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Looking pretty rough on Twitch

RocknissRockniss Member Posts: 1,034
Been watching on twitch, I never considered the $100 pack, but watching on twitch, I can't believe how rough it is. I know it's alpha, but why would anyone want to pay for that?
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Comments

  • PokemonTrainerRedPokemonTrainerRed Member UncommonPosts: 375

    Because they want to be a part of the development and get their hands in straight away.

    I know it may seem silly to you, but to others, it's first access.

  • BookahBookah Member UncommonPosts: 260

     

    Ohh damn throw us a link :) I guess I could go search but...I LAZY.

     

     

    image
  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785

    Alpha is generally barely playable. That's why alphas aren't released to the public most of the time (this being a rare exception). Even betas used to be pretty buggy, but they've slowly morphed into demos.

  • ZadawnZadawn Member UncommonPosts: 670
    To be honest the character the guy is playing looks like an action figurine.


  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    Alpha, as we were told earlier this week at the press event, is a vertical slice of the game with -some- features, and even those aren't fully fleshed out. In addition, animations and whatnot are only 60% complete. If people are expecting even beta quality during alpha testing, they're going to be disappointed. This test is designed to get feedback from players and to work with the dev teams at a point where changes to the fundamental gameplay can still happen. 


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • FappuccinoFappuccino Member Posts: 159

    Did manage to find a stream.

    Are they aiming for a 2014 release? I'd be surprised if they were. 

  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by SBFord
    Alpha, as we were told earlier this week at the press event, is a vertical slice of the game with -some- features, and even those aren't fully fleshed out. In addition, animations and whatnot are only 60% complete. If people are expecting even beta quality during alpha testing, they're going to be disappointed. This test is designed to get feedback from players and to work with the dev teams at a point where changes to the fundamental gameplay can still happen. 

    Of course - this is the future of game development - get players in as early as possible and get immediate feedback.

    You can build a much better game this way, I see all MMO dev studios embracing this model, some already are (Trion with Trove for example).

    I completely agree. I think the industry is in for a huge paradigm shift in this direction and it's for the better, I think. We just have to reeducate ourselves on the true purpose of alpha and beta testing, that it's not supposed to be a demo experience and sales tool.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • RollieJoeRollieJoe Member UncommonPosts: 451
    Originally posted by SBFord

    I completely agree. I think the industry is in for a huge paradigm shift in this direction and it's for the better, I think. We just have to reeducate ourselves on the true purpose of alpha and beta testing, that it's not supposed to be a demo experience and sales tool.

    The problem is, as long as companies continue to treat alpha and beta testing as a sales tool, customers will continue to treat these as demos.  And rightly so. 

  • OmaliOmali MMO Business CorrespondentMember UncommonPosts: 1,177
    It's sad that customers have been conditioned by developers using alpha/beta as marketing tools that whenever a developer actually releases a real alpha the response is "oh my god, this isn't finished. This game sucks!"

    image

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    Originally posted by SBFord
    Alpha, as we were told earlier this week at the press event, is a vertical slice of the game with -some- features, and even those aren't fully fleshed out. In addition, animations and whatnot are only 60% complete. If people are expecting even beta quality during alpha testing, they're going to be disappointed. This test is designed to get feedback from players and to work with the dev teams at a point where changes to the fundamental gameplay can still happen. 

    Then they shouldnt be charging 60$ and 100$ to access it. 

    Any flak early access games get is well deserved especially when they are charging so much for it.. People forget companies PAY people to test games in this state not the other way around.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,653
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by SBFord
    Alpha, as we were told earlier this week at the press event, is a vertical slice of the game with -some- features, and even those aren't fully fleshed out. In addition, animations and whatnot are only 60% complete. If people are expecting even beta quality during alpha testing, they're going to be disappointed. This test is designed to get feedback from players and to work with the dev teams at a point where changes to the fundamental gameplay can still happen. 

    Of course - this is the future of game development - get players in as early as possible and get immediate feedback.

    You can build a much better game this way, I see all MMO dev studios embracing this model, some already are (Trion with Trove for example).

    My version:

     

    Of course-this is the future of game development- get players to pay as much as possible as early as possible to maximize the revenue stream.

     

    Players used to purchase a game.  Now they in effect donate to a company to make a game that they can then purchase.  It's a total win for developers and a win for SOME players.

     

    Disclaimer:  I have participated in Kickstarters so I am the pot calling the kettle black.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433
    Originally posted by SlyLoK
    Originally posted by SBFord
    Alpha, as we were told earlier this week at the press event, is a vertical slice of the game with -some- features, and even those aren't fully fleshed out. In addition, animations and whatnot are only 60% complete. If people are expecting even beta quality during alpha testing, they're going to be disappointed. This test is designed to get feedback from players and to work with the dev teams at a point where changes to the fundamental gameplay can still happen. 

