When you need 4 people playing staff to heal because the 1 person playing tank can't hold any kind of agro for shit and the pulls are all cluster fucks for the required entry level for the 1st dungeon, or everyone has to play a flavor of the month hax combo with over-tuned abilities to be viable. I'd say that's a good reason to keep the NDA up until forever.
I would encourage anyone wanting to try it out go grab a key. Plus these types of betas are very important for stress testing vital systems in an MMORPG. like the game or hate at least give it a try and help the engineers be able to light a smoke off some of the servers CPU's which are possibly almost melting as we speak.
"By all means, reach for the stars but you need to build the spaceship first"
It is difficult to have faith in someone, who has no faith in himself!
This is in such a stark contrast with the open policy of Everquest Landmark... Sigh. I don't think ESO has so much to hide, actually. But I am really tired about companies with that "hush hush let the players not debate about the game" approach. I PROFOUNDLY hate it when companies try to quell any discussion. It brings back BAD SWTOR memories when Bioware tried to kill every possible critical debate from the fans and players. That never bodes well.
And no, that is no conspiracy. I am in beta. I am not saying anything about the game, but an open debate would help.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
It is difficult to have faith in someone, who has no faith in himself!
This is in such a stark contrast with the open policy of Everquest Landmark... Sigh. I don't think ESO has so much to hide, actually. But I am really tired about companies with that "hush hush let the players not debate about the game" approach. I PROFOUNDLY hate it when companies try to quell any discussion. It brings back BAD SWTOR memories when Bioware tried to kill every possible critical debate from the fans and players. That never bodes well.
And no, that is no conspiracy. I am in beta. I am not saying anything about the game, but an open debate would help.
Here's my opinion on the matter: Who gives a shit? As long as I can get into beta and see the game for myself, I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about it. If I like the game, I'll subscribe. Period. And getting into beta in this game isn't exactly difficult to do. If I like the game or don't like the game, what do I care if someone else does or doesn't? Why does their opinion matter to me?
Most of the people who have a problem with the NDA thing are self-important blowhards who simply want to be the first guy to start a thread with their "review" of the game, or make a youtube stream/video so they can pat themselves on the back. If anyone out there is concerned that ESO is "hiding" anything, go get a freakin' key and play. It isn't hard to do.
I know the beta is still under nda but... come on... After playing it for a good amount of time... Trying to Take it as an elder scrolls, this game is so empty and soulless... i have a thousand time more immersion and fun playing skywind...
Does that mean that Zenimax can keep the NDA intact till launch day? Anyone recall the last time, in recent history, an AAA MMORPG that did this (i.e. skip the open beta step entirely)? Does this seem odd to anyone as well?
1. Yes they can and more than likely will hold the NDA as long as they can.
2. I guess FFXIV was the closest yet did nothing to really stop the leaks.
3. Odd? of course its odd but that doesn't mean unexpected, they have been in damage control mode since last years PAX.
The thing about their beta that I don't like is that they are just weekends for most testers and that the full beta has few people in it. This means that most content is only being tested by a few while they use everyone else to perfect the start of the game (as most of the weekend betas have been limited to lvl 15-20) and the PvP end game zone.
This means the bulk of the PvE is only being tested by a few so prepare for a game with a ton of flaws that will receive a lot of overhauls as more and more people get into the majority of the game. There has been so much derp surrounding this game I am in perpetual shock that Firor somehow managed to talk a corporation into giving him this IP and that much money.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by imagina I know the beta is still under nda but... come on... After playing it for a good amount of time... Trying to Take it as an elder scrolls, this game is so empty and soulless... i have a thousand time more immersion and fun playing skywind...
It is difficult to have faith in someone, who has no faith in himself!
This is in such a stark contrast with the open policy of Everquest Landmark... Sigh. I don't think ESO has so much to hide, actually. But I am really tired about companies with that "hush hush let the players not debate about the game" approach. I PROFOUNDLY hate it when companies try to quell any discussion. It brings back BAD SWTOR memories when Bioware tried to kill every possible critical debate from the fans and players. That never bodes well.
And no, that is no conspiracy. I am in beta. I am not saying anything about the game, but an open debate would help.
Here's my opinion on the matter: Who gives a shit? As long as I can get into beta and see the game for myself, I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about it. If I like the game, I'll subscribe. Period. And getting into beta in this game isn't exactly difficult to do. If I like the game or don't like the game, what do I care if someone else does or doesn't? Why does their opinion matter to me?
