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Elikals "Elder Scrolls Online" Beta Impressions (VIDEO)
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
Ok, you did see that coming that I can't keep my trap shut, eh? ^^
Be nice. It is just my opinion, mkay? If you love ESO that way, thats quite alright.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdaqtG-irbY&feature=youtu.be
(I can post a text transcript, if someone prefers to read.)
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
Will it give you problems since your account can be seen on the screenshots?
Looking at your video I'm reminded of something I kept thinking while playing the game. The palette is so brown. Dreary. This is what many consider to be "realistic."
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Eli,
If it isn't too much trouble, I'm thinking I'd prefer the txt synopsis :-)
My only real reason is I don't/can't watch videos right now in the house... maybe in a bit, I'll hook up my wireless headset and listen but if you have a text close by it'd be nice :-)
Thanks in advance, if not no worries.
Can you type? Please and thanks if you can. And just list important points if you want.
The age of your voice mixes well with your forum avatar.
And i agree with your analyze of the state of the game... It's lacking a lot of things to make it an mmo, and it lacks almost everything that should make it an elder scrolls / skyrim game.
People saying "older" / mature people like us are hater because they easily see all the flaws of the game, anyone can easily understand in this video how disappointed you are, and so i am as disappointed as you with the state of the game.
I wrote a text and read it into a video first. But then I felt reading a written text sounded sort of dull. So I made a 2nd video which is what you see, speaking free. But I have of course the original text. Its a WALL of text.
Here goes: (whoopdydoo)
====================
Elder Scrolls Online has from the announcement on faced the question whether it can be good enough for MMO gamers AND Elder Scrolls fans, and alas the short answer is mostly, no.
Now mind ya, I am sure most of the reviews of the final release won't bash the game; it is by no means a horrible game. But it isn't really good or cool at anything either, and that is something really astounding, because essentially every Triple A MMO released in the last years has had at least a few parts which were really cool. At least in my book.
Now ESO somehow managed to make everything alright, but mediocre.
It starts with the mishmash, brown-grey toned graphics. They aren't realistic enough to shine and not cartoony enough to stand out. Both Morrowind and Skyrim had a very toned down color palette, and alas I feel like ESO just always has a grey tint over it. Only when I really cranked the saturation up, like 200%, it started to look good. I seriously hope this game gets a saturation slider. Something is just not enough with the landscapes. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but... generic would be the attribute. All seems to be good an nice, but I never had this feeling to watch an awesome landscape as I felt in LOTRO, AoC or GW2.
When I hear or read beta impressions, a lot of people who played Skyrim bemoaned that ESO wasn't enough like Skyrim the single player game. I feel somehow entirely the opposite: what bogs down ESO is IMVPO that it isn't enough like a MMO, it tries too much to be like a multiplayer variant of Elder Scrolls, and that just bugs me in so many ways.
One of the big hurdles IMO is, that the starting impression is just not good. The linear experience in the realm of Molag Bal is really just boring. You'd think escaping from a demonic realm should be exciting or nerve wrecking, only it isn't. And a boring start is never good. What ESO is definitely missing is the sense of real drama. I mean, there is a world war going on and a giant demon lord invades the world. Yet somehow, the drama and the war always seems to be somewhere else, and you somehow always arrive after the event and you can kill a few leftover dudes. In very few phasing events I was able to feel a real dramatic invasion feeling. But overall a lot of the huge landscapes are just too empty, too less filled with stuff, unlike as a positive example the Rift invasions. They gave Rift the feeling that there is really serious stuff going on, when multiple fire realm demons invaded the peaceful villages, THAT felt dramatic. But in ESO it is strangely absent, like always just in hearsay distance.
Like SWTOR, ESO has a sort of personal story, not bound to class, but still personal, and I found the stories and quests really interesting. I know a lot thought they were cliche or cheesy, but then almost all fantasy RPG stories are. If you really listen to the stories, read the lore books and letters you find, follow the details of the stories, you get a big interesting carpet of story woven in this game. Maybe not all factions are interesting the same way, but at least Dominion and Alliance were cool stories to follow.
