1 It further proves Smedley can't think for himself
2 Eve online ?Seriously,a game that is about check marks in boxes ,loading a few pre-fetched add-ons and using a 1980's HUD with VERY little hands on control or skills.
Just because there is no market to compete with for Eve does not mean they have a good pvp system,the game is also blatantly supported by RMT to support ship buying and insurance.W/O rmt i hardly doubt the game would have any success,well aside from being no other game to compete with.
Smedley NEEDs to remember he is selling a RPG,NOT a FPS and he needs to grab the concept of being creative on his own.I mean even the BIGGEST selling point right now "Voxels"is NOT an Soe application.
I got really tired of how lazy the design approach was going at SOE,they dumbed down pretty much every system in the game of EQ2 just to make it easier for them to design content.Now this whole new design is one where they design VERY little.So now what? Very little designing , so put focus on pvp because guess why,pvp takes again no design effort,just flag everyone for pvp.Guess what else,OPEN pvp means no balancing no rules,again NO EFFORT lol can SOE be any more lame,they have gone down hill big time.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I've always preferred the idea of the player base having more freedom to be creative. Creativity is one of the big things that keeps things fresh and people playing while having a good experience rather than a good skinner's box experience. It bewilders me that there are so many people these days that would actually prefer to have carrot on a stick gameplay, or (fed content). That just comes too close to television to me, and I begin to see it as just mindless escapism like television rather than a potentially enjoyable hobby. To add to that, fed content (themeparks) require a regular influx of quality content to keep people entertained. That makes the game more vulnerable to providing disappointing experiences. (Re-skinned raid gear in WoW anyone?)
Just look at how much longer single player games last when they have open source development tools to allow players to mod the game and share it with the community. The ability to make changes has a huge impact, and so I think a well done sandbox does have the potential to tap into a portion of the market where it can make huge profits and become a highly successful sandbox mmo.
Only someone of with a limited or blinkered view see's PvP as the only option for player interactions.
Open world non consensual PvP? Never. Perhaps on certain servers but not the entire server structure or game.
What is more likely is to give players the tools to CHOOSE to engage in PvP. That may simply be having player controlled factions where you start off as neutral and only when another faction (NPC or player run) becomes hostile can they attack or be attacked. Or it might simply be by having area's of the world that are 'lawless' and wild and allow the players to either bring law (i.e. no PvP) or maintain the freedom to do anything including attack others. Could even be done via a system of voting for each area of the map where each player gets a vote in their territory to allow PvP (war) or not.
End of the day though the Op is constantly reaching and putting his own desires into statements that are inconclusive and ambiguous at best.
I could've said it any better myself. I love the Whopper literally all my life. It was the first fast food burger I remember eating... I used to make them years ago... but they never, ever look like the advertisements do.
Just like MMOs and their pre-release adverts and hype. Too many MMOs have been hyped into the Stratosphere only to come crashing back down, and usually some of the fallout is on our heads (the Players).
Will EQN become very much like EvE Online? Only time will tell. Perhaps that is the target mark, perhaps all it is ... is hype.
(and before anyone says I'm being negative... I just gave ol Smedley much more credit in one post than I have at any time for many many years... I am trying to be positive. I still don't trust him, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt this time.)
Have you watched 5 ten yr olds on xbox live playing minecraft? They are pvp'n.
Yep, and you know what they are having a blast while we all sit here and argue cause people are so attached and afraid of losing their pixels.
Originally posted by Byrhofen
Smedley mentions battlegrounds, storytelling tool's, music systems, auction houses, and Eve, and you read that as open world pvp?
ok.....
That's the same impression I got lol. He is definitely talking out of both sides of his mouth but then again with a genre so divided as MMORPG'S are can you really blame him? Battlegrounds....pfft.
I want Concord to come blast anyone that attempts to touch me with a pickaxe.
Believe it or not, or hate it or not, it doesn't make a difference. Balance ruins any sort of pvp in any mmo and not everyone LOOOOOOVES mmorpg PvP.
It doesn't belong unless you make it 100% skill based and you can't. Why? CC, some classes have more of it than others.
GW2 kinda did it right when they at least bumped you to max lvl and gave you cosmetic gear that you slotted with your preferred stats and even then some classes wrecked everyone, but it at least it was the closest I have ever seen in any mmo pvp.
Have you watched 5 ten yr olds on xbox live playing minecraft? They are pvp'n.
Yep, and you know what they are having a blast while we all sit here and argue cause people are so attached and afraid of losing their pixels.
Yep, you really have watched. No way in the world could you interest them in an mmorpg quest, or dungeon. Those things are way to basic, boring, and restrictive.
