Its more than that, this project getting funded well tells publishers that this type of audience still exists and is worthy of making games for.
Not to mention EQ basically started the 3D mmo genre, and Vanguard had excellent game design and systems despite the bad business decisions and technical issues. It still has a better crafting game than practically any mmo on the market and the Diplomacy system and world size are unparalleled.
Thing about the big picture of what this game represents to the Industry as a WHOLE.
Old schoolers its time to put our money where our mouths are. Nobody is going to make this type of game where it will garner the type of attention due to the name behind it.
If this project fails the industry will chalk this up to these type of games not being wanted.
While I want good games and titles like Pantheon here to get a shot on the market, I honestly feel that some are blowing the industry effects of this game getting made or not out of proportion. The old school market simply isn't as big as the casual market and make it or fail Pantheon is unlikely to change who big publishers choose to make and market games for and to. Until something can compete with WOW it's irrelevant to big money interests and they have shown it through the years with clone after clone and attempts at old franchise reboots instead of new IPs. They want franchises and big hits, forget the small fry because even a franchise flop will rake in more cash than a small time hit. Pantheon is small fry.
Frankly, that's why Kick Starter exists and is needed. Kick Starter allows for all of these smaller budget niche titles to get made and played where they otherwise would not exist because while they can be profitable games they simply aren't in the league of something like WOW, COD X, HALO 5, Half Life X, or BF #X with their rabid followings and focus group driven development.
Its more than that, this project getting funded well tells publishers that this type of audience still exists and is worthy of making games for.
Not to mention EQ basically started the 3D mmo genre, and Vanguard had excellent game design and systems despite the bad business decisions and technical issues. It still has a better crafting game than practically any mmo on the market and the Diplomacy system and world size are unparalleled.
Thing about the big picture of what this game represents to the Industry as a WHOLE.
Old schoolers its time to put our money where our mouths are. Nobody is going to make this type of game where it will garner the type of attention due to the name behind it.
If this project fails the industry will chalk this up to these type of games not being wanted.
And then these type of games will not be made.
I gotta wait 'til I get paid, but I'm definitely backing it.
I really like what I've seen so far. Brad and co. seem to really be embracing more of what made the genre special to begin with.
He said a few things that were immensely important to me.. For one, their reason for going to Kickstarter because they're targeting a specific portion of the community; not trying to make it "everything for everybody". That's so key right there. It's what developers have been failing to do, instead casting that biggest net, trying to get the biggest possible audience... and leaving what I have no doubt is a sizable portion of the MMO community sitting on the sidelines.
Another thing he said that really got my explorer's juices flowing... Massive open world dungeons. Open world. Open freaking world. Not instanced and linear. Not "private". Open World and massive. How I love those words.
One thing I haven't seen/heard yet... Is there going to be a lot of guidance/helpers/quest markers, etc? I seriously hope not. It would be nice to actually be dealt back into the adventure again, and be left to find and figure things out for myself.
This really is sounding exactly like Vanguard all over again. Except now it's "this is the real EverQuest Next" where Vanguard was supposed to be the real EverQuest 2.
im sorry if i offend anyone of you but this carebare talk all time...if it was it by you guys, we would still have Stone Age in this time...
What im saying is: move on.
Ask yourself: If everything was better back then, then why did it improve? and you not?
Pretty stupid response. By your logic a 2014 Mitsubishi Lancer is much better then a 69 Mustang because it has power steering and an ipod player. Well I'm sorry sir but it is not!
Newer is not always better, that's what corporations want you to think so you'll keep dropping cash. In fact, even MMORPG statistics disprove your statement completely. WoW is still by far the most profitable and played MMORPG in the world. It also happens to be exactly 10 years old.......
I haven't seen anything of the game so I wouldn't know but I doubt a development team of 10 are going to be able to churn out anything particularly interesting
im sorry if i offend anyone of you but this carebare talk all time...if it was it by you guys, we would still have Stone Age in this time...
What im saying is: move on.
Ask yourself: If everything was better back then, then why did it improve? and you not?
Pretty stupid response. By your logic a 2014 Mitsubishi Lancer is much better then a 69 Mustang because it has power steering and an ipod player. Well I'm sorry sir but it is not!
