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Elder Scrolls Online - Crafting Overview

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  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873
    Originally posted by Ineveraskforthis
    Wonder how many major gamer reviewers actually tried their hands on crafting.

    An MMO can not just ride the success wave on basis of couple of good features. I doubt an amazing crafting system would make much difference, if it was true FFXIV 1.0 would have been a huge success. When rest of the features are 'meh' crafting alone isn't going to help.

    I am sure in the end the opinions of reviewers would have been pretty much the same because you look at the total experince of MMOS and not just one feature.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • muthaxmuthax Member UncommonPosts: 703
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by muthax
    Originally posted by Jyiiga
    Originally posted by Ineveraskforthis
    Wonder how many major gamer reviewers actually tried their hands on crafting.

    Almost none and barely any of them scratched PVP as well. Which means most of them didn't get past level 10. Hell I don't think many of them made it beyond the tutorial. Real shame.

    Most 'reviewers' got to the beta already knowing they weren't going to like it for reasons that have nothing to do with the game itself. From what I read, it seems that they played a couple of hours and like a wow clone, they got bored and then wrote those shitty reviews where the only evident thing is how clueless they are. Check for example Massively's Eliot Lefebre piece...

    BUT it's probably for the best if ignorant reviewers keep ignorant players away, for the long term. less box sales but less drama

    ..and Angry Joe, who went in armed with the whole CE Imperial angst, the subscription vs f2p, and the "It's not a carbon copy of Skyrim" schtick.  He hit all the right notes for the right people to increase his viewer count, and did a mock "bro review" with his buddies for a few minutes.  He was interesting for those people that are entertained by that sort of thing, to put it kindly.

     

    The people that are actually interested are buying the game.  I think the subscription is great as I hate the nickle and dime model of F2P and their funneling you into the Cash Shop via cheesy game mechanics.  Subs also act as a pay barrier, so those that are out now ranting and foaming will never grace the in-game community with their presence.  I like that a lot.

    We can only hope, agreed 1000 times

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    I think it still reflects poorly on ESO's part.

    Everyone who follows this game knows it has factions...how many of you knew about the crafting system? I did not.

    With a marketing budget this large that appears to be a f88k up.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • muthaxmuthax Member UncommonPosts: 703
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    I think it still reflects poorly on ESO's part.

    Everyone who follows this game knows it has factions...how many of you knew about the crafting system? I did not.

    With a marketing budget this large that appears to be a f88k up.

    I /feedbacked that and also put it in the survey. AFAIK crafting was completely reworked very recently, that could be the reason

  • oldboygameroldboygamer Member Posts: 139
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    I think it still reflects poorly on ESO's part.

    Everyone who follows this game knows it has factions...how many of you knew about the crafting system? I did not.

    With a marketing budget this large that appears to be a f88k up.

     

    Good point. The ESO homepage has very little information about anything, none on crafting. I only know about the crafting because I played the Beta. It's a bit silly for them to keep things secret that might actually help to sell the game.

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,030
    Originally posted by oldboygamer
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    I think it still reflects poorly on ESO's part.

    Everyone who follows this game knows it has factions...how many of you knew about the crafting system? I did not.

    With a marketing budget this large that appears to be a f88k up.

     

    Good point. The ESO homepage has very little information about anything, none on crafting. I only know about the crafting because I played the Beta. It's a bit silly for them to keep things secret that might actually help to sell the game.

    They have clearly stated that they do not want to reveal the mechanics behind their systems. They also clearly stated crafting is in game. That is all they want us to know until we try it. This is to generate anticipation.

     

    an·tic·i·pa·tion

    noun

    1. the action of anticipating something; expectation or prediction.

     

    This does not exist if every systems is detailed and known by the players prior to playing. There is nothing to stop this once the game is released. If this bothers you then wait a couple months after release.

     

     

     

    You stay sassy!

