wow on launch was better than eso is now, and I been playing wow since early betas, being european i played both korean/asian and na betas, and still was better experience than eso
saying bad press is killing the game, I would say press is too forgiving considering how much eso charges, no mmorpg charges full console price ( there REALLY WAS NO MMO that charged 60$, even worse in uk where its 50 pounds.. to normal 25-35, latest final fantasy was 15.. or 20$), + sub + cash shop
Bad press is killing the game because eso droped nda for press, so according to you zenimax should lie about everything and never drop nda until launch and trick people into buying the game...thats some good logic there
WOW was the worst mmo launch i have experienced still to this day. I couldn't even log in for the first 5 days or so.
Wow the worst? Shesh, you are really behind on 'opening day snafu' then.....Anarchy Online was horrid...SWG, the darn database melted down when you tried to create your account let alone actually logging in. WoW was actually one of the better ones...Sure no BGs but who cares about that pvp garbage
wow on launch was better than eso is now, and I been playing wow since early betas, being european i played both korean/asian and na betas, and still was better experience than eso
saying bad press is killing the game, I would say press is too forgiving considering how much eso charges, no mmorpg charges full console price ( there REALLY WAS NO MMO that charged 60$, even worse in uk where its 50 pounds.. to normal 25-35, latest final fantasy was 15.. or 20$), + sub + cash shop
Bad press is killing the game because eso droped nda for press, so according to you zenimax should lie about everything and never drop nda until launch and trick people into buying the game...thats some good logic there
WOW was the worst mmo launch i have experienced still to this day. I couldn't even log in for the first 5 days or so.
Wow the worst? Shesh, you are really behind on 'opening day snafu' then.....Anarchy Online was horrid...SWG, the darn database melted down when you tried to create your account let alone actually logging in. WoW was actually one of the better ones...Sure no BGs but who cares about that pvp garbage
I had no trouble with WoW at launch either, I usually assume people who say it was terrible were trying to play with friends on a high pop server. The worst launch I've experienced was FFXIV 1.0
1. The game is getting bad press for a reason which isn't some grand conspiracy theory deal with it (if youtubers like AJ who make or break their livelihoods on being upstanding incorruptible, corruptible means being biased by pay offs or special treatment, sources of opinions regarding a game can sync up major reviewing sites this well... you kinda figure something stinks).
2. By what I heard about the WoW launch it was due to them expecting a peak of 500k-1mil users in the first year, they got that in the first few weeks and before anyone says anything: they were basing it off of hardcopies sold prior to launch, it actually snowballed prior and after launch.
3. If anyone wants a hard launch in MMO terms I would try something like EVE's Incarna which fried certain GPUs or, if rumor is to be believed, even cause a few rigs to die, compared to that lag and not being able to log in sound pretty childish things to bitch about.
Clarification: I am by no means a WoW fanboi, just dislike this general rush of soon to be abused players to defend a game which is being called almost universally Skyrim-lite with multiplayer and a whopping barrier to entry.
wow on launch was better than eso is now, and I been playing wow since early betas, being european i played both korean/asian and na betas, and still was better experience than eso
saying bad press is killing the game, I would say press is too forgiving considering how much eso charges, no mmorpg charges full console price ( there REALLY WAS NO MMO that charged 60$, even worse in uk where its 50 pounds.. to normal 25-35, latest final fantasy was 15.. or 20$), + sub + cash shop
Bad press is killing the game because eso droped nda for press, so according to you zenimax should lie about everything and never drop nda until launch and trick people into buying the game...thats some good logic there
I am not going to answer the legion of people who assume I am a Fanboy because as stated. I probably won't buy ESO due to not having the time. However this I will answer. WOW on launch was really bad. I played wow in alpha Beta and launch and LOVED the game. But people fell through the world. You could get banned for going to old Ironforge even though it was allegedly an old part of the game or an easter egg. Why have it there if you don't want people going in? Yes you had to cliff walk and do crazy things to get there but the code for it was still in the game.The Glitches in some of the Dungeons were famous for letting you kill from beneath the world and again getting banned for doing it.