Newer is not always better, that's what corporations want you to think so you'll keep dropping cash. In fact, even MMORPG statistics disprove your statement completely. WoW is still by far the most profitable and played MMORPG in the world. It also happens to be exactly 10 years old.......
A 2014 Mitusbishi Lancer is by todays needs really alot better then a 69 Mustang. Time has changed, so the needs. A Mitsubishi can bring you from A to B with 50% less fuel and 100% more comfort. Today everything is about efficiency and sustainability. Sure if you have the money, you can buy and keep your Mustang with a 25l /100km.
Old school mmos are not the sustainable in this modern time. We hated grinders (most of us) back then- they changed it - so why go back again?
And WoW has just his bleeding fanbase left. WoW took over with a huge marketing campaing- like no other MMO did until this day. You need to understand why WoW is there where it is. Not because it is the best mmo, but because it forcefully grabbed that position where it had only Everquest 2 as contrahend with pc specs that noone had to run it smootly.
I know what you guys wish for - we all do wish for the golden times of our childhood we experienced once- but time has changed- and you too- just accept it and move forward already.
im sorry if i offend anyone of you but this carebare talk all time...if it was it by you guys, we would still have Stone Age in this time...
What im saying is: move on.
Ask yourself: If everything was better back then, then why did it improve? and you not?
Pretty stupid response. By your logic a 2014 Mitsubishi Lancer is much better then a 69 Mustang because it has power steering and an ipod player. Well I'm sorry sir but it is not!
Newer is not always better, that's what corporations want you to think so you'll keep dropping cash. In fact, even MMORPG statistics disprove your statement completely. WoW is still by far the most profitable and played MMORPG in the world. It also happens to be exactly 10 years old.......
A 2014 Mitusbishi Lancer is by todays needs really alot better then a 69 Mustang. Time has changed, so the needs. A Mitsubishi can bring you from A to B with 50% less fuel and 100% more comfort. Today everything is about efficiency and sustainability. Sure if you have the money, you can buy and keep your Mustang with a 25l /100km.
Old school mmos are not the sustainable in this modern time. We hated grinders (most of us) back then- they changed it - so why go back again?
And WoW has just his bleeding fanbase left. WoW took over with a huge marketing campaing- like no other MMO did until this day. You need to understand why WoW is there where it is. Not because it is the best mmo, but because it forcefully grabbed that position where it had only Everquest 2 as contrahend with pc specs that noone had to run it smootly.
I know what you guys wish for - we all do wish for the golden times of our childhood we experienced once- but time has changed- and you too- just accept it and move forward already.
I see your point..
Mustang 69' --> Mitsubishi Lancer 2014: You don't have to drive anymore, the car assists you.
Everquest 1 --> any modern MMO post 2010: You don't have to play anymore, the game holds your hand.
In both cases, the technical aspect has improved a lot.
im sorry if i offend anyone of you but this carebare talk all time...if it was it by you guys, we would still have Stone Age in this time...
What im saying is: move on.
Ask yourself: If everything was better back then, then why did it improve? and you not?
Here's my theory and hopefully an answer to your question (and it's a good one).
Back then, we, including the developers were still new to this entire genre. We hated the corpse runs, the exp loss, the long downtimes due to medding (getting mana back), the dependence on others to accomplish anything. We griped and complained all the time about it. Thinking back I can't remember anyone actually "liking" those features.
Instanced dungeons "sounds" great when all you have is non-instanced and you want to go kill mobs or camp an item and it's all taken up with no room for you or your group. So yeah, it "sounds" awesome.
Going further, being able to queue up for pick up groups and running dungeons "sounds" great also for a little while. Until you do it a little bit, and remember how much fun you had with everyone was trying to make it to the dungeon on foot. And the difficulty/challenge of getting together that perfect group so you could do the dungeon. All of that is in the past now (atleast with WoW).
See, we are all ignorant. We do not understand fully how changes will affect us, until after the fact. A system that we might think needs to be improved upon, we realize we desperately miss once it's removed and made easier.
So, the experienced mmorpg players, the ones that's been playing nearly every game since the inception of the genre, have realized that the direction the genre is taking is a bad decision. We NEED the danger, we NEED the downtime (fyi - it promotes social interaction), we NEED the "bad" stuff so we can taste the "good" stuff. The sweet isn't as sweet without the sour.
Old schoolers its time to put our money where our mouths are. Nobody is going to make this type of game where it will garner the type of attention due to the name behind it.
If this project fails the industry will chalk this up to these type of games not being wanted.
im sorry if i offend anyone of you but this carebare talk all time...if it was it by you guys, we would still have Stone Age in this time...
What im saying is: move on.
Ask yourself: If everything was better back then, then why did it improve? and you not?
Pretty stupid response. By your logic a 2014 Mitsubishi Lancer is much better then a 69 Mustang because it has power steering and an ipod player. Well I'm sorry sir but it is not!
Newer is not always better.
Pretty stupid response. The idea that a muscle car is better than a sedan is something men with small units, little boys trying to act like men, and mouth breathers believe.
The Mustang is one thing, it can be only one thing. The Lancer however can be a family car or it can be decked out ala the Evo (with the UK version topping 411PS/405 hp) to out race that thing called the 69' Mustang. Hence the point he was making.
Evolution, going from a game that did one thing, to a game that can do many things far better. This would be why Brad said "We are not doing corpse runs or big penalities, that's tedious, not difficult".
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
You're my hero. Every post you make is like MUSIC to my ears!!!
I could listen to you talk all day. God Bless people like you , give me hope that one day we might actually LIVE A NEW 1999!! Can't wait !!! Trust me, I put my money up already and I'm watching the KS funding daily.
Originally posted by UOlover Everquest Next will be Next without the Everquest
This!
Yay for Landmark... everything except the actual game design... another GW2 with marketing hype behind it running after the WoW crowd (we all know how these games turn out to be).
im sorry if i offend anyone of you but this carebare talk all time...if it was it by you guys, we would still have Stone Age in this time...
What im saying is: move on.
Ask yourself: If everything was better back then, then why did it improve? and you not?
Pretty stupid response. By your logic a 2014 Mitsubishi Lancer is much better then a 69 Mustang because it has power steering and an ipod player. Well I'm sorry sir but it is not!
Newer is not always better.
Pretty stupid response. The idea that a muscle car is better than a sedan is something men with small units, little boys trying to act like men, and mouth breathers believe.
The Mustang is one thing, it can be only one thing. The Lancer however can be a family car or it can be decked out ala the Evo (with the UK version topping 411PS/405 hp) to out race that thing called the 69' Mustang. Hence the point he was making.
Evolution, going from a game that did one thing, to a game that can do many things far better. This would be why Brad said "We are not doing corpse runs or big penalities, that's tedious, not difficult".
i grew up wth a mustand as the family car. . . . . .
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Comments
For the record, I never took this far...
While I want good games and titles like Pantheon here to get a shot on the market, I honestly feel that some are blowing the industry effects of this game getting made or not out of proportion. The old school market simply isn't as big as the casual market and make it or fail Pantheon is unlikely to change who big publishers choose to make and market games for and to. Until something can compete with WOW it's irrelevant to big money interests and they have shown it through the years with clone after clone and attempts at old franchise reboots instead of new IPs. They want franchises and big hits, forget the small fry because even a franchise flop will rake in more cash than a small time hit. Pantheon is small fry.
Frankly, that's why Kick Starter exists and is needed. Kick Starter allows for all of these smaller budget niche titles to get made and played where they otherwise would not exist because while they can be profitable games they simply aren't in the league of something like WOW, COD X, HALO 5, Half Life X, or BF #X with their rabid followings and focus group driven development.
I gotta wait 'til I get paid, but I'm definitely backing it.
I really like what I've seen so far. Brad and co. seem to really be embracing more of what made the genre special to begin with.
He said a few things that were immensely important to me.. For one, their reason for going to Kickstarter because they're targeting a specific portion of the community; not trying to make it "everything for everybody". That's so key right there. It's what developers have been failing to do, instead casting that biggest net, trying to get the biggest possible audience... and leaving what I have no doubt is a sizable portion of the MMO community sitting on the sidelines.
Another thing he said that really got my explorer's juices flowing... Massive open world dungeons. Open world. Open freaking world. Not instanced and linear. Not "private". Open World and massive. How I love those words.
One thing I haven't seen/heard yet... Is there going to be a lot of guidance/helpers/quest markers, etc? I seriously hope not. It would be nice to actually be dealt back into the adventure again, and be left to find and figure things out for myself.
im sorry if i offend anyone of you but this carebare talk all time...if it was it by you guys, we would still have Stone Age in this time...