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by oldboygamer

     it is the first game I've come across where it's actually possible to destroy your favourite/main weapon whilst trying to improve it,

    Just as a general FYI,  this can also happen on high end items in EQ2 when you do experimentation (Added maybe 2 years ago).   The difference is that in EQ2, the success of experimentation depends how skilled you are at using the proper reactions during the crafting process - if you suck, you fail, if you're good, you can still fail, but you're more likely to succeed.    I always hated crafting in EQ2 with a passion, but ended up levelling a crafter to max level (after 9 years lol!) just to be able to do this part of it - both because it was practical and because it was nearly impossible to find people willing to do it for you.  

     

    Anyhow, tangent, but I really hope they add something like that which actually requires player skill.  The variety of items to be made seems pretty awesome in ESO, just need for there to be some actual skill involved in making them. 

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • One of the things I am curious about is whether they gate all the real good crafting components behind the typical bullshit and just use it as a way to disguise the fact that loot is just a crazy casino of rat's trapped in a skinner box  hitting a button over and over because random rewards drive mammals insane.

     

    I am pretty tired of the bait switch of

    Them: "Look see you can craft things that are just as good as any drop from this content you depise. "

    Me: "Cool, an alternate path for me to enjoy the game.  How do I get the stuff to do this?"

    Them: "Well it will be very hard and challenging."

    Me: "Ok I like a challenge.  What is it?"

    Them:"Oh its a drop from that super challening and awesome content you seem to be avoiding like the plague because you are insane enough not to like every aspect of our game design.  Its great!."

    Me: "See ya.  Don't send me any emails."

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    One of the things I am curious about is whether they gate all the real good crafting components behind the typical bullshit and just use it as a way to disguise the fact that loot is just a crazy casino of rat's trapped in a skinner box  hitting a button over and over because random rewards drive mammals insane.

     

    I am pretty tired of the bait switch of

    Them: "Look see you can craft things that are just as good as any drop from this content you depise. "

    Me: "Cool, an alternate path for me to enjoy the game.  How do I get the stuff to do this?"

    Them: "Well it will be very hard and challenging."

    Me: "Ok I like a challenge.  What is it?"

    Them:"Oh its a drop from that super challening and awesome content you seem to be avoiding like the plague because you are insane enough not to like every aspect of our game design.  Its great!."

    Me: "See ya.  Don't send me any emails."

    Why does it matter where the stuff comes from to craft items?  You're still crafting awesome items. 

     

    If the guy that's out there killing this super-challenging and awesome content then needs YOU and YOUR skills in order to make it all worthwhile, isn't that a good thing?   

     

    The great blacksmiths of the world don't spend their time slaying dragons, they spend their time crafting armor for the adventurers that have slayed dragons and obtained dragon scales.  (just generic fantasy trope)

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    One of the things I am curious about is whether they gate all the real good crafting components behind the typical bullshit and just use it as a way to disguise the fact that loot is just a crazy casino of rat's trapped in a skinner box  hitting a button over and over because random rewards drive mammals insane.

     

    I am pretty tired of the bait switch of

    Them: "Look see you can craft things that are just as good as any drop from this content you depise. "

    Me: "Cool, an alternate path for me to enjoy the game.  How do I get the stuff to do this?"

    Them: "Well it will be very hard and challenging."

    Me: "Ok I like a challenge.  What is it?"

    Them:"Oh its a drop from that super challening and awesome content you seem to be avoiding like the plague because you are insane enough not to like every aspect of our game design.  Its great!."

    Me: "See ya.  Don't send me any emails."

    Why does it matter where the stuff comes from to craft items?  You're still crafting awesome items. 

     

    If the guy that's out there killing this super-challenging and awesome content then needs YOU and YOUR skills in order to make it all worthwhile, isn't that a good thing?   

     

    The great blacksmiths of the world don't spend their time slaying dragons, they spend their time crafting armor for the adventurers that have slayed dragons and obtained dragon scales.  (just generic fantasy trope)

    A lot of these games don't wind up that way.  They either design it so you gotta get the drop or only certain guilds ever get the items and they keep all components within the guild.

    They act like they have different paths and then it just winds up being "Only raiders need apply" BS all over again.