Most of the people who have a problem with the NDA thing are self-important blowhards who simply want to be the first guy to start a thread with their "review" of the game, or make a youtube stream/video so they can pat themselves on the back. If anyone out there is concerned that ESO is "hiding" anything, go get a freakin' key and play. It isn't hard to do.
Whoa Angry Much? o.0
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by imagina I know the beta is still under nda but... come on... After playing it for a good amount of time... Trying to Take it as an elder scrolls, this game is so empty and soulless... i have a thousand time more immersion and fun playing skywind...
Do you mean Skyrim?
Skyrim + Morrowind= Skywind. At least I think that's what he was getting at. Anyway, OF COURSE he's going to have more immersion playing a SPRPG vs. an MMORPG. When has that ever not been the case?
It is difficult to have faith in someone, who has no faith in himself!
This is in such a stark contrast with the open policy of Everquest Landmark... Sigh. I don't think ESO has so much to hide, actually. But I am really tired about companies with that "hush hush let the players not debate about the game" approach. I PROFOUNDLY hate it when companies try to quell any discussion. It brings back BAD SWTOR memories when Bioware tried to kill every possible critical debate from the fans and players. That never bodes well.
And no, that is no conspiracy. I am in beta. I am not saying anything about the game, but an open debate would help.
Here's my opinion on the matter: Who gives a shit? As long as I can get into beta and see the game for myself, I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about it. If I like the game, I'll subscribe. Period. And getting into beta in this game isn't exactly difficult to do. If I like the game or don't like the game, what do I care if someone else does or doesn't? Why does their opinion matter to me?
Most of the people who have a problem with the NDA thing are self-important blowhards who simply want to be the first guy to start a thread with their "review" of the game, or make a youtube stream/video so they can pat themselves on the back. If anyone out there is concerned that ESO is "hiding" anything, go get a freakin' key and play. It isn't hard to do.
Whoa Angry Much? o.0
Not at all. I'm simply saying that if it's easy to get into a beta, why not get into it and try it out for yourself? As long as the beta is free, you've got all the resources to make an informed decision right at your fingertips. And you've got the most important bit of info of all: Your own opinion, since that's what matters. Do YOU like the game?
So who really gives a crap if other people can't tell you about it? Like I said, I think most people who want the NDA pulled simply fancy themselves some kind of MMO connoisseur whose opinion is to be treasured by others. And the fact they can't talk about everything and persuade/dissuade people from trying the game for themselves.
I guess there are some people who give a decent representation of a game by just presenting facts regarding game systems, gameplay, and the nuts/bolts of how the game works. And they do this simply to inform people of the broad view of the game. Objective and without judgment. But how many of these types of gamer "reviews" do we really see? Very, very few. Most people simply want to tell you why THEY did or didn't like a game, and therefore, why YOU should like or dislike the game. As if their opinion actually mattered.
Here's how a proper review of a game should go. I'm in the Wildstar beta. So I'm qualified to tell you a bit about the game. Here is my review:
Sign up for their beta and try it yourself. My opinion of the game shouldn't matter to you, since I'm not the one sitting at your PC playing it.
Originally posted by imagina I know the beta is still under nda but... come on... After playing it for a good amount of time... Trying to Take it as an elder scrolls, this game is so empty and soulless... i have a thousand time more immersion and fun playing skywind...
Do you mean Skyrim?
Skyrim + Morrowind= Skywind. At least I think that's what he was getting at. Anyway, OF COURSE he's going to have more immersion playing a SPRPG vs. an MMORPG. When has that ever not been the case?
With sandbox MMOs.
Themeparks are shallow, some so shallow that developers think they even need to create pride for you. This is something themepark players cant understand.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by Kyarra I just think people need to calm down, grab a beta key that is in abundance, play the beta and see for yourselves if the game is worth playing. I see nothing wrong with a game keeping their NDA up for the duration.
wait, using common sense?
Making an effort? The devil you say!
Since they are going to be having more and larger betas, and if the recent beta is any indication, more keys for anyone who wants to "sign up" then It shouldn't be too hard to see what the game is about.
But, as is indicated earlier in the thread, they do intend to release the nda before launch so, um "problem solved"?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I thought one use for open beta was to stress test the servers. The only advantage not having open beta is to prevent cancellations of preorders or other prepurchases for this game. Seriously the more I think about it, the more this seems like SWTOR again.
That's not to say that SWTOR was a complete failure. It was just a very mediocre effort unworthy of franchise.
I thought one use for open beta was to stress test the servers. The only advantage not having open beta is to prevent cancellations of preorders or other prepurchases for this game. Seriously the more I think about it, the more this seems like SWTOR again.
That's not to say that SWTOR was a complete failure. It was just a very mediocre effort unworthy of franchise.