The Launch and for more than a month afterwords was disastrous by todays standards. Back then people were so excited that the reason Queues were so long were because millions wanted to play. Blizzard eventually blamed their ISP for not being able to handle the load when they had launched new servers that doubled the server count and Queues were still long.
The Endgame did indeed suck by todays standards. I was a hardcore raider and it took over a year to get my gear by going to a 40 man raid every weekend because you could only raid molten core once a week.
ESO has definitely got issues. Dropping the NDA this early was a bad move. Not so they could hide a bad game and trick anyone into anything. It was a bad idea because the game isn't finished. It being a LIVE BUILD OMG doesn't mean things cannot or will not be fixed and with good beta test feedback will be fixed. Also remember that most Betas aren't really the true test of a Game as Blizzard can attest to. Until people are out playing the world you have no idea how they will respond. Beta at best catches the large bugs but until all your servers are jam packed for weeks you won't see some issues.
I think the other issue they have is Limited Beta weekends. Quick peeks at best.
I am not saying ESO doesn't have issues. I am saying that the press can make or break a game.
Diablo 3 got slammed early on. I wonder how it is doing now. LOL
The other thing I said was the influence of gaming news sites is sadly too influential. I cannot remember the name of the Asian MMO[Edit it was Scarlet Blade] that was so sexist and in bad taste but MMORPG didn't even review it prior to release because they were a HUGE advertiser. They didn't complain about this until after the ad campaign. So I wonder if ESO was a prominent an advertiser if we would be seeing all this vitriol. In fact I don't remember many fans complaining until MMORPG did finally raise issue with it. Then they jumped on the let's kill it band wagon.
I don't post here often and do not have the time to respond to everything that has been said. But I stand by my original statement WOW if released today would have gotten SLAUGHTERED in the press instead of the rejoicing that happened because an MMO was so popular.
I am not sure if the euorpean release date was different and had different ISP's but the rest of what I said about WOW back then was probably true everywhere.
WOW was and IS a Great game. It was groundbreaking and it is the 800 pound gorilla and I suspect will continue to be so as they have a good team. But no mistake it had HUGE issues and denying that is just plain revisionist history.
wow on launch was better than eso is now, and I been playing wow since early betas, being european i played both korean/asian and na betas, and still was better experience than eso
The fan girling on that one is strong. Very strong.
Why does it matter what the press says? People who are on the fence might be swayed, but most fans of the Elder Scrolls games will buy it no matter what the press says.
I look forward to reading different opinions. There are some I agree with but even the ones I don't it gives a new slant on the game. ESO seems to grow on you. The more you play the more you learn to do. It is different from other MMOs I have played. Rushing to get to max level is missing most of the game. You need to get off the roads and explore and find new quests, caves, etc. Even the leveling system is more for actions then doing the quests.
There has been positive and negative. Most of the positive from people who got off the starter zones and most of the negative from people who haven't. Unless you're Massively and you get someone who has hated the entire Elder Scrolls series to do the review, then it's just the worst game ever.
I am so tired of the Gaming press slamming a game before the Beta is over.
Wait... wha-
The gaming press usually hype mmorpg beta to the moon and back. How can you be tired of something unusual (ESO getting bad press)?
This is a kinda strange lauch for an mmorpg. Bad press for the beta instead of the usual "awesome best game evar" and lots of whining from game fans playing the victims.
I enjoyed the game, i couldn't give a toss what the press thought. I seem to remember swtor getting glowing reports from the press and i hated that game. mmorpg.com gave swtor 8.7. They also said EQN landmark would blow my mind, it didn't.
Bad press or not, it's the Elder Scrolls. SWTOR had glaring issues and it still did well initially, why? THE IP.
People can trash the game all they want, press, individuals, whomever. If it deserves the thrashing, it should get it. If people want to spend their money on it after the fact anyway, that's their problem.