The animations did improve so far, but I guess with any Elder Scrolls game you know combat never is the strong side of it. I am alas quite spoilt by the really top notch animations I am used from GW2, and ESO's combat animation just look cheap. A bit like from one or two generations ago, which is the feeling I have about a lot of things in ESO. One thing that REALLY aggravated me: you can't group in story instances. And sorry, that is seriously crap and a killer criterion! Even SWTOR with it's tons of very personal story allowed you to call for help and bring in friends if you didn't want to do the story alone or if you just were overpowered by the bosses. And sorry, but it just beats the point of a MMO if you do a lot of story and don't allow you to bring your friends into it! Some people just may have difficulties to finish those tough bosses and then what? I know all too well from The Secret World how horrible I felt being forced to do tough instances alone and having just to skip content. It seriously angers me that ESO didn't learn anything here and essentially undermines the very idea of an Online Game. Bosses tend to be a bit too console-ish for my taste. Do this now, react now here... it has trickled into MMOs recently, but usually such boss reaction games are restricted to Raids. I just prefer to bash down my story bosses and not spent too much thought and planning and 20 times of re-trying instances over and and over and then being forced to level elsewhere and come back 5 levels later. (Not that leveling elsewhere is even possible...)
Also, alas ESO lacks a lot of conveniences which make a MMO more accessible, especially since you are supposed to play it with friends. Why are there no chat bubbles as option to make coordination in groups or in PVP easier? It is just so much easier in GW2's open PVP when you can SEE the chat calls and commands as a bubble in your vicinity, because you can then SEE when someone yells a warning or a command. Otherwise in chat you never know: was the call “INCOMING” from someone close by or someone on the other part of the map? It just takes longer to figure and in PVP seconds can be decisive, not to speak of the lost RP chances. Same goes with a radar or minimap. I just at some times was opening the map every 5 seconds, because most of the landscapes are just so generic I get constantly lost, and the ES style compass just isn't enough. It's enough in a single player game where you are alone and at leisure, but when you plan to go with friends or when you seek some stuff, the lack of a radar just slows down needlessly.
One of those things that also really grinds my gears is how ESO flipped back in the area of chests, harvesting and some quests objectives. Most of that stuff is gone when someone takes it. So if you harvest iron or if you find a chest, you take it away and the next one doesn't have it. Even worse, some quest objectives are gone, taken by fellow players. Sorry, that doesn't make the game any more fun, it makes players competing needlessly and is just old school that rightfully was eliminated years ago! We so didn't need to have THAT back. Fortunately you can at least help other players with the mobs without stealing XP or loot. But I wonder why this idea was not implemented with the chests and harvesting.
At the moment the prices are also out of whack. You get maybe 30 or 50g for a HUGE hour long quest, mobs drop 1g and maybe a trash item which sells for 5g, but ONE piece of armor easily costs 1000g. So if you are not into crafting, you will spent a LOT of time in the game running around in rags, and sorry Zenimax, but NOT everyone likes to craft. The reward part in adventuring is SORELY lacking, so often it barely covers the cost for repair and travel. I never felt the rewards were awesome or in any relation to the heroics I just did. I saved the King of the realm but I got 80g for it. And why did we fall back to the First Gen quest rewards where you have only ONE reward? What good is it, if you get a 2handed Sword and you are a mage or a rogue? Didn't MMOs evolve past this idea to drop some useless stuff as quest rewards on you? I seriously think ESO should add CHOICES, something for every class to chose either a weapon or a piece of armor or what.
Without tab targeting grouping is especially difficult. You can not highlight any mob, so coordinating group attacks is virtually impossible. Without tab targeting it is just a huge, chaotic zerg. Just watch the infamous video from Quake Con, Zenimax showed. Everyone just hacks blindly on stuff ahead of him. There are so far no name tags either, so it takes needlessly long time to find NPCs, vendors, friends; you often can't differ NPCs from players asf.
While of the strong sides is certainly that you can mix all sort of styles, heavy armor mage or casting warrior, there is little in terms of classic MMO achievements for the MMO achiever. No faction points to make, no individual armors, no dyes to give personal colors; and the only way to level are the quests. If you for any reason do not want cumbersome story quests, you can't really just grind mobs, because that offers close to no XP. So the achiever gamer is essentially left in the rain. Even exploring is not really doing anything aside from finding nice scenery or one of the difficult to unlock chests. Now since the stories are basically THE selling point, if you don't like to listen to long stories and you don't want to memorize all the pieces of a story, you will have quite a difficult time. Often quests even require you to actually remember what was said and what the story is about, since the quest journal doesn't always give it all away. So if you stayed away a long time, or if you practice a lot of Alliance hopping (like me), it can be VERY difficult to recall what all you began was actually about.