From this point on anyone that wants in the beta can get in the beta. I am not seeing your point here. There will be larger tests and an upcoming PvP test so get in on the action and see what its all about yourself.
Originally posted by Fearum This has to mean they are working with the NSA to watch everything we do, I see no other reason to keep an NDA going until launch. Also there might be aliens in my closet that keep eating my boxer briefs, not sure if they have anything to do with the NDA also but I find it really strange. I don't trust them, you shouldn't either. Remember to turn off your smart phones, they are watching.
The aliens only do that because they like what you spill on the briefs late at night!
TWIMMO episode 178. Anything within [] are my comments or ideas inserted to expand on what was said.
G.G. : Gary Gannon M.B. : Mike Byrne
8:58
G.G.: They [Zenimax] can't be happy today. We have a comprehensive list of everyone out there posting stuff... I gotta say that 80% of it is... it was hard to find something very positive. We found a lot of negative, we found some neutral, and then we found IGN talked about the controller [in a positive light].
[The list he is most likely talking about is the following]
G.G.: You want those last sentences to be [In an ESO review] "My gameplay session flew by to the point that it felt way too short. I didn't want to get up from the computer and I can't wait to play this game again." I've not seen that. This is alarming.
10:25
M.B.: You pointed out the best ones [positive reviews] are neutral.
10:51
M.B.: Unless you are a huge fanboy/fangirl; there is not much reason to recommend it to you.
11:00
G.G.: These aren't reviews, but they are reviews. They are called first impressions, first looks, but let’s be honest... it’s a review of what they got to experience [The Press]. It’s got people talking, and not in a very good way.
11:23
G.G.: What do you do right now? If I were Zenimax I would probably lift the NDA at this point.
M.B.: I think you have to. If you are going to take all this press... you are encouraging people to now go and read about your game or see videos about your game. Drop the NDA right now and let the floodgates open so that eventually your Elder Scroll fans will put out some good stuff out there for you.
13:04
M.B.: Let the people that have participated in your beta longer than maybe the press guy who has been there for 6 hours, I mean they are admitting that these videos or write-ups: we played for 5 hours, we played for 8 hours, we got to level 6, we got to level 7... they are all admitting that they are very early in the game. Let some of the folks that are further along, that maybe opened up the first dungeon or two, let those folks that aren't media but love doing their YouTube stuff, let them do it now. You need some good lights, and right now, you aren't getting them.
14:13
G.G.: I gotta wonder what the conversation is going on right now in the office. You [Zenimax] are not happy. A good 80% of it is just [Press Review/Impressions]... is telling you that this is not very exciting. You gotta be looking at yourself... what is the problem here? Is it the early game? Did we completely just screw up? Is this not what people want? There has to be so many things going through their minds right now about the development of this game. I just can't imagine.
M.B.: Did we pull a TERA? Did we pull a Final Fantasy 1.0 and we are in a bad spot right now from top to bottom? That is a scary question.
16:48
G.G.: You shouldn't have to play 40+ hours of a game to then figure out if I like this or not.
M.B.: You are absolutely right. It needs to punch you in the face and grab you and hold you and want to make you play more.
17:54
M.B.: There we go, buzz words that are recurring over and over and over: Generic, boring, doesn't grab you, not open world, not quite Elder Scrolls.
18:56
G.G.: Take the NDA off. Take the NDA off.
M.B.: They have to. They have to. That is the only move you make right now. It’s the only thing that can help you, it certainly isn't going to hurt you any more than the information that is already out there.
G.G.: What about if the game is really plagued with problems? Do you still launch it?
19:21
G.G.: The press thing is not working.
19:32
M.B.: Unless the final decision you [Zenimax] come to is, we are in a really really bad spot guys and we need to rethink some things... unless that is the final decision you do not circle the wagon to shut everything down [shut the media out completely due to the "mostly" negative impressions].
21:03
M.B.: The best that I can find is neutral with references to "We really think this will do well for console players" and because it works well with a controller. When the press NDA drops and there is an article that focuses on how good the controller is... you are in trouble. That is not good.
24:41
M.B.: Everybody seems to be bandwagoning that it’s bad. I wish I could agree with that statement... unfortunately all these reviews that we are seeing come out today really... they hit the internet at almost at the same exact same time. They all got notification of this is the time you are allowed to post your stuff, this is when your press NDA falls, all of these things [press impressions] went out roughly within the span of an hour or two.
26:19
M.B.: All of us probably expected a bit more of an Elder Scrolls MMO and right now it seems like from all of these reviews, it’s just an average run-of-the-mill fantasy MMO.
