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Why do certain groups of MMO players feel the need to force their gameplay on others?
avatarair
Member Posts: 58
Consent and free will violations are pretty much front and center as the basis or "right" for common western morality, so why is it that certain groups of MMO players love oh so much to enforce playstyle they prefer onto people that don't prefer those playstyles.
What instigated this is reading about how some people are against adding a PvE-only Cyrodil campaign in ESO, for example. Or older examples like WoW where they fought to improve the way where one could permanently toggle PvP off.
While this is of course more prominent for PVP'ers in my knowledge this kind of vitriol also comes from PvE'ers (hardcore more often than not), and "hardcore" gamers in general.
I mean I've pretty much accepted that it's the way of human to be blissfully and ignorantly bigoted and try to dominate and subdue people that don't agree with them because of some perceived strength or level of value to their specific opinion simply because...well, because. But at the same time it just gets hard to wrap my head around it.
Why can't you let people just be whoever the hell they want to be? They're themselves anyway, you restricting them doesn't change that in any way. It just makes life shittier from a utilitarian standpoint.
What's worse is the convoluted logic these people will sometimes employ to defend these claims.
And before you post "Of you're complaining about intolerance by being intolerant of intolerance" well god damnit there's no way out of the tolerance paradox that doesn't conflict with my moral standings, flimsy as they may be, so I just say fuck it. If it helps I'm approaching this from a utilitarian POV as well so just take it from there.
Comments
I dunno why they feel that way ...
But it boils down to gaming is about preferences, and free market, and so no matter what they are saying, it is moot at the end, since the market is going to do what it does anyway.
And no one should compromise on their preferences. I always play games my way .. and if devs don't want to cater to me, i will do something else.
It is that simple.
/endrant
I had one of these threads this morning.
I'm not an intolerant person. I don't mind if my food touches, I don't mind taking a different way home. I don't mind if I'm never able to down a boss, or if another player jumps out the bushes and attacks me. I enjoy mmorpgs. They are games after all.
Can be summed up simply:
"I'm right and you're wrong, in what we like, how we play, and how MMORPGs are meant to be.
The other players like what I do, and you are just a vocal minority out to screw up my game with your whining."
It's called self-righteousness. It doesn't matter which side the person is on, the positioning is always the same.
If only the market truly were free. AS it stands right now, I LOVE the theme and feel of ESO but absolutely cannot stand PvP, so essentially I will have no end-game as end-game is heavily crafting influenced and all good end-game mats and recipes come from PvP areas.
On the contrast, Wildstar looks exactly like what I want in an MMO, but lacks any form of seriousness, graphical fidelity, or complexity (both inner and outer), and to boot I HATE HATE HATE anything that looks sci-fi.
The day where new MMOs are coming out all the time to suit all types of playstyles is when I'll be happy but right now the genre feels so shallow to me in the upcoming year.
No one can do that .. since the market don't really listen to vocal minorities.
In fact, no one can screw up my entertainment because there are just simply too much fun (to me) stuff out there. If for some strange reason, games stop catering to me tomorrow, i will just do something else.
With hundreds of MMOs currently available covering countless playstyles and plenty more in development, if you can't find an MMO that caters to your playstyle, the problem isn't MMOs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Well I can't say I'm intolerant but I'm certainly not flexible on my beliefs for how I want things to pan out for me (emphasis on me, nobody else). I'm very picky.
However I could give a rats ass as to what others are doing. It's their life, their path to choose, their game that they are paying for and their money that is being used to develop content that hopefully should appeal to them in some way.
Problem is graphical fidelity and up-to-date engines and mechanics and such are fundamental to my enjoyment. I've found that I'm the type of person that can't play a game that's older than 3 years without just feeling disgusted a few minutes in and dropping it altogether.
Heck I can't even play Skyrim anymore.
Not to mention that new MMOs are breaking ground in small ways with every announcement. ESO for example emphasizes exploration unlike any other MMO I've ever seen, and is a sub game which is a must for me. However end-game is PvP based, which literally is a game breaker for me.
And the problem can't not be MMOs. A persons opinion of what they prefer for themselves cannot be a problem, it can't even be wrong.
Heh, I only wish I was able to please myself easier (did that come out weird?).
I just dislike it when my preferences get attacked :x
But you just said it . One "maximum rewards".
But most of the time these people asking for options aren't expecting their gameplay style to be rewarding and most of the time are the most willing to give and say "I don't want to be rewarded with this I just want the option to play like this." Admittedly this willingness to compromise might come from being on the "lower ground" so to speak but a compromise is a compromise nonetheless regardless of the conditions it was performed under if with full consent.
Because you're ruining the genre.
Aaaaaaaand this is what I mean.
Apparently ruin is equal to making people happy. Down with human rights! Onward with oppression for all (but people like me)! Huzzah!
Is that what you want?
Same reason I like certain particular genres of music/film/books. I'm not forcing anyone to play a certain way but I am going to support and like products that conform to my particular tastes. That means that the game will cater to my preferred play style.
I'd flip this question around actually because I really don't get people who insist that MMOs must be all things to all people and every MMO under the sun must cater to them in some way. Why not just play the games you like and ignore the ones you don't?
You see the flipside doesn't work. Because the fact is that there isn't an MMORPG for every taste.
Agreed. There are no shortage of MMO's no matter what your play style is. The counter on this site reads, Games: 642.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
It is a good question actually.
Why would I care if other servers have different rulesetting, like PvE only, FFA PvP or permadeath? Ok, I can buy that in a few games the game is so focused on a certain playstyle that it is impossible to increment certain serversettings, PvE only in a game that is 95% focused on PvE is just wouldn't work but those games are few and the more choices you have the better it is.
Within the same server it is slightly harder, chances are that you destroy other playstyles if you make certain changes, if your game makes an awesome raidgame with tiered gear it is very hard to make the crafters happy and so on, a game needs to balance the playstyles it supports or it might as well skip the ones it doesn't do well.
MMOs should be about choices and a game that only supports a single playstyle better do that really great, allowing different types of MMOers in the same game usually is good for the community and makes the world feel more alive.
Ok then...show me a game made in the last 2 years with graphics aimed towards realism that has no PvP requirement for any of its content (except for PvP-only content), that has a sub, that has a focus on exploration, that has action oriented combat, and that has a fantasy medieval theme with little to no sci-fi or steampunk elements. Also this game should be much more theme park than sandbox.
If I found a game like that I wouldn't be here.
?? Really? Pardon my ignorance but despite searching for a couple of years now I have yet to find a game that meets my desired playstyle. Given your wide knowledge of the topic can you please point me at the titles that meet my requirements.
How so?
How does it undermine the game? How does making more people happy undermine the game?
Is this one of those fictitious cases where a group of players can only be happy if the other group is unhappy? Because those types of dynamics have never existed in humanity.
Pointing out intolerance is not being intolerant yourself.
I have argued much like yourself against the idea of the TESO design. They could have made the world open and not locked faction lands and people that wanted a faction locked game could have still played it as if it was, its called roleplaying. Then everyone could have gotten a game that wasnt so limited in scope and gameplay. And also, much like you, got the end of the intolerance stick, was even told I was trying to force my way of playing on everyone when clearly it was them doing it. My way allowed everyone to play their own way, their way forced everyone to play theirs.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
There are two examples I can think of that get people really riled up. One is requesting a PvE server in Darkfall. The other is talking about the PvE continent released in UO. I can't really think of an example of a PvE game adding PvP and people getting upset because most games include PvP in some fashion, even if it's instanced.
I think it's important to note that players can't really force their game play on other players. Only developers can do that. However, players can get really upset when developers allow additional game play options to other players. I would say that players get really upset when developers suddenly restrict game play options from players, but this doesn't seem to happen.
So the question is, why do those players get so upset? Why did all those UO players get so upset that more people started playing UO after the release of the PvE content? Why do Darkfall players get so upset when someone suggests a PvE server, aside from being tired of hearing about it?
Are there any other examples of changes like this that have actually happened?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
One could only imagine what real life would be like if most people had that opinion. XD
...Oh wait.
It would be shit. Like it is now. Lots of suffering. Lots of inequality. Lots of death. Lots of bigotry. Lots of shit.
Darn I guess the MMO community really is a reflection of the world at large