I just read a moment ago, there will be no Auction House either, just a Guild store. So if you are not in a huge guild, you are screwed. It is just so laughable, along with the lack of minimap and name tags and loot stealing. Just like “We never will have first person, it is not intended” and they had to bent to player will, they WILL have an Auction House, they WILL have nametags and eventually also will end loot stealing; they just don't know it yet. And that is the tragic thing about most stuff: It will come anyway, because the vast majority of MMO gamers will call out for it until it comes. It has been so in every single MMO. Trying to go too “special” and niche-like always tanked, the companies always had to bent to the will of their players, but they usually delayed out of stubbornness until most had gone and it was too late. No Auction House... good riddance...
Alas, PVP or AvAvA as ESO calls it, is not saving grace for the game either. The area for the open PVP war is GIANT. Even with teleportation between the keeps, I wonder who ever is supposed to fill those zones? There are no commander tags as we know from GW2, so how can anyone reasonably lead a group? Or why didn't they chose optional auto-grouping as in Rift? Without any radar or minimap they only way to know where the combat is are crossed swords on the full screen map and the people you see in the landscape, and sorry that is just not enough by far! It just made PVP as I experienced an uncoordinated mess! I am sorry to say it so blunt. In those WAY too big maps without any sort of coordinating helpers like minimap, raid groups and commander tags, I just don't see PVP can in this shape be attractive to many. GW2's RvR here is a good example how to make PVP interesting for more than just PVP geeks. The map is manageable in size and you get enough helper features. And for GOODNESS SAKE, do away with the demand for soul gems to resurrect fellow players in PVP! NOBODY will waste away their hard to come by money to rez you, and being forced to run ALL back over the map if you die in PVP despite your team won or your team is still fighting is a BAD idea. Open PVP sorely needs a normal player rez ability every player can use for free. After the 3rd or 4th need to run all over the map a lot of people will just leave PVP. The need for soulgems to rez HAS to go at least in PVP. It added so much social feeling to GW2 that everyone can rez anyone else all the time.
Now the problem is, as I see it, mainly that Zenimax tried to go back to a very early sort of MMO gaming, much is harking back to the Everquest Days; the slow leveling, the cheap ass rewards, the super tough bosses, but that's just a few levels too much old school for my taste. ESO has ignored way too many MMO standards of our days. Small optional helpers that allow you to focus on playing with other people. Coordinating that is difficult enough, but without many of these helper functions, it is just often a chore. And Zenimax REALLY has to do away the enforced soloing in your instances. It doesn't make sense to make a MMO and the force you so much to do stuff alone. In my book ESO has tried way too much to be like Skyrim and way too less to be like a MMO. You don't have to copy everything, but ignoring so many MMO standards of today just isn't a very good idea. Alas, with many things Zenimax so far doesn't seem very appreciating to rethink their decisions and that is a bad deja vu towards SWTOR and Bioware who also always thought they know it all so much better. What is there is an ok MMO if they work hard on the Mmo part, but in no way I can see this game succeed as monthly fee game. Not in 2014. There is just not enough fun and coolness in it, alas. It is hard to say, because I so wanted an ES games to be cool, to be something to show your friends and brag with. Like SWTOR they entirely hinged it on the IP to attract people, and it surely will; but if they stay is something I highly doubt. It would be an ok F2P MMO, but in no way this is worth 15 bucks a month.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I personally outright disliked the idea to make "Skyim as MMO". ES worked well specifically as a single player game for many reasons. Leisure, exploring asf. A tons of stuff that simply do not transfer well in a setting with many players.
I thought it was a bad idea to try to make an in between. They either should have not done it, or make a "normal" MMo, maybe with some specialities just set in the ES universe of Tamriel.
Lol, so I sound like Radagast? ^^ Well, since I like Radagast I live with that. XD
I wasn't sure if using screenshots distracts from the voice. The original vid had of course me speaking. Hmm.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Yeah ^^ i thought you were almost sounding like him.
Anyway.... People have really low standard of quality to accept this wearing the elders scrolls name.
They jump on it because it's borrowing a brand, and by any means, the soul of it.
You seem very passionnate about elder scrolls and very passionnate about every flaw of the game in your eyes, and it's well explained overall, it just pains me because you actually had to go through "this" travesty of an elder scrolls, in your lifetime, and would expect much better, much better quality control for an elder scrolls game, especially from bethesda at least, as they are like, the best solo rpg / sandbox maker on pc.
