As someone who really enjoys cooperative gameplay (e.g. "forced grouping") I often get accused by people who enjoy solo-play of trying to force my play style on them. However, this is not the case at all. I hope there are many, many MMO's out there which are very freindly to solo-play (and I believe this to be the case). I simply want SOME games which have rulesets that really focus on cooperative play....and those rulesets, by definition, aren't going to be particulary freindly toward solo-play. It's like trying to tell someone who enjoys playing baseball that every baseball field must support someone playing golf on the same field and at the same time that he's playing a baseball game....with no realization by the golfer that actualy disrupts the baseball game...but it does. No one begrudges golfers having golf courses to play on....but when you come onto every baseball field and insist that holes be drilled in the outfield so that you can play golf, that presents a problem for the baseball player.
Well, the golfers were nice enough to share their golf course with you but you then deluded yourself into thinking that it was actually a baseball field. Then you get all huffy when we put back the golf holes you covered up. You see a baseball field when we clearly see that it is actually a golf course and was always meant to be a golf course.
As someone who really enjoys cooperative gameplay (e.g. "forced grouping") I often get accused by people who enjoy solo-play of trying to force my play style on them. However, this is not the case at all. I hope there are many, many MMO's out there which are very freindly to solo-play (and I believe this to be the case). I simply want SOME games which have rulesets that really focus on cooperative play....and those rulesets, by definition, aren't going to be particulary freindly toward solo-play. It's like trying to tell someone who enjoys playing baseball that every baseball field must support someone playing golf on the same field and at the same time that he's playing a baseball game....with no realization by the golfer that actualy disrupts the baseball game...but it does. No one begrudges golfers having golf courses to play on....but when you come onto every baseball field and insist that holes be drilled in the outfield so that you can play golf, that presents a problem for the baseball player.
Well, the golfers were nice enough to share their golf course with you but you then deluded yourself into thinking that it was actually a baseball field. Then you get all huffy when we put back the golf holes you covered up. You see a baseball field when we clearly see that it is actually a golf course and was always meant to be a golf course.
Uhmm..... clearly there is room in the world for both golf courses and baseball fields but having them try to occupy the same space at the same time doesn't work very well. Kinda the point of the post.
When a Designer comes along and says "I'm making a baseball field", golfers really have no just cause to come in and demand that they add golf holes to it so that they can play golf.....just as baseball players have no just cause to demand a Designer of a golf course add a batting cage. Neither is being unreasonable to demand that there by someplace out in the world of MMO's designed for them to pursue thier favored activity both are being unreasonable when they expect EVERY space be built to cater to them.
I will agree with your previous post that Designers are sometimes to blame for this themselves when not being clear or forthright about what the game they are building is focused on or trying to focus on too many incompatible playstyles. I have, however, witnessed plenty of incidents when the Designer was absolutely clear about the focus of thier games and players come in and expect and demand changes that are completely incompatible with the stated design focus. It's like asking to play a Klingon in a game of Dungeons and Dragons.
There is certainly a ego part to it where some people just feel like they know whats best for everyone else even if others might disagree. Add on top of that the anonymous nature of internet forums and people will say a lot of things they would never dream of face to face.
However there is also a resource element to the equation. In a perfect world with unlimited budgets you could create games where all styles of play where supported based on popularity. That's just not how it works though and even the biggest money makers don't have enough development staff to do that (kind of begs the question where is all that money games like LoL, WoW and WoT's are making is going?). What happens is developers have make choices where to spend resources and people who don't like those choices think their part of the game is being neglected because of it.
When a Designer comes along and says "I'm making a baseball field", golfers really have no just cause to come in and demand that they add golf holes to it so that they can play golf.....just as baseball players have no just cause to demand a Designer of a golf course add a batting cage. Neither is being unreasonable to demand that there by someplace out in the world of MMO's designed for them to pursue thier favored activity both are being unreasonable when they expect EVERY space be built to cater to them.