     

    If it winds up you can make a character in TESO that has maxed all crafting skills and sucks at fighting and he can make an entire game out of that then that will be cool.

     

    But there is more to that than simply making the skills available.  There needs to be a real economy AND there needs to be a free flow of goods.

  • rygard49rygard49 Member UncommonPosts: 973
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    One of the things I am curious about is whether they gate all the real good crafting components behind the typical bullshit and just use it as a way to disguise the fact that loot is just a crazy casino of rat's trapped in a skinner box  hitting a button over and over because random rewards drive mammals insane.

     

    I am pretty tired of the bait switch of

    Them: "Look see you can craft things that are just as good as any drop from this content you depise. "

    Me: "Cool, an alternate path for me to enjoy the game.  How do I get the stuff to do this?"

    Them: "Well it will be very hard and challenging."

    Me: "Ok I like a challenge.  What is it?"

    Them:"Oh its a drop from that super challening and awesome content you seem to be avoiding like the plague because you are insane enough not to like every aspect of our game design.  Its great!."

    Me: "See ya.  Don't send me any emails."

    Why does it matter where the stuff comes from to craft items?  You're still crafting awesome items. 

     

    If the guy that's out there killing this super-challenging and awesome content then needs YOU and YOUR skills in order to make it all worthwhile, isn't that a good thing?   

     

    The great blacksmiths of the world don't spend their time slaying dragons, they spend their time crafting armor for the adventurers that have slayed dragons and obtained dragon scales.  (just generic fantasy trope)

    I think what he's saying is that he doesn't want to have to be the dragon slayer in order to get a bind on pick up recipe that let's him make the best items, as is the case in WoW (for example).

    I agree with that. If mats or recipes are BoP for the best items, I may as well not craft because I won't ever get that stuff.

  • PyatraPyatra Member Posts: 644
    Originally posted by rygard49
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    One of the things I am curious about is whether they gate all the real good crafting components behind the typical bullshit and just use it as a way to disguise the fact that loot is just a crazy casino of rat's trapped in a skinner box  hitting a button over and over because random rewards drive mammals insane.

     

    I am pretty tired of the bait switch of

    Them: "Look see you can craft things that are just as good as any drop from this content you depise. "

    Me: "Cool, an alternate path for me to enjoy the game.  How do I get the stuff to do this?"

    Them: "Well it will be very hard and challenging."

    Me: "Ok I like a challenge.  What is it?"

    Them:"Oh its a drop from that super challening and awesome content you seem to be avoiding like the plague because you are insane enough not to like every aspect of our game design.  Its great!."

    Me: "See ya.  Don't send me any emails."

    Why does it matter where the stuff comes from to craft items?  You're still crafting awesome items. 

     

    If the guy that's out there killing this super-challenging and awesome content then needs YOU and YOUR skills in order to make it all worthwhile, isn't that a good thing?   

     

    The great blacksmiths of the world don't spend their time slaying dragons, they spend their time crafting armor for the adventurers that have slayed dragons and obtained dragon scales.  (just generic fantasy trope)

    I think what he's saying is that he doesn't want to have to be the dragon slayer in order to get a bind on pick up recipe that let's him make the best items, as is the case in WoW (for example).

    I agree with that. If mats or recipes are BoP for the best items, I may as well not craft because I won't ever get that stuff.

    For a certain crafting skill it will pay off more to be an explorer than a dragon slayer.

  • Originally posted by Pyatra
    Originally posted by rygard49
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    One of the things I am curious about is whether they gate all the real good crafting components behind the typical bullshit and just use it as a way to disguise the fact that loot is just a crazy casino of rat's trapped in a skinner box  hitting a button over and over because random rewards drive mammals insane.

     

    I am pretty tired of the bait switch of

    Them: "Look see you can craft things that are just as good as any drop from this content you depise. "

    Me: "Cool, an alternate path for me to enjoy the game.  How do I get the stuff to do this?"

    Them: "Well it will be very hard and challenging."

    Me: "Ok I like a challenge.  What is it?"

    Them:"Oh its a drop from that super challening and awesome content you seem to be avoiding like the plague because you are insane enough not to like every aspect of our game design.  Its great!."

