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in 2012/2013 lots of DAOC comparisons... do they still hold true? (really curious ex-DAOC player)
doc_claytch
Member Posts: 29
I saw quite a few articles in 2012 and even as recent as march 2013 regarding this game being almost a DAOC-2 and pulling many of the great qualities from that game. But now, i see nothing recently touting TESO resembles or even remotely matches DAOC... has TESO done away with their ambitious ideas?
Simply put, im on the fence if this game is anything like daoc aside from the fact there are 3 alliances.
1) Does this game play anything like DAOC?
2) Has anyone been able to experience (or are they even in the game) the PVP dungeons, and are they as large or similar to darkness falls in daoc?
3) What are the comments/feedback regarding the shadow/sneak based class?
I have seen some "hour" estimate regarding how long PVE exsits but its slightly confusing. In daoc upon launch, reaching the max level was quite difficult. I think i played a LOT at this time, every day a week, averaging 5 hours a day with long week ends... and it still took 4-5 months with the fastest people doing in 2-3 months i believe. Over time the XP curve was relaxed which was fine.
4) Whats the deal with being able to "level 3 times" in each alliance area or frontier i take it? Im confused here. I know there are some other ranks aside from your base char level, but i dont know all the details.
5) just watched the dev video of them playing... is there /stick /face or /target macros? When dealing with lots of mobs, it was common place knowledge that the support DPS characters needed to maintain the correct target based off who was the main tank in the group. It also really helps in PvP! Is there anything similar to ensure people arent spamming AoE dots or engaging random targets?
Im looking to play both a support character and a sneak/assassin and im really curious if this game looks/feels more similar to WoW which i couldnt stand. I need more realism, and i need solid PvP like darkness falls and open world AvA/RvR.
Comments
So to address the only one that I'm sure about. Sneaking has more realism to it in ESO (IMO). You stick to the shadows, you try to stay out of LOS of the person/mob you are sneaking up to, and distance. There is a possibility to be detected, but even an Orc in heavy armor can hide in tall grass if they are far enough away. So I think you will like the stealth mechanics as they are actually stealth mechanics and very few flat out invisibility options from what I've heard in videos, including some videos linked here on this website.
Found one of them.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/loadNews/29282/Tamriel-Topics-On-Stealth
Until there's a Darkness Falls style PvE Dungeon to fight over, Factions are locked by Race, and Classes are Faction specific you'll never have the necessary style of RvR to compare to DAoC.
With that being said, ESO has come the closest because it uses ONE area for it's PvP and it's HUGE. Two things that WAR and GW2 got horribly wrong.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I can't say too much but rest assured all the questions in your post will become clear when you enter Cyrodill. Capturing the Imperial city for example definitely rewards playable content.
The game is very different to most MMOs i've played, in both look and feel of the systems. The only portion I'd relate to DAOC is the capturable dungeons and capturing of objectives.
I look back on DAOC as a nice nostalgia and that's it though. I'm glad they're not trying to copy ideas directly out like GW2 did.
Have to pass because I didn't play DAoC much.
Second half I agree on, from what I understand because of the map size and the goals it throws the circular zerg out the window. Basically a zerg in gw2 flipping Keeps in a circle because wall auto repair on capture and it just feels like small maps.
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What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
1) Does this game play anything like DAOC?
Been awhile since I played DAOC - but loved it - as you say think the biggest thing in common are the 3 factions - and the keep / siege attack
DAOC imo also had "rough" look - as in non cartoonist - that's the same here
2) Has anyone been able to experience (or are they even in the game) the PVP dungeons, and are they as large or similar to darkness falls in daoc?
ohh Darkness Falls - why ohh why haven't that been used again - to my knowledge there are no PVP Dungeons - but you will have the big center zone being one big PVP area - like you had in DAOC
3) What are the comments/feedback regarding the shadow/sneak based class?
I have seen some "hour" estimate regarding how long PVE exsits but its slightly confusing. In daoc upon launch, reaching the max level was quite difficult. I think i played a LOT at this time, every day a week, averaging 5 hours a day with long week ends... and it still took 4-5 months with the fastest people doing in 2-3 months i believe. Over time the XP curve was relaxed which was fine.
Looks to be 2 questions - due to TESO open skill system, all classes (as far as I know) will be able to sneak - you will then be able to specialize into sneak / shadow of you like
As for the PVE exp speed - what I have heard is that is clearly slower than your average MMO (where you normally can become level 10 with 2-3 hours of play) - how it will be in the long run I do not know
4) Whats the deal with being able to "level 3 times" in each alliance area or frontier i take it? Im confused here. I know there are some other ranks aside from your base char level, but i dont know all the details.