Lucky for me after years of being extremely cynical about every potential release in this genre, I was already expecting this game to be nothing above average, which is exactly what it is. Average game, decent combat, trivial content, all taking place in the Elder Scrolls universe. Ultimately a disservice to the real hardcore fans of the series, but hey, we pretty much knew it wouldn't be an Elder Scrolls game. Just in the same universe with some similar mechanics.
I for one, would have been much happier with a Skyrim multiplayer addon (in fact, I would have paid for it) and just let them work on the next ES game with integrated co-op or something like that. Would have been much more impressed with that versus a lackluster themepark MMO.
wow on launch was better than eso is now, and I been playing wow since early betas, being european i played both korean/asian and na betas, and still was better experience than eso
saying bad press is killing the game, I would say press is too forgiving considering how much eso charges, no mmorpg charges full console price ( there REALLY WAS NO MMO that charged 60$, even worse in uk where its 50 pounds.. to normal 25-35, latest final fantasy was 15.. or 20$), + sub + cash shop
Bad press is killing the game because eso droped nda for press, so according to you zenimax should lie about everything and never drop nda until launch and trick people into buying the game...thats some good logic there
How do you even compare both games? Based on numbers of bugs? Number of content? RP quality? PVP quality? Size of map? ...?
I've learned to trust my own opinion over press previews and whatnot. Not very long time ago the so-called press was overly positive about GW2 and yet, having leveled 2 chars up to 80, one of them mostly with crafting, I think it's one of the most boring MMORPGs I've ever played.
Also I don't care much about player opinions because I liked SWTOR and still think it's a solid game with it's own flaws like every MMO has. So liking or not liking a game is a purely subjective matter.
ESO also has it's flaws for sure but personally I could not care much about press previews, especially if those are based on a few hours of gameplay. Don't forget that press also sold AoC very well after playing a few hours on Tortage.
I am so tired of the Gaming press slamming a game before the Beta is over. ESO should not have dropped the NDA. It could kill a game like this especially with a subscription model.
The problem with the Press is most of them are no more qualified than I am. I have been gaming longer than most of the MMORPG staff have been alive. I could have beta-tested PONG. But they didn't let us and we were so excited by it we didn't care about the bugs.
I am also not a Elder Scrolls Fanboi. I can take it or leave it. Will I buy ESO? Probably not at the moment but not because of the press but because I cannot afford the time for another game. I play LOTRO and that's about all I have time for. But if I had the time I would play ESO.
What pisses me off is that these horrible press reviews can kill a game before it gets going. W.O.W. would die at launch if released today. 2 hour queue's. Horrible crashes and bugs that weren't fixed for months and an Endgame that required 40+ raiders with an insane lockout and Random loot drop that meant it could take more than a year to get your gear. Hardcore all the way. I loved wow. I put up with all of that because the rest of the game was awesome. But if it was released today you wouldn't hear about the awesomeness...All you would hear are the bad things. Hellgate London died because it was released way to early and they didn't have enough servers....Hmmmm Sounds familiar...
I'm Out!
Yeah I agree, with all the good things internet has brought there's also quite some not so good, and one of them is every hillbilly can make a review and influence someones opinion. Which itself really isn't a problem but people are susceptible and take stuff for granted way too quick. I don't think that is going to change.
I am so tired of the Gaming press slamming a game before the Beta is over. ESO should not have dropped the NDA. It could kill a game like this especially with a subscription model.
The problem with the Press is most of them are no more qualified than I am. I have been gaming longer than most of the MMORPG staff have been alive. I could have beta-tested PONG. But they didn't let us and we were so excited by it we didn't care about the bugs.
I am also not a Elder Scrolls Fanboi. I can take it or leave it. Will I buy ESO? Probably not at the moment but not because of the press but because I cannot afford the time for another game. I play LOTRO and that's about all I have time for. But if I had the time I would play ESO.