    Me: "See ya.  Don't send me any emails."

    Why does it matter where the stuff comes from to craft items?  You're still crafting awesome items. 

     

    If the guy that's out there killing this super-challenging and awesome content then needs YOU and YOUR skills in order to make it all worthwhile, isn't that a good thing?   

     

    The great blacksmiths of the world don't spend their time slaying dragons, they spend their time crafting armor for the adventurers that have slayed dragons and obtained dragon scales.  (just generic fantasy trope)

    I think what he's saying is that he doesn't want to have to be the dragon slayer in order to get a bind on pick up recipe that let's him make the best items, as is the case in WoW (for example).

    I agree with that. If mats or recipes are BoP for the best items, I may as well not craft because I won't ever get that stuff.

    For a certain crafting skill it will pay off more to be an explorer than a dragon slayer.

    But this is the thing.  Many games pull a bait and switch.  They INITIALLY wind up this way and then radically change the pattern for the top tier.

    I mean we probably won't know the true nature of TESO in this regard until a month or later after release.

     

    But we have seen this sort of stuff before and I really think people who are interested in crafting should be on top of this issues right about now.  Because its really the foundation of crafting systems.

     

    The skills and the recipes the second or third steps.  They don't mean jack diddly poop without components.  But more importantly we have seen a reliably pattern of devs radically altering the NATURE of component aquisition in the late tiers that drives many real crafters away.  Yeah sure the big guilds will organize crafting as a chore.  But the people who actually truly like or love crafting get shafted over and over by this crap.  

    Note: this is not me, I am lukewarm to doing the crafting in general.  I simply prefer a system where I can get excellent stuff from crafters rather than some bullshit "dragon casino".

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    But this is the thing.  Many games pull a bait and switch.  They INITIALLY wind up this way and then radically change the pattern for the top tier.

    I mean we probably won't know the true nature of TESO in this regard until a month or later after release.

     

    But we have seen this sort of stuff before and I really think people who are interested in crafting should be on top of this issues right about now.  Because its really the foundation of crafting systems.

     

    The skills and the recipes the second or third steps.  They don't mean jack diddly poop without components.  But more importantly we have seen a reliably pattern of devs radically altering the NATURE of component aquisition in the late tiers that drives many real crafters away.  Yeah sure the big guilds will organize crafting as a chore.  But the people who actually truly like or love crafting get shafted over and over by this crap.  

    Note: this is not me, I am lukewarm to doing the crafting in general.  I simply prefer a system where I can get excellent stuff from crafters rather than some bullshit "dragon casino".

    Well, there are really four choices:

    1.  you let crafters make the good items in the game out of random crap they harvest.  this is unfair to adventurers, who put in a lot of time and skills into obtaining items through adventure, only to find that someone that picked flowers for 10 minutes can hit 1 button and make an equivelent or better item

    2.  you only let crafters make junk items or social / appearance items.   this works by letting crafters fill a niche,but then many crafters yearn to make thigns that are actually useful for adventuring.

    3.  you let crafters make comparative items to adventuring, but you make crafting just as difficult as adventuring  (very few games have crafting that's anywhere near challenging - no game i know of requires 10 crafters working together and failling over and over again in order to create one awesome item, in most games (including ESO), crafting is very easy, you just collect or buy components and click "combine" and bam - done).

    4.  you let crafters make things that are as good as or better as those obtained in adventuring by having some of the components come from adventuring.   This allows the developers to keep crafting super-easy, yet yield great rewards because SOMEONE (not the crafter) has gone out and accomplished something challenging.  

     

    To me, option #3 would be ideal.  Make crafting difficult, give crafters really challenge and adversity, make them work together and overcome harsh obstacles,but make the final results as good as anything obtained in adventuring.

     

    In the absence of that, i'll take #4, it encourages interdependence between crafters and adventurers, which is always a great thing.  A crafter can't make the best armor without components obtained by the adventurer, while the adventurer can't get the best gear without having a crafter work on the items they've obtained.    

     

    I don't believe in any crafting system where you can make Dragon Scale armor without SOMEONE slaying a dragon (and so forth)

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • PyatraPyatra Member Posts: 644
    Originally posted by gestalt11
    Originally posted by Pyatra
    Originally posted by rygard49
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    One of the things I am curious about is whether they gate all the real good crafting components behind the typical bullshit and just use it as a way to disguise the fact that loot is just a crazy casino of rat's trapped in a skinner box  hitting a button over and over because random rewards drive mammals insane.

     

    I am pretty tired of the bait switch of

    Them: "Look see you can craft things that are just as good as any drop from this content you depise. "

    Me: "Cool, an alternate path for me to enjoy the game.  How do I get the stuff to do this?"

    Them: "Well it will be very hard and challenging."

    Me: "Ok I like a challenge.  What is it?"

    Them:"Oh its a drop from that super challening and awesome content you seem to be avoiding like the plague because you are insane enough not to like every aspect of our game design.  Its great!."

    Me: "See ya.  Don't send me any emails."

    Why does it matter where the stuff comes from to craft items?  You're still crafting awesome items. 

     

    If the guy that's out there killing this super-challenging and awesome content then needs YOU and YOUR skills in order to make it all worthwhile, isn't that a good thing?   

     

    The great blacksmiths of the world don't spend their time slaying dragons, they spend their time crafting armor for the adventurers that have slayed dragons and obtained dragon scales.  (just generic fantasy trope)

    I think what he's saying is that he doesn't want to have to be the dragon slayer in order to get a bind on pick up recipe that let's him make the best items, as is the case in WoW (for example).

    I agree with that. If mats or recipes are BoP for the best items, I may as well not craft because I won't ever get that stuff.

    For a certain crafting skill it will pay off more to be an explorer than a dragon slayer.

    But this is the thing.  Many games pull a bait and switch.  They INITIALLY wind up this way and then radically change the pattern for the top tier.

    I mean we probably won't know the true nature of TESO in this regard until a month or later after release.

     

    But we have seen this sort of stuff before and I really think people who are interested in crafting should be on top of this issues right about now.  Because its really the foundation of crafting systems.

     

    The skills and the recipes the second or third steps.  They don't mean jack diddly poop without components.  But more importantly we have seen a reliably pattern of devs radically altering the NATURE of component aquisition in the late tiers that drives many real crafters away.  Yeah sure the big guilds will organize crafting as a chore.  But the people who actually truly like or love crafting get shafted over and over by this crap.  

    Note: this is not me, I am lukewarm to doing the crafting in general.  I simply prefer a system where I can get excellent stuff from crafters rather than some bullshit "dragon casino".

    Welcome back from the PWI front, hope it wasn't too messy.  I hope you are correct in this as far as mats go, right now it's looking pretty good but apparently the high tier/level testers are spooks at this point... one day though, we will have our answer.

  • Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    But this is the thing.  Many games pull a bait and switch.  They INITIALLY wind up this way and then radically change the pattern for the top tier.

    I mean we probably won't know the true nature of TESO in this regard until a month or later after release.

     

    But we have seen this sort of stuff before and I really think people who are interested in crafting should be on top of this issues right about now.  Because its really the foundation of crafting systems.

     

    The skills and the recipes the second or third steps.  They don't mean jack diddly poop without components.  But more importantly we have seen a reliably pattern of devs radically altering the NATURE of component aquisition in the late tiers that drives many real crafters away.  Yeah sure the big guilds will organize crafting as a chore.  But the people who actually truly like or love crafting get shafted over and over by this crap.  

    Note: this is not me, I am lukewarm to doing the crafting in general.  I simply prefer a system where I can get excellent stuff from crafters rather than some bullshit "dragon casino".

    Well, there are really four choices:

    1.  you let crafters make the good items in the game out of random crap they harvest.  this is unfair to adventurers, who put in a lot of time and skills into obtaining items through adventure, only to find that someone that picked flowers for 10 minutes can hit 1 button and make an equivelent or better item

    2.  you only let crafters make junk items or social / appearance items.   this works by letting crafters fill a niche,but then many crafters yearn to make thigns that are actually useful for adventuring.