And i must admit, i jumped on it because it was an "mmo" too, at first, who wouldn't "try" it at least ? But i'm not as desperate as everyone being in denial about it being very cheaply made.
I hold to this general statement:
"Any game feature that needs the word 'force' in it to describe it accurately is designed wrong/poorly ".
Sometimes as a dev you are forced to force things, nothing is ideal. But we need to admit when we are doing things poorly and why or we will never do things well.
I disagree with almost everything you said.
I thought they made a perfect blend in making ESO.
I hate chat bubbles and am very happy they don't have them. I think they look tacky and detract from a game.
It seems like you need excessive guidance in PvP and PvE. With getting lost and needing commander tags. I still don't see why that's necessary. It shows you where the battles are happening on the map.
Quest items were quite good, so I don't understand how you were running around in rags.
Overall it seems like the game isn't for you, which is fine. I hope you find the game you're looking for.
I watched half of your video review so far, maybe I will post about some points later. But I have the feeling that you are not really into The Elder Scrolls game in general and you want more mmo feel instead of "Elder Scrolls" ?
This is also noticeable when you say, not everyone wants to follow a story or not everyone wants to craft. Iam sorry but this game is based on the Elders Scrolls Games. Iam not sure what do you expect ? If this game would be not similar like the Elder Scrolls it would not be special but just another mmo.
Some points so far you mention:
* missing Soul and you dont know what is the reason
Since we can only talk about the low level areas the game impressions are limited.
I think one of the points why you miss some soul is that the questing is too easy. The quest markings sends you into a "Tunnel Vision Questing" instead the need to explore the game. In another part of the video you want an aditional Radar/mini map, I think you cripple the soul of the game even more with your demand.
* Dungeons - boss fights forced alone ?
I know that you can actually party in dungeons, but there were bugs the last time I tried and yes these dungeons are followed by a quest. You could party but the players stayed invisible in the dungeon. What I rather did miss are LFG options, not sure if they exist in form of a chat or search function.
* Too much Single Player
This is one point I agree partially, since again we have seen only the lower level areas. So its a bit of a speculation. The first group quests which I saw were around lvl 9-10. In the levels before everyone did actually their quests alone, so the feeling was more you are doing the game alone. Nobody knows how higher lvl area and questing looks like so this is a point which Iam unsure about due to missing informations.
* Nameplates
I have different kind of infos here, some say they will be activated and are already ingame. Iam not sure here what is going on. Nameplates should be toggle able, I would not love to see always nameplates especially in pvp. A toggleable option would be nice.
* Mini-Map missing - constantly lost
I have exactly the different opinion here, the questing is actually tooo easy in this game and it is one of my main complains. It is a game braeker for me in pve. I did at once lowered my view on the game for 50% in the first beta, in the 2nd the pvp actually did boost my view against into a more positive direction.
With all the quest markings I feel like playing "EOS questing on Rails".
I was never lost in this game because it is too easy. I play Skyrim often without any quest markings and compass aswell with survival mods. I was used to WoW gameplay without any quest marking at all, it was great since you you did explore the world and alone for the quest it was needed besides many other things.
* No Reason To Explore
If questing would be less easy you would actually look for quest objectives and automatically explore the world. World of Warcraft is probably the best example, the game had no quest markings at all. But since the whole questing is with voice they probably did decide to go with the quests markings.
What is for you a reason to explore in a game ?
* No Auction House
Yes, people are used to an Auction House in the last years. Iam sure they have their reasons why they did not implement a global world AH. Eve online does not has this aswell btw.
Reasons could be:
* megaserver
* botting
* gold/gold seller
* market manipulation and destroying of economics
* exploiter
* everyone can and will craft in this game, so for what you need an auction house. The game will have not such an "Item Greed" like in other mmos. You see that already that quest rewards are not "amazing or something else just build around your own player greed". Iam actually partially happy with that since most mmos are ridicolous build around palyer greed, yeah not only companies are greedy.
* Stealing
I have a different view on this.
If there is an iron mine in front of you and somebody else takes it, well then you was just not quick enough.
The thing is if something spawns in this game, a chest or ressources and you actually take it, it gives you the feel that you achieved something. Social does not mean that this should be only reserved for you, social would mean it should be shared with others.
