Originally posted by BluePhoenix09 You'd think that game companies would have learned from the debacle of FFXIV's first iteration where they didn't have an auction house. Total disaster is what happened then, and, no matter how you want to make it "immersive", players don't care when it comes to buying and selling. They want CONVENIENCE.
You want convenience? Go play hello kitty online...
OT, removal of AH is good IMO. AH only creates inflation, as seen with many MMO and prices of items are very rigid. One sword would sell for 100g (for example) and a year later still sells for 100g (if not more).
BUT....
This only would work IF they have an EvE-like economy system (not the spreadsheet thingy). That is prices differ from region to region, and have a dedicated trader class.
ESO should just do what EQ did, Create a Nexus trading post. Instance it off and be done with it. How ever many players that care to go there can just deal with that. To have it tied up and limited to a population cap, a LOW population cap, is just terrible design.
Either something else has to be added, because it is too late to change it, or remove it, something like even free trade for those that have the skills but not the desire to join a guild.
This has been tried and abysmally failed on several mmos over the last few years. Every time have seen it that game was torn apart and a huge chunk of the playerbase left over it. Huge mistake IMO. Maybe the new ESO reborn 2017 where they wise up and release a full game for that large price tag.
And those that don't get why people MMO but not PvP or group to level... That conversation is done. It's old. Mainstream games have tried to enforce social leveling, and it's killed them.
So before all the "why play an mmo if you don't wanna...." Bull dirt, bear in mind this conversation has been done to death, and you lost it every time. Get over it already. zenimax will learn the hard way like several other MMO's. You want mainstream success? You provide mainstream features.
Wonder why almost all these older games eventually put in an automated selling system? I played EQ15 odd years ago and remember the trading cave. Fun for a week or two, eventually , as a crafter/trader, I ran out of patience. Often waiting hours for people to turn up to buy items only for them to start by offering 50% of what they previously said they'd pay.
realising you spent 3 hours in game and done nothing. But create spam, read spam and wait. But that was ok, as everyone else was doing the same.
also enforced PvP. Oh dear. Way to alienate 75% of your player base potential.
Originally posted by Stuka1000 Incorporate player owned housing where the players can set up a shop aka SWG, problem solved. No all encompassing AH and the best crafters will become known across the server. As a bonus gold sellers are still very much inconvenienced, it's a win win.
O cool didin't know they did that in SWG. Yeah PSO didin't have an AH or player shops and trading would be a risk to the player ( I got a duped weapon and soon vanished loosing a level 114 character ;/ ). Then PSU came and had exactly what you described for SWG. You could even lock your shop if you wanted some privacy and still use your room , for mesing with trinkets etc. Indeed problem solved , I would never go back to the PSO system ever.
Can't believe some people replying here thinks it's a good move not to have at least a player shop , very amusing , you just wait and see people .
Cheers,
BadOrb.
SWG was pretty good for crafters, they were supported and encouraged to 'trade'. One of my Toons was a Weaponsmith, i had 2 houses altogether, one was a residence, and right next to it was a much smaller workshop/store where my npc vendors were, along with all my crafting consoles, which were the highest quality ones i could get, my 'shop' was also on dantooine, not too far from the mining outpost which was a fairly popular place, so i never really lacked for customers, not because i had the best weapons, but just because they were good, and 'affordable'.
Some games are designed to encourage/support the crafting community, which imo, is a far larger one than the PvP community, but when it comes to games that support the crafting community, then from the look of things so far, ESO is not one of them. Though i think the guy who suggested having a guild made up of 100 crafters etc, with spots open for 'temporary' members for shopping will probably turn out to be fairly 'prophetic' that might well be the optimum method of trading within the game, i really don't think the guild stores in keeps is going to be viable as most crafters are not PvP orientated, and playing at their own pace rather than being forced to try and maintain a 'keep shop' may be far more trouble than it is worth.
there will be gold farming, and lots of chat spam. To get rid of the chat spam u need channel for that or auction house, for the gold farming the only way is like Wildstar/TERA etc. to put 30days subscription items that can be bought with real money and sold in the game.
This is a very honorable attempt to do something new with the guild system in ESO. Even if it doesnt do well, i have to give them kudos for their creativity. The guild/trade system seems to be the most interesting in any mmorpg in the last years. Guilds will really try to defend their keeps, because of the good trading points. Trading guilds will form and it will be a player driven economy without any magical auction house. Lets see how it works out.