I will agree with your previous post that Designers are sometimes to blame for this themselves when not being clear or forthright about what the game they are building is focused on or trying to focus on too many incompatible playstyles. I have, however, witnessed plenty of incidents when the Designer was absolutely clear about the focus of thier games and players come in and expect and demand changes that are completely incompatible with the stated design focus. It's like asking to play a Klingon in a game of Dungeons and Dragons.
We are into anecdotal stories here so it is hard for me to judge what you experienced vs what I did. Generally I find that marketing for a game tends to use broad language to entice as many people as it can no matter what the actual reality of the game is. It does not help that they use past games as comparisons which adds the mixed message the old games were sending as well. Customers are given plenty of reason why they should buy a game but almost never reasons why they should not.
Ok then...show me a game made in the last 2 years with graphics aimed towards realism that has no PvP requirement for any of its content (except for PvP-only content), that has a sub, that has a focus on exploration, that has action oriented combat, and that has a fantasy medieval theme with little to no sci-fi or steampunk elements. Also this game should be much more theme park than sandbox.
You're talking about your dream game vs a game which is close enough that you enjoy it. Probably everybody on this forum has an idea of their dream feature set which doesn't exist in any game. Games that try to cater to everyone at once usually just end up really pleasing no one. You'll probably get closer to the dream game you want if it is developed with you and people like you in mind than if it's trying to appeal to everyone...
Consent and free will violations are pretty much front and center as the basis or "right" for common western morality, so why is it that certain groups of MMO players love oh so much to enforce playstyle they prefer onto people that don't prefer those playstyles.
How is this possible? Players don't create the games, they don't make the rules. Nor do they choose what games others play.
Players can complain, threaten to quit or actually quit, but that's about it.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Using the Cyrodiil pve example you gave its not that most players have anything against it pve in Cyrodiil but more that developer resources and time are being taken away from other aspects of the game to add something that was not or is not part of the game they have been sold on.
They like/love what they read the eso is going to be so have purchased it and reject anything that diminishes or halts improvement to in this case possibly pvp.
I bet you if a Cyrodiil pve campaign had been included from the start along side a pvp campaign hardly anyone would of mentioned or cared.
Consent and free will violations are pretty much front and center as the basis or "right" for common western morality, so why is it that certain groups of MMO players love oh so much to enforce playstyle they prefer onto people that don't prefer those playstyles.
How is this possible? Players don't create the games, they don't make the rules. Nor do they choose what games others play.
Players can complain, threaten to quit or actually quit, but that's about it.
Complain until the game changes would seem most likely. TESO could be seen as having been player feedback influenced.
Also talking sh** about upcoming releases with the intent of discrediting them because the design doesn't match their preferred gameplay. SWTOR not being a sandbox being a pretty clear example.
Consent and free will violations are pretty much front and center as the basis or "right" for common western morality, so why is it that certain groups of MMO players love oh so much to enforce playstyle they prefer onto people that don't prefer those playstyles.
How is this possible? Players don't create the games, they don't make the rules. Nor do they choose what games others play.
Players can complain, threaten to quit or actually quit, but that's about it.
Your favorite MMORPG ever make a change after launch that you didn't like?
Yeah, that was my fault, I made a few calls and spoiled your fun.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Consent and free will violations are pretty much front and center as the basis or "right" for common western morality, so why is it that certain groups of MMO players love oh so much to enforce playstyle they prefer onto people that don't prefer those playstyles.
How is this possible? Players don't create the games, they don't make the rules. Nor do they choose what games others play.
Players can complain, threaten to quit or actually quit, but that's about it.
Your favorite MMORPG ever make a change after launch that you didn't like?
Yeah, that was my fault, I made a few calls and spoiled your fun.
I'm just spiteful like that.
If it ever did, I'd just change MMOs or not play at all. I only play games so long as they are fun. When they stop being fun, I stop playing. Why are some people so incapable of understanding that?
The day where new MMOs are coming out all the time to suit all types of playstyles is when I'll be happy but right now the genre feels so shallow to me in the upcoming year.
