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Story based PvE and hardcore PvP
Lord.Bachus
Member RarePosts: 9,686
I keep asking me this question?
do they really match eachother so well?
i guess most peoples that love to follow the stories and lore of elder scrolls
are totally different people then those that want to fight their heart out in AvA large scale PvP
I dont think this will be a wise combination in the end, as both groups have very different needs and there is so much in common in both these games that those general parts cant sattisfie both...
if this game is going to fail, i know why... Personally i will stick to the PvE part..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
I for one am a Elder scrolls fan, but I'm also Hardcore pvp. I see no problems with it being in ESO.
as long as it doesn't get old fast.
I for one want to be one of the first Vampires in pvp!! >=D
There is nothing hardcore about this style of PvP. Hardcore PvP is PvP to PvP. This is carebear PvP for some kind of reward while being led by a carrot on stick held by developers.
As for the story PvE, yes it has a story and it has PvE, but the story is generic and the PvE brings nothing we haven't seen 100x already. Its a game trying to satisfy everyone (including SRPG TES fans) by trying to do everything while doing none of it great. Reminds me of Windows 8.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
The pve only crowd is why games fail. You want separate in one box continue to play GW2.
Anyways what I've noticed is that even though I hated the questing and only wanted to AvA, there's a lot of people who absolute loved the questing and other pve aspects.
Thank goodness there are NO other games on the market that skipped the development phase of blending all types of gameplay. No PvP gear in ESO btw.
Yes, they do match pretty wel, after hearing Nick talk about how massive the PVE is and how it will take insane amounts of hours to go through ADVENTURE ZONES, I think its fair to also have PVP in the game which is the REAL SIZE of Oblivion for Cyridiil for PVP.
I suspect they will make a future PVE Cyrodiil but that would be an expansion. Who knows, they might finish the rest of the world for PVP also someday.
That may be true but it also applies to the pvp, it doesnt add anything new either.
Thats the effect of "realm pride"... I dont see the problem with that.
Maybe I should have quoted the original poster before I wrote that.
He was saying that PvE people will not want to PvP because it's so hardcore. I think that AvA style PvP is not hardcore at all and should therefor not be an issue for a typical PvEer - even if they tend to not like PvP very much in general.
am I missed something ? ESO is hard core PvP mmo?
if it true can someone explain, maybe is there hope for my interesting back for ESO.
No arguement there, thats why I think its better to give pve'er and pvp'ers their own servers with their own rule sets. I understand the sentiment against it and the problems but given the alternatives.. IMO its the best option. Unfortunately there is no golden middle ground, although pvp'ers are more likely to stick with a pve based game, then pve players with a pvp based game.
I dont think its really a "too hardcore" issue either, probebly more a convenience issue. And ofcourse a matter of taste, to pick an excample some people like Mc Donalds, some people dont, thats not a hardcore issue, its just not their cup of tea. You could argue its comparing apples to oranges but unfortunately I can pick any RL subject, its the very same principle.
The debate team! No thats not hardcore, football, now THAT is hardcore. Or Football, thats not hardcore thats just people running aimlessly after some pigskin, a heated debate, now THAT is hard core.
Back to pvp and pve, PVPs say that pve is repedative, predicteble and pve'ers just cant handle it, pve'ers say the same thing about their aspect(s) of the game about pvp'ers.
Pride is something you develop for a thing, its not created for you.
I took pride in being an Imperial in SWG, even took part in military parades in towns with other imperials.
Pride is walking into your enemies territories and holding it because you want to, not because its the only way you can fight them because that's the way it was designed.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')
Where is the problem? People only interested in RvR will rush to level 10 and then will live in Cyrodiil forever, people interested in PvE will explore all the world doing all the quests, people interested in "quake-style" PvP (killing everyone everywhere) will go to play CoD or BF4 :P
Cyrodiil pvp is not a completely different game at all. The pve is the story of my character growing stronger and gearing up to go and WIN the WAR in Cyrodiil.
I think ZOS understands the mmo synergy between pvp and pve.
New definition of hardcore pvp: anything beyond friendly duels.
But who cares, ESO is an amusement park style mmo and pvp is just one of the rides. Same shit, new graphics.
LOL!!!!! Being able to loot a player is considered hardcore PvP.... I never laughed so hard.
I think the OP probably meant that there is a big PvP focus in the design of the game, not that the actual PvP mechanics are "hardcore." At least I hope so, because they are far from hardcore. Which is a good thing in the context of the model they are aiming for.
To the OP: I see no problem. Lots of people enjoy both story-driven narratives and dynamic warfare. In the context of TESO, they go hand in hand. The AvA conflict fits right into the lore of the time period, and story-driven PvE is going to obviously take that same lore into account. With Emperor status conveying bonuses to PvEers and dominance in Cyrodiil translating into increased access to that province's PvE content, the two elements seem to be nicely intertwined.
I actually think the perceived dissonance you are worried about is going to be one of the greatest strengths of TESO.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
True that it is funny, but at least its part of the equation even if its a small part. Still not nearly as funny as those that call instanced only group based developer forced situations "hardcore".
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Well, it can be "same shit" for you (and for you only) but hey, it seems that players today want this kind of gameplay.
Sandbox? Look at Darkfall. Failed quake arena. Full loot? It's old and useless? Forced PvP everywhere? BF4 and Planetside2 are there to be played.
MMO are all about a character, in a world, with some mechanics to prevent griefind, stupid playing styles and having fun following stories and adventures, not killing people 24h/24
Could not have said it better myself :-). Had they not gone this route, there would have been an uproar similar to what happened with Lord of the Rings Online who released Monster Play. The fact that they are taking PVP equally serious without it affecting those who only want PVE to me is a good thing. The more options the better. Now lets talk about chat bubbles again for 40 pages of forum space lol.
There Is Always Hope!
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/8138/page/1
Or, it seems they do not.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Your body may not be doing anything hardcore, but your mind certainly is.
I think MMO's should be trying to bring these two elements together again, combining the two types of players.
Back in the days of old, there were no PvE MMOers, or PvP MMOers... you did both because they were both necessary, and there were no other games on the market catering to one or the other.
If you truly support the lore, you support your culture. If you support your culture, you support your realm. If you support your realm, you want to fight for her.
One a side note, I used to get so ticked off on RP servers in WoW when folks would RP being heroic, or what have you, at the local inn in Goldshire. Meanwhile, the Horde would be slaughtering NPCs a few yards away. True RP and true RPG, for that matter, is about playing a believable role in an mmo where the real world is not brought up in any way shape or form, and you see solely through the eyes of the character you are playing. You would fight!!! for your realm if you were anything even close to heroic.
The issue at hand with ESO - barring the crappy combat/UI and copy paste class archetypes - is that despite even all that clutter, we finally have a title that still manages to break the mold.
Folks have been "educated" into a belief in the mmo "rpg" industry, that defines pvp as a place of competition where certain tasks must be accomplished in order to achieve a victory. That part of the definition is pretty broad. The problem is that the genre has taken this definition to solely mean that pvp is an immediate gratification experience that is usually in an instanced bubble where the outcome does not at all relate to anyone outside of said bubble.
In other words, pvp is meaningless entertainment in most titles. Pvp has turned into a quasi football game or general sporting event where plays and appearance are mostly the same between competitors. That might work well for world sports or particularly well for American football, but imagine if JRR Tolkien had the same limited imagination. The Hobbit v Hobbit pvp scenario would have killed the epic feel of truly the greatest story ever told. Thankfully, for the Tolkien family, Peter Jackson, myself, and Newline Cinema, the writers of Age of Conan, Guildwars, Rift, SW:ToR, and so forth, did NOT write the Lord of the Rings.
TESO offers something more than the common what everyone has so far experienced "lightweight" variation on the definition of pvp above.
Teso states that pvp is meant to achieve something for the entire realm. It states that developers don't have to program the title to allow for a handful of races and classes to just form different gangs (okay, you call them guilds but what are they really?) of the same kinds of folk and put them in somewhat silly E-sport events. And that's just a start. Read what they have to say, and understand from there.