[quote]Originally posted by moonfog That might be 75k registered users (like WoW with its 5million), but I am looking at actual active players. And Eve had a record of 19.486 as its BEST. lol, its a small small communily in a huge universe.[/b][/quote]
100k accounts, 86k subs, or at least, afaik.
And for someone who wants to see links and proof you're quite good at providing numbers without actually knowing what they mean.
I suggest you take a look at where that 19.486 number comes from.
I'll help you: That's people online at the same time. In WoW terms, that's 7-8 full servers. While EVE remains small, i don't think that's so bad for an independant company providing a niche mmo.....
Originally posted by Gameloading and here people forget the REASON why to Pvp. the reason to play pvp is competition. so, in my oppinion, the game that would get close to the number 1 pvp game would be the game that has pvp combat that requirest the most skill, so EVE will be all the way on the bottem since its still who has the most ubar ship. and the numbers one would be shared place between Guild wars, and, believe it or not, World of warcraft.World of warcraft brings PvP to a next level. you can clearly see those that "know how to play" and those that don't. tough levels are still important, its very normal for a lvl 60 to lose to a lvl 52. this is all because of the moving combat. it has never been more important, with the exception on Guild Wars, Which skill to use, where to use it, when to use it and how to use it.many people fail to see this because a lot of people think pvp should be about losing exp, taking all items, destroying the opponents character. call me a carebear, but for me pvp means competition, not about getting or losing items or exp, so for me World of Warcraft and Guild wars are on top of the list because they require, unlike games like EVE, skill to play in PVP.
EVE has an entirely different reason for PvP...... Competition, yes, but for resources. It's best compared to RL, where nations vie for natural resources and make war over them - THAT's where EVE pvp comes from, not just to be called the 'best', if that's even possible.
In EVE, there's only 1 server. Not a couple of thousand realms where it doesn't matter what you do, you will still bathe in anonimity becuase thousands of other people are doing exactly the same as you do.
In wow for example, the entire backstory hints that there will be a manufactured war between the alliance and the horde. Multiple dozens of quests hint to solutions of who might be responsible and what to do to keep this war from happening - yet blizzard throws those questlines away by forcing pvp and not allowing horde and alliance to even talk to each other, even preventing learning each others language.
WoW PVP is the most flawed system there currently is. 3 months before WoW's release, they decided to put in pvp. 3 months. As a sidethought. All wow's pvp is is an honor grind.... If i want gameplay like in Arathi Basin, i go play battlefield, that's the ultimate game in that kind of game. If i want CTF, i go play Unreal Tournament, no Warson Gulch, where shapeshifters still haven't got their movement nerfed. Not to mention Alterac Valley..... And last but not least, how in god's name can you win if you can't lose? You never lose anything, you only gain. And there's the biggest problem with wow.
No, wow pvp cannot be called 'the ultimate'. Not if the signs against it are slapping everyone in the face contantly.
I have played both games since release. You obviously haven't. Ships in eve aren't that big of a factor.... Tactics, strategy, planning and setup are more important than the ship. I've even beaten some battleships in my cruiser, solo..... But you can pretty much never win from a lvl 60 with a lvl 52. 3 to 5 levels difference are already too much for an equal combat in wow. That's why they made battlegrounds go from 50 to 59 instead of 51 to 60 - 60 even has an entirely different powerclass alltogether, since the equipment keeps gaining levels (you can keep finding more powerful equipment), but you remain the same. I expect, for that matter, a massive rebalance of lvl 60+ items when the Burning Crusade hits... Otherwise the power jump from 59 to 60 would be far too great.
Anyway, i digress.
I just hate it when peoplego about explaining how the universe works if they haven't even been out of their own home since birth.
Originally posted by Sarmaul Any particular reason why EVE-Online isn't up for the PVP award, dispite it having quite possibly the best PVP implemtation in an MMORPG at this time? Combat plays a VERY big part in this game, and unlike some (most) other MMORPGs it's combat with consequences - no respawning with all your items and gold rubbish.Sort it out!!!
That's your opinion that, as you put it "quite possibly the best pvp implimentation". Readers choice is about the majority. As such you can probably tell from the forums. Most of the people here except die hard Eve-Online fans (i.e You). Don't agree with your assestment that Eve-Online PvP is good. Hence why it didn't get enough votes to make the list, and probably never will.