(and before anyone says I'm being negative... I just gave ol Smedley much more credit in one post than I have at any time for many many years... I am trying to be positive. I still don't trust him, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt this time.)
You can always trust Smedley to go where he thinks the money is. (Whether it's actually there or not is another story.)
The reason I am hopeful in this case, is that he does seem to sincerely believe in the economics of the concept. (That said, if the forecast doesn't pan out as planned, don't expect much longevity.)
Epic EvE like pvp in a fantasy setting is something I been wanting for a long time. We will see how it goes but I like what I am seeing so far about what is being said.
No one is arguing the fact that EQ may have open world PvP, but it will be a server choice. There will also be a PvE server for those of us not interested in open world PvP. Smed talked about options...those are options.
Read it and weep. I've been a broken record on this, but the writing on the wall says there's going to be open world PVP in a brilliantly executed system like Eve Online.
Smedley's blog post covers a lot, but here are some of the highlights:
"A lot has been made about how much we’re pushing this concept of “Sandbox” mmos being the future. Not a lot has been said about what that means."
"In my opinion the solution is focusing a lot more on letting players make and be content for each other. Battlegrounds are an excellent example of an Evergreen style of content where it’s the players themselves that actually create the content. ... Building systems into the games that let the players interact with each other in new and unique ways gives us the ability to watch as the players do stuff we never anticipated. We’ll see a lot more creativity in action if the players are at the center of it. Imagine an MMORPG of a massive city.. and the Rogue’s guild is entirely run by players. Where the city has an entire political system that is populated by players who were elected by the playerbase."
"There’s a great example of this today with Eve Online. It’s a brilliantly executed system where the players are pretty much in charge of the entire game. Sure there is a lot of content for players to do, but anything that’s important in the game is done by the players. This is a shining example of how this kind of system can thrive.
Our belief at SOE is that it’s smarter to head in this direction now rather than waiting."
Is anyone from the other side of the fence ready to admit this is happening?
Edit: Sorry, that was bad form. Here is the blog post:
Yes i am excited!!! There will be hackers mass aoe-ing and killing players in 1 sec or 1 shot players, they will do it again and again until the players go offline. reporting them to SOE will have no effect of whatsoever because those hackers will be paid customers and SOE don't want to lose paid customers. i am sure EQN will be as amusing as PS2 or DCUO PvP. i am so going to enjoy this.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
No one is arguing the fact that EQ may have open world PvP, but it will be a server choice. There will also be a PvE server for those of us not interested in open world PvP. Smed talked about options...those are options.
DO NOT GET YOUR HOPES UP !! at this point they will say ANYTHING because they cant be proved wrong. they will fill your head with BS all the way up untill its time to pre order, that way the sheep will come running.
Sure i really hope they can pull it off, would be great and fun. but untill i see Proof and facts i dont believe shit they say !!!
Originally posted by Fendel84M Why do PvPers have a problem with there being separate servers for open PvP and consensual PvP? Do they really just like to gank people who don't want to fight until they quit?SoE is too smart to go with forced PvP. There will be PvP servers though I am sure. I would bet good money on PvP not being forced.Even Richard Garriot did away with that in SOTA even though that was something he Kickstarted with. There's simply no reason to not make PvP optional other than to greif PvEers.
Because a PvP server system generally does not design the game around the PvP, it just gets tacked on. I don't think they will go with an open PvP game mind you, just answering your question.
I'll tell you right now, if there is no open world PvP I won't play the game long. I tried it with GW2 and it was just too boring never having any conflict. PvE is very bland gameplay in general, it is just devouring content. Zoned PvP mini battles isn't PvP either, it is some sort of alternate game. I want organic PvP where I see someone walk over the hill and I notice their guild tag and think to myself that I have to look out for that guy. I want to run into a stranger and not know what is going to happen next.
Your last sentence shows just how little you understand about what people like about PvP games, that has nothing at all to do with anything.
Originally posted by Bidwood interesting that the people denying the opening post have been silent since I posted the twitter conversation with Smedley.
this is happening, folks.
Don't get your hopes up. As others said, it may mean PvP servers, or even open world PvP with some kind of flag system, but it won't be FFA PvP for sure. It will be optional.
I actually think it will be open world pvp, but, not in EQnext.
I think it's for the new zombie apocalypse game that SOE is making. The game that he welcomed all old SWG players back for. That game is most likely what he is referring to.
EQnext is a PvE priority, but sure, pvp servers will most likely be there.