What pisses me off is that these horrible press reviews can kill a game before it gets going. W.O.W. would die at launch if released today. 2 hour queue's. Horrible crashes and bugs that weren't fixed for months and an Endgame that required 40+ raiders with an insane lockout and Random loot drop that meant it could take more than a year to get your gear. Hardcore all the way. I loved wow. I put up with all of that because the rest of the game was awesome. But if it was released today you wouldn't hear about the awesomeness...All you would hear are the bad things. Hellgate London died because it was released way to early and they didn't have enough servers....Hmmmm Sounds familiar...
I'm Out!
Shouldn't have dropped the NDA? So you are saying you should buy products sight unseen? And in reality a huge chunk of the game is still under NDA.
WoW actually demonstrates the benefit of being open pre-launch. WoW had a terrible, terrible launch for a lot of people. Tens of thousands of people had issues and they said so. Talk about bad press! Yet WoW didn't die. In a nutshell Blizzard said sorry; first 20 servers swamped; new servers coming by day 5, more to follow. And because there had been a 9 month long beta, with no NDA, that 600k or so people had played Blizzard were believed. There was an EU beta as well. People knew that the game was finished, solid and enjoyable. Even the first endgame content was there is people would stop to check the patch history.
So two sides to WoW: essentially a polished, finished game that had a dire launch for many people for the first 4 days on the first 20 servers. Day 5 onwards - fine on what very quickly became 200+ servers. And not having an NDA protected WoW from the bad press. And the near open beta with no NDA would do the same today.
TESO has no such protection. And for many the NDA still being largely up is a red flag. Warning Will Robinson!
What pisses me off is that these horrible press reviews can kill a game before it gets going. W.O.W. would die at launch if released today.
You're fooling nobody. The game is getting bad press, because the press is being given access to a bad game.
WoW had all of those things, because WoW was the best in its era. That era is over. The market is now saturated with MMO's, welcome to higher expectations.
ESO is, sadly, just a boring game at present that has some real problems, ranging from crap animation (seriously, why can't Bethesda handle animation after all this time?), to fundamental, structural problems like quest progression that seems stilted, linear, and rigid.
They shouldn't have lifted the press NDA if they didn't want bad press. That decision, along with the triple-dipping monetizing, makes it seem like they're just way, way too confident in themselves.
Who cares about the press. The combat animations are perfect for an ES game and the story and lore is engulfing. My issue with the game is that I find it hard to log off....have not had that issue since SWG and Vanilla/ BC WoW.
Bad press doesn't kill games, bad games do that. NDA's are fine unless a game is going for 'buy early' before disclosure. Simple answer is wait until after NDA lapses and enough reviews have got out that you can make an informed decision. A buyer has only himself to Blame if they buy a poor product before they fully understand what they are paying for (I.e end game)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Never rely on press to decide if you should play a game or not..
Lets be honest..Most Press players are awful at these games anyway..so i don't take anything they say with a grain of salt.
You're better off deciding your own opinion on a game you're going to play then worrying about baddies giving previews.
Of course, never agree on a single review. However, when the single review starts to become one of many all coming to similar conclusions with footage to back up their opinions. It becomes quite easy to come up with your own conclusion without having to spend 60-80 dollars on top of $14.99 monthly fees to find out that the product has failed to match your expectations.
I keep seeing people mention the monthly fee, Honestly people whining about that fee should quit gaming...Because clearly you're far to poor to be gaming.
Monthly fee's are of zero importance in determining if I play a game, hell even the box price doesn't determine if i'll buy the game or not..
If I enjoy the game, i'll pay the monthly fee, if not..Oh well...I got to play Beta..I know it might be my cup of tea, therefor I'll buy and play it..If i don't enjoy it, Oh well...
Comments
Wow the worst? Shesh, you are really behind on 'opening day snafu' then.....Anarchy Online was horrid...SWG, the darn database melted down when you tried to create your account let alone actually logging in. WoW was actually one of the better ones...Sure no BGs but who cares about that pvp garbage
I had no trouble with WoW at launch either, I usually assume people who say it was terrible were trying to play with friends on a high pop server. The worst launch I've experienced was FFXIV 1.0
1. The game is getting bad press for a reason which isn't some grand conspiracy theory deal with it (if youtubers like AJ who make or break their livelihoods on being upstanding incorruptible, corruptible means being biased by pay offs or special treatment, sources of opinions regarding a game can sync up major reviewing sites this well... you kinda figure something stinks).