    3.  you let crafters make comparative items to adventuring, but you make crafting just as difficult as adventuring  (very few games have crafting that's anywhere near challenging - no game i know of requires 10 crafters working together and failling over and over again in order to create one awesome item, in most games (including ESO), crafting is very easy, you just collect or buy components and click "combine" and bam - done).

    4.  you let crafters make things that are as good as or better as those obtained in adventuring by having some of the components come from adventuring.   This allows the developers to keep crafting super-easy, yet yield great rewards because SOMEONE (not the crafter) has gone out and accomplished something challenging.  

     

    To me, option #3 would be ideal.  Make crafting difficult, give crafters really challenge and adversity, make them work together and overcome harsh obstacles,but make the final results as good as anything obtained in adventuring.

     

    In the absence of that, i'll take #4, it encourages interdependence between crafters and adventurers, which is always a great thing.  A crafter can't make the best armor without components obtained by the adventurer, while the adventurer can't get the best gear without having a crafter work on the items they've obtained.    

     

    I don't believe in any crafting system where you can make Dragon Scale armor without SOMEONE slaying a dragon (and so forth)

    #4 almost never truly results in any kind of real economy.  It all just gets kept in house.  

     

    There is no reason to go to a crafter in the greater economy.   You simply get stuff in house and have a few guildies max out the easy crafting.  The greater economy dies on the vine and little to know real barter/service economy forms.

     

    You are right #3 is hard although it has happened in MMOs.  But the crafting in TESO will be mostly for naught if its implements #4.  In my opinion.

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    #4 almost never truly results in any kind of real economy.  It all just gets kept in house.  

     

    There is no reason to go to a crafter in the greater economy.   You simply get stuff in house and have a few guildies max out the easy crafting.  The greater economy dies on the vine and little to know real barter/service economy forms.

     

    You are right #3 is hard although it has happened in MMOs.  But the crafting in TESO will be mostly for naught if its implements #4.  In my opinion.

    Another twist is to keep crafting simple but to make the obtainment of materials difficult.  This is what worked in SWG and Firefall (Firefall basically copies SWG's system, just a bit less complext).     By having a thousand different quality levels of a thousand different raw materials, those games forced the crafters to invest a lot of time and effort into finding and extracting the materials required for making top end items.  This often involved going to dangerous places and requiring adventurers anyway, so it was kind of the hybrid of 3 and 4.    I believe EVE is this way also, you need find and mine the top materials, which takes lots of time and requires travelling to dangerous places.    

     

    Stil, those were the best systems that I've seen so far - SWG, EVE, Firefall*  (asterisk on firefall again, just because it's basically a clone of SWG's system)

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    #4 almost never truly results in any kind of real economy.  It all just gets kept in house.  

     

    There is no reason to go to a crafter in the greater economy.   You simply get stuff in house and have a few guildies max out the easy crafting.  The greater economy dies on the vine and little to know real barter/service economy forms.

     

    You are right #3 is hard although it has happened in MMOs.  But the crafting in TESO will be mostly for naught if its implements #4.  In my opinion.

    Another twist is to keep crafting simple but to make the obtainment of materials difficult.  This is what worked in SWG and Firefall (Firefall basically copies SWG's system, just a bit less complext).     By having a thousand different quality levels of a thousand different raw materials, those games forced the crafters to invest a lot of time and effort into finding and extracting the materials required for making top end items.  This often involved going to dangerous places and requiring adventurers anyway, so it was kind of the hybrid of 3 and 4.    I believe EVE is this way also, you need find and mine the top materials, which takes lots of time and requires travelling to dangerous places.    

     

    Stil, those were the best systems that I've seen so far - SWG, EVE, Firefall*  (asterisk on firefall again, just because it's basically a clone of SWG's system)

    Yeah its probably gonna have to be something like that to be successful.  Otherwise I gotta go with what I have seen in quite a few other games.