With hundreds of MMOs currently available covering countless playstyles and plenty more in development, if you can't find an MMO that caters to your playstyle, the problem isn't MMOs.
Find me a MMO with all the following:
*3 Faction PvP
*No FFA PvP
*No Character Levels
*No Zone Levels
*No Zone Pathing
*Fantasy themed
*Sandbox world building
*crafting that isnt built on useless grind of useless items
*PvP Siege and Keep battles on large scale
*Multiple playable races that are unique
*Classes
*Dynamic Events
*Raid Dungeons
*Fantasy Gear style and Realistic gear
*No Harsh Death Penalty
*Cross Platform interaction.
I will stop there for now.
If you find it, please link. Minus the cross platoform and no (harsh) death penalty It would rule the mmorpg genre.
I agree that the statement "if you cant find a MMO that fits you, the problem lies in yourself" is riddiculous. Most games out there are clones of others. There is really not that much variance available.
The only game that gets close to what I want to play is Vanguard, which is currently closing down. The only hope for a game that replaces it sufficiently is Pantheon, which wont be out before 2017 and already looks like a substantial step back in important areas (only 12 abilities at a time, which didnt worked for me at all in Guild Wars, and realtime movements in combat, which puts people with bad ping, such as myself, at a strong disadvantage).
I would like to point out that the game just described wouldnt interest me much either:
- 3 faction PvP: I dont like games that enforce PvP
- No character levels: This at least would make me extremely suspicious for a lack of depth of the rulesystem
- Sandbox world building: this is a kind of gameplay I'm not interested in
- Dynamic Events: in my understanding this is a trickery to force people being online 24/7 to avoid being undergeared. At very least the rewards given out at such events should either be only decorative, or attainable through other ways.
- No harsh death penalty: I avoid any extremes here. Death Penalty should be there. It shouldnt be overly hard, but it also shouldnt be neglible.
This right here is the problem. No game will meet every last bit of your likes or expectations. Most sane adults realize this and try to find a game that will meet MOST of their requirements and make due. But the self-entitled whiners will moan about how all games are clones and how no one game caters to their play style are. One of the previous posters was right: with so many games out there, if you can’t find one that you can enjoy… the problem lies with you and not the market. Maybe it is time for you to move on. How’s that for a personal attack for you over sensitive types?
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
The day where new MMOs are coming out all the time to suit all types of playstyles is when I'll be happy but right now the genre feels so shallow to me in the upcoming year.
With hundreds of MMOs currently available covering countless playstyles and plenty more in development, if you can't find an MMO that caters to your playstyle, the problem isn't MMOs.
Find me a MMO with all the following:
*3 Faction PvP
*No FFA PvP
*No Character Levels
*No Zone Levels
*No Zone Pathing
*Fantasy themed
*Sandbox world building
*crafting that isnt built on useless grind of useless items
*PvP Siege and Keep battles on large scale
*Multiple playable races that are unique
*Classes
*Dynamic Events
*Raid Dungeons
*Fantasy Gear style and Realistic gear
*No Harsh Death Penalty
*Cross Platform interaction.
I will stop there for now.
If you find it, please link. Minus the cross platoform and no (harsh) death penalty It would rule the mmorpg genre.
I agree that the statement "if you cant find a MMO that fits you, the problem lies in yourself" is riddiculous. Most games out there are clones of others. There is really not that much variance available.
The only game that gets close to what I want to play is Vanguard, which is currently closing down. The only hope for a game that replaces it sufficiently is Pantheon, which wont be out before 2017 and already looks like a substantial step back in important areas (only 12 abilities at a time, which didnt worked for me at all in Guild Wars, and realtime movements in combat, which puts people with bad ping, such as myself, at a strong disadvantage).
I would like to point out that the game just described wouldnt interest me much either:
- 3 faction PvP: I dont like games that enforce PvP
- No character levels: This at least would make me extremely suspicious for a lack of depth of the rulesystem
- Sandbox world building: this is a kind of gameplay I'm not interested in
- Dynamic Events: in my understanding this is a trickery to force people being online 24/7 to avoid being undergeared. At very least the rewards given out at such events should either be only decorative, or attainable through other ways.