2. By what I heard about the WoW launch it was due to them expecting a peak of 500k-1mil users in the first year, they got that in the first few weeks and before anyone says anything: they were basing it off of hardcopies sold prior to launch, it actually snowballed prior and after launch.
3. If anyone wants a hard launch in MMO terms I would try something like EVE's Incarna which fried certain GPUs or, if rumor is to be believed, even cause a few rigs to die, compared to that lag and not being able to log in sound pretty childish things to bitch about.
Clarification: I am by no means a WoW fanboi, just dislike this general rush of soon to be abused players to defend a game which is being called almost universally Skyrim-lite with multiplayer and a whopping barrier to entry.
I am not going to answer the legion of people who assume I am a Fanboy because as stated. I probably won't buy ESO due to not having the time. However this I will answer. WOW on launch was really bad. I played wow in alpha Beta and launch and LOVED the game. But people fell through the world. You could get banned for going to old Ironforge even though it was allegedly an old part of the game or an easter egg. Why have it there if you don't want people going in? Yes you had to cliff walk and do crazy things to get there but the code for it was still in the game.The Glitches in some of the Dungeons were famous for letting you kill from beneath the world and again getting banned for doing it.
The Launch and for more than a month afterwords was disastrous by todays standards. Back then people were so excited that the reason Queues were so long were because millions wanted to play. Blizzard eventually blamed their ISP for not being able to handle the load when they had launched new servers that doubled the server count and Queues were still long.
The Endgame did indeed suck by todays standards. I was a hardcore raider and it took over a year to get my gear by going to a 40 man raid every weekend because you could only raid molten core once a week.
ESO has definitely got issues. Dropping the NDA this early was a bad move. Not so they could hide a bad game and trick anyone into anything. It was a bad idea because the game isn't finished. It being a LIVE BUILD OMG doesn't mean things cannot or will not be fixed and with good beta test feedback will be fixed. Also remember that most Betas aren't really the true test of a Game as Blizzard can attest to. Until people are out playing the world you have no idea how they will respond. Beta at best catches the large bugs but until all your servers are jam packed for weeks you won't see some issues.
I think the other issue they have is Limited Beta weekends. Quick peeks at best.
I am not saying ESO doesn't have issues. I am saying that the press can make or break a game.
Diablo 3 got slammed early on. I wonder how it is doing now. LOL
The other thing I said was the influence of gaming news sites is sadly too influential. I cannot remember the name of the Asian MMO[Edit it was Scarlet Blade] that was so sexist and in bad taste but MMORPG didn't even review it prior to release because they were a HUGE advertiser. They didn't complain about this until after the ad campaign. So I wonder if ESO was a prominent an advertiser if we would be seeing all this vitriol. In fact I don't remember many fans complaining until MMORPG did finally raise issue with it. Then they jumped on the let's kill it band wagon.
I don't post here often and do not have the time to respond to everything that has been said. But I stand by my original statement WOW if released today would have gotten SLAUGHTERED in the press instead of the rejoicing that happened because an MMO was so popular.
I am not sure if the euorpean release date was different and had different ISP's but the rest of what I said about WOW back then was probably true everywhere.
WOW was and IS a Great game. It was groundbreaking and it is the 800 pound gorilla and I suspect will continue to be so as they have a good team. But no mistake it had HUGE issues and denying that is just plain revisionist history.
The fan girling on that one is strong. Very strong.
It's not only the press, it was PLAYERS playing the beta EVEN before the nda was lifted that saw clearly this game was "bad", get real.
"Bad press" is just confirming what most people impressions were playing it while it was still under nda, don't make it like it is a surprise.
Wait... wha-
The gaming press usually hype mmorpg beta to the moon and back. How can you be tired of something unusual (ESO getting bad press)?
This is a kinda strange lauch for an mmorpg. Bad press for the beta instead of the usual "awesome best game evar" and lots of whining from game fans playing the victims.
Bad press or not, it's the Elder Scrolls. SWTOR had glaring issues and it still did well initially, why? THE IP.
People can trash the game all they want, press, individuals, whomever. If it deserves the thrashing, it should get it. If people want to spend their money on it after the fact anyway, that's their problem.
Lucky for me after years of being extremely cynical about every potential release in this genre, I was already expecting this game to be nothing above average, which is exactly what it is. Average game, decent combat, trivial content, all taking place in the Elder Scrolls universe. Ultimately a disservice to the real hardcore fans of the series, but hey, we pretty much knew it wouldn't be an Elder Scrolls game. Just in the same universe with some similar mechanics.
I for one, would have been much happier with a Skyrim multiplayer addon (in fact, I would have paid for it) and just let them work on the next ES game with integrated co-op or something like that. Would have been much more impressed with that versus a lackluster themepark MMO.
How do you even compare both games? Based on numbers of bugs? Number of content? RP quality? PVP quality? Size of map? ...?
I've learned to trust my own opinion over press previews and whatnot. Not very long time ago the so-called press was overly positive about GW2 and yet, having leveled 2 chars up to 80, one of them mostly with crafting, I think it's one of the most boring MMORPGs I've ever played.
Also I don't care much about player opinions because I liked SWTOR and still think it's a solid game with it's own flaws like every MMO has. So liking or not liking a game is a purely subjective matter.
ESO also has it's flaws for sure but personally I could not care much about press previews, especially if those are based on a few hours of gameplay. Don't forget that press also sold AoC very well after playing a few hours on Tortage.
Yeah I agree, with all the good things internet has brought there's also quite some not so good, and one of them is every hillbilly can make a review and influence someones opinion. Which itself really isn't a problem but people are susceptible and take stuff for granted way too quick. I don't think that is going to change.
Shouldn't have dropped the NDA? So you are saying you should buy products sight unseen? And in reality a huge chunk of the game is still under NDA.
WoW actually demonstrates the benefit of being open pre-launch. WoW had a terrible, terrible launch for a lot of people. Tens of thousands of people had issues and they said so. Talk about bad press! Yet WoW didn't die. In a nutshell Blizzard said sorry; first 20 servers swamped; new servers coming by day 5, more to follow. And because there had been a 9 month long beta, with no NDA, that 600k or so people had played Blizzard were believed. There was an EU beta as well. People knew that the game was finished, solid and enjoyable. Even the first endgame content was there is people would stop to check the patch history.
So two sides to WoW: essentially a polished, finished game that had a dire launch for many people for the first 4 days on the first 20 servers. Day 5 onwards - fine on what very quickly became 200+ servers. And not having an NDA protected WoW from the bad press. And the near open beta with no NDA would do the same today.
TESO has no such protection. And for many the NDA still being largely up is a red flag. Warning Will Robinson!
.
You're fooling nobody. The game is getting bad press, because the press is being given access to a bad game.
WoW had all of those things, because WoW was the best in its era. That era is over. The market is now saturated with MMO's, welcome to higher expectations.
They shouldn't have lifted the press NDA if they didn't want bad press. That decision, along with the triple-dipping monetizing, makes it seem like they're just way, way too confident in themselves.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Never rely on press to decide if you should play a game or not..
Lets be honest..Most Press players are awful at these games anyway..so i don't take anything they say with a grain of salt.
You're better off deciding your own opinion on a game you're going to play then worrying about baddies giving previews.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I keep seeing people mention the monthly fee, Honestly people whining about that fee should quit gaming...Because clearly you're far to poor to be gaming.
Monthly fee's are of zero importance in determining if I play a game, hell even the box price doesn't determine if i'll buy the game or not..
If I enjoy the game, i'll pay the monthly fee, if not..Oh well...I got to play Beta..I know it might be my cup of tea, therefor I'll buy and play it..If i don't enjoy it, Oh well...