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Ways to make subs better values
Kyleran
Member LegendaryPosts: 44,058
Argument came up in another thread the reason MMO's can't maintain subs these days is they don't offer any better value than their F2P brethren.
So I got to thinking what sort of features could a MMO contain that would justify paying regular or even premium sub fees?
EVE is a special snowflake of features that encourages a small but loyal following which results in sub numbers that are respectable, even if they don't reach WOW standards by any means.
WOW continues to hold a strong sub base, despite recent declines, one could argue the sheer amount of content, coupled with people's familiarity of the title, it's strong controls also make it a special title as well.
But aside from creating value like these two titles have, what other features might be worth a sub fee to you?
In my case I'd pay extra for more active involvement of game masters, who actively walked the game world like they did in times of lore, resolving problems in game, meting out justice, enforcing role playing rules, running special events and in general just interacting with the community.
I can think of a few more, but I'd like to see what everyone comes up with. (or points to other titles that appear to be doing it right in terms of holding a good sub base)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Cool idea OP, but i'm not sure i'd pay a sub for that myself.
I guess i'd pay for a game that keeps me engaged, whether that means playing every month or atleast making me want to return eventually. How that's achived besides pvp, i don't know.
Problem is that what constitutes a 'better' value is subjective.
Imho, subs already provide a better value. The poster you are referring to, does not.
Because I can't think of one f2p/sub game in which I prefer the f2p over the sub option, it's a hard question -
The sub usually already provides:
- all classes available
- all races available
- all content available
- all drops available
plus lots of other random perks depending on the game - like SOE's insta-cash for example.
But if really pressed.....
I haven't seen gear visually unique to sub players
Do some games have some titles available to subs only? I think so...like 'founder' or something.
How about content available only through sub - can't buy it on the market.
Or gear available only through sub - can't buy or unlock it.
Problem there is that games would have to balance it. I'd be afraid we'd end up seeing stuff only available on the market, not even to a sub player. And my guess is that there are already things like that - WoW's store mounts for example.
I dunno -
I've always thought that people who understood value would always sub. And because there are more people who don't understand value, there will always be more f2p players. Not to say that there aren't misers/penny-pinchers who know exactly how to create more value out of f2p; but I believe these are relatively few in number - and I admire their patience.
In any case, I still think that subs have already proved the better value - for me. And I doubt you could add more without destroying the balance.
Well, I'm not going to disagree, I think subs provide an overall value as you have mentioned, but I was looking for perhaps some unique things they might not offer currently that would entice people to either sub or even pay a premium sub fee for?
I mean, give me an automatic "I Win" button that I can push once a day on anyone, regardless of faction and they get $29.99 a month from me.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Probably nothing.
Even a great game like Diablo 3 (or becoming a great game, depending on whom you ask) cannot charge a sub .. .and that is essentially how i play MMOs.
The best they can do (for me) is make it a good SP co-op game, and i may pay a box price for it. Sub? There are plenty of good games out there ... i would not pay the same game month in and month out.
Fair enough, just like some folks don't believe in paying for premium cable channels, because they find the regular fee (or heck, maybe they don't even sub to cable) provides sufficient entertainment value.
But if you absolutely can't be swayed into paying, you're probably not a target for this conversation.
But really, nothing could be offered to convince you to pay for it?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A. Publishers and devs who have the intestinal fortitude to handle the horde that can and will criticize boneheaded game designs...and not ban over it. As there's no better feedback than from the trenches, not some promotional guild that's paid to play, and the last time they were in a trench is with their own guild (e.g., totally removed from the realities of the game itself).
B. PvE is PvE. PvP is PvP. The two don't mix in the world. Want FFA PvP play it in a FFA PvP game or server. Then dev teams can work independently from each other and not tear a game apart over those stats and ROLES.
C. A light rail of quests and events in an otherwise adventure game (to get a player retracked in a game if they're been in the wilds too long), where the goal is to develop your character over time, with stats and play styles YOU prefer (i.e., that strength stat has to come from some hard adventuring and carrying goods back). Want to raid for gear, fine. Want to PvP on your own server or instance, fine. But that guy who loves to find the highest peaks to climb, seeking the neatest treasures hidden high above the clouds -- or miles under the sea, or across a desert larger than Jupiter -- he is equally rewarded (e.g., a treasure seeking occupation -- plus, for Christ's sake expand that EQ2 shiny system as it's so freaking addicting, too!).
D. Game has 1001 video/screenshoot options so the adventurer can document his travels as keepsakes. I'd love to see a MUCH better adventure journal to preview and share, more so than yet another boring combat move. Twitch, YouTube, Facebook and Twitter aren't adventure journals, it's generic social media never designed for it and feels just the same (innovation anywhere out there in Devland?). SOE throw in a Vegalite program as well -- with greenscreen -- so video makers can have fun. 10 years now, and few tools to actually enjoy making scrapbooks of our toons...10 years! -_-
E. An armorsmith or tailor to redye our gear: so when we finally do win a RNG piece of gear after 100 runs -- and did so because we like the style of that gear -- so we don't have to live with a puke green piece of vomit. And in games like EvE -- rally strips and corp insignias on our ships!