    Then they shouldnt be charging 60$ and 100$ to access it. 

    Any flak early access games get is well deserved especially when they are charging so much for it.. People forget companies PAY people to test games in this state not the other way around.

    Agreed. Perhaps an exception could be made if the game was extremely open about where it was going. Sort of an alternative form of crowd-funding with the public building the game together.

    But paying $60-100 to be bound by NDA is a bit iffy.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • DragimDragim Member UncommonPosts: 867

    So now instead of people being tired and quitting a month after release, they will quit after open beta?

    I swear this beta-testing is getting ridiculous.  We wonder why games have no longevity, it is because people are experiencing the game over and over and over again before it even comes out.

    (Oh but Dragim, I love XXX game and am a super fanboy that will never quit no matter how many times I have to reroll in beta because of wipes.  I LOVE the noob zones and playing the game over and over in Beta so when the game releases, nothing is new to me and I rush to level cap because I know the game in and out (even though ti just released) and am now going to complain/moan/quit because I am bored and have nothing to do. Then when I quit and many others quit, you who still enjoy the game because you didn't play beta and haven't played the world 5x over will be left with a void of server mergers, crashing economies and trolls who have nothing better to do than itch and moan about how boring the game is now.)

    Why make a new character and experience the "newb" areas when you did it 5x in beta?

    It takes the luster out of the game, it creates powergamers who know all the secrets before the game even comes out, it sets the game up to fail in my opinion.

    Alpha, Beta, whatever they are, early access is a terrible idea and companies should be paying employees to test their games internally, not allow it to be open to the public.

    You can argue all you want, but with Every new game, with Every big open beta, big closed betas, alpha testers...IT HAPPENS.

    They think it is free marketing, well it might be, but ultimately they are really screwing themselves over. (the companies who make these games and allow everyone to test it before it comes out)

    -----

    But hey, I am not playing this kiddy inspired graphic game anyways, but my rant about betas stays the same.  It ruins games, for everyone, even those not in the Beta.

    I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 Member UncommonPosts: 1,023
    Originally posted by DMKano

    The way the female character stands with shoulders pulled way back is so bizzare to me.

     

    looks kinda like a monkey

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    I was thinking the opposite. I think it looks pretty good for an alpha. 
  • csthaocsthao Member UncommonPosts: 1,122
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by SBFord
    Alpha, as we were told earlier this week at the press event, is a vertical slice of the game with -some- features, and even those aren't fully fleshed out. In addition, animations and whatnot are only 60% complete. If people are expecting even beta quality during alpha testing, they're going to be disappointed. This test is designed to get feedback from players and to work with the dev teams at a point where changes to the fundamental gameplay can still happen. 

    Of course - this is the future of game development - get players in as early as possible and get immediate feedback.

    You can build a much better game this way, I see all MMO dev studios embracing this model, some already are (Trion with Trove for example).

    Unfortunately it can also be the downfall of an MMO. Any real programmer that plays from alpha can code his own scripts and get an early head start on making bot programs as well.

  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129

    The paid alpha, if that's even the correct way to describe it, is a way to ensure that the most passionate, interested gamers are present to assist the dev team with what works, what doesn't, to make suggestions and to offer constructive criticism. Players purchasing the Founders' Packs wanted to be able to have an unprecedented ability to precipitate change in the game at a point where it still can be changed. Beta is too late.

     


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • EunuchmakerEunuchmaker Member UncommonPosts: 204
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by RollieJoe
    Originally posted by SBFord

    I completely agree. I think the industry is in for a huge paradigm shift in this direction and it's for the better, I think. We just have to reeducate ourselves on the true purpose of alpha and beta testing, that it's not supposed to be a demo experience and sales tool.

    The problem is, as long as companies continue to treat alpha and beta testing as a sales tool, customers will continue to treat these as demos.  And rightly so. 

    If they hadn't made alpha access paid for, every moron, kid and their dog would have logged in, and the result would have been abysmal. I understand why they made the alpha and beta "paid for" for 100% access. It gets rid of many of the usual parasites that infect most other MMORPG betas. And you get decent unique items and perks for when the game is released too.

    They also offer full refund if you don't like the alpha, which is way more honest than many other MMORPG developers (including all the kickstarter trash). So basically, the consumer takes zero risk here, the company takes all the risk.

    What's wrong with that? You're able to try a game months before it's finalized, get your voice heard for changes that may affect the final result, AND you can get all your money back if you really don't like it.