And i love to see all the same names, that are posting for 12 months now, that they will not play ESO and keep hitting those "post" buttons again, spilling their hate
As much as I like the idea, I think a better solution would have been regional auction houses.
I.e. if you sell something in Daggerfall it only shows up in the Daggerfall market.
Regional auction houses could take a 30% cut of the revenue, but the pvp keep model could have a 0% cut if you sell there, providing plenty of incentive to sell your best (most expensive) gear via a keep.
*shrugs* I'll live with the current model though.
With 1. removing the red target outline (its optional), 2. turning off quest makers and 3. collision detection I'm going to be a happy pig in shit however the markets work.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76) Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
What people doesnt realize is that an AH would never work. It's 2 megaservers, there aint any fraction servers. So it would be like billions on billions items.
No single player monopolising a commodity and driving the prices to insane levels.
No single group controlling a market and driving the prices to insane levels.
No gold farmers rorting the entire AH to sell gold by driving the prices to insane levels.
Real human interaction.
Honestly, this single thing has almost got me buying the game.
thats what i also think.
ppl complain about stuff couse the dont know it better or are lazy.
the assumption u are forced to make pvp is just absolutley wrong, u dont even have to enter cyrodiil to buy stuff, u can INTERACT with players.. "OMG I HAVE TO SPEAK TO OTHERS AND HAVE TO BE NICE" instead of being a troll, wich is one of the reasons the novadays comunitys are not that smart... there will be crafters, and when they are good, u will hear from them just by propaganda. also to prevent spam u can just make an trade channel, u want to buy stuff u enter end read the spam, if not disable it, or just go to ur favorite crafter and order the stuff u want to have.
Welcome to "Wholesalers of Tamriel", our guild consists of 100 crafters who make EVERYTHING. The other 400 spots are reserved for "customers". You get an invite for 1 hour, get to take your time browing the shop, then get kicked out by our friendly "storefront staff". Come back soon!
There, i just solved the entire auction house problem.
And that actually sounds like fun.
Global auction houses just feel like NPC vendors. Good riddance IMO.
What people doesnt realize is that an AH would never work. It's 2 megaservers, there aint any fraction servers. So it would be like billions on billions items.
Thats how you make a game crash.
That is probably why the only 'shops' will be in Cyrodiil, each campaign (instance) will have its own 'shops' in effect, though that means trading would be extremely limited, which might just be why they are allowing membership of multiple guilds, and also cross faction membership, without that then trade within the game would be dead in the water. Rather than being an attempt at innovation, it looks to me that what ZOS is offering is a 'workaround' to offset server limitations. Whether it works is debateable, there is a reason why MMO's with crafting have AH's and that is for player convenience.
If enough folks want auction houses then my guess will be there will be, just maybe not at the start but Devs have the ability not to pay attention at times.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
While discovering WildStar is the biggest grindfest-carebear MMO I've ever played this contender is growing on me. Good job Zenimax.. eventually I'll play ESO at release. Although it's kinda odd.. some months ago my impressions for TESO couldn't been worse.
I like this idea though I understand people being afraid of chat spam in cities, that said I actually have an idea that I wish Zenimax would try out to stop WTB/WTS/WTT spamming and end scams at the same time. That is to completely remove player to player trading from the game, make it impossible to trade with any player so players have to buy from stores. An integral part of this system for not completely ruining it would be including a system for players to open dedicated stores for selling their wares (think something similar to SWG), the good crafters would become well known and spam would die. Additionally a item GIFT option between players on your friend list would allow you to give items to your friends but not gold (to stop people from setting up a pseudo trade system). I think it could be made to work along with the guild store system to allow an interesting virtual economy to emerge without the annoying spam that comes with their current system.
I liked. Will open the possibility of be a merchant, not just a crafter. You can make something and find the better place to sell. You can build a reputation, like was in Ragnarok Online.
Your guild can be really something now, and merchant players will be needed. And if the keeps work like was the War of Emperium (RO) I will love it.
Originally posted by achesoma They should make a merchant skill line where players can put up vendors, shops, and bazaars of sorts depending on how deep in the skill-line players go.