Not sure where you got that from - but yeah I guess its the same as with DAOC - you could play each faction up as a new experience (on a new server as I remember it)
5) just watched the dev video of them playing... is there /stick /face or /target macros? When dealing with lots of mobs, it was common place knowledge that the support DPS characters needed to maintain the correct target based off who was the main tank in the group. It also really helps in PvP! Is there anything similar to ensure people arent spamming AoE dots or engaging random targets?
All movies I have seen (and I have seen a lot / them all) - there are no firm targeting, think it comes with the action gameplay they want to do
Im looking to play both a support character and a sneak/assassin and im really curious if this game looks/feels more similar to WoW which i couldnt stand. I need more realism, and i need solid PvP like darkness falls and open world AvA/RvR.
I HOPE we will get a Darkness Falls - but we will at least get a big open RvR - Keep Sieges ect.
Due to the open skill system - I dont think the classic Trinity will be used much - if you look at the new group video from a few weeks back - you see hectic combat for sure - no pure tanks, or pure healers
I dont know much for sure - but I have been following TESO alot - so think the above is pretty accurate - else I am sure a troll or 2 will correct my mistakes
Cheers
Trivan
Thanks everyone for the responses and the video link, it was interesting and hadnt seen it yet...
Trivan,
i had a difficult time describing it but yes, the rough "look" vs cartoonish debate is what im referring to. Obviously in 2014, with the experience and hardware available, we should expect good graphics but the style is something that is a developer decision. This for me, is a large issue even if the game-play is exceptional its difficult to latch onto the cartoon/kid feel vs a more mature setting (minus the lego series games that i sort of fell in love with too!).
As for cyrodil, the main "frontier" or i guess open world area... yes, at the least the game does offer this. I do hope, similary to daoc though, that there are dungeons within this large open world. I was pretty sure i saw some stats suggesting cyrodil had multiple PVE dungeons as well which would make leveling for loot/exploration that much more tense/interesting when you can be attacked by the other two alliances. If they later launch a DF-similar dungeon, that too will a great addition! It will be quite interestign to see how loot is organized within this entire game. They claim to really want to reward exploration, and this gives me a feeling like the giant raids (tuscaran glacier) in DAOC to get the very rare armor and weapon heal procs. I wonder what neat things TESO might have relative to the "normal" gear most people can find.
I would like to try the beta, and i subscribed but havent heard back so im basically deciding between a pre-order or wait a bit upon launch to see if i will give this a shot. I dont play MMO's, or games that much anymore but im interested in this. The game mechanics for fighting are definitely different than i would expect from an MMO but im all for a skill based system. I just dont know if TESO has really accomplished that.
Just wanted to add that the developers have mentioned several times that they want to add a dungeon similar to Darkness Falls sometime in the future...if you were there in DAoC at the beginning, you know that DF came a few months after release.
Also...Elder Scrolls here work in a similar fashion to how relics worked in DAoC...right down to needing to run it back to safety after you manage to nab one and everyone in Cyrodiil and in PvE zones will see a broadcqast message whenever a scroll is being stolen. (this is not an NDA breach, Sage mentioned it in a Q&A a couple of weeks ago)
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You sure there isn't 30 versions of one big area ....making this big area more like an arena ?
I really should clarify this one because it can be interpreted in many ways. So you go to level 50 in your faction in PVE and wish to move on. You go to a new faction for 50+ level content (you are still level 50 but you can pick up more skills and such), basically nightmare mode but in an area you've never explored before the size of an entire alliance area. Okay... say you finally finished all the PVE content in the 50+ area and it's time to move on again. You go to another new faction area for 50++ level content, basically hell mode but in an area you've never explored before the size of an entire faction area, and yes, these are just PVE story lines/quests/exploring/all sorts of regular game fun and I would guess some bull$hit hard world/dungeon/story line bosses? So instead of grinding forever a couple PVE bosses at the top of your faction to get slightly better gear, you can do it as entire new story lines/exploration fun time.
So Cyrodiil is instanced into campaigns if that's what you mean, if you think Cyrodiil is just a bunch of smaller instances added together like a series of arenas side by side, then you are wrong. Cyrodiil (size wise from the PVP release info) looks like it ate Skyrim for breakfast and each campaign is all of Cyrodiil.
Maybe that doesn't answer your question... if you reword it I can link you some different PVP stuff.
From what I've seen and read, it is quite different from DAOC.
- DAOC had a lot of classes, ESO doesn't
- DAOC had different classes for each faction, ESO doesnt
- DAOC's classes were complicated and varied, ESO's arent
So all three factions will have exactly the same limited classes, with exactly the same limited skills. Totally unlike DAOC.