You also seem to be under the impression. That how big a part of the game 'PvP' makes up would have any sway on it. For that matter you also seem to think PvP Mechanics (i.e losing your ship and skills) would also have sway. How big an effect 'PvP' has on the game as a whole has little do with. How good the 'PvP' is, nor does a simple 'PvP' mechanic like lost of materials.
'PvP' is about more then that. I think you are probably missing what the real point of 'PvP'. As it seems Eve-Online just doesn't do it for people... and you can't understand why.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
[quote]Originally posted by Roin [/b] That's your opinion that, as you put it "quite possibly the best pvp implimentation". Readers choice is about the majority. As such you can probably tell from the forums. Most of the people here except die hard Eve-Online fans (i.e You). Don't agree with your assestment that Eve-Online PvP is good. Hence why it didn't get enough votes to make the list, and probably never will. [/b][/quote]
you are way off target. that list doesnt have anything to do with readers choices. it is just a one person favorites, in this case the lead designer (i think) of this site. it is not based on any readers choices or votes.
that is why so many people are complaining about some games being left out.
Originally posted by SpiritofGame EVE? Please. You can mine in high sec space or get Stargate-ganked by the four or five camping pirates in low sec. Boring.
You sir, are a retard. Get into a 0.0 alliance and you'll begin to understand what combat in EVE is all about.
Originally posted by ChromeBallz WoW PVP is the most flawed system there currently is. 3 months before WoW's release, they decided to put in pvp. 3 months. As a sidethought. All wow's pvp is is an honor grind.... If i want gameplay like in Arathi Basin, i go play battlefield, that's the ultimate game in that kind of game. If i want CTF, i go play Unreal Tournament, no Warson Gulch, where shapeshifters still haven't got their movement nerfed. Not to mention Alterac Valley..... And last but not least, how in god's name can you win if you can't lose? You never lose anything, you only gain. And there's the biggest problem with wow.No, wow pvp cannot be called 'the ultimate'. Not if the signs against it are slapping everyone in the face contantly.
A distinction must be made between WoW's actual "PvP System" (which is, as you mentioned, pathetic), and the actual state of the PvP itself (Quite good). The classes are relatively well balanced (until the application of tier 2-3 epics), and the combat is rather quick paced and fun. There are exceptions of course, Paladin: Immunity Bubble/Hearth, Hunter: Feign Death/Frost Trap, Druid/Shaman: Travel Form, Run, but for the most part these "cheap tactics" are avoidable, and don't happen on a large scale.
I can honestly admit to you that when I first started PvPing in WoW my hands used to shake before going into a fight not knowing if I could win, and my heart raced when a rogue attacked me unexpectedly. But if I won, the satisfaction was immense. (That said, if I lost, it wasn't a big deal because I never lost anything... which is stupid IMO )
It can be appreciated that while some classes have match-ups that are very difficult to win; a good player behind the controls (that is knowing what to do and when to do it) can defeat nearly any class with any other (1v1), and a well co-ordinated team can defeat a much larger group of uncoordinated players.
Now, WoW's honor system is terrible, the quoted post is exactly right, "You never lose anything." That is, indeed, the root of the problem. Perhaps one day Blizzard will come to recognize this but until they do we can be happy that the balance of the system is still relatively intact and still fun to take part in.
Comments
[quote]Originally posted by moonfog
That might be 75k registered users (like WoW with its 5million), but I am looking at actual active players. And Eve had a record of 19.486 as its BEST. lol, its a small small communily in a huge universe.[/b][/quote]
100k accounts, 86k subs, or at least, afaik.
And for someone who wants to see links and proof you're quite good at providing numbers without actually knowing what they mean.
I suggest you take a look at where that 19.486 number comes from.
I'll help you: That's people online at the same time. In WoW terms, that's 7-8 full servers. While EVE remains small, i don't think that's so bad for an independant company providing a niche mmo.....
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
EVE has an entirely different reason for PvP...... Competition, yes, but for resources. It's best compared to RL, where nations vie for natural resources and make war over them - THAT's where EVE pvp comes from, not just to be called the 'best', if that's even possible.
In EVE, there's only 1 server. Not a couple of thousand realms where it doesn't matter what you do, you will still bathe in anonimity becuase thousands of other people are doing exactly the same as you do.
In wow for example, the entire backstory hints that there will be a manufactured war between the alliance and the horde. Multiple dozens of quests hint to solutions of who might be responsible and what to do to keep this war from happening - yet blizzard throws those questlines away by forcing pvp and not allowing horde and alliance to even talk to each other, even preventing learning each others language.