    People will get excited for a month because there are interesting things in the production end of things.  They will realize they can never actually take advantage of it without playing the game in a way they are not interested and the entire crafting economy permanently crashes and dies.

     

    Even worse when this happens you get a lot of people going "Yep see no one is interested in crafting."  Meanwhile games like Terraria and Starbound stick around in Steam top sellers section for ridiculous amounts of time.

     

    Maybe the devs have some sort of design to make it work out decently I don't know.  Further I know no reviewer or player will be able to give a definitive answer on this for quite some time.

    But it is of foundational importance to people looking at this game believing that crafting will be a significant amount of their time/enjoyment.  Not even a majority, if you think crafting will be like 1/3 of the draw you need to start nailing down how the economy will play out.  Namely supply and demand.  

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    But it is of foundational importance to people looking at this game believing that crafting will be a significant amount of their time/enjoyment.  Not even a majority, if you think crafting will be like 1/3 of the draw you need to start nailing down how the economy will play out.  Namely supply and demand.  

    Bows don't use arrows, so there is 95% of an average game's crafting demand right there.   :P

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • brbrainerdbrbrainerd Member UncommonPosts: 19
    Yeah it was a good video.  Anyone got some tips for enchanting? I blew the last of my character's savings on disassembling vendor-bought runes and couldn't even get 1 enchant phrase.

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  • Originally posted by brbrainerd
    Yeah it was a good video.  Anyone got some tips for enchanting? I blew the last of my character's savings on disassembling vendor-bought runes and couldn't even get 1 enchant phrase.

    Make a ton of money selling pot

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    holders.

  • brbrainerdbrbrainerd Member UncommonPosts: 19
    Originally posted by gestalt11
    Originally posted by brbrainerd
    Yeah it was a good video.  Anyone got some tips for enchanting? I blew the last of my character's savings on disassembling vendor-bought runes and couldn't even get 1 enchant phrase.

    Make a ton of money selling pot

    ...

    holders.

     

    Coming soon to season 6 of Breaking Skooma...

    NEW Exclusive Gameplay and Analysis: The Elder Scrolls Online

    Check out my channel for the latest TESO news and exclusive gameplay footage.

  • Originally posted by brbrainerd
    Originally posted by gestalt11
    Originally posted by brbrainerd
    Yeah it was a good video.  Anyone got some tips for enchanting? I blew the last of my character's savings on disassembling vendor-bought runes and couldn't even get 1 enchant phrase.

    Make a ton of money selling pot

    ...

    holders.

     

    Coming soon to season 6 of Breaking Skooma...

    You can only do it if you level both alchemy and tailor.

  • oldboygameroldboygamer Member Posts: 139
    Originally posted by Tamanous
    Originally posted by oldboygamer
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    I think it still reflects poorly on ESO's part.

    Everyone who follows this game knows it has factions...how many of you knew about the crafting system? I did not.

    With a marketing budget this large that appears to be a f88k up.

     

    Good point. The ESO homepage has very little information about anything, none on crafting. I only know about the crafting because I played the Beta. It's a bit silly for them to keep things secret that might actually help to sell the game.

    They have clearly stated that they do not want to reveal the mechanics behind their systems. They also clearly stated crafting is in game. That is all they want us to know until we try it. This is to generate anticipation.

     

    an·tic·i·pa·tion

    noun

    1. the action of anticipating something; expectation or prediction.

     

    This does not exist if every systems is detailed and known by the players prior to playing. There is nothing to stop this once the game is released. If this bothers you then wait a couple months after release.

     

     

    It doesn't bother me at all, since I already know all about the crafting having played the beta. Obviously the mechanics of crafting are now out there for all to see without anyone having to try it or buy the game. Personally If I hadn't played the beta then the video on crafting would have interested me further. I just wonder why it took a reviewer to take us through it and not the publishers of ESO.

     

    By the way thanks for the English lesson, as a teacher of English I found it amusing, but can I just add that it is still possible to anticipate something even with the prior knowledge that something is going to be good or possibly bad.

     

    Anticipation doesn't always require ignorance.

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