    Not going to go into details because of the NDA, but I'm most likely going to upgrade my account from "Explorer" to "Trailblazer" consider what I have seen so far. SoE, for once, are 100% honest, didn't lie on a single thing, and you as a consumer take absolutely no risk.

    +1

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger Member Posts: 2,596
    Originally posted by Dragim

    So now instead of people being tired and quitting a month after release, they will quit after open beta?

    I swear this beta-testing is getting ridiculous.  We wonder why games have no longevity, it is because people are experiencing the game over and over and over again before it even comes out.

    (Oh but Dragim, I love XXX game and am a super fanboy that will never quit no matter how many times I have to reroll in beta because of wipes.  I LOVE the noob zones and playing the game over and over in Beta so when the game releases, nothing is new to me and I rush to level cap because I know the game in and out (even though ti just released) and am now going to complain/moan/quit because I am bored and have nothing to do. Then when I quit and many others quit, you who still enjoy the game because you didn't play beta and haven't played the world 5x over will be left with a void of server mergers, crashing economies and trolls who have nothing better to do than itch and moan about how boring the game is now.)

    Why make a new character and experience the "newb" areas when you did it 5x in beta?

    It takes the luster out of the game, it creates powergamers who know all the secrets before the game even comes out, it sets the game up to fail in my opinion.

    Alpha, Beta, whatever they are, early access is a terrible idea and companies should be paying employees to test their games internally, not allow it to be open to the public.

    You can argue all you want, but with Every new game, with Every big open beta, big closed betas, alpha testers...IT HAPPENS.

    They think it is free marketing, well it might be, but ultimately they are really screwing themselves over. (the companies who make these games and allow everyone to test it before it comes out)

    -----

    But hey, I am not playing this kiddy inspired graphic game anyways, but my rant about betas stays the same.  It ruins games, for everyone, even those not in the Beta.

    Where I differ from you is, I'm only willing to play an MMO now, if it's something I will want to play for at least two years.  Nothing like that has released for me since Star Wars Galaxies.  If EQN turns out to be just another "play for 90 days and leave" game like all the other MMOs on the market, then so be it.  

    Since this is going to be a creative game where we are building the world, it has the potential to have much longer appeal, and a changing face, as it evolves.

    I'm a grown adult, spent money on this to support the game, and for the privilege of having my feedback matter while the game is in development.  I don't really care if people think it should be free.  It wasn't, so I bought it.  You can only speak for yourself when you measure how much something is worth.  I spend $100 on a regular weekend dinner with my wife, so this wasn't a huge purchase for me.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    Originally posted by SBFord
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by SBFord
    Alpha, as we were told earlier this week at the press event, is a vertical slice of the game with -some- features, and even those aren't fully fleshed out. In addition, animations and whatnot are only 60% complete. If people are expecting even beta quality during alpha testing, they're going to be disappointed. This test is designed to get feedback from players and to work with the dev teams at a point where changes to the fundamental gameplay can still happen. 

    Of course - this is the future of game development - get players in as early as possible and get immediate feedback.

    You can build a much better game this way, I see all MMO dev studios embracing this model, some already are (Trion with Trove for example).

    I completely agree. I think the industry is in for a huge paradigm shift in this direction and it's for the better, I think. We just have to reeducate ourselves on the true purpose of alpha and beta testing, that it's not supposed to be a demo experience and sales tool.

    It's not the players fault that companies have been using beta as a paid for early access program it's the companies.  Sales and marketing departments have completely distorted the concept of what beta means to turn it into a way to generate sales earlier than they would have before.  What makes anyone think they won't do the exact same thing to Alpha?

    The only way I would call this trend a positive thing would be if companies separated the financial aspects from the development aspects but even in Landmarks case they have not been able to do that.  After all we have a guaranteed beta by date built into every single founder pack.  How many fundamental game play mechanics changes can they really get done when sales and marketing has tied their hands behind their backs with a beta date?

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,653
    Originally posted by Tierless

    I've dabbled in alphas that are a stick man in a white box trying out movement stuff!

    Alphas these days are incredible compared to what a true alpha was 10 years ago. The "paid alpha" thing has sort of changed the term. Now players expect Alpha to be a playable game, when in reality, until recently it never was.

    Because now players are paying hundreds of dollars for the privilege of accessing that Alpha.  That kind of sets expectations higher than the old days.

     

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • blastermasterblastermaster Member UncommonPosts: 259

    I agree with the way they are doing it. Had they just let anyone in, the feedback they would have ended up with would be pretty useless (would be too much of a job to separate the good from the bad).

    But I'm just a little concerned about this way of doing things (letting people in so early in the development phase). I'm not sure about the end results once all that "feedback" gets processed. 

    I guess there are 2 side to the coin, but to me, the big studios are now more like the big studios from Hollywood. They will produce something for the mass, do private screenings to see if X part is accepted or not, and change it according to the reactions,etc.  In the end we get a blockbuster, that has the same recipe than the previous one, with a pretty ending where the good side always wins,etc. because that`s what most people want. (Ok, I'm generalizing but still..).

    What happens to the film maker's vision, where the only possible ending was that the hero actually dies, and the world goes to hell? It's lost and the meaning of it  is lost to, just because "the people" wanted it their way.

    So once you put lots of players in there, that start to provide feedback on your game systems, you open the door to derive from your actual vision (granted you had one in the first place), and to end up with something that, while interesting for the mass, will be consumed rapidly, and quickly forgotten for the next title in line (which is pretty much what is happening for a while with MMORPGs).

    Now, I'm not saying that it is something that will happen with EQN, but that's the risk I see in it. It's the same with the "kickstart trash" (as defined by JL.. Time will tell if I agree with this or not..  ;) ), but since they target a very very specific audience from the go, and that the number of sales they aim for is really far from the AAA targets, I would be more inclined to think that they will be a lot closer to the original vision than the more popular titles getting feedback from people with very very different background/tastes, because, like we see daily around here, everyone has his idea of what he wants, they need to be strong headed enough to not try to please them all!

    --

    Anyways, I digress, back to the OT, I think it should be expected for an Alpha to be rough ( I actually thought it was pretty good for an alpha). There are lots of iterations coming down the road from just to reach a Beta state, and the base seems solid. Like I said, I agree with how SoE actually does it, I just wish they can set their foot down when needed and not try to please everyone!

     

     

  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts Member UncommonPosts: 1,555
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by RollieJoe
    Originally posted by SBFord

    I completely agree. I think the industry is in for a huge paradigm shift in this direction and it's for the better, I think. We just have to reeducate ourselves on the true purpose of alpha and beta testing, that it's not supposed to be a demo experience and sales tool.

    The problem is, as long as companies continue to treat alpha and beta testing as a sales tool, customers will continue to treat these as demos.  And rightly so. 

    If they hadn't made alpha access paid for, every moron, kid and their dog would have logged in, and the result would have been abysmal. I understand why they made the alpha and beta "paid for" for 100% access. It gets rid of many of the usual parasites that infect most other MMORPG betas. And you get decent unique items and perks for when the game is released too.

    They also offer full refund if you don't like the alpha, which is way more honest than many other MMORPG developers (including all the kickstarter trash). So basically, the consumer takes zero risk here, the company takes all the risk.

    What's wrong with that? You're able to try a game months before it's finalized, get your voice heard for changes that may affect the final result, AND you can get all your money back if you really don't like it.

    Not going to go into details because of the NDA, but I'm most likely going to upgrade my account from "Explorer" to "Trailblazer" consider what I have seen so far. SoE, for once, are 100% honest, didn't lie on a single thing, and you as a consumer take absolutely no risk.

    Because money = intelligence right? So because someone doesn't pay $100 to pre ruin the game for themselves they are inferior to a person who shells out 100 bucks to "play" the game. I say play because 90% of these pre order people will not submit bug reports and will flock to forums whining about an unfinished product, but they are superior to people who aren't fooled into buying early access right? Back in the day you got accepted for alphas, and betas based on your computer specs, and your previous experience. now every dipstick with a credit card can be a game developer!

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • ThornrageThornrage Member UncommonPosts: 659
    Originally posted by SBFord

    The paid alpha, if that's even the correct way to describe it, is a way to ensure that the most passionate, interested gamers are present to assist the dev team with what works, what doesn't, to make suggestions and to offer constructive criticism. Players purchasing the Founders' Packs wanted to be able to have an unprecedented ability to precipitate change in the game at a point where it still can be changed. Beta is too late.

     

    I think this is a great way to do it. I personally did not spend $100 on alpha testing, but those that did can afford it and have every right to spend their money they way the see fit. However, this only works if the dev team actually does listen to the alpha testers. The testers will not be right on every issue but if the dev team doesnt listen, then this is all for nothing.

    To be honest, if I had the money to put into the alpha access, I would have done it myself.

    "I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist

  • BraindomeBraindome Member UncommonPosts: 959
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    I was thinking the opposite. I think it looks pretty good for an alpha. 

    Exactly what I was thinking.

    Not sure what the OP was looking for, but I know what I was expecting "not much" and now after watching i'm actually quite impressed and surprised, it looks fairly good as much as i'm surprised to admit that.

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