* Quest Rewards
This is actually going the way of the Elder Scrolls Series, quest rewards are not that big like games for Power Gamers.
I agree and disagree with some things. The things I disagreed with you are very minor though and more of a personal opinion and not overly dramatic to the over game design.
I also agree with what someone said previously. You were very kind in your opinions and could have been a lot more critical, which I think was 'giving' on your part. There are so many things in this game you could have ripped a part with 'proof' from previous released MMORPG's and ES titles that goes beyond personal opinion. I'm sure you were trying to keep things less argumentative and more opinionated though, to avoid the pitchforks and fire from the fanboys.
The overall consensus is that the story of ESO is good. So people will have at least that to fall back on. It's also the only reason I'm still interested in this title. Not interested enough in it to pay money, but interested in it enough to wait for F2P and try it out.
As an "older" player, i can safely say you are wrong. Everyone has their opinions, just some of us dont care about yours. What people like are extremely subjective, you are never going to please everyone. Age has nothing to do with it.
Your comments regarding "group play" aspects such as agro management, group fights being a chatoic dps spam fest, inability to " get a mob off of yourself" and tanks inability to pull mobs off of you, make me believe that you didn't actually play with groups. Heck, I can't find any reason to believe that you actually played this game - It sounds as your impression is based off other peoples videos and "impressions". That is just one example - many of the statements are just plain inaccurate.
Most of the other stuff mentioned/complaints is "fluff". The foundation is there - did you ever play any game at release?
Everyone is entitled to an "impression" thought, right!?!
At this point, I'm honestly not sure if I'm buying this game. Everyone is giving it such mixed reviews and I'm not sure which way. I watch people like Eli and DM because I can generally get a feel for the game and make a decision. Will I get my money out of it is ultimately the question I am left answering. I don't think any current MMO's will be something that sticks for longer than a few months at most. They just aren't designed that way. Anymore, they're all fire and forget unless you're a hardcore Raider (which I am not) or a PvPer (which I am not).
Most of what Eli points out are things that either aren't fixable or are purposely designed that way. Sometimes those designs are for the best, other times they cause a drag on the game. I'm wondering with what I hear about the first 8 levels or so if the later isn't more truthful.
While Elikal is entitled to his "review" (or is it impression, confused), as someone who has been in about 4 of the ESO betas, I can honestly say he touches on some valid points, but alot of what he says are not factual (cant change agro? really?). Expressing my freedom of speech (which he is fond of), he is overly negative of every game he tries.
MY best advice to people who cannot decide one way or another, is to wait to see more reviews (such as this one...which they actually give VERY good information, and accurate), weigh the pros and cons...and see if it appeals to you. Barring that, wait for a free trial, open beta, etc and make your own informed decision.
I read the foundry one earlier. My problem is that if I wait.. I don't get any race on any faction. The CE gurantee's I get the stupid Imperial (which I play in 2/3's of my games, with Argonian as the other 1/3).
I've been outspoken about the faction thing from the get-go as I feel like it should naturally come about via a CHOSEN quest line where you side with whomever works the best.
Ok that is understandable. Still got about 6 weeks (?) till launch....research and read as much as you can until then
cheers.
why would you bother with a transcript this guy says so much wrong information its not even funny he doesn't have a grasp of how things properly work such as soul gems and what not.....all he does is essentially blabber on and stamble complaining about no mini map
i saved you the trouble of a transcript
Because he is a member of this community and not just someone who reviews games for clicks on youtube.
Because unlike you, I have respect for others that have been here for a long time. You've got enough posts of be a lurker whereas Elikal is a regular. Have a little respect for others OPINIONS (because that's ultimately what reviews are). Since you didn't retort with actual criticisms, I can only wonder why not? Surely there must be specific points you can hit on.
Here is an excellent review of the tank and agro system using a dragonknight, that covers alot of aspects and criticism (both positive and negative)....something the op was wrong on. Most of it is spot on as I played a 2h dragon knight in the 2nd beta i was in.
Edit for formatting
We have not reached a level of technology where it is reasonable to expect an MMO to ever hold a candle to a single player game. The whole point is that you sacrifice quality to be able to play with your friends and thousands of other players.
I don't think anyone thinks this game is on par with other TES games (well, actually, I find the game more entertaining than vanilla TES games, buggy and incomplete things they are--but it certainly cannot compete with fully modded TES games, and no MMO will for years to come.)