maybe $100, giving a year, they have not said what they are going to do about subs, or f2p etc....But I would think it would be subs, and if they do $9.99 or something, that would be a nice discount. The $250 is lifetime $1 yearly subs.
Originally posted by eqravenprince I do wish Brad the best on creating this game. But the rewards need to be better for me to donate. The first 100,000 backers of $50 or more should get a free copy of the game and 2 year membership, and alpha/beta invite. There's 5,000,000 million to cover just about the entire list of goals. What is scaring me away right now is only 1,008 backers. I wish I knew how many people are thinking about backing but haven't yet.
I think that is a little overboard, you do get a free copy of the game for $50 ($45 tier, but it is limited, can't remember the $55 unlimited one), and a alpha invite, think a free month, but a free year or two would kill their revenue stream imo. It would suck if they actually pull it off, and then it flounders because almost everyone has a free ride.
I could see maybe $100, giving a year, they have not said what they are going to do about subs, or f2p etc....But I would think it would be subs, and if they do $9.99 or something, that would be a nice discount. The $250 is lifetime $1 yearly subs.
He has answered -
Q: brad, have you guys thought about the subscription model? f2p, monthly sub, or a bit of both?
<div bbcodequote"="">
He hasn't said if there will be micro-transactions as far as I know, but I would guess that it's not, considering he's trying to cater to the 'old school MMO' crowd.
If you think that a $120-150 level or something like that which comes with a year sub would be a good pledge level, you should let them know. (Edit: just the first year, then a normal sub after that).
I suspect the smaller budget will help the leadership execute more efficiently (vs Vanguard larger budget). I think Richard Branson once said "small business is beautiful", and so I hope Pantheon will match that expectation.
I plan to support this one just because I loved EQ.
Originally posted by Clywd Sounds like eq1 with updated graphics. Just what we wanted. Backed!
Exactly.
EQ1 with updated stuff? That is what i wanted EQ 2 and Vanguard to be... now it might finally come true.
Backed.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Generic promises about old-school/hardcore? Check.
Nothing but concept art to show off? Check.
????????
Profit!!!!!
This is perhaps the WORST Kickstarter effort I have ever seen. If it's representative of the effort, work, thought, and planning that will go into the game I'm glad I'm steering clear. The only piece of info I really needed was that Brad McQuaid was involved but apparently if you worked on EQ1 you can be a total douche of a human being and still get money from people.
VG is the hipster of MMO's. It became "cool" to say it was good game in the past couple years because of all the "potential" it had (lol). Prior to that everyone called it a piece of garbage cause that's what it was. Nothing changed and overnight it was suddenly a worthwhile title.
Comments
Brad did just post - "Changing that. Just did a couple of posts on MMORPG.com and will start posting everywhere I can starting today. I won't be able to keep up with everything here, but it's the right call."
http://www.rerolled.org/showthread.php?3460-Pantheon-Rise-of-the-Fallen&p=534519&viewfull=1#post534519
I hope that if you had a question for him, you got an answer.
The backers need to get a bit more motivated to spread the word, so do the devs. They need to do some more advertising on other sites and interviews get the word out and act like they really want to make this game.
The video on the main page was kind of boring and didn't really have much enthusiasm behind it, just a bunch of buzz words like "epic"(damn i hate this over used word). Didn't really pull me in enough to spend anything on the idea of the game yet, but they still have some time. Also the stretch goals are just...uh... I don't even know who put those together but they seem like pipe dreams.
I would like a nice PvE game to go along with a hopefully good PvP game (CU) in a couple years but I don't know if this one will be able to do it the way its turning out so far. Wish them luck though.
107k now! Someone will be making a raid zone!
Hey its not to late for the people who are afraid of playing a game where you actually have to know your class, be on your toes and actually feel like you did something worth wild in the last 10 years in an mmo. Dammit get on board and help out. Give this man a 2nd chance!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/comments
Its a second attempt at making Vanguard, many people would like to see that game in a polished state.
Bit puzzled by the decision to gate off classes based on kick-starter funds, I realise its to get people to donate based on class affiliation, but it just sounds like the game will be pretty crap unless it gets the full funding.
They are going to rework the stretch goals... Also there will probably be funding from other areas if this ks is successful.. They just want the power to be in their hands since a successful ks equals community has spoken...
This^
If the game gets basic funding 800k-999k it will have maybe 4-5 classes and 3-4 races (fighter thief cleric mage/ human elf dwarf orc) That's not the huge wolrd with varied class and races most posters here seem to think patheon will be. The KS will have to do very well and meet several million dollars in stretch goals to get basics like crafting, a ranger class, (ie more then base classes) and more then base races.