How can it be a conspiracy if anyone who wants to try the beta just has to sign up for it, or go to the Curse website and grab one of the half million keys sitting there? That's Open Beta in all but name.
Comments
curse still has free keys -- see the beta for yourself
http://www.curse.com/betas/teso-beta-key-giveaway
EQ2 fan sites
"By all means, reach for the stars but you need to build the spaceship first"
It is difficult to have faith in someone, who has no faith in himself!
This is in such a stark contrast with the open policy of Everquest Landmark... Sigh. I don't think ESO has so much to hide, actually. But I am really tired about companies with that "hush hush let the players not debate about the game" approach. I PROFOUNDLY hate it when companies try to quell any discussion. It brings back BAD SWTOR memories when Bioware tried to kill every possible critical debate from the fans and players. That never bodes well.
And no, that is no conspiracy. I am in beta. I am not saying anything about the game, but an open debate would help.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Here's my opinion on the matter: Who gives a shit? As long as I can get into beta and see the game for myself, I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about it. If I like the game, I'll subscribe. Period. And getting into beta in this game isn't exactly difficult to do. If I like the game or don't like the game, what do I care if someone else does or doesn't? Why does their opinion matter to me?
Most of the people who have a problem with the NDA thing are self-important blowhards who simply want to be the first guy to start a thread with their "review" of the game, or make a youtube stream/video so they can pat themselves on the back. If anyone out there is concerned that ESO is "hiding" anything, go get a freakin' key and play. It isn't hard to do.
1. Yes they can and more than likely will hold the NDA as long as they can.
2. I guess FFXIV was the closest yet did nothing to really stop the leaks.
3. Odd? of course its odd but that doesn't mean unexpected, they have been in damage control mode since last years PAX.
The thing about their beta that I don't like is that they are just weekends for most testers and that the full beta has few people in it. This means that most content is only being tested by a few while they use everyone else to perfect the start of the game (as most of the weekend betas have been limited to lvl 15-20) and the PvP end game zone.
This means the bulk of the PvE is only being tested by a few so prepare for a game with a ton of flaws that will receive a lot of overhauls as more and more people get into the majority of the game. There has been so much derp surrounding this game I am in perpetual shock that Firor somehow managed to talk a corporation into giving him this IP and that much money.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Do you mean Skyrim?
Whoa Angry Much? o.0
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Skyrim + Morrowind= Skywind. At least I think that's what he was getting at. Anyway, OF COURSE he's going to have more immersion playing a SPRPG vs. an MMORPG. When has that ever not been the case?
Not at all. I'm simply saying that if it's easy to get into a beta, why not get into it and try it out for yourself? As long as the beta is free, you've got all the resources to make an informed decision right at your fingertips. And you've got the most important bit of info of all: Your own opinion, since that's what matters. Do YOU like the game?
So who really gives a crap if other people can't tell you about it? Like I said, I think most people who want the NDA pulled simply fancy themselves some kind of MMO connoisseur whose opinion is to be treasured by others. And the fact they can't talk about everything and persuade/dissuade people from trying the game for themselves.
I guess there are some people who give a decent representation of a game by just presenting facts regarding game systems, gameplay, and the nuts/bolts of how the game works. And they do this simply to inform people of the broad view of the game. Objective and without judgment. But how many of these types of gamer "reviews" do we really see? Very, very few. Most people simply want to tell you why THEY did or didn't like a game, and therefore, why YOU should like or dislike the game. As if their opinion actually mattered.
Here's how a proper review of a game should go. I'm in the Wildstar beta. So I'm qualified to tell you a bit about the game. Here is my review:
Sign up for their beta and try it yourself. My opinion of the game shouldn't matter to you, since I'm not the one sitting at your PC playing it.
See how easy that is? See how logical?
With sandbox MMOs.
Themeparks are shallow, some so shallow that developers think they even need to create pride for you. This is something themepark players cant understand.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
wait, using common sense?
Making an effort? The devil you say!
Since they are going to be having more and larger betas, and if the recent beta is any indication, more keys for anyone who wants to "sign up" then It shouldn't be too hard to see what the game is about.
But, as is indicated earlier in the thread, they do intend to release the nda before launch so, um "problem solved"?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I thought one use for open beta was to stress test the servers. The only advantage not having open beta is to prevent cancellations of preorders or other prepurchases for this game. Seriously the more I think about it, the more this seems like SWTOR again.
That's not to say that SWTOR was a complete failure. It was just a very mediocre effort unworthy of franchise.
what your talking about no Open beta.
Isn't that when you buy the game and see if the bugs are out. Kinda what we have been doing for the last 5 years or so.
