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"Trolls just want to have fun"

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Comments

  • StonesDKStonesDK Member UncommonPosts: 1,805

    I think "troubled" people will do troubling things online but there's no real proof that "normal" people doesn't engage in that sort of thing as well from time to time.

     

    To suggest it's only people with mental conditions that trolls or ganks in games is kind of ignorant regardless of any study

  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 1,015
    Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    For people who have said that gankers are sadists, this does add some fuel to the fire.

    Didn't need a study for that, could just review what happened with twink BGs in WoW.

     

    A loud sub-section of PvPers screamed up and down the WoW forums for their special twink level locked BGs. They made such a convincing argument that Blizzard complied and gave it to them.

     

    Guess what happened? They became abandoned as soon as the novelty wore off.

     

    Why?

     

    Because the PvPers weren't looking for a challenge in fighting other level locked PvPers in best gear, they "enjoyed" ganking more.

     

    -_-

     

    PvP is lowest common denominator "fun", and yes, practiced by players who don't care if a level 90 kills level 50s over and over and over. It's not about honor, it's purely about kill counts.

    not exactly true.. problem was that there was too many twink brackets and not enough players interested in twinking.

    who said anything about honor? it's about fun and competition. but ofc some cant handle that and take it too far just to stroke their own ego. 

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • LauraFrostLauraFrost Member Posts: 95

     

    Am I the only one who was singing this when I read the title?

     

    I come to the forums in the morning light
    My mother says when you gonna live your life right
    Oh mother dear we're not the fortunate ones
    And Trolls they want to have fun
    Oh Trolls just want to have fun

    In my parents basement in the middle of the night
    My father yells what you gonna do with your life
    Oh daddy dear you know you're still number one
    But Trolls they want to have fun
    Oh Trolls just want to have

    That's all they really want 
    Some fun
    When the working day is done
    Trolls- they want to have fun
    Oh Trolls just want to have fun

    Some boys take a beautiful girl
    And hide her away from the rest of the world
    I want to be the Troll who doesn't ever get laid
    Oh Trolls they want to have fun
    Oh Trolls just want to have 

    That's all they really want
    Some fun
    When the working day is done
    Trolls- they want to have fun
    Oh Trolls just want to have fun,
    They want to have fun,
    They want to have fun...

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    For people who have said that gankers are sadists, this does add some fuel to the fire.

    Didn't need a study for that, could just review what happened with twink BGs in WoW.

     

    A loud sub-section of PvPers screamed up and down the WoW forums for their special twink level locked BGs. They made such a convincing argument that Blizzard complied and gave it to them.

     

    Guess what happened? They became abandoned as soon as the novelty wore off.

     

    Why?

     

    Because the PvPers weren't looking for a challenge in fighting other level locked PvPers in best gear, they "enjoyed" ganking more.

     

    -_-

     

    PvP is lowest common denominator "fun", and yes, practiced by players who don't care if a level 90 kills level 50s over and over and over. It's not about honor, it's purely about kill counts.

    not exactly true.. problem was that there was too many twink brackets and not enough players interested in twinking.

    who said anything about honor? it's about fun and competition. but ofc some cant handle that and take it too far just to stroke their own ego. 

    There's no competition when a level 90 is killing level 50s, who don't even have half the abilities to fight anyway. -_-

     

    Learn the difference between actual competition and facerolling.

     

    Secondly, the tier brackets they'd play and most popular were affected -- especially, level 19 (which wouldn't have a shortage because the ease to farm/buy lower level BiS gear -- no heroic daily locks, just the 5 instances per hour limit -- and trial accounts can engage in it).

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by LauraFrost

     

    Am I the only one who was singing this when I read the title?

     

    I come to the forums in the morning light
    My mother says when you gonna live your life right
    Oh mother dear we're not the fortunate ones
    And Trolls they want to have fun
    Oh Trolls just want to have fun

    In my parents basement in the middle of the night
    My father yells what you gonna do with your life
    Oh daddy dear you know you're still number one
    But Trolls they want to have fun
    Oh Trolls just want to have

    That's all they really want 
    Some fun
    When the working day is done
    Trolls- they want to have fun
    Oh Trolls just want to have fun

    Some boys take a beautiful girl
    And hide her away from the rest of the world
    I want to be the Troll who doesn't ever get laid
    Oh Trolls they want to have fun
    Oh Trolls just want to have 

    That's all they really want
    Some fun
    When the working day is done
    Trolls- they want to have fun
    Oh Trolls just want to have fun,
    They want to have fun,
    They want to have fun...

     

    This was not my intent, but I'm glad it happened. :-)

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by StonesDK I think "troubled" people will do troubling things online but there's no real proof that "normal" people doesn't engage in that sort of thing as well from time to time.   To suggest it's only people with mental conditions that trolls or ganks in games is kind of ignorant regardless of any study
     

    They are publishing the results of their study.  They show a correlation between "Internet Troll" behavior and indicators of sadism in personality profiles.  Their choice of words tells us this is only step 1 of a fairly long process.  Correlation does not equal causation.  People with sadism indicators in their personality profile do not necessarily exhibit "Internet Troll" behavior, and people without those indicators do not necessarily avoid "Internet Troll" behavior.  There's just a correlation between the two things.

    Further tests and actual experiments are necessary to show causation or a direct link rather than an indirect link. A third variable, such as upbringing may cause both the "Internet Troll" behavior and the sadism indicators. In that case the sadism indicators, like the "Internet Troll" behavior are results, not causes.

    Anyway, the question is whether or not similar behavior exhibited in video games would also lead us to think that there are sadism indicators in personality profiles. We don't know this from the study because they weren't studying video game behaviors.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • LoverNoFighterLoverNoFighter Member Posts: 294

    Red = dead.

    Gank or be ganked.

     

    2 simple rules to remember and everything will be fine.

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Anyway, the question is whether or not similar behavior exhibited in video games would also lead us to think that there are sadism indicators in personality profiles. We don't know this from the study because they weren't studying video game behaviors.

     

    Video game behavior is no different than behavior in RL. There's plenty of adnormal psychology research in human behavior and what happens in group content (or faced with peer pressure). Some of the infamous psychology experiments -- like the Stanford Prison Experiment -- shows what happens if a small amount of people get some type of power and free to abuse it. If it's not regulated (or at least closely monitored), the detrimental effects are no different than experiencing torture.

     

    That's NOT healthy for social groups in gaming.

     

    What is healthy is people getting together to have constructive fun, and with perfect strangers to do so. It can happen, as we all experienced PuGs/PuRs that were exceptional. But the right psychological makeup is needed. It takes but one troll/sadist/sociopath to spoil the fun for many.

     

    Now SOE is claiming they will be more aggressive in banning antisocial behavior in their games, but the big question is what metrics will they use to do so -- since we know what SOE did back in 2005 with players who disagreed with the direction of the game (and thus, how WoW became popular that year onward). A troll group could complain that a "normal" gamer was the troll in their group, and it'll be a mess trying to find out w-h-a-t is socially acceptable in online groups.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Anyway, the question is whether or not similar behavior exhibited in video games would also lead us to think that there are sadism indicators in personality profiles. We don't know this from the study because they weren't studying video game behaviors.

     

    Video game behavior is no different than behavior in RL. There's plenty of adnormal psychology research in human behavior and what happens in group content (or faced with peer pressure). Some of the infamous psychology experiments -- like the Stanford Prison Experiment -- shows what happens if a small amount of people get some type of power and free to abuse it. If it's not regulated (or at least closely monitored), the detrimental effects are no different than experiencing torture.

     

    That's NOT healthy for social groups in gaming.

     

    What is healthy is people getting together to have constructive fun, and with perfect strangers to do so. It can happen, as we all experienced PuGs/PuRs that were exceptional. But the right psychological makeup is needed. It takes but one troll/sadist/sociopath to spoil the fun for many.

     

    Now SOE is claiming they will be more aggressive in banning antisocial behavior in their games, but the big question is what metrics will they use to do so -- since we know what SOE did back in 2005 with players who disagreed with the direction of the game (and thus, how WoW became popular that year onward). A troll group could complain that a "normal" gamer was the troll in their group, and it'll be a mess trying to find out w-h-a-t is socially acceptable in online groups.

    I wouldn't want the job of weeding out trolls from a game.  Especially when developers give such mixed messages on what acceptable behavior is.  Would a developer consider repeatedly killing low level players "troll" behavior?  Apparently not.  There was a rogue that would sit on the road near South Shore and Tarren Mills killing any and all Alliance players regardless of level who tried to travel that way.  For Alliance players, there was no other path, so if they could not get past him, they could not continue leveling.  People put up a website dedicated to hating this guy.  I wish I could find it because it was epic.  This is the epitome of troll behavior, but Blizzard never stepped in because to them, on a PvP server, it was not trolling.  At least it wasn't bannable trolling.

     

    It would be very interesting to find that guy and see what kind of personality he (she?) has. 

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • PednickPednick Member UncommonPosts: 28
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Not directly related to people who gank lowbies for fun, but possibly related, hence the discussion.  Basically, some researchers asked people a bunch of questions about their behavior on the internet.  Then they did a personality profile, in particular looking for sadist, narcissism, psychopathy and Machiavellianism.  What they found was a correlation between the people who flagged as sadists and those who claimed to enjoy trolling and "expressed sadistic glee at the distress of others".

     

    For people who have said that gankers are sadists, this does add some fuel to the fire.  What are those gankers who kill all those lowbies if not trolls?  For people who have said repeatedly that those people have no sadistic tendencies and are just normal people, the research would suggest otherwise.

     

    What do you think?  Do you think those gankers, the high level rogues hanging out in low level areas killing people to watch them squirm do indeed have sadistic tendencies, enough that they would flag as sadists on a personality profile?  How does this reflect on the rest of the "OW/FFA PvP" crowd?  Can games like Mortal Online or Darkfall be populated by nothing but sadists?  Is that even possible?

     

    Discuss.

     

    Sources:

    Massively Article: "The Daily Grind: Does griefing in MMOs reflect a sinister personality?"

    Psychology Research : "Trolls just want to have fun"

     

     Instead of the word "troll" I would use the term "griefer" which sounds more accurate but I don't PvP so It's really not a concern of mine but I do think those kind of players need to grow up.

    "An it harm none, do what thou wilt"

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