There's so many things publishers can do to make their game worth subbing for -- IF -- those publishers/devs would get out there and actually do it. It's murder to even get them to pay attention to improve their UI (Hello, CCP??!!), as it is.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
if i am to pay for box and a sub then i want potential access to ALL the game. (this does not mean ill have it, i still need to grind/loot/kill earn stuff)
thats it. Im sick and tired of games that double dip. You are either a FTP game with a cash shop or you are a Sub Game.
and if you do offer sub, then i better have access to everything in the cash shop somehow, wether grinding or loot. or time based.
having said that... if you offer xp potions, resurect potions and skins that are only available on the cash shop, you can bet your ass that i wont be paying a sub.
15$/month oh but you need resurect orbs... and xp boosters... and possibly this exclusive st-patrick skin only if you pay us more.
make subs better value?
you make it sub exclusive game.
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More content is what makes subs have better value in the form of mini-expansions which are included in the sub price, or GM run events or player content. Give me something entertainig to do that i haven't done many times before and I'll happily pay your sub fee.
I would not pay extra for GMs that were just glorified babysitters though. I'm old enough not to need a babysitter.
A better value? We already know they aren't spending it on maintaining the persistent world. We know the game and graphics won't be updated.
You mean, what could make subscriptions a better value, besides what could make it a better value?
I'd pay devs to leave us alone and fix and add. I wont pay them to be up in our shit constantly.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I'm gonna pick on you a bit for this paragraph. I wouldn't say that F2P players are people who don't understand value (because the value of entertainment is highly subjective), but I would say that have a different view of value than you do.
Take a look at the massive amount of online games that are available as B2P or F2P right now, this is not limited to mmos, but all games with online access. Across numerous games available, a singular sub fee mmo cannot compare to the amount of sub free content available.
I think the decline of the sub really boils down to a numbers game. In the early days, online access for games was very limited, and I dare say most mmo gamers were pretty loyal to the game of their choosing. Now, well I feel more people play a larger variety of games instead of just playing their 1-2 games. In a given week a gamer might play numerous games throughout the week. Sure they might have their one game that they play the most, but that's not their sole game anymore.
Honestly, I feel there isn't much value you can add to a sub to compete with the market in general. Subs are simply a barrier for entry.
I would pay a sub (maybe even a higher sub than current rates) for something different. That something different would be a world simulation with lots of other things to do besides combat. They would include government and politics, realistic economy, territory control, realistic warfare, the ability to control a 'family' of characters, perma-death, training, systems that promote not only adventurer type characters but 'stay at home' ones as well etc. Essentially, I would like to see a realistic cross between a strategy game and an RPG where the player has to manage individual toons, his or her family, businesses and politics. Not every toon should be a 'hero'. Players should have the ability to switch between multiple toons and do different things.
This would be a totally new MMO concept and I would be willing to pay for that. Other new ideas would be welcome as well but it seems we are getting the same old thing time after time with a new skin.
Subscriptions for the sake of employing developers? no
There was a clear and defined reason for subs, it was a total lie, but people would spend a lot more if developers goal was keeping people instead of sharing people with the competition.
Bring back a reason for subs and they will flourish.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Nothing personal, but you are a perfect example of player best fitted for F2P games.
As I mentioned in some other post, “…free to play models besides attracting players who will never pay, also attract people who do not have either playing time planned, or do not have specific interest to play specific game, and they do that for pure relaxation/entertaining purposes and very occasionally. They do not like subscription, because it requires steady interest and planning of activities. They are not very loyal game supporters. They can easily jump from one game to another. They do not invest any devotion, or emotional attachment to specific game. They are like game world swingers.
Unfortunately, there is some damaging aftereffect to this. Those people usually enthusiastically promote F2P financial model.
They do not care about specific game success, because they can easily swing to another one. They almost never understand, that this is they who mostly caused this game failure in a time.
In free to play models of all sorts incoming money could be predicted only statistically at best (in opposite to P2P with planned income)
No reliable plans (It means no farther game development, only maintenance), or job securities could be provided for serious consideration. Large crowd of paying nothing players, who will still require hardware resources (additional servers cost, maintenance cost), is not a positive factor either.
Getting into F2P actually slowly kills the game. Because it slowly kills the reliable base of devoted players, replacing them with tourists.
kyle I feel like i have to give two sets of answers.
one answer for a free/mium game that offers sub or "free" usually meaning cash shop
another answer for a new sub only title tat would like my money, tyvm.
for the free/mium game I think i would quantify my feelings as follows.
-firstly I think the game in general needs to be up to my personal standards of "triple A mmo" the details of which are for arguing in another thread.
-secondly i have to feel like my 15$ isnt merely a donation to the dev team. in other words I would have to feel as if i'm getting something for my money as compared to playing for free (rift, tera- since i'm a founder in tera- are both good games but i dont feel the 15$ is getting me anything i cant live with if I am playing them. though i think they are both good games in their own right and have fair FTP systems)
as for what the free/mium game could offer to get me to pony up... i know this is controversial but a subscriber only server would do it for me. Clears up global chat, etc etc.
For a sub game? If a sub game passes the "I am playing this 15$ worth of time a month" test i am happy to pay their fee. even buyig the multimonth if i iknow i will like the game for a long time (eve).
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Currently Playing EVE, ESO
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The point is a smaller and smaller population can be swayed.
Well, there is probably nothing that can sway me to pay a sub for one game. May be i will sub to a gaming channel (like Netflix) that allows me to play many games .. but just one? I don't play just one game.
Hell, it's simple: I'd pay a sub for a game I actually like.
I like Fallen Earth. It's F2P. I'm subbed.