WoW PVP is the most flawed system there currently is. 3 months before WoW's release, they decided to put in pvp. 3 months. As a sidethought. All wow's pvp is is an honor grind.... If i want gameplay like in Arathi Basin, i go play battlefield, that's the ultimate game in that kind of game. If i want CTF, i go play Unreal Tournament, no Warson Gulch, where shapeshifters still haven't got their movement nerfed. Not to mention Alterac Valley..... And last but not least, how in god's name can you win if you can't lose? You never lose anything, you only gain. And there's the biggest problem with wow.
No, wow pvp cannot be called 'the ultimate'. Not if the signs against it are slapping everyone in the face contantly.
I have played both games since release. You obviously haven't. Ships in eve aren't that big of a factor.... Tactics, strategy, planning and setup are more important than the ship. I've even beaten some battleships in my cruiser, solo..... But you can pretty much never win from a lvl 60 with a lvl 52. 3 to 5 levels difference are already too much for an equal combat in wow. That's why they made battlegrounds go from 50 to 59 instead of 51 to 60 - 60 even has an entirely different powerclass alltogether, since the equipment keeps gaining levels (you can keep finding more powerful equipment), but you remain the same. I expect, for that matter, a massive rebalance of lvl 60+ items when the Burning Crusade hits... Otherwise the power jump from 59 to 60 would be far too great.
Anyway, i digress.
I just hate it when peoplego about explaining how the universe works if they haven't even been out of their own home since birth.
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
That's your opinion that, as you put it "quite possibly the best pvp implimentation". Readers choice is about the majority. As such you can probably tell from the forums. Most of the people here except die hard Eve-Online fans (i.e You). Don't agree with your assestment that Eve-Online PvP is good. Hence why it didn't get enough votes to make the list, and probably never will.
You also seem to be under the impression. That how big a part of the game 'PvP' makes up would have any sway on it. For that matter you also seem to think PvP Mechanics (i.e losing your ship and skills) would also have sway. How big an effect 'PvP' has on the game as a whole has little do with. How good the 'PvP' is, nor does a simple 'PvP' mechanic like lost of materials.
'PvP' is about more then that. I think you are probably missing what the real point of 'PvP'. As it seems Eve-Online just doesn't do it for people... and you can't understand why.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
[quote]Originally posted by Roin
[/b]
That's your opinion that, as you put it "quite possibly the best pvp implimentation". Readers choice is about the majority. As such you can probably tell from the forums. Most of the people here except die hard Eve-Online fans (i.e You). Don't agree with your assestment that Eve-Online PvP is good. Hence why it didn't get enough votes to make the list, and probably never will.
[/b][/quote]
you are way off target. that list doesnt have anything to do with readers choices. it is just a one person favorites, in this case the lead designer (i think) of this site. it is not based on any readers choices or votes.
that is why so many people are complaining about some games being left out.
EVE? Please.
You can mine in high sec space or get Stargate-ganked by the four or five camping pirates in low sec.
Boring.
~ Ancient Membership ~
You sir, are a retard. Get into a 0.0 alliance and you'll begin to understand what combat in EVE is all about.
A distinction must be made between WoW's actual "PvP System" (which is, as you mentioned, pathetic), and the actual state of the PvP itself (Quite good). The classes are relatively well balanced (until the application of tier 2-3 epics), and the combat is rather quick paced and fun. There are exceptions of course, Paladin: Immunity Bubble/Hearth, Hunter: Feign Death/Frost Trap, Druid/Shaman: Travel Form, Run, but for the most part these "cheap tactics" are avoidable, and don't happen on a large scale.
I can honestly admit to you that when I first started PvPing in WoW my hands used to shake before going into a fight not knowing if I could win, and my heart raced when a rogue attacked me unexpectedly. But if I won, the satisfaction was immense. (That said, if I lost, it wasn't a big deal because I never lost anything... which is stupid IMO
)
It can be appreciated that while some classes have match-ups that are very difficult to win; a good player behind the controls (that is knowing what to do and when to do it) can defeat nearly any class with any other (1v1), and a well co-ordinated team can defeat a much larger group of uncoordinated players.
Now, WoW's honor system is terrible, the quoted post is exactly right, "You never lose anything." That is, indeed, the root of the problem. Perhaps one day Blizzard will come to recognize this but until they do we can be happy that the balance of the system is still relatively intact and still fun to take part in.
Cheers,
Gray Shadow