Originally posted by mari3k OPEN WORLD PVP = EPIC FAIL !!!!!
If this game should go this route it will fail so bad. Look at Darkfall nobody wants to play the crap.
Because it is a really poorly made game. I mean I don't think they should design a game around open world pvp because there are just too many people who won't buy something like that, but that doesn't mean they can't be good. WoW PvP servers have always thrived, EvE is probably the second most popular MMORPG and it has it etc.
Originally posted by mari3k OPEN WORLD PVP = EPIC FAIL !!!!!
If this game should go this route it will fail so bad. Look at Darkfall… nobody wants to play the crap.
Because it is a really poorly made game. I mean I don't think they should design a game around open world pvp because there are just too many people who won't buy something like that, but that doesn't mean they can't be good. WoW PvP servers have always thrived, EvE is probably the second most popular MMORPG and it has it etc.
WoW PvP servers thrive because there are PvE servers too.
EvE is not even close to the second most popular MMORPG, and it probably not even the 2nd most popular subscription based MMO.
The chance of SOE putting in a "PvP server" or a few that feature open wold PvP is very high, I'd say.
But that chance of SOE not putting more "PvE" type servers is so slim, it's not even worth mentioning.
But that's ok, the people that want it should be able to get what they want.
When UO: Renaissance was released in 2000, splitting the world into PvE (Trammel) and PvP (Felucca) not only did the game prosper, thrive, and begin rapidly climbing towards its eventual peak, but the developers at Origin were smart enough to leave a server, Siege Perilous, without the Trammel side and with the more "traditional" slower/limited skill gains.
Comments
1 It further proves Smedley can't think for himself
2 Eve online ?Seriously,a game that is about check marks in boxes ,loading a few pre-fetched add-ons and using a 1980's HUD with VERY little hands on control or skills.
Just because there is no market to compete with for Eve does not mean they have a good pvp system,the game is also blatantly supported by RMT to support ship buying and insurance.W/O rmt i hardly doubt the game would have any success,well aside from being no other game to compete with.
Smedley NEEDs to remember he is selling a RPG,NOT a FPS and he needs to grab the concept of being creative on his own.I mean even the BIGGEST selling point right now "Voxels"is NOT an Soe application.
I got really tired of how lazy the design approach was going at SOE,they dumbed down pretty much every system in the game of EQ2 just to make it easier for them to design content.Now this whole new design is one where they design VERY little.So now what? Very little designing , so put focus on pvp because guess why,pvp takes again no design effort,just flag everyone for pvp.Guess what else,OPEN pvp means no balancing no rules,again NO EFFORT lol can SOE be any more lame,they have gone down hill big time.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I've always preferred the idea of the player base having more freedom to be creative. Creativity is one of the big things that keeps things fresh and people playing while having a good experience rather than a good skinner's box experience. It bewilders me that there are so many people these days that would actually prefer to have carrot on a stick gameplay, or (fed content). That just comes too close to television to me, and I begin to see it as just mindless escapism like television rather than a potentially enjoyable hobby. To add to that, fed content (themeparks) require a regular influx of quality content to keep people entertained. That makes the game more vulnerable to providing disappointing experiences. (Re-skinned raid gear in WoW anyone?)
Just look at how much longer single player games last when they have open source development tools to allow players to mod the game and share it with the community. The ability to make changes has a huge impact, and so I think a well done sandbox does have the potential to tap into a portion of the market where it can make huge profits and become a highly successful sandbox mmo.
Yeah i didnt see the part about open pvp!!!
SOE would never hedge their bets on such a niche mini game like that.
Only someone of with a limited or blinkered view see's PvP as the only option for player interactions.
Open world non consensual PvP? Never. Perhaps on certain servers but not the entire server structure or game.
What is more likely is to give players the tools to CHOOSE to engage in PvP. That may simply be having player controlled factions where you start off as neutral and only when another faction (NPC or player run) becomes hostile can they attack or be attacked. Or it might simply be by having area's of the world that are 'lawless' and wild and allow the players to either bring law (i.e. no PvP) or maintain the freedom to do anything including attack others. Could even be done via a system of voting for each area of the map where each player gets a vote in their territory to allow PvP (war) or not.
End of the day though the Op is constantly reaching and putting his own desires into statements that are inconclusive and ambiguous at best.
I could've said it any better myself. I love the Whopper literally all my life. It was the first fast food burger I remember eating... I used to make them years ago... but they never, ever look like the advertisements do.
Just like MMOs and their pre-release adverts and hype. Too many MMOs have been hyped into the Stratosphere only to come crashing back down, and usually some of the fallout is on our heads (the Players).