ASUS G74sx
i7 quad core
16gb ddr3 ram
3gb ram Nvidia 560M
240GB SSD & 750GB
From this point on anyone that wants in the beta can get in the beta. I am not seeing your point here. There will be larger tests and an upcoming PvP test so get in on the action and see what its all about yourself.
The aliens only do that because they like what you spill on the briefs late at night!
From TWIMMO (Comments regarding the NDA and Press Impressions)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0yl2sdR04I
TWIMMO episode 178. Anything within [] are my comments or ideas inserted to expand on what was said.
G.G. : Gary Gannon
M.B. : Mike Byrne
8:58
G.G.: They [Zenimax] can't be happy today. We have a comprehensive list of everyone out there posting stuff... I gotta say that 80% of it is... it was hard to find something very positive. We found a lot of negative, we found some neutral, and then we found IGN talked about the controller [in a positive light].
[The list he is most likely talking about is the following]
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1x9q2a/press_beta_impressions_megathread/
10:07
G.G.: You want those last sentences to be [In an ESO review] "My gameplay session flew by to the point that it felt way too short. I didn't want to get up from the computer and I can't wait to play this game again." I've not seen that. This is alarming.
10:25
M.B.: You pointed out the best ones [positive reviews] are neutral.
10:51
M.B.: Unless you are a huge fanboy/fangirl; there is not much reason to recommend it to you.
11:00
G.G.: These aren't reviews, but they are reviews. They are called first impressions, first looks, but let’s be honest... it’s a review of what they got to experience [The Press]. It’s got people talking, and not in a very good way.
11:23
G.G.: What do you do right now? If I were Zenimax I would probably lift the NDA at this point.
M.B.: I think you have to. If you are going to take all this press... you are encouraging people to now go and read about your game or see videos about your game. Drop the NDA right now and let the floodgates open so that eventually your Elder Scroll fans will put out some good stuff out there for you.
13:04
M.B.: Let the people that have participated in your beta longer than maybe the press guy who has been there for 6 hours, I mean they are admitting that these videos or write-ups: we played for 5 hours, we played for 8 hours, we got to level 6, we got to level 7... they are all admitting that they are very early in the game. Let some of the folks that are further along, that maybe opened up the first dungeon or two, let those folks that aren't media but love doing their YouTube stuff, let them do it now. You need some good lights, and right now, you aren't getting them.
14:13
G.G.: I gotta wonder what the conversation is going on right now in the office. You [Zenimax] are not happy. A good 80% of it is just [Press Review/Impressions]... is telling you that this is not very exciting. You gotta be looking at yourself... what is the problem here? Is it the early game? Did we completely just screw up? Is this not what people want? There has to be so many things going through their minds right now about the development of this game. I just can't imagine.
M.B.: Did we pull a TERA? Did we pull a Final Fantasy 1.0 and we are in a bad spot right now from top to bottom? That is a scary question.
16:48
G.G.: You shouldn't have to play 40+ hours of a game to then figure out if I like this or not.
M.B.: You are absolutely right. It needs to punch you in the face and grab you and hold you and want to make you play more.
17:54
M.B.: There we go, buzz words that are recurring over and over and over: Generic, boring, doesn't grab you, not open world, not quite Elder Scrolls.
18:56
G.G.: Take the NDA off. Take the NDA off.
M.B.: They have to. They have to. That is the only move you make right now. It’s the only thing that can help you, it certainly isn't going to hurt you any more than the information that is already out there.
G.G.: What about if the game is really plagued with problems? Do you still launch it?
19:21
G.G.: The press thing is not working.
19:32
M.B.: Unless the final decision you [Zenimax] come to is, we are in a really really bad spot guys and we need to rethink some things... unless that is the final decision you do not circle the wagon to shut everything down [shut the media out completely due to the "mostly" negative impressions].
21:03
M.B.: The best that I can find is neutral with references to "We really think this will do well for console players" and because it works well with a controller. When the press NDA drops and there is an article that focuses on how good the controller is... you are in trouble. That is not good.
24:41
M.B.: Everybody seems to be bandwagoning that it’s bad. I wish I could agree with that statement... unfortunately all these reviews that we are seeing come out today really... they hit the internet at almost at the same exact same time. They all got notification of this is the time you are allowed to post your stuff, this is when your press NDA falls, all of these things [press impressions] went out roughly within the span of an hour or two.
26:19
M.B.: All of us probably expected a bit more of an Elder Scrolls MMO and right now it seems like from all of these reviews, it’s just an average run-of-the-mill fantasy MMO.