Hmmm. Back in the day, there was the idea that MMORPGs could become virtual worlds in time. People dreamed of it. That promise never materialized with MMORPGs. But then, it never materialized anywhere else. I remember there being a big hullabulloo about VRML and how people were going to create virtual worlds there too, but it never happened.
I think the decline in MMORPGs can be linked to the decline in the widespread commercial viability of virtual worlds. There's widespread commercial viability in games, but not worlds. Figure out how to make worlds something you can make money off of, whether or not they are in games, and you'll see a resurgence in MMORPGs as worlds.
The worlds are truly the problem with almost every single MMO today...Instead of making a great world, MMOs focus on entertaining us and making things as easy as possible.....Alot of us used to enjoy escaping to a virtual world, but I havent really seen a game offer that in years.....Now its instance crazy world with short term gameplay and tons of hand holding......Many of us that started with older MMOs saw this decline start with WoW and it has only grown steeper as time has gone on.
Hmmm. Back in the day, there was the idea that MMORPGs could become virtual worlds in time. People dreamed of it. That promise never materialized with MMORPGs. But then, it never materialized anywhere else. I remember there being a big hullabulloo about VRML and how people were going to create virtual worlds there too, but it never happened.
I think the decline in MMORPGs can be linked to the decline in the widespread commercial viability of virtual worlds. There's widespread commercial viability in games, but not worlds. Figure out how to make worlds something you can make money off of, whether or not they are in games, and you'll see a resurgence in MMORPGs as worlds.
The worlds are truly the problem with almost every single MMO today...Instead of making a great world, MMOs focus on entertaining us and making things as easy as possible.....Alot of us used to enjoy escaping to a virtual world, but I havent really seen a game offer that in years.....Now its instance crazy world with short term gameplay and tons of hand holding......Many of us that started with older MMOs saw this decline start with WoW and it has only grown steeper as time has gone on.
I don't think it's enough that virtual worlds be as good as old virtual worlds, a virtual world made now, if it's going to be compared to those older ones would have to be better. Bigger, better AI, more variety in mobs, more coherence in mob lives, and so on. Ryzom took extra steps to make their world more world like, and it turned out great, but their game play didn't attract players. I think this lesson played out in other places too. Developers have been taught by players that the game is more important, and that's what players will pay for over the virtual world.
I think unless the solution includes "make the virtual world easier to develop" or "make the virtual world something players are willing to pay more money for", we're not getting virtual worlds.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Is no decline. But people here need to post thread and need to feel important.
Still....no decline. Any more than there is a decline in PC games that has been reported since Diablo2
I don't think the OP is talking about the decline in terms of sales numbers. I think they mean decline in quality releases. If we are talking about sales numbers online games and MMOs are seeing growth.
Concerning PC games, the way they usually break down sales figures now a day, they break out online games separately from PC games. Using those numbers(offline PC games only) then it does actually appear that PC games are in decline compared to 2008, albeit only slightly. The thing is when people talk about the PC we are also talking about online, so those numbers aren't really relevant, but that is probably where the confusion comes from.
Originally posted by Maquiame Brad "Everquest" McQuaid's new mmoRPG, I certainly hope you and your girl are investing friend!
I am getting so sick of this reply. IF it ever launches, I may give it a try. What is put down on paper hardly ever gets to production without changes.I hear that they are selling flying cars, too. They may even be a reality before you're dead.
I'd rather invest in something by someone who made two games I liked instead of sit here and complain. Play games not forums
I DO play games, just NOT recent MMOs. I have no "need" to play them just because.
Give me an MMORPG that I enjoy, and I will gladly stop complaining. Until then, you're stuck with me
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I think whether or not gloom and doom are near does not really matter.
What should be focused more on is what gamers really want in the present and near future from their devs,community and over all gaming experience.
I personally would like to see NPCs die a painful death. I would like to see devs find a way to have call center style firms filled with people working to interact with players during the game. Each one having a specific role but with the ability to alter it abit. Instead of seeing multiple choice questions and answers we could type a question and get an answer. Maybe this could be intuitive AI or a real person. Either way the experience would be different.
I used to enjoy static NPC characters but now it is getting boring.
I would like to have the option to level up, max out and then become an in game NPC.
Maybe there could be some salary involved with that. Maybe there is a quest that requires you to get an item or have a conversation with an NPC. They need to be online at the same time as you.
That would require time management and the ability to sync with others which is not currently required for completing most quests.
Put your money where your mouths are. And realize that this isn't about giving Brad money, its about making enough noise so that other companies can realize that we are a viable fanbase to make in depth mmo RPG's for.
Otherwise you are just spitting hot wind and do not complain when we are still getting these fast food, soon to be console primary mmos.
I honestly hope many of you take the time to look at the big picture of what that kickstarter represents.
The thing is, they won't. They will complain and complain, but won't. I've seen a few new games with classic mmo features that are in development or released, people rant an rave about it, saying "it does it right", then about a month later the game is forgotten about.
Also, (which is connected to your point) is that they will find a reason not to play or get themselves involved with a game, they will will like 99% of what they heard, but won't play due to the 1%. Fair enough if it's a big factor, but from stuff I've read on here it tends to be something very trivial.
At the end of the day I have no sympathy for those who are bored, there's shit out there, if you're not willing to get involved, support or contribute for better mmos, then it's your own god damn fault to be brutally honest xD.
I just think we are in a temporary lull. Someone will come along and make a really great MMO and then everyone will get on the bandwagon again and try to emulate it.
Originally posted by Ozmodan I just think we are in a temporary lull. Someone will come along and make a really great MMO and then everyone will get on the bandwagon again and try to emulate it.
For years foolish dev houses have been trying to emulate WOW to steal their audiance. Wildstar finally succeeded in producing a high quality mmo that took the WOW design forward, but ofc as we all know WOW players don't want to move on, they are not going to abandon that achievement record. Finally dev houses have realised that the multi million player mmorpg is not going to happen, hence the lull. Eventually new niche products will be developed targeting 500k or so players to match the real market size, but its going to be a rare development, maybe one every year on average as it should be for a niche since thats what the market can take considering mmorpg players want a long term home.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Ozmodan I just think we are in a temporary lull. Someone will come along and make a really great MMO and then everyone will get on the bandwagon again and try to emulate it.
For years foolish dev houses have been trying to emulate WOW to steal their audiance. Wildstar finally succeeded in producing a high quality mmo that took the WOW design forward, but ofc as we all know WOW players don't want to move on, they are not going to abandon that achievement record. Finally dev houses have realised that the multi million player mmorpg is not going to happen, hence the lull. Eventually new niche products will be developed targeting 500k or so players to match the real market size, but its going to be a rare development, maybe one every year on average as it should be for a niche since thats what the market can take considering mmorpg players want a long term home.
Comments
The worlds are truly the problem with almost every single MMO today...Instead of making a great world, MMOs focus on entertaining us and making things as easy as possible.....Alot of us used to enjoy escaping to a virtual world, but I havent really seen a game offer that in years.....Now its instance crazy world with short term gameplay and tons of hand holding......Many of us that started with older MMOs saw this decline start with WoW and it has only grown steeper as time has gone on.
I don't think it's enough that virtual worlds be as good as old virtual worlds, a virtual world made now, if it's going to be compared to those older ones would have to be better. Bigger, better AI, more variety in mobs, more coherence in mob lives, and so on. Ryzom took extra steps to make their world more world like, and it turned out great, but their game play didn't attract players. I think this lesson played out in other places too. Developers have been taught by players that the game is more important, and that's what players will pay for over the virtual world.
I think unless the solution includes "make the virtual world easier to develop" or "make the virtual world something players are willing to pay more money for", we're not getting virtual worlds.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Is no decline. But people here need to post thread and need to feel important.
Still....no decline. Any more than there is a decline in PC games that has been reported since Diablo2
I don't think the OP is talking about the decline in terms of sales numbers. I think they mean decline in quality releases. If we are talking about sales numbers online games and MMOs are seeing growth.
Concerning PC games, the way they usually break down sales figures now a day, they break out online games separately from PC games. Using those numbers(offline PC games only) then it does actually appear that PC games are in decline compared to 2008, albeit only slightly. The thing is when people talk about the PC we are also talking about online, so those numbers aren't really relevant, but that is probably where the confusion comes from.
Give me an MMORPG that I enjoy, and I will gladly stop complaining. Until then, you're stuck with me
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I think whether or not gloom and doom are near does not really matter.
What should be focused more on is what gamers really want in the present and near future from their devs,community and over all gaming experience.
I personally would like to see NPCs die a painful death. I would like to see devs find a way to have call center style firms filled with people working to interact with players during the game. Each one having a specific role but with the ability to alter it abit. Instead of seeing multiple choice questions and answers we could type a question and get an answer. Maybe this could be intuitive AI or a real person. Either way the experience would be different.
I used to enjoy static NPC characters but now it is getting boring.
I would like to have the option to level up, max out and then become an in game NPC.
Maybe there could be some salary involved with that. Maybe there is a quest that requires you to get an item or have a conversation with an NPC. They need to be online at the same time as you.
That would require time management and the ability to sync with others which is not currently required for completing most quests.
What do you think about this ?
The thing is, they won't. They will complain and complain, but won't. I've seen a few new games with classic mmo features that are in development or released, people rant an rave about it, saying "it does it right", then about a month later the game is forgotten about.
Also, (which is connected to your point) is that they will find a reason not to play or get themselves involved with a game, they will will like 99% of what they heard, but won't play due to the 1%. Fair enough if it's a big factor, but from stuff I've read on here it tends to be something very trivial.
At the end of the day I have no sympathy for those who are bored, there's shit out there, if you're not willing to get involved, support or contribute for better mmos, then it's your own god damn fault to be brutally honest xD.
For years foolish dev houses have been trying to emulate WOW to steal their audiance. Wildstar finally succeeded in producing a high quality mmo that took the WOW design forward, but ofc as we all know WOW players don't want to move on, they are not going to abandon that achievement record. Finally dev houses have realised that the multi million player mmorpg is not going to happen, hence the lull. Eventually new niche products will be developed targeting 500k or so players to match the real market size, but its going to be a rare development, maybe one every year on average as it should be for a niche since thats what the market can take considering mmorpg players want a long term home.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
lol what? in what way exactly?
I had fun once, it was terrible.