Can't belive Horizons has a forum called "Goodbyes"

scaramoosh · January 2006

http://community.istaria.com/Web/

What do they know it wont last very long or something?

It's a shame The world is very nice!

devilduck · January 2006

Goodbye forum makes no claims on the staying power of the game. Every game has churn and a goodbye forum is a way for the community members to let others know where they are going with out their posts being lost in the other forums

scaramoosh · January 2006

Yeah but all the mmorpgs i've played never have a goodbye forum :O

anarchyart · January 2006

Yeah but you've said goodbye to all of them. Maybe they should have?

Umbrood · January 2006

I would not mind if every MMO had this.

"goodbye" threads are very common and usually flamed to hell, with a place to officially do it this would not really be the case to such an extent.

We know it and they know it, people come and go in every MMO out there, why not make saying goodbye easier, it is often hard enough as it is, without all the "can I have your stuff" replies.

IAmH2Os · January 2006

I agree with the fact that every board should have one. I never mind the ones that simply say it is time for me to move on but the ones that are just asking to be flamed drive me crazy. Why I read the posts to begin with is beyond me. This way I can guarentee I never will.

Elnator · January 2006

Heh, I dunno... I think Horizons is on it's last leg... it's never recouped it's development costs... they have an additional year of operating in the red as well since they are below 10k subscribers....

It's only a matter of time before this one closes... you can't operate in the red forever.

pirrg · January 2006

im guessing its their most active forum section.

devilduck · January 2006

Originally posted by pirrg

im guessing its their most active forum section.

actually it looks like discussion and suggestions is the most active forums. Quick look at the forums shows 2 threads active since the beginning of the year in goodbyes 3 active in Hellos and lots in the other forums.

ianubisi · January 2006

Originally posted by Elnator
Heh, I dunno... I think Horizons is on it's last leg... it's never recouped it's development costs... they have an additional year of operating in the red as well since they are below 10k subscribers....It's only a matter of time before this one closes... you can't operate in the red forever.

What makes you believe they're operating in the red?

Bahk · January 2006

Originally posted by ianubisi
Originally posted by Elnator
Heh, I dunno... I think Horizons is on it's last leg... it's never recouped it's development costs... they have an additional year of operating in the red as well since they are below 10k subscribers....It's only a matter of time before this one closes... you can't operate in the red forever.

What makes you believe they're operating in the red?

Take a look at the amount of subscribers they currently have, take a look at the population of the servers. Look at their past financial history.. Horizons is on its death bed its just a matter of time before it bites the dust hard, im guessing its got about 6-8 months left in its tank. Hell the games been a disaster since release.

ianubisi · January 2006

Originally posted by Bahk

Take a look at the amount of subscribers they currently have, take a look at the population of the servers. Look at their past financial history.. Horizons is on its death bed its just a matter of time before it bites the dust hard, im guessing its got about 6-8 months left in its tank. Hell the games been a disaster since release.

They filed for bankruptcy protection and reorganized. Their past history prior to that point is moot.

Elnator · January 2006

Originally posted by ianubisi
Originally posted by Elnator
Heh, I dunno... I think Horizons is on it's last leg... it's never recouped it's development costs... they have an additional year of operating in the red as well since they are below 10k subscribers....It's only a matter of time before this one closes... you can't operate in the red forever.

What makes you believe they're operating in the red?

Simple:
Bandwidth, server maintenance and the cost of devs to maintain the game requires that an MMORPG maintain, bare absolute minimum, 10k subscribers just to break even and that won't pay for development costs that they originally incurred when making the game. Horizons hasn't had more than 10k since release (think they're down below 10k currently but MMORPGCHART hasn't released new data since July. It never reached 50k subscribers, which is the number you need to begin recouping development costs.

So: My educated guess based on the below is that they aren't going to be able to stay afloat much longer the way things stand:
1) Horizons has never recouped it's development costs
2) They have done MASSIVE re-development work for the past year and incurred further development costs
3) They are below 10k subscribers so are BARELY (if even that) breaking even on operational costs....

Saga of Ryzom may go the way of the dodo as well, they're in bankruptcy protection.

scaramoosh · January 2006

Hope they release a SDK

Umbrood · January 2006

Originally posted by Elnator

1) Horizons has never recouped it's development costs

They didnt need to, they filed for chapter 11 and wrote the whole thing of, I assume some of it followed to tulga but the majority of the investment is gone and the loosers are the original investors.

If bankruptcy works anything in the US like in sweden that means artifact sold Horizons to tulga, for what I assume was a mere fraction of the original investment, AE then settled as much as they could and dissapeared.

This means that the only cost for Tulga is the purchase of the game from AE, what that was I really have no clue but it could not have been much.

So aside from that money all Tulga needs is to cover their ongoing operation to be running in the green.

Elnator · January 2006

Originally posted by Umbrood
Originally posted by Elnator
1) Horizons has never recouped it's development costs
They didnt need to, they filed for chapter 11 and wrote the whole thing of, I assume some of it followed to tulga but the majority of the investment is gone and the loosers are the original investors.
If bankruptcy works anything in the US like in sweden that means artifact sold Horizons to tulga, for what I assume was a mere fraction of the original investment, AE then settled as much as they could and dissapeared.
This means that the only cost for Tulga is the purchase of the game from AE, what that was I really have no clue but it could not have been much.
So aside from that money all Tulga needs is to cover their ongoing operation to be running in the green.

Good points .... but....
They still don't have enough subscribers to be in the green, unless they're completely on life support with no updates, patches or fixes OR the devs are working for free or a pittance.

Tymora · January 2006

I think the "Goodbye" forum for Horizons is just an example of their very tight community. I was there for a short time, but I witnessed a close-knit community for the game. These players stick with their game, and when a friend leaves, why not say goodbye in the forum?

Umbrood · January 2006

Well I have no clue how their current operations work, or the number of subscribers.

But I assume Horizins can run in the green with far less subscribers then anyother game at the moment.

Obviously there is a limit to that to, 34 people playing will not cover much.

I quit the game not for the bugs or instability but because the EU version did not have any ingame support at ALL at launch, had it not been for that major flaw I would probably still be playing, I bloody loved it the first 2-3 months, until i needed help and there was none to have.

scaramoosh · January 2006

Shut the game down

Spend ALOT of time working on performance

Make the game free but with ads or something :P

Donations

Finduilas · January 2006

I posted part of this in another forum.

When a company files for bankcrupty, the administrators attempt to pay off debts owed to various creditors, by selling off various company assets, making people redundant, reducing costs, and if possible sell more product.

When AE filed for Chapter 11 they still owed vast amounts for the development costs AND the running costs up to July '04 and had lost their financial backers, who were also supporting GN who would have signed a contract to run the EU servers expecting to make a profit, but they TOO were making heavy losses. I suspect that when AE became Tulga many creditors were left empty handed, and p**sed, including the service providers GN were paying money to. The money GN were expecting never arrived, leaving THEM to foot the bill.

So for the last year and a half Tulga and GN and been estranged and no argeement made on the running of Unity. So Tulga is making NO money from GN run servers, only the US.

Lets pretend that through chapter 11 and some legal trickery, the Tulga buyout of AE, that ALL costs prior to the bankcrupty (27 million in development, 6 months running several servers with 3-4 times the current number of devs) were completelty wiped out, which I consider unlikely, since chapter 11 allows you to fend off creditors until some deals can be reached, even then...

Several investors would have lost money, and AE/Tulga would have gained a bad reputation, so securing more money would be difficult. Somehow they DID find someone to invest in the game, EVEN after all that crap, but how much, and for how long, we don't know.

Secondly, Tulga slashed it's costs to be more efficient, but based it's downsizing on the existing player base, and income AT the time of the merge, a year and 5 months ago. Assuming that the subs remained stable, or grew slowly, Tulga would have made a slight profit perhaps. However, EVEN after the merge subs continued to bleed away, I witnessed it first hand, seeing guidlies quit enmasse, popular players saying goodbye, and that was BEFORE EQ2 and a certain WoW came out. Then subs REALLY started to dip. So Tulga's income continued to dwindle, way below their earlier budget, but have they since cuts costs further, to accomodate this?

Tulga has tried to revamp itself, get HZ re-reviewed, and has slowly improved, Very slowly. Even the most loyal of fans have become severely dissolutioned. Over 8 months ago, DB responded to some fan questions about the financial future of HZ. He claimed he had secured enough money to rkeep HZ running for some considerable tme.

However, most telling is the fact the Tulga at no point have announced any sort of subs numbers, with signifigant increases, nor have they claimed at any point that they are now, or have at any time been, in profit. I do not think they would fail to announce something so signifigant.

As for present sub numbers. Best guess, according to those that have frequently logged in and checked, and are willing to share, 1000 -1200 on the non RP server, 250 - 500 on the RP server (one of the devs admitted that the RP server has 1 quarter of the non RP players). I think 10k is a wildly optimistic and wholly unrealistic number. I have posted these figures on the official boards and seen no denials, or contrary evidence.

Elnator · January 2006

Originally posted by Finduilas
I posted part of this in another forum.
When a company files for bankcrupty, the administrators attempt to pay off debts owed to various creditors, by selling off various company assets, making people redundant, reducing costs, and if possible sell more product.
When AE filed for Chapter 11 they still owed vast amounts for the development costs AND the running costs up to July '04 and had lost their financial backers, who were also supporting GN who would have signed a contract to run the EU servers expecting to make a profit, but they TOO were making heavy losses. I suspect that when AE became Tulga many creditors were left empty handed, and p**sed, including the service providers GN were paying money to. The money GN were expecting never arrived, leaving THEM to foot the bill.
So for the last year and a half Tulga and GN and been estranged and no argeement made on the running of Unity. So Tulga is making NO money from GN run servers, only the US.
Lets pretend that through chapter 11 and some legal trickery, the Tulga buyout of AE, that ALL costs prior to the bankcrupty (27 million in development, 6 months running several servers with 3-4 times the current number of devs) were completelty wiped out, which I consider unlikely, since chapter 11 allows you to fend off creditors until some deals can be reached, even then...
Several investors would have lost money, and AE/Tulga would have gained a bad reputation, so securing more money would be difficult. Somehow they DID find someone to invest in the game, EVEN after all that crap, but how much, and for how long, we don't know.
Secondly, Tulga slashed it's costs to be more efficient, but based it's downsizing on the existing player base, and income AT the time of the merge, a year and 5 months ago. Assuming that the subs remained stable, or grew slowly, Tulga would have made a slight profit perhaps. However, EVEN after the merge subs continued to bleed away, I witnessed it first hand, seeing guidlies quit enmasse, popular players saying goodbye, and that was BEFORE EQ2 and a certain WoW came out. Then subs REALLY started to dip. So Tulga's income continued to dwindle, way below their earlier budget, but have they since cuts costs further, to accomodate this?
Tulga has tried to revamp itself, get HZ re-reviewed, and has slowly improved, Very slowly. Even the most loyal of fans have become severely dissolutioned. Over 8 months ago, DB responded to some fan questions about the financial future of HZ. He claimed he had secured enough money to rkeep HZ running for some considerable tme.
However, most telling is the fact the Tulga at no point have announced any sort of subs numbers, with signifigant increases, nor have they claimed at any point that they are now, or have at any time been, in profit. I do not think they would fail to announce something so signifigant.
As for present sub numbers. Best guess, according to those that have frequently logged in and checked, and are willing to share, 1000 -1200 on the non RP server, 250 - 500 on the RP server (one of the devs admitted that the RP server has 1 quarter of the non RP players). I think 10k is a wildly optimistic and wholly unrealistic number. I have posted these figures on the official boards and seen no denials, or contrary evidence.

Agree 100% but since I've not witnessed the numbers 1st hand like you have I refrained from quoting lower numbers.

So we're saying HZ has fewer than 5k Subs (possibly less than that even)? There is NO WAY they are cutting a profit. Just the bandwidth to run the game, power, and maintenance costs exceed what 5k players will bring in even at $15 a month.

HZ is definitely in the red if what you say is true. SEVERELY in the red, even. You just can't cut costs enough to make 5k players profitable.

n25philly · January 2006

The is to give the illusion that there are people still playing the game

ZoeMcCloskey · January 2006

Why does their website and 14 day trial say this if there are hardly any subscriptions or players?

"The ability to dynamically add content has allowed tens of thousands of current Horizons customers to experience episodic content and massive battles like never before." Horizons official site

Isn't that false advertisment? hehe

Elnator · January 2006

Originally posted by ZoeMcCloskey
Why does their website and 14 day trial say this if there are hardly any subscriptions or players?
"The ability to dynamically add content has allowed tens of thousands of current Horizons customers to experience episodic content and massive battles like never before." Horizons official siteIsn't that false advertisment? hehe

Cuz they haven't changed it since god knows when LOL serious here! That hasn't been updated since the trial first came out like 3 months after the game released. They haven't had "tens of thousands' of current customers since over 6 months ago.

boeskyle · January 2006

Originally posted by scaramoosh

http://community.istaria.com/Web/
What do they know it wont last very long or something?

They have had a Goodbye forum since their move from the Tazoon forums. There may have been a Goodbye one there also.

And yes they are operating in the red - hard to believe their revenues have increased THAT much since their monthly financials filed while in bankruptcy (last was about Nov. 2004).

And a 30% discount on pre-paid subscriptions will hit it more.

gargantroo · January 2006

Originally posted by devilduck
Goodbye forum makes no claims on the staying power of the game. Every game has churn and a goodbye forum is a way for the community members to let others know where they are going with out their posts being lost in the other forums

Lol, so the only game that has a goodbye forum is crashing like a plane with no engine or wings... and you don't think it shows the game is crashing?

Howdy, Stranger!

Can't belive Horizons has a forum called "Goodbyes"

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Can't belive Horizons has a forum called "Goodbyes"

Comments