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Yes I'm having a hard time getting my head around the instanced campaigns ... so any info on this would be a bonus
The campaigns work almost exactly like servers. You choose one and you are then part of that campaign and fight for your faction within that campaign. Every time you enter the PvP zone, you are basically entering that specific campaign area. When you are outside of the PvP zone, you are back to the megaserver and share the world with everyone in layered instances.
The first two I agree with, third one half agree that they are varied just not complicated.
Your summary is an uninformed assumption, the class skills make up a teeny tiny fraction of the skills lines you can unlock by actually playing the game. The classes don't have the same weight on your choices, they are more of starting points to complement what you want to be. Also I can't remember how many skills were in each class in DAOC but I know that in ESO per class you get 3 ultimates, 15 actives that can be morphed adding new affects or changing the type of attack, and 12 passives to invest in. So the morphs maybe you wouldn't consider fulling changing into another skill... so leaving those out, we have 30 skills you can invest in per class... this doesn't include any weapon skills.
Edit: or racial skills
Found an example:
http://tamrielfoundry.com/dragonknight
Other classes are listed too. Under Game Info drop down, you will see classes.
You sure there isn't 30 versions of one big area ....making this big area more like an arena ?
So Cyrodiil is instanced into campaigns if that's what you mean, if you think Cyrodiil is just a bunch of smaller instances added together like a series of arenas side by side, then you are wrong. Cyrodiil (size wise from the PVP release info) looks like it ate Skyrim for breakfast and each campaign is all of Cyrodiil.
Maybe that doesn't answer your question... if you reword it I can link you some different PVP stuff.
Yes I'm having a hard time getting my head around the instanced campaigns ... so any info on this would be a bonus
Campaigns are servers. Simple as that. A character is only allowed in one where they can earn alliance points and such. You can be a guest in another server, but it will be limited to the cap. There will be both a soft and hard cap. Last heard cap was 2000, but probably different now.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Like you, I've been hoping for DAOC RVR.
It seems to have been their intent on making RVR similar to DAOC at one point. I think now though that some of the core elements that made DAOC what it was are now missing.
For one, there aren't separate servers. Instead, there is automatic instancing that tries to match you up with people based on some algorithm. I'm not sure how it all works, but think you will have guild mates and close friends, but you won't be seeing all the same people (server-wide) all the time. Semi-famous people and rivalries will be a lot less common.
The second has been talked about incessantly for the last week, so I'm sure you are aware. The developers caved on the racial unlocks, which has made a lot of generic MMO and ESO people very happy. It's bad news for the DAOC crowd though, as the RVR will now be mirror-image teams (less faction-centric tactics, and less realm pride).
Combat to me feels more like GW2 or normal MMO stuff. I won't go into specifics due to NDA. Try it yourself though, not everyone feels that way and many will argue passionately about it.
The final thing is that they have started to go down the road of real money for game content. That's a slippery slope that won't end well. As soon as the cash shop starts to give someone a leg up in combat, then game over.
Actually it has a lot of classes..... Just like in any Elder Scrolls game... You make that class you want.
it's been a long time since i have played Daoc but i seem to remember it having battlegrounds too.
in fact that's where wow got the idea from, only difference is they were not instances IIRC.
You are talking about the PvE megaserver with instancing. They will try to get you into an instance for PvE with your quild, players you have played with before, like minded players and so forth.
Cyrodill will have servers (campaigns) that you will always log into and fight against others you will get to know. Rivalries can be common in these campaigns.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
So far from what I have read and seen, no.
At least for me, the thing that made DAoC "special" were the classes. Healer could heal or go melee (augmentation line? the one with the atk spd buff) but not both. Or take the Shaman for example. It was a buff char with a bit healing, that's not going to be in ESO afaik. The buffs are split between the base classes, as seen on some site that I better not name. So even if you wanted to be/build a Shaman you cant because the system doesnt let you pick all buffs.
Another thing, every class can just switch to a staff and heal themselves. The same heals a Healer gets while using the staff! Think Warrior with armor buff/dmg reflect(class ability) + HoT + single heal. It's not class..yish and more of a big fat blah.
The RvR from what I read tries to put you with friends, guild and stuff BUT it might not happen and you have to play as a guest in their campaing or they play your campaign as guest.In DAoC I knew I would be playing RvR/ PvP with my friends because we are on the same server. Heck, I could PvE with someone and if we thought we wanted to PvP together, we could. With the different campaigns, that is probably not possible.
As I said, that is what I read but I hope this weekend will prove me wrong because otherwise, imho, it won't attract many DAoCers.