I worry, I haven't played the game yet and won't until I get my pre-order.
Those beta keys are evil in the sense of temptation without compensation. Though I guess most truthfully it will destroy immersion and I will min max again-ish.
I like crafting, I like selling, an actual reason to craft other than me and 1 million people have the "helmet of doom" to sell. I sort of like the guild AH idea except as an anti social loner who plays MMO's Call it "pale Rider syndrome" rather than "black man down syndrome".
fucking sticky keys fuck off.
I like PvP, I like fighting for 1 side, I like alone most of the time.
This system lets me come in and trade to support the team I chose to support, I support it-ish.
I wonder how easy to be a quintuple agent and play myself to confusion when only 3 sides exist in game. Poly-(a)-dor,(e) films or crackers ? ANSWER THE QUESTION WE HAVE WAYS OF MAKING YOU NO LONGER SPEAK ON OUR SITE, simple javascript with a nice, are you stupid we are clever. Juyst.......
ASS FOR-WARDING CHAT, do a win8 on me again with lucky charms, google glasses I can accept for people who do not have eyes to see. If you are not blind and you are wearing google glasses, accept I will punch you in the face. Thus is a social contract born. Jason, matt, damon, deamon. Clavell to last drunken Samurai, foriegnor in a strange land. Loki-ish ?
What the fuck you drinking lol I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about.. Very amusing though
Originally posted by achesoma They should make a merchant skill line where players can put up vendors, shops, and bazaars of sorts depending on how deep in the skill-line players go.
You Sir, win the thread !!!!
I agree, I also think all the crafting disciplines should have their own skill lines (Blacksmithing, Alchemy, Clothing, Woodworking, Provisioning) that way someone who TRULY wants to be a good crafter will have to base their character around it rather than it just being a side activity. Any character would be able to craft or fight, but players would have to choose whether to dedicate their character to one or the other. I've always loved the idea of crafting being like a full time occupation for a character.
Originally posted by Cybercoco No, players will not make the system work for them. They will complain, they will demand, and Zenimax will be forced to comply. Mark my words.
Pretty much this. If they start to lose customers over this, and/or enough people complain about it, you can probably bet they will put an AH in. I'm willing to bet they already have a working system that they are testing internally that is almost ready to be put into place when needed. <--- That will also be their excuse for not having one at launch too probably.
Comments
You want convenience? Go play hello kitty online...
OT, removal of AH is good IMO. AH only creates inflation, as seen with many MMO and prices of items are very rigid. One sword would sell for 100g (for example) and a year later still sells for 100g (if not more).
BUT....
This only would work IF they have an EvE-like economy system (not the spreadsheet thingy). That is prices differ from region to region, and have a dedicated trader class.
ESO should just do what EQ did, Create a Nexus trading post. Instance it off and be done with it. How ever many players that care to go there can just deal with that. To have it tied up and limited to a population cap, a LOW population cap, is just terrible design.
Either something else has to be added, because it is too late to change it, or remove it, something like even free trade for those that have the skills but not the desire to join a guild.
And those that don't get why people MMO but not PvP or group to level... That conversation is done. It's old. Mainstream games have tried to enforce social leveling, and it's killed them.
So before all the "why play an mmo if you don't wanna...." Bull dirt, bear in mind this conversation has been done to death, and you lost it every time. Get over it already. zenimax will learn the hard way like several other MMO's. You want mainstream success? You provide mainstream features.
Wonder why almost all these older games eventually put in an automated selling system? I played EQ15 odd years ago and remember the trading cave. Fun for a week or two, eventually , as a crafter/trader, I ran out of patience. Often waiting hours for people to turn up to buy items only for them to start by offering 50% of what they previously said they'd pay.
realising you spent 3 hours in game and done nothing. But create spam, read spam and wait. But that was ok, as everyone else was doing the same.
also enforced PvP. Oh dear. Way to alienate 75% of your player base potential.
SWG was pretty good for crafters, they were supported and encouraged to 'trade'. One of my Toons was a Weaponsmith, i had 2 houses altogether, one was a residence, and right next to it was a much smaller workshop/store where my npc vendors were, along with all my crafting consoles, which were the highest quality ones i could get, my 'shop' was also on dantooine, not too far from the mining outpost which was a fairly popular place, so i never really lacked for customers, not because i had the best weapons, but just because they were good, and 'affordable'.
