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GM or DM controlled MMORPG?
jive01
Member Posts: 4
Hello Folks,
I've played several mmorg's before such as anarchy online, city of hero's and I'm about to start starwars galaxies..., but I'm looking for one that has more flexability for DM or GM control. For example, the Game Master sets up the entire world (or adventure), such as npc's, dungeons, monsters etc, through a "DM's" control panel or game set up panel. And then the players rollplay and go on the adventure like they would any other mmorpg... So it would have the flexability of the a tabletop game, but the dynamics and visuals of a mmorpg...
Does such a game already exist or am I dreaming??
Comments
It doesn't happen, it's way too much effort for a DM to set up a whle dungeon just for a few people. Just go back and play PnP.
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No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.
Hmmm. That's too bad.
[quote]it's way too much effort for a DM to set up a whle dungeon just for a few people[/quote]
I would think that the effort involved wouldn't be any more or less than a table top GM putting effort into his paper maps and npcs. I think it would depend on how robust such a control panel would be for the GM. (I guess this would be more of a adventure making panel.) A game programmer would need to set up "creation templates" for the GM.
So the effort involved by the GM would depend on the user friendliness and robustness of the template maker....
I think such a thing is very doable, and if done right would take off. It would also encourage real role playing....
p.s
what is pnp?
Neverwinter Nights (though not an MMO) allows for this, but the scripting is an SOB.
Saga of Ryzom will be allowing this after a fashion with their Ryzom Ring addition which is currently in testing.
PnP means Pen and Paper, as in tabletop roleplaying games like D&D.
Postmortem Studios
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That is fantastic. I did some reading on it:
http://vault.ign.com/articles/622/622433p1.html
I think this makes for great potential. It can in theory combine the best of pnp and mmorpg play...
Yup there is the Ryzom Ring, there is also NeverWinter Nights. There is a DM Toolkit that can be used to make your own MODS, but this also means you'll need to run your own server.
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Played: Age of Conan, DDO, Saga of Ryzom, SWG, DaOC, MxO, EQ2, and so on...
Wish List: Jumpgate Evolution, Star Wars: TOR, Star Trek
Yup I'm eagely awaiting the ryzom ring extension for ryzom. It sounds like it could be just what you are looking for
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Kibs
Avatar by Ema
Playing: The Saga of Ryzom since march 2004
Hero's Journey
There will be GM's there all the time that will be adding and changing content, quests, etc... Check out their website for more info as well as the Q&A done resently here on MMORPG.com
Personally, I think that this is just the evolution that MMORPGs would need to really make them shine. I'm all for it. There are, however, a number of issues that come about that make it almost impossible to do in a consistant way.
1. Consider the scale. Let's say that there are only 10,000 people playing one game at one time. One DM or GM type can only possibly or physically be responsible for a VERY small percentage of those people if a GM'd MMORPG were going to fly. Let's be generous, and say that, on average, each Gm could look after 100 people at a time (and that's not likley). It would require 100 GMs to be actively in-game and working.
2. Those 100 GMs... let's give them 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week. OK, so that means that in order to fill content for this 10,000 player game, we need 200 GMs to cover a 24 hour period. This is not taking into account peak and off peak times, but it's also not taking into account the need for a) food b) weekends c) sanity d) life outside of work.
3. Ok, so our 200 GMs who, in order to keep that level of dedication, are going to need to get paid (obviously). So, let's say... a wage of $6.50 an hour. That's gonna bring our total costs for ONE GM to about 26K a year.
4. Crushing numbers... $26K a year... times 200 GMs... is $5,200,000.
5. Ok, so let's set our subscription fee for the game. Let's go to an extreme high end of the market. Let's say it costs $25 a month to play. We already know that we have 10,000 players. So... Our net income for the year is... $3,000,000... Short on even paying our GMs, let alone anyone else.
Sure, my logic may be flawed. Probably is. I'd LOVE to see this somehow happen, but even with volunteers, this is a pretty insane project. Think of the scheduling, and the fact that volunteers (on a large scale like this) can't be counted on to give that much time (nor should they!!!). It'd be a nightmare... Now occasional GM'd events... that's anoter thing. Those are great, and have provided some of the most fun I've had in MMORPGs...
Anyway, I'm finally finished.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
I think the concept is right, BUT I don't think we have the capacity to go all out. Most of the content must be player generated. However, GMs should be at work in the background to keep the world alive.
Creating unique quests, not for a specific player or team, but for those who venture into the unknown and act with bravery and skill. More luck, more achievement, more challenge, stronger recognition for those who accomplish something...
At least, I imagine all this.
The future: Adellion
Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually
Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants)
Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens)
Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
Those are the three words I've heard far too often.
Those are the three words I've heard far too often.
hehehe so true :P
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Kibs
Avatar by Ema
Playing: The Saga of Ryzom since march 2004
Ah yes, a 100% controlled GM place. a dream came true! or is it?
Beside the economically impossibility already eloquently displayed by a previous poster (kudos for a well written post, by the way), there are other considerations to be taken care of.
Pen and paper is usually made by a GM and a variable number of players that are FRIEND between them. Here we would have a bunch of strangers being lead trough some adventure by a PAID EMPLOYEE.