Will EQN become very much like EvE Online? Only time will tell. Perhaps that is the target mark, perhaps all it is ... is hype.
(and before anyone says I'm being negative... I just gave ol Smedley much more credit in one post than I have at any time for many many years... I am trying to be positive. I still don't trust him, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt this time.)
Yep, and you know what they are having a blast while we all sit here and argue cause people are so attached and afraid of losing their pixels.
That's the same impression I got lol. He is definitely talking out of both sides of his mouth but then again with a genre so divided as MMORPG'S are can you really blame him? Battlegrounds....pfft.
I want Concord to come blast anyone that attempts to touch me with a pickaxe.
Believe it or not, or hate it or not, it doesn't make a difference. Balance ruins any sort of pvp in any mmo and not everyone LOOOOOOVES mmorpg PvP.
It doesn't belong unless you make it 100% skill based and you can't. Why? CC, some classes have more of it than others.
GW2 kinda did it right when they at least bumped you to max lvl and gave you cosmetic gear that you slotted with your preferred stats and even then some classes wrecked everyone, but it at least it was the closest I have ever seen in any mmo pvp.
Me:
@j_smedley love the blog. is SOE heading in that direction for PVP too? When will we learn more about that? Fingers crossed.
Smedley:
@sir_bidwood yes
Yep, you really have watched. No way in the world could you interest them in an mmorpg quest, or dungeon. Those things are way to basic, boring, and restrictive.
You can always trust Smedley to go where he thinks the money is. (Whether it's actually there or not is another story.)
The reason I am hopeful in this case, is that he does seem to sincerely believe in the economics of the concept. (That said, if the forecast doesn't pan out as planned, don't expect much longevity.)
this is happening, folks.
No one is arguing the fact that EQ may have open world PvP, but it will be a server choice. There will also be a PvE server for those of us not interested in open world PvP. Smed talked about options...those are options.
no this is just you making stuff up, he mentioned player built content, not open world pvp. This thread is a good example of spin though.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
This right here ^^^ Specialty Servers
DO NOT GET YOUR HOPES UP !! at this point they will say ANYTHING because they cant be proved wrong. they will fill your head with BS all the way up untill its time to pre order, that way the sheep will come running.
Sure i really hope they can pull it off, would be great and fun. but untill i see Proof and facts i dont believe shit they say !!!
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
Because a PvP server system generally does not design the game around the PvP, it just gets tacked on. I don't think they will go with an open PvP game mind you, just answering your question.
I'll tell you right now, if there is no open world PvP I won't play the game long. I tried it with GW2 and it was just too boring never having any conflict. PvE is very bland gameplay in general, it is just devouring content. Zoned PvP mini battles isn't PvP either, it is some sort of alternate game. I want organic PvP where I see someone walk over the hill and I notice their guild tag and think to myself that I have to look out for that guy. I want to run into a stranger and not know what is going to happen next.
Your last sentence shows just how little you understand about what people like about PvP games, that has nothing at all to do with anything.
OPEN WORLD PVP = EPIC FAIL !!!!!
If this game should go this route it will fail so bad. Look at Darkfall… nobody wants to play the crap.
Step in the arena and break the wall down
Don't get your hopes up. As others said, it may mean PvP servers, or even open world PvP with some kind of flag system, but it won't be FFA PvP for sure. It will be optional.
I actually think it will be open world pvp, but, not in EQnext.
I think it's for the new zombie apocalypse game that SOE is making. The game that he welcomed all old SWG players back for. That game is most likely what he is referring to.
EQnext is a PvE priority, but sure, pvp servers will most likely be there.
Because it is a really poorly made game. I mean I don't think they should design a game around open world pvp because there are just too many people who won't buy something like that, but that doesn't mean they can't be good. WoW PvP servers have always thrived, EvE is probably the second most popular MMORPG and it has it etc.
WoW PvP servers thrive because there are PvE servers too.
EvE is not even close to the second most popular MMORPG, and it probably not even the 2nd most popular subscription based MMO.
The chance of SOE putting in a "PvP server" or a few that feature open wold PvP is very high, I'd say.
But that chance of SOE not putting more "PvE" type servers is so slim, it's not even worth mentioning.
But that's ok, the people that want it should be able to get what they want.
When UO: Renaissance was released in 2000, splitting the world into PvE (Trammel) and PvP (Felucca) not only did the game prosper, thrive, and begin rapidly climbing towards its eventual peak, but the developers at Origin were smart enough to leave a server, Siege Perilous, without the Trammel side and with the more "traditional" slower/limited skill gains.