- No harsh death penalty: I avoid any extremes here. Death Penalty should be there. It shouldnt be overly hard, but it also shouldnt be neglible.
This right here is the problem. No game will meet every last bit of your likes or expectations. Most sane adults realize this and try to find a game that will meet MOST of their requirements and make due. But the self-entitled whiners will moan about how all games are clones and how no one game caters to their play style are. One of the previous posters was right: with so many games out there, if you can’t find one that you can enjoy… the problem lies with you and not the market. Maybe it is time for you to move on. How’s that for a personal attack for you over sensitive types?
+1 Exactly.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Consent and free will violations are pretty much front and center as the basis or "right" for common western morality, so why is it that certain groups of MMO players love oh so much to enforce playstyle they prefer onto people that don't prefer those playstyles.
How is this possible? Players don't create the games, they don't make the rules. Nor do they choose what games others play.
Players can complain, threaten to quit or actually quit, but that's about it.
Your favorite MMORPG ever make a change after launch that you didn't like?
Yeah, that was my fault, I made a few calls and spoiled your fun.
I'm just spiteful like that.
If it ever did, I'd just change MMOs or not play at all. I only play games so long as they are fun. When they stop being fun, I stop playing. Why are some people so incapable of understanding that?
Fun is irrelevant. We will force our play style on you. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
How is PvP different from PvE? By that I mean, if you get attacked by a player, how are they not as much a part of the world (or more so even) than that mudcrab you butchered five minutes before? If you've ever played DAoC, you'd know that dungeons in DAoC had roaming mobs that could be ~10 to 20 levels higher than the average monster level in the dungeon. One of those stumbling across your party was just as common as a player, and perhaps this is why I've come to see PvE and PvP as one and the same. PvP is just PvE that doesn't have a guide to tell you what attacks they'll use/what armor to wear/when to dodge.
I would argue that it's simply a sign of mental health. It makes sense when you "finish" something to move on to something else. When you finish reading a good book, do you immediately turn back to page one and read it again? And then again? And again?
If you stop enjoying your relationship do you give up on it or do you try to fix it?
Equating game and relationship, definitely a problem on your side !
Consent and free will violations are pretty much front and center as the basis or "right" for common western morality, so why is it that certain groups of MMO players love oh so much to enforce playstyle they prefer onto people that don't prefer those playstyles.
How is this possible? Players don't create the games, they don't make the rules. Nor do they choose what games others play.
Players can complain, threaten to quit or actually quit, but that's about it.
Your favorite MMORPG ever make a change after launch that you didn't like?
Yeah, that was my fault, I made a few calls and spoiled your fun.
I'm just spiteful like that.
If it ever did, I'd just change MMOs or not play at all. I only play games so long as they are fun. When they stop being fun, I stop playing. Why are some people so incapable of understanding that?
Perhaps because of the overuse of the word fun? It doesn't really mean what you think it does.
For example:enjoyment, amusement, or lighthearted pleasure - some folks look for challenge, difficulty, achievement, that's what they enjoy, doesn't really fit this definition.
Or how about?
behavior or an activity that is intended purely for amusement and should not be interpreted as having serious or malicious purposes - Trust me some folks are quite serious (and malicious in purpose) when they play MMORPG's, so I wouldn't say they are here to have fun.
Did you know this is a noun and not really a formal adjective? The use of fun as an adjective meaning ‘enjoyable, as in <span exgrbreak="" examplenote"=""> we had a fun evening, is now established in informal use, although not accepted in standard English. The comparative and superlative forms funner and funnest, formed as if fun were a standard adjective, should only be used in very informal contexts, typically speech.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I would argue that it's simply a sign of mental health. It makes sense when you "finish" something to move on to something else. When you finish reading a good book, do you immediately turn back to page one and read it again? And then again? And again?
If you stop enjoying your relationship do you give up on it or do you try to fix it?
Equating game and relationship, definitely a problem on your side !
Very much so. I only have ONE wife, and two sons. I play plenty of games. If a game is no fun to me, for whatever trivial reason, i move onto the next one. I cannot do the same with my wife, or kids, or friends.
No no, you're totally right. This elitest "do as I say or you fail" mindset is present in both PvE and PvP.
Secret World- can't play around with your builds because most LFG's want a very strict set of playstyles. Same as Anarchy Online- I couldn't really experiment and build my character as much as I would like to without ridicule or "protips" from many an "elitest".
Smite- Oh boy. Everyone wants to be the Leader in a bad game of Smite, and nobody really tries not to die. My favorite thing is when they have the most deaths on the team, then they have the nerve to spam "Be Careful" as they are waiting to respawn. Another Smite gem is lobby talk- "Please, someone, pick mage or we lose." or "Lvl 10 Bastet- Plz explain why" or "We need tnak plz" (I didn't correct anything- typed as written).
Yeah, people online are so totally awesome- that's why I really only play with my boyfriend. I would like to say, however, for as many elitest jerks I've had the luxury of running into, I've met some really cool higher-level peoples in said games that have been really helpful and not at all bombarding. As much as I may not like much of the online community- I try to approach everyone until I am proven otherwise. "If someone shows you who they are- believe them".
It all boils down exactly as you said, OP- "it's the way of human to be blissfully and ignorantly bigoted and try to dominate and subdue people that don't agree with them because of some perceived strength or level of value to their specific opinion simply because...well, because. But at the same time it just gets hard to wrap my head around it." It's a term called groupthink, where the group is too afraid to respect the individual. They continue to do this throughout our MMO's, and our society, by moving in packs- it makes it easier for them not to feel guilty to have a bunch of people back one opinion. You absolutely cannot reason with these people- believe me, I've tried.
Sorry it's a long post, but I agree with everything you said- it's my only problem with any online community. I'll never argue with an idiot- they'll pull you down to their level and beat you at their own game.
Worst Online Communities: WoW/WoD(the OG MMO Trolls), DayZ/WarZ, SMITE/LoL/DOTA, EVE Online, APB "Im ready for All the comparisons I think its dumb and its embarrassing Im switching off No longer listening Ive had enough of persecution and conditioning Maybe its instinct- Were only animal" - Lily Allen, Sheezus
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Because MMOs are complex things and letting certain players just have what they want because they THINK it'll be convenient and fun, undermines the rest of the game for the rest of the players.
How so?
How does it undermine the game? How does making more people happy undermine the game?
Is this one of those fictitious cases where a group of players can only be happy if the other group is unhappy? Because those types of dynamics have never existed in humanity.
addind more content =/= making a better game
adding more quality content or rather just improving the quality at hand will.
addind more shit without quality for the sake that 5 people might enoy it ruings the initial plan.
a developer should just stick to a certain set of rules and things MMO's are niche. niche mmos in general live very long with a dedicated playerbase. Adding shit so the entire world could enjoy your game just does not work it backfires because all that shit is of horrible quality.
I would argue that it's simply a sign of mental health. It makes sense when you "finish" something to move on to something else. When you finish reading a good book, do you immediately turn back to page one and read it again? And then again? And again?
If you stop enjoying your relationship do you give up on it or do you try to fix it?
Equating game and relationship, definitely a problem on your side !
Very much so. I only have ONE wife, and two sons. I play plenty of games. If a game is no fun to me, for whatever trivial reason, i move onto the next one. I cannot do the same with my wife, or kids, or friends.
Comparing relationships to games is a bit silly but even so, some relationships are so unhealthy or the people so incompatible that they can not be saved and the best thing to do is move on... Kinda like some players and MMOs....
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Originally posted by Magiknight There are NO hardcore PVE MMOs anymore. All of the "Casual" players are forcing their gameplay style on me. This is discrimination! I'm a minority and I have rights too!!!!!
You have the right to vote with your wallet, and voice your opinion.
But no one owe you a MMO you like. You don't have the right to force some devs to make a game you like. And yes, it is discrimination ... but discrimination based on gaming preference is not illegal. Just like i can write a sci-fi novel which has no romance and "discriminate" against all those readers who love romance. It is perfectly legal.
The day where new MMOs are coming out all the time to suit all types of playstyles is when I'll be happy but right now the genre feels so shallow to me in the upcoming year.
With hundreds of MMOs currently available covering countless playstyles and plenty more in development, if you can't find an MMO that caters to your playstyle, the problem isn't MMOs.
Problem is graphical fidelity and up-to-date engines and mechanics and such are fundamental to my enjoyment. I've found that I'm the type of person that can't play a game that's older than 3 years without just feeling disgusted a few minutes in and dropping it altogether.
Heck I can't even play Skyrim anymore.
Not to mention that new MMOs are breaking ground in small ways with every announcement. ESO for example emphasizes exploration unlike any other MMO I've ever seen, and is a sub game which is a must for me. However end-game is PvP based, which literally is a game breaker for me.
And the problem can't not be MMOs. A persons opinion of what they prefer for themselves cannot be a problem, it can't even be wrong.
I like first person view. Now, I can complain that the problem is RTS's not offering enough of that, or I can recognize that I'm looking in the wrong place for it.
I did not say your opinion was wrong. I apologize for the lack of clarity in the previous post. How's this:
If you can't find what you want among the hundreds of MMOs released or in development, then you are looking in the wrong place for what you want. The problem is not the industry.
It really is that simple.
So where exactly does one look for a Massively Multliplayer Online Role Playing Game (with the other criteria I and others have listed) if one does not look among the MMORPG genre?
So lets try this again. As a consumer you have a right to advocate for whatever you want and to not play or pay for anything you don't find enjoyable. That's not forcing your playstyle on anyone else. You have no entitlement to actualy get what you want (other then not being falsely advertised to) but you certainly should expect a right to advocate it...though no one may choose to listen to you. If consumers didn't express in some manner (as a mass) what they want, thier chances of getting it decrease.
That said....if you go into a product that is entirely designed for a different target audience then you, then advocating for that product to change to cater to your play style is futile and counter-productive and you shouldn't be surprised when everyone and thier brother suggest you go elsewhere.
Comments
Well, the golfers were nice enough to share their golf course with you but you then deluded yourself into thinking that it was actually a baseball field. Then you get all huffy when we put back the golf holes you covered up. You see a baseball field when we clearly see that it is actually a golf course and was always meant to be a golf course.
Uhmm..... clearly there is room in the world for both golf courses and baseball fields but having them try to occupy the same space at the same time doesn't work very well. Kinda the point of the post.
When a Designer comes along and says "I'm making a baseball field", golfers really have no just cause to come in and demand that they add golf holes to it so that they can play golf.....just as baseball players have no just cause to demand a Designer of a golf course add a batting cage. Neither is being unreasonable to demand that there by someplace out in the world of MMO's designed for them to pursue thier favored activity both are being unreasonable when they expect EVERY space be built to cater to them.
I will agree with your previous post that Designers are sometimes to blame for this themselves when not being clear or forthright about what the game they are building is focused on or trying to focus on too many incompatible playstyles. I have, however, witnessed plenty of incidents when the Designer was absolutely clear about the focus of thier games and players come in and expect and demand changes that are completely incompatible with the stated design focus. It's like asking to play a Klingon in a game of Dungeons and Dragons.
There is certainly a ego part to it where some people just feel like they know whats best for everyone else even if others might disagree. Add on top of that the anonymous nature of internet forums and people will say a lot of things they would never dream of face to face.
However there is also a resource element to the equation. In a perfect world with unlimited budgets you could create games where all styles of play where supported based on popularity. That's just not how it works though and even the biggest money makers don't have enough development staff to do that (kind of begs the question where is all that money games like LoL, WoW and WoT's are making is going?). What happens is developers have make choices where to spend resources and people who don't like those choices think their part of the game is being neglected because of it.
We are into anecdotal stories here so it is hard for me to judge what you experienced vs what I did. Generally I find that marketing for a game tends to use broad language to entice as many people as it can no matter what the actual reality of the game is. It does not help that they use past games as comparisons which adds the mixed message the old games were sending as well. Customers are given plenty of reason why they should buy a game but almost never reasons why they should not.
You're talking about your dream game vs a game which is close enough that you enjoy it. Probably everybody on this forum has an idea of their dream feature set which doesn't exist in any game. Games that try to cater to everyone at once usually just end up really pleasing no one. You'll probably get closer to the dream game you want if it is developed with you and people like you in mind than if it's trying to appeal to everyone...
How is this possible? Players don't create the games, they don't make the rules. Nor do they choose what games others play.
Players can complain, threaten to quit or actually quit, but that's about it.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Using the Cyrodiil pve example you gave its not that most players have anything against it pve in Cyrodiil but more that developer resources and time are being taken away from other aspects of the game to add something that was not or is not part of the game they have been sold on.
They like/love what they read the eso is going to be so have purchased it and reject anything that diminishes or halts improvement to in this case possibly pvp.
I bet you if a Cyrodiil pve campaign had been included from the start along side a pvp campaign hardly anyone would of mentioned or cared.
Complain until the game changes would seem most likely. TESO could be seen as having been player feedback influenced.
Also talking sh** about upcoming releases with the intent of discrediting them because the design doesn't match their preferred gameplay. SWTOR not being a sandbox being a pretty clear example.
Your favorite MMORPG ever make a change after launch that you didn't like?
Yeah, that was my fault, I made a few calls and spoiled your fun.
I'm just spiteful like that.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If it ever did, I'd just change MMOs or not play at all. I only play games so long as they are fun. When they stop being fun, I stop playing. Why are some people so incapable of understanding that?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
This right here is the problem. No game will meet every last bit of your likes or expectations. Most sane adults realize this and try to find a game that will meet MOST of their requirements and make due. But the self-entitled whiners will moan about how all games are clones and how no one game caters to their play style are. One of the previous posters was right: with so many games out there, if you can’t find one that you can enjoy… the problem lies with you and not the market. Maybe it is time for you to move on. How’s that for a personal attack for you over sensitive types?
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
+1 Exactly.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Fun is irrelevant. We will force our play style on you. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Question for the OP:
How is PvP different from PvE? By that I mean, if you get attacked by a player, how are they not as much a part of the world (or more so even) than that mudcrab you butchered five minutes before? If you've ever played DAoC, you'd know that dungeons in DAoC had roaming mobs that could be ~10 to 20 levels higher than the average monster level in the dungeon. One of those stumbling across your party was just as common as a player, and perhaps this is why I've come to see PvE and PvP as one and the same. PvP is just PvE that doesn't have a guide to tell you what attacks they'll use/what armor to wear/when to dodge.
Equating game and relationship, definitely a problem on your side !
Perhaps because of the overuse of the word fun? It doesn't really mean what you think it does.
For example:enjoyment, amusement, or lighthearted pleasure - some folks look for challenge, difficulty, achievement, that's what they enjoy, doesn't really fit this definition.
Or how about?
behavior or an activity that is intended purely for amusement and should not be interpreted as having serious or malicious purposes - Trust me some folks are quite serious (and malicious in purpose) when they play MMORPG's, so I wouldn't say they are here to have fun.
Did you know this is a noun and not really a formal adjective? The use of fun as an adjective meaning ‘enjoyable, as in <span exgrbreak="" examplenote"=""> we had a fun evening, is now established in informal use, although not accepted in standard English. The comparative and superlative forms funner and funnest, formed as if fun were a standard adjective, should only be used in very informal contexts, typically speech.
So, are we having fun yet?
I'm going to force you to have fun!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Very much so. I only have ONE wife, and two sons. I play plenty of games. If a game is no fun to me, for whatever trivial reason, i move onto the next one. I cannot do the same with my wife, or kids, or friends.
No no, you're totally right. This elitest "do as I say or you fail" mindset is present in both PvE and PvP.
Secret World- can't play around with your builds because most LFG's want a very strict set of playstyles. Same as Anarchy Online- I couldn't really experiment and build my character as much as I would like to without ridicule or "protips" from many an "elitest".
Smite- Oh boy. Everyone wants to be the Leader in a bad game of Smite, and nobody really tries not to die. My favorite thing is when they have the most deaths on the team, then they have the nerve to spam "Be Careful" as they are waiting to respawn. Another Smite gem is lobby talk- "Please, someone, pick mage or we lose." or "Lvl 10 Bastet- Plz explain why" or "We need tnak plz" (I didn't correct anything- typed as written).
Yeah, people online are so totally awesome- that's why I really only play with my boyfriend. I would like to say, however, for as many elitest jerks I've had the luxury of running into, I've met some really cool higher-level peoples in said games that have been really helpful and not at all bombarding. As much as I may not like much of the online community- I try to approach everyone until I am proven otherwise. "If someone shows you who they are- believe them".
It all boils down exactly as you said, OP- "it's the way of human to be blissfully and ignorantly bigoted and try to dominate and subdue people that don't agree with them because of some perceived strength or level of value to their specific opinion simply because...well, because. But at the same time it just gets hard to wrap my head around it." It's a term called groupthink, where the group is too afraid to respect the individual. They continue to do this throughout our MMO's, and our society, by moving in packs- it makes it easier for them not to feel guilty to have a bunch of people back one opinion. You absolutely cannot reason with these people- believe me, I've tried.
Sorry it's a long post, but I agree with everything you said- it's my only problem with any online community. I'll never argue with an idiot- they'll pull you down to their level and beat you at their own game.
Loves: SMITE, WildStar, Project Zomboid, PSO2, DCUO,
Worst Online Communities: WoW/WoD(the OG MMO Trolls), DayZ/WarZ, SMITE/LoL/DOTA, EVE Online, APB
"Im ready for
All the comparisons
I think its dumb and its embarrassing
Im switching off
No longer listening
Ive had enough of persecution and conditioning
Maybe its instinct- Were only animal" - Lily Allen, Sheezus
It is so natural - I do it all the time..
It's sometimes good to enforce stuff on people.
The stupid must obey the wise.
I'm not even certain if I'm kidding here..
addind more content =/= making a better game
adding more quality content or rather just improving the quality at hand will.
addind more shit without quality for the sake that 5 people might enoy it ruings the initial plan.
a developer should just stick to a certain set of rules and things MMO's are niche. niche mmos in general live very long with a dedicated playerbase. Adding shit so the entire world could enjoy your game just does not work it backfires because all that shit is of horrible quality.
Comparing relationships to games is a bit silly but even so, some relationships are so unhealthy or the people so incompatible that they can not be saved and the best thing to do is move on... Kinda like some players and MMOs....
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
You have the right to vote with your wallet, and voice your opinion.
But no one owe you a MMO you like. You don't have the right to force some devs to make a game you like. And yes, it is discrimination ... but discrimination based on gaming preference is not illegal. Just like i can write a sci-fi novel which has no romance and "discriminate" against all those readers who love romance. It is perfectly legal.
So where exactly does one look for a Massively Multliplayer Online Role Playing Game (with the other criteria I and others have listed) if one does not look among the MMORPG genre?
It really is that simple.
So lets try this again. As a consumer you have a right to advocate for whatever you want and to not play or pay for anything you don't find enjoyable. That's not forcing your playstyle on anyone else. You have no entitlement to actualy get what you want (other then not being falsely advertised to) but you certainly should expect a right to advocate it...though no one may choose to listen to you. If consumers didn't express in some manner (as a mass) what they want, thier chances of getting it decrease.
That said....if you go into a product that is entirely designed for a different target audience then you, then advocating for that product to change to cater to your play style is futile and counter-productive and you shouldn't be surprised when everyone and thier brother suggest you go elsewhere.