Consider this: 1) Ideas and adventures. How long does it take to the average GM to create an adventure? I can get the general plot outline in a few minutes, but to completely flesh it out? it takes days. And this poor guys are gonna do it for 8 hours as work? how long they are gonna last until they are completely arid? Not long. Ok, so let's say they are not really making adventures out of thin air, they have pre-made modules and they run those. Ah HA! but so is not so "free form". the modules are numbered and eventually they run out as we all know players go trough content like locusts trough grain fields.
2) Fairness. Already in the PnP world, in conventions where a semi-competitive air reigns, there is plenty of whining about unfair GMs. It is known fact that GMs, being amateur human beings, tends to develop sympaties and to have a certain style that can suit certain persons more than others. It is just whining when the GM is an amateur and you also.... now think he is a paid employee giving you a service and you are paying them.... a customer support nightmare over and beyond the actual level present in Mmorpg. "But Johhny got the blue staff of power last night! Why i don't get it??"
3) lack of personnel. A GM is not anybody. There are plenty more PnP players than GMs as not everybody has the will or the capacity to churn out adventures, cheesy or not, like the last Hollywood film script writer. And for this you don't want just mr Average GM, nope, you need professionals and you need an army of them. Now, while getting an army of IT support personnel is entirely possibly, a Army of creative, professional writer AND customer support is a bit harder. Even in the module scenario, these guys must be able to run the module in a certain way, act convincingly and so on.... so getting a quite higher pay then your average computer monkey (that are not paid in bananas either, by the way).
With this points (plus the point 0: economically unfeasible), is no surprise the best we saw is a dedicated Event team of a dozen people doing one event here and there at random involving a tiny percent of the player base.
How to solve the problem? ah well, to COMPLETELY solve it i have three joke solutions:
1) Hire the whole army of the Gold Farmers. they already get paid nothing AND are annoying to the other players, you get two rabbits with one rock!
2) Illegally produce couple millions clones of Gary Gygax or your preferred RPG author.
3) Program a few hundreds of self-conscious, artistically active, AI. They should handle the problem in-between their tries to conquer the world/wipe out the human race.
Now, what i think is feasible at this point is: Beside the before mentioned Event teams, a improvement in general AI and interactivness of characters and monsters and implementation of a hybrid system using dynamic instancing and normal world to give the illusion of progression.
Mythica was doing it and LoTRO also (their best feature, bar none). If done right, it would means that certain areas of the world would react to the presence of the player and "transport" the player (and all his party) in a personal and dynamic instance where his past deeds are recorded and displayed.
Not a perfect solution, of course (theoretically, by changing party leader, you could enter in a village finding it prospering and with the guy's statues all over and then re-entering it and finding it razed to the ground and with horrible mutants creature living in the few burned rubbles remaining) but much more probable to happens.
Have a nice day, Volk signing out
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
You are dreaming. You are essentially asking for players to have their own personal GM, who would have to be the game company's employee. The cost would be astronomical; subscriptions would be hundreds of dollars a month at least.
Chris Mattern
i think this is quite possible, you all talk about the costs of GM's and how unreasonable this would be. What if we had the players create there OWN adventures? Implement a system similar to Warcraft III and battle.net, WC3 comes with a map maker program which you can use to create your own maps and game types. They could do something very similar to this, make a program that runs along side the game and allows players to map out their own "dungeons" and put in creatures, create quests and such. Have the producers make starter adventures much like WC3's melee maps but then like the Custom Game feature you could have the players create there own maps, i know this would not appeal to all people but i know that I and many of my friends love to map and there are many other people out there that would spend just as much time in the creator as they would actually playing the game. you could then have a player be the "dm" and then have players that are the "heroes." this creates a player created feeling, eliminates the need for paid GM's and allows you to have your great pnp type game.
i know this could not be an mmorpg but would cover most of the bases.
How about this....
Once a player gets to a certain level he can choose to become a "LORD" and can set up a game zone and populate it with a certain amount of buildings to attract a NPC populaton. There is also a certain amount of "approved" monsters and things he can set up to attract players and player parties. While players are in his town part of the money they spend there is added to his account (taxes) this tax can then be used to add things to his growing town and/or surrounding landscape/dungeon.
Also the game devs can then opt to send groups of monsters to attack the town/NPC'S and the lord is responsible for putting contracts out to attract parties to come take care of the problem. Also as a LORD he can offer money for certain tasks.... IE: Crafting that hub for a water wheel, casting a spell for something, the return of an item.
while this could lead to abuse by people... I think it would make the world interesting.
Witty saying to amuse you goes here.
The reason this works in WC3 and would not work in an MMORPG is that an MMORPG is *persistant*, and WC3 is not. If somebody makes a screwed-up map in WC3, well, that affects you only if you're using that map. If somebody makes a screwed-up quest in an MMORPG, the results are *permanent* and affect the entire shard the quest was made available on *forever*. Every character gets to keep the uber-twinked item or whatever the problem was *always*, unless the game developers take it away from him, which creates its own set of problems. It won't work.
Chris Mattern