Some games are designed to encourage/support the crafting community, which imo, is a far larger one than the PvP community, but when it comes to games that support the crafting community, then from the look of things so far, ESO is not one of them. Though i think the guy who suggested having a guild made up of 100 crafters etc, with spots open for 'temporary' members for shopping will probably turn out to be fairly 'prophetic' that might well be the optimum method of trading within the game, i really don't think the guild stores in keeps is going to be viable as most crafters are not PvP orientated, and playing at their own pace rather than being forced to try and maintain a 'keep shop' may be far more trouble than it is worth.
Fuck With The Best, Die Like The Rest!!!
This is a very honorable attempt to do something new with the guild system in ESO. Even if it doesnt do well, i have to give them kudos for their creativity. The guild/trade system seems to be the most interesting in any mmorpg in the last years. Guilds will really try to defend their keeps, because of the good trading points. Trading guilds will form and it will be a player driven economy without any magical auction house. Lets see how it works out.
And i love to see all the same names, that are posting for 12 months now, that they will not play ESO and keep hitting those "post" buttons again, spilling their hate
Hodor!
As much as I like the idea, I think a better solution would have been regional auction houses.
I.e. if you sell something in Daggerfall it only shows up in the Daggerfall market.
Regional auction houses could take a 30% cut of the revenue, but the pvp keep model could have a 0% cut if you sell there, providing plenty of incentive to sell your best (most expensive) gear via a keep.
*shrugs* I'll live with the current model though.
With 1. removing the red target outline (its optional), 2. turning off quest makers and 3. collision detection I'm going to be a happy pig in shit however the markets work.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
What people doesnt realize is that an AH would never work. It's 2 megaservers, there aint any fraction servers. So it would be like billions on billions items.
Thats how you make a game crash.
thats what i also think.
ppl complain about stuff couse the dont know it better or are lazy.
the assumption u are forced to make pvp is just absolutley wrong, u dont even have to enter cyrodiil to buy stuff, u can INTERACT with players.. "OMG I HAVE TO SPEAK TO OTHERS AND HAVE TO BE NICE" instead of being a troll, wich is one of the reasons the novadays comunitys are not that smart... there will be crafters, and when they are good, u will hear from them just by propaganda. also to prevent spam u can just make an trade channel, u want to buy stuff u enter end read the spam, if not disable it, or just go to ur favorite crafter and order the stuff u want to have.
And that actually sounds like fun.
Global auction houses just feel like NPC vendors. Good riddance IMO.
That is probably why the only 'shops' will be in Cyrodiil, each campaign (instance) will have its own 'shops' in effect, though that means trading would be extremely limited, which might just be why they are allowing membership of multiple guilds, and also cross faction membership, without that then trade within the game would be dead in the water. Rather than being an attempt at innovation, it looks to me that what ZOS is offering is a 'workaround' to offset server limitations. Whether it works is debateable, there is a reason why MMO's with crafting have AH's and that is for player convenience.
MAGA
Elite: Dangerous - Space Exploration & Trading.
No auction house and guilds can set up shops in claimed keeps? This game just got a little more interesting!
I might just play longer than the initial 30 days - Providing my gaming community also does, anyhow.
I liked. Will open the possibility of be a merchant, not just a crafter. You can make something and find the better place to sell. You can build a reputation, like was in Ragnarok Online.
Your guild can be really something now, and merchant players will be needed. And if the keeps work like was the War of Emperium (RO) I will love it.
You Sir, win the thread !!!!
What the fuck you drinking lol I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about.. Very amusing though
I agree, I also think all the crafting disciplines should have their own skill lines (Blacksmithing, Alchemy, Clothing, Woodworking, Provisioning) that way someone who TRULY wants to be a good crafter will have to base their character around it rather than it just being a side activity. Any character would be able to craft or fight, but players would have to choose whether to dedicate their character to one or the other. I've always loved the idea of crafting being like a full time occupation for a character.
Pretty much this. If they start to lose customers over this, and/or enough people complain about it, you can probably bet they will put an AH in. I'm willing to bet they already have a working system that they are testing internally that is almost ready to be put into place when needed. <--- That will also be their excuse for not having one at launch too probably.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor