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I just can't seem to find a game... I know I'm not the only one.
fivetigers
Member UncommonPosts: 208
It seems like every game I try falls into 1 of 2 categories, it's either a WoW clone (which I'm not a fan of) with maybe 1 or 2 novel features, but inherently the same as WoW, or an Indie game with tons of promising features but god awful implementation and gameplay.
I've tried tons of games and nothing can keep my attention for more than a few days (if even that much). Everything is the same, either a WoW clone or a disappointment. Maybe I'm not giving games enough time and I've overlooked something.
Either way, I'm fairly certain that what I'm looking for does not exist (yet), but I'd be willing to try something that even has half to most of these features. So if you're reading this and any particular game comes to mind (I'd even be interested in single player games or console games) feel free to mention it.
· Classless skill-based or multi-classing (think The Elder Scrolls 1-5, or D&D type character creation/progression)
· BIG open world (no invisible borders, minimal use of instances, and go anywhere I want as long as I can survive there)
· Nonlinear gameplay (not just hub to hub to hub… travel/exploration is encouraged)
· Action combat (no tab targeting, have to manually aim/dodge/block, etc.)
· Gear can be acquired through questing, crafting and looting (not all from 1 source)
· Non-combat gameplay options (Trade (think trade routes and goods, not just player to player item exchange), Exploration, Construction)
· Fantasy setting
· PvP isn’t forced on you
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I sure hope you find out...
Cause I would to play that game, too!
(Although, the one thing I'd do different is less fantasy, more historical- 17th-19th Century or Ancient Rome/Greece).
The promised land of mmo's sadly bud I don't think it exists....
I want a Rolemaster based classless MMO
But we all dream
(Gemstone III was as close as we ever got)
Explorer 73% Achiever 53% Socializer 53% Killer 20%
Life is Feudal sounds promising, but is likely to fall into the second category. Early Alpha starts sometime this week. Hopefully I will be able to offer a little bit of information about the game seeing as my guild leader is working with their marketing department.
http://lifeisfeudal.com
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
^This...been looking for this game for over a decade. Closest was Asherons call. But as much as I loved that game the graphics make my eyes bleed now.
>pvp isn't forced on you
Sad to say but you seem to be the problem, as it is with most people who say that good games don't exist anymore. The fact that you don't want pvp forced on you and what you are basically asking for is a pve setting with no consequence, implies you are part of the recurring problems in MMOS. Pve solo players who want the game designed for pve solo playing. The same kind of people who join PUG groups and never say a word. This is what has been killing games imo.
You are probably jaded, as is anyone who agrees with this view. Probably played MMOs for more than 3-4 years, probably WoW. Sadly there isn't a cure for this, the fun was temporary and you're going to have to find another hobby. Not trying to cause offense but it's true, the nostalgic memories you have and the claim that "games were better before" are simply because you were just entering into the genre, so you were exploring and everything seemed more exciting than it seems now. Try and go back to a "good ol' game" and you'll see that you will feel the same.
I actually have to agree with the OP. However, tiger didn't mention examples of what was meant.
I would say that while I am a mostly PVE player, I welcome PVP into my game as long as it's not forced upon me, ie: High-end loot that isn't available by alternate means or have no similar PVE equivalents.
I think Star Wars Galaxies and Dark Age of Camelot were the best examples of how I would like PVP in my MMO.
This game is on my radar. Hoping it turns out good.
I'm currently playing AC again (first time was back in 99-02), enjoying it, but getting to the point where I'm running out of content.
Yes, I've been playing MMORPGS for more than 3-4 years as can be seen by my join date of June 2004... Never played WoW for more than week because I like games with depth, Asheron's Call and DDO are my favorites. The PvE in both of those games has consequences. You can literally lose all your gear in Asheron's Call, and while not as harsh, you don't get any xp or rewards in DDO if you fail a quest, and quests are the only way to get xp. (you don't get it for killing stuff along the way, you only get it upon completion of a quest). DDO is also about as non-solo gameplay as you're going to get. Everything but the starter quests pretty much requires a group. Where in my post did I say anything about solo game play?
I think games that are too easy are dumb and I love the concept and correct implementation of risk vs reward, but at the same time, I don't want griefers who live their entire lives powering up their character to be able to destroy my game experience becuase I don't play the game 24/7 and my toon isn't up to their speed. There are games for that crowd, yet I'm a problem becuase I don't want pvp forced on me? Also, I didn't say I wouldn't play an open world PvP game, just that if I had the choice, I'd probably choose a PvE server.
I'm not jaded, I was never a fan of hub-to-hub-style/pick-1-generic-class/everyone has the EXACT same gear games. I'm a person with a life outside of video games that's tired of the same old sh*t being rehashed over and over and resold with a different title on it. Whether or not I'm only looking for that nostalgic feeling from my first MMORPG, the fact remains that my first MMORPG happened to have tons of features that are completely absent from current WoW-clone MMORPGS. I'm looking for those features, some of which are listed above.