What im saying is: move on.
Ask yourself: If everything was better back then, then why did it improve? and you not?
Pretty stupid response. By your logic a 2014 Mitsubishi Lancer is much better then a 69 Mustang because it has power steering and an ipod player. Well I'm sorry sir but it is not!
Newer is not always better, that's what corporations want you to think so you'll keep dropping cash. In fact, even MMORPG statistics disprove your statement completely. WoW is still by far the most profitable and played MMORPG in the world. It also happens to be exactly 10 years old.......
This sounds promising, almost a game of my dreams.
I gotta agree with OP. This really is everything EQN should have been.
A 2014 Mitusbishi Lancer is by todays needs really alot better then a 69 Mustang. Time has changed, so the needs. A Mitsubishi can bring you from A to B with 50% less fuel and 100% more comfort. Today everything is about efficiency and sustainability. Sure if you have the money, you can buy and keep your Mustang with a 25l /100km.
Old school mmos are not the sustainable in this modern time. We hated grinders (most of us) back then- they changed it - so why go back again?
And WoW has just his bleeding fanbase left. WoW took over with a huge marketing campaing- like no other MMO did until this day. You need to understand why WoW is there where it is. Not because it is the best mmo, but because it forcefully grabbed that position where it had only Everquest 2 as contrahend with pc specs that noone had to run it smootly.
I know what you guys wish for - we all do wish for the golden times of our childhood we experienced once- but time has changed- and you too- just accept it and move forward already.
I see your point..
Mustang 69' --> Mitsubishi Lancer 2014: You don't have to drive anymore, the car assists you.
Everquest 1 --> any modern MMO post 2010: You don't have to play anymore, the game holds your hand.
In both cases, the technical aspect has improved a lot.
I'd still prefer Mustang 69'..
Here's my theory and hopefully an answer to your question (and it's a good one).
Back then, we, including the developers were still new to this entire genre. We hated the corpse runs, the exp loss, the long downtimes due to medding (getting mana back), the dependence on others to accomplish anything. We griped and complained all the time about it. Thinking back I can't remember anyone actually "liking" those features.
Instanced dungeons "sounds" great when all you have is non-instanced and you want to go kill mobs or camp an item and it's all taken up with no room for you or your group. So yeah, it "sounds" awesome.
Going further, being able to queue up for pick up groups and running dungeons "sounds" great also for a little while. Until you do it a little bit, and remember how much fun you had with everyone was trying to make it to the dungeon on foot. And the difficulty/challenge of getting together that perfect group so you could do the dungeon. All of that is in the past now (atleast with WoW).
See, we are all ignorant. We do not understand fully how changes will affect us, until after the fact. A system that we might think needs to be improved upon, we realize we desperately miss once it's removed and made easier.
So, the experienced mmorpg players, the ones that's been playing nearly every game since the inception of the genre, have realized that the direction the genre is taking is a bad decision. We NEED the danger, we NEED the downtime (fyi - it promotes social interaction), we NEED the "bad" stuff so we can taste the "good" stuff. The sweet isn't as sweet without the sour.
+1
Pretty stupid response. The idea that a muscle car is better than a sedan is something men with small units, little boys trying to act like men, and mouth breathers believe.
The Mustang is one thing, it can be only one thing. The Lancer however can be a family car or it can be decked out ala the Evo (with the UK version topping 411PS/405 hp) to out race that thing called the 69' Mustang. Hence the point he was making.
Evolution, going from a game that did one thing, to a game that can do many things far better. This would be why Brad said "We are not doing corpse runs or big penalities, that's tedious, not difficult".
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Maquiame,
You're my hero. Every post you make is like MUSIC to my ears!!!
I could listen to you talk all day. God Bless people like you , give me hope that one day we might actually LIVE A NEW 1999!! Can't wait !!! Trust me, I put my money up already and I'm watching the KS funding daily.
This!
Yay for Landmark... everything except the actual game design... another GW2 with marketing hype behind it running after the WoW crowd (we all know how these games turn out to be).
im confussed EQ next is what in early alhpa late alpha? and people are bemoaning it as not what it should be already.
jeez people let the horse get out of the stall at least before you rip up your tickets.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
i grew up wth a mustand as the family car. . . . . .
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.