I can see Brad getting his 800K+ but backers have to be really hopefully if they think he'll make the several million he'll need to come even close to a vanguard/EQ type game. Basically looks like Brads setting it up to have several kickstarters over the next 4-7 years (he couldn't make his vanguard schedule with a 40 million budget with Microsoft and more from SOE he won't make it in 3 years with a 1 million budget from kickstarter where he has no oversight IMHO)
I remember that VG is in my top 5 mmos of all time list, despite the problems.
I have never heard of a mmo being released and people not losing jobs, you may not of liked the way it happend, but it is not unique to VG.
They have options after the Kickstarter, they can do another kickstarter later, get investments or pair with someone to get funding...They would rather kickstarter it they said, but they have to show people are interested, despite the bad feelings many have for Brad, from VG.
I don't think I saw any claims that this kickstarter was going to make the game, they even said depending on how it goes, it would guide them on what they need to do to get enough funding.
1. A lot of people do not trust Brad.
2. People do not want to give money for something that will not even poke it's head for a beta for 3 years.
3. People do not even want to pay money to play mmos anymore, period.
So no, backers on kickstarter for a non IP project 'x', do not have much to say about the interest in a specific subset of mmos.
The game will not even have crafting unless they can raise 2.5 million. For the game to have all the basic initial features I personally want in an MMORPG they have to raise at least 3.8 million US dollars. To get to what I call an awesome gaming experience they have to raise 6.8 million dollars in thirty eight days. Can they do this?
I tell you what man. I will gladly fork over forty five bucks if they can come near to 3.8 million as at that point it becomes a worthwhile investment toward a game I might enjoy. I might well double that with change to a hundred dollars if they approach 6.8 million. Otherwise I am keeping my money and they can err... (considers various turns of language) bake blueberry muffins.
To get my money you need to have something worthwhile to show and enough investment to reach worthy game play goals and I am willing to pay.
I have to disagree with you. First off nearly every Kickstarter is for a specific non-IP project, at most you might see a spiritual successor to a popular IP, but for the most part nearly every Kickstarter is going to be unique project because that's the nature of things that get Kickstarted. Popular IPs go through publishers.
As far as Kickstarter being a valid metric, name a better metric we can go by at this time. These forums? Probably not. There are a lot of people of specific niche crowds here. It's one of the best metrics we can get at this time. Remember that having a small sampling of available data (like Kickstarter versus the entire population) may be enough data to draw conclusions on as far as statistics go.
As for your generalizations:
1. There is certainly some distrust for him for those who know the rumors, but I'm willing to bet the majority of people don't know. Yes, Brad worked on Vanguard and it was a disaster, but mainly because of bugs and technical issues and not game design. Many people regard the game design as good, and for the most part Brad is in the designer role not the programmer/technical aspect. I'd bet money that the number of people who may be interested in the concept of the Kickstarter and didn't back it because of distrust of Brad would be less than 5% and probably even less than 1%.
2. Many successful Kickstarters have 2-3 year+ date estimates and they still get funded. Pathfinder is (was?) over 2 years I think and it reached it's funding goal for example.
3. That's just completely untrue, especially the type of people who are the target audience of this Kickstarter. We are talking adults who are likely middle aged (30s+) and played old school PvE focused MMOs extensively like EQ, Vanguard, FFXI...
Well, a lot of gamers these day seem to eat crap burgers and then spend their days complaining on forums how there's nothing good to eat.
I don't mind going out on a limb to be in on he ground-floor of something I can maybe help be good. Of course, it's easier and maybe more fun for people to just spend years naysaying every game. I'm personally getting bored going back to forums a month after every new game launches and feeds us the same crap.
So, at least they're trying to provide something different. If it turns out to be a failed project, maybe it will at least perk some ears in the industry that there is interest in something other than the same shallow, solo-quest-grind crap we've been force fed for years.
Either way, whether the project fails in the end or not, I'm willing to put some cash in a direct I think is better than what we're currently stuck with.
According to a Facebook quiz, I'm a genius.
I. I followed Vanguard from before Sigil was even named Sigil. That game failed because Brad can't manage his way out of a wet paper bag. I will never give money to any project he is spearheading again, no matter how much I want to see a true, oldschool game.
It's unfortunate that Brad is the only person trying to really make a true, oldschool game because his failures are likely to be taken as a lack of viability. When in face it's simply that Brad is a management failure. Perhaps he once had design skills. Perhaps he still does. But even his kickstarter writeup is all about pie in the sky dreams that we've seen before, without any solid indication of how he's learned from his past failures and will improve/fix them. I wouldn't back this project even if it didn't have Brad's name - because the kickstarter page does not display any level of ability to actually design a game.
By actually design a game, I mean create and stick to schedules. The actual work rather than the dreaming. Everyone can dream. But when it comes to backing a kickstarter, I need to considerably more than dreaming before I'll part with my money.
And no crafting without 2.5 million? Seriously? I'm not interested in funding half a game, with desirable features held hostage in stretch goals.
Vanguard is still an awesome game, and the game I play the most often, the game I keep going back to.
If you're hesitant about backing because of Vanguard, give him a chance and read these two posts-
"I'm not disagreeing on the CEO thing, which is in progress. And pardon me if this sounds defensive, but I was Project Manager on EQ 1 and that game shipped on-time and in pretty good shape (there we connectivity issues and we didn't have enough bandwidth going into San Diego at launch, but we fixed that right away). I did make mistakes on VG, but there were also other factors involved (regime change at MSFT, SOE not being able to fund us the extra 6 months we needed, etc.)[source]the chief creative officer, they're looking for someone to direct operations. "
http://www.rerolled.org/showthread.php?3460-Pantheon-Rise-of-the-Fallen&p=514967&viewfull=1#post514967
http://www.rerolled.org/showthread.php?3460-Pantheon-Rise-of-the-Fallen&p=532892&viewfull=1#post532892
Anyways, I have faith in Ceythos. I think he did great working on Vanguard. I think Brad put together a great team, and I don't think these guys would be working for him unless they knew they could deliver.
1. Those that don't know, if they read about any single thread mentioning this or him, it is brought up, so they will know, and I do not know the truth 100%, but that doesn't stop those that don't either from maybe overstating anything that happened. So I stand by what I said.
2. Pathfinder is a IP that is popular, and it is being done by the people that make their books, so it was not the best example. I read comments all the time in here about people not wanting to give money, even if they get the game for something so far away, so I stand by what I said. I could link them, but really they are not hard to find everywhere people bring kickstarter up. People even characterize kickstarter as a bunch of rich people wanting their money, instead of using theirs, or schemers and cheats... When I say people, I do not mean everyone, but you have a good amount that fall into these catagories.
3. I stand by what I said, a lot of people do not want to pay period, no matter what game they want to play. I am not saying their are not enough people that will pay, just a lot do not.
4. They are just starting, and have some video with placeholder graphics, and they haven't done a stellar job of doing their tiers and presenting things. This also bring up another subset that are willing to give money to kickstarter, that if you do not have a good video and 'x' amount of progress, they will not give you the time of day.
All these things add up to cut off people/audiences that may play a mmo if it is released, but not give money.
Hey, I am not tearing it down, and I loved EQ/VG, and I may be giving money to this (it would be my first kickstarter I have, if I do), but I reject that it is the guage of interest in a sub-set of mmos.
I think that is a little overboard, you do get a free copy of the game for $50 ($45 tier, but it is limited, can't remember the $55 unlimited one), and a alpha invite, think a free month, but a free year or two would kill their revenue stream imo. It would suck if they actually pull it off, and then it flounders because almost everyone has a free ride.
I could see maybe $100, giving a year, they have not said what they are going to do about subs, or f2p etc....But I would think it would be subs, and if they do $9.99 or something, that would be a nice discount. The $250 is lifetime $1 yearly subs.
He has answered -
Q: brad, have you guys thought about the subscription model? f2p, monthly sub, or a bit of both?
<div bbcodequote"="">
He hasn't said if there will be micro-transactions as far as I know, but I would guess that it's not, considering he's trying to cater to the 'old school MMO' crowd.I suspect the smaller budget will help the leadership execute more efficiently (vs Vanguard larger budget). I think Richard Branson once said "small business is beautiful", and so I hope Pantheon will match that expectation.
I plan to support this one just because I loved EQ.
-WL
Werewolf Online(R) - Lead Developer
Exactly.
EQ1 with updated stuff? That is what i wanted EQ 2 and Vanguard to be... now it might finally come true.
Backed.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Brad McQuaid? Check.
Generic promises about old-school/hardcore? Check.
Nothing but concept art to show off? Check.
????????
Profit!!!!!
This is perhaps the WORST Kickstarter effort I have ever seen. If it's representative of the effort, work, thought, and planning that will go into the game I'm glad I'm steering clear. The only piece of info I really needed was that Brad McQuaid was involved but apparently if you worked on EQ1 you can be a total douche of a human being and still get money from people.
VG is the hipster of MMO's. It became "cool" to say it was good game in the past couple years because of all the "potential" it had (lol). Prior to that everyone called it a piece of garbage cause that's what it was. Nothing changed and overnight it was suddenly a worthwhile title.
Steam: Neph