I hardly see how I'm "the problem" because I'm tired of every new game copying one successful game.
I'm considering trying it. Darkfall UW, EVE and Uncharted Waters Online are ones that I think may be the closest to what I'm looking for.
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It's crazy there isn't a good old school game out at the moment, I want one like that too. Been going around trying different games but they are all WoW clones or just don't get the formula right, Maybe I just need to be more open and enjoy games for what they are. They all seem like they are extreme one or the other.
I'm thinking about trying Mortal Online, its like an elder scrolls MMO (if it was the singleplayer). It has extreme realism with murder and stealing and just freedom to do anything you like, though if you want to avoid the crime and pvp you have to join a friendly group and you get less of a chance of being attacked in their territory or else guards will attack or the person will have to face consequence's.
It's classless but there are still roles, I was watching a video of the PvE the other day and there are like healers and even a person that Is the torch holder as their role in a group. You can also be a dedicated crafter, and the crafting is very complex from what I've heard.
"Let me give you my Mortal Online crafting experience:
In MO, there are a ton of different types of bows. And then, there are two material slots when crafting them (front and back, basically, forget the real terms). Then, there is a slider that lets you adjust the amount of the front vs back material
So, I picked a type I wanted to do some Research and Development on, went with the shortbow, since not many people used them -- thought I could find some secret sauce. I then collected a ton of various types of materials (which all come from actual lumberjacking and butchery on animal carcasses).
I then proceeded to make about 200 bows, all experimenting with various combinations. You can name your items, so, I named them "Bow1". I then tracked in a spreadsheet which material was which.
I then traded them all to my archer, and tested them out, noting how much stamina usage, draw time, and damage they did.
To top it off, if you find something amazing, the materials are not known to a buyer, so you can sort of "patent" your items.
I never did any other weapon or armor crafting, but it is all similar -- you choose materials for handles, blades, different parts of the armor. One time I did have to have an armorer make me a very specialized set because I was doing a unique character build, and needed armor of a specific weight, so I got him to make me some thinner boots and gloves, for example.
Mortal Online has the single best crafting system I've ever seen, and I've played a massive amount of MMOs. I would say Eve Online's is second, but its just SO different than fantasy style crafting."
Here is a good overview video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtISkP3S-zs
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After about three years in abstentia I jumped back into Fallen Earth about a week ago. I had been playing Defiance since launch and it really spoiled combat for me, particularly gunplay, but it's barely an MMO and my clan si bored to tears with the game.
FE's gameplay sure is clunky as hell but it's still a shooter, has about the best MMO world to date, good crafting, and plenty to do at endgame.
We're going to give it an honest go. I really wish Grimlands hadn't been canceled!
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The near future is much brighter. There are plenty of games coming that are not remotely close to WoW, the implementation and gameplay part though are going to be based on your personal likes/dislikes so cant comment on them.
Archeage (even with the themepark patch is nothing like WoW and still AAA).
Blade and Soul
EverQuest Landmark
EverQuest Next
Shroud of the Avatar
Black Desert
Hell someone is even making an MMO based off of Jane Austen novels called "Ever, Jane".
Your staple clone themeparks (Wildstar, TESO) will be around as long as masses buy them thinking somehow its going to be different but thankfully just enough companies are trying to break the mold that the rest of us will have a variety to chose from like it used to be 10+ years ago.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
You're not the only one.
However you guys all have the same problem. You're approaching games like a shopping list. Which is basically an indirect method of backseat designing a game. You're basically thinking of how you would make a game, without actually making one, and then looking for someone else to do that for you.
I'm not trying to imply that it's somehow practical for everyone w/ dreams of what would make the perfect MMO to go out, raise 10s / 100s of millions of dollars and create their own. However, it also illustrates just how unlikely it is for some other designer to do everything you'd like in a game, in a genre that is reliant on pleasing 100s of thousands, if not millions of players to survive.
You'd have much better luck, if you approached MMOs similar to how most people approach single-player / smaller-scale multiplayer games. Go with what looks interesting, and approach it like a new product. Don't approach each new MMO based on a pre-defined list of features you want to see. Doing so can ONLY lead to dissapointment. By comparing it to a shopping list of features you are setting the game up to fail (for you) before you even play it. Because instead of looking for features you like in the game, you're looking for features it does not have, and then judging it based on what you aren't finding. It's an inherently negative way to go into playing a new game.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should be content w/ WoW clones. And I too have my own wishlist of features I would love to see in an MMO. Heck, if I had the time & resources I'd probably be making my own. But I don't, and I can't, so I'm not going to expect others to do it for me.
Instead I approach each new MMO for what they are. I accept certain tradeoffs that are inherent to the genre (if you want more freedom / sandbox design, you're going to have to accept fundamentally different gameplay from a theme park, for example. Instancing / zoning is also inevitable, etc. etc.) I weigh the things I like about the game, with the things I don't like about the game, and then I come to a conclusion.
Am I having fun? Do I support what the game's trying to do?
- If the answer is yes to both, then I play the game. It's that simple. Even if it has flaws, I take note of those flaws, remember them, and go back to enjoying the game.
Everyone approaches them for what they are. If what they are does not contain the type of gameplay the person is looking for, they don't like it.
So his list is a list of what he is looking for. Your "shopping list" comment as if its bad doesn't make sense. The person is looking for a product, why wouldn't he look for one that matches his likes?!?
And no one, and I mean no one should "accept certain tradeoffs" because there is no inherent design to the genre. This is BS developers want you to believe because they have no ability to break the mold, the mold they themselves created. Not all MMOs are the same, there have been enough created since 1997 to prove that to us. Most look the same today, because most are clones of the same game.
Lastly, looking at an MMO like a single player game doesn't work and even if you tried it, goes against what you said. If you accept 2 games that are trying to be alike, you will compare them to each other and 1 wont stand up. If you approach them as individual games you will still compare them to other games on the market and go with the better games or the games that are a closer match to your individual likes.
Either way, you look to see if the game is offering what you will enjoy. The OP is in the same boat as a great many MMORPGers that have grown tired of the clone wars and are looking for something that is actually different, many of the things on his list will greatly shorten the lifespan of a clone game, so he really has no reason to just accept a new one for what it is, because what it is, is a game that wont hold him for long and not worth investing time into.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Based on your play experience and written desires, I am going to write that there isn't a perfect MMORPG for you out there right now and that you would be better off picking up a copy of a single player game. In particular I would recommend Skyrim to you.
I've already played the Elder Scrolls games and the Gothic games. I like them. I've played Two Worlds as well. I was considering Kingdoms of Amalur or Divinity II, but I've been in the mood to game with other people.
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may i suggest you check out one of those two funcom titles:
- anarchy online, it answers points 2,3,5,6 and 8 (and to some extent point 1) of your list, but note that it is an old, old game with graphics and limits to match, also it is sci fi setting (at least as free to play) mixed in with wierd phantasy blend (story wise the lore is pretty original thu)
- the secret world, this one's a bit trickier, it does answer points 1, 4, 5 and 8, somewhat on 2 (you can do anything and everything and go anywhere (minus raids/hardmodes) from the start (you will die alot if you don't have the gear and skills up to spec thu)) and 3 (there's a main quest line you can choose to do at your leisure and that's about it for linear gameplay). it is sort of mixed fantasy/horror/sci-fi setting and i believe it is either free to play or buy to play.
MMORPG addict since 1995.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
I venture into all these threads hoping that someone has offered a game that may peak my interest also.
Sadly, for all of it's faults Tabula Rasa was the "perfect" mix of things I was looking for in a game.
slightly more than tab target combat, it was a halfway mark between action and tab combat
Interesting story, enough to keep my occupied in the "why" at least
and lastly, most importantly, they had a way of masking grindfests that did not feel like grinding to level. Only 1 other game has come close and that was when Rift implemented those outpost fights in Ember Isle.
I do agree with the Fallen Earth recommendation, Crafting that means something, Combat that isn't just tab targeting, and a "great" faction system, you are not just "For the HORDE!!!" you can actually switch allegences.
Sadly with little time to play, I tend to play with my wife, who cannot stand the game.
OP I DO like your list, it is one of those lists that really reflect many of my own hopes. I've played several games that have gotten 1 or 2 of those points right, but not many more than 2 of your points.
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
That list would make a great MMORPG. Unfortunately, you describe old school MMORPG (Everquest, Vanguard etc.) of the total exploration and the nonlinearity with modern Asian MMORPGs of action combat and no classes.
To be fair, you cannot find that anywhere. You should priotize 3 of the attributes. If I were you, I would either pick:
The Secret World: No classes, yet still the most advanced character progression system yet to be found. Even though its not an open world, every zone is so detailed and brilliant made that it is a lot like old school exploration.
Guild Wars 2: It is not completely linear and the combat is great.
Wildstar: With the best combat system I have ever tried in an MMORPG aswell as a non-linear path (you decide which places you want to quest yourself) you are encouraged to explore the open world. You can even be an actual Explorer. People say it is a WoW clone, I have played WoW for 7 years and I have tried the beta of Wildstar. People who compare it are idiots that dont know what a WoW-clone means.
If I were you, I would stick to Wildstar when it comes out. It is the best hybrid of the Asian market (Action combat) and the old-school MMORPG market (Exploration and non-linearity).
Asheron's call has most of the features that I listed except for action combat and non-combat gameplay. You might give it a try.
I'll have to look into Vendetta Online and The Secret World.
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This. So, so much this.
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms