Ignoring the "this class doesnt feel fun, so I dont like it" parameters here is how the tanks stack up in damage taken in 25 man heroic raids currently.
Great thread and great misinformation. Who writes this crap? Don't journalists actually do research anymore (you know if you haven't actually played the game or the class maybe you should try that...). Mainly I just get tired of it so here are actual facts about DK tanks:
Anyway I've played DKs since WotlK beta, up until the end of MoP.
DKs ORIGINALLY were a tri-spec tank class.
DKs could always tank with a SINGLE 2 Hand weapon or Dual Wield (one or the other being more optimal depending on spec and situation, this changed wildly during beta and release). No DKs do not have Titan's Grip (DW 2handers)... For the most part tanking has favored a 'single' (lol ok I jest) 2H weapon due to stats and runeforge choices. There was a period were Frost tanks favored dual wield.
The original 3 specs all had tanking niches and all used FROST PRESENCE for tanking (hence the common conception that all DK tanks were frost tanks for some reason).
Blood spec was mainly a single target tank spec with a lot of additional healing and good cleave attacks (I can't recall if the dps portion of blood spec, it's armor penetration mechanics, played into the tank spec at all. I remember blood dps stacking armor pen). Your sole source of AoE threat was Blood Boil and DnD (and well Heart Strike cleave)
Frost was a ranged AoE spec outright. Always has been. It by far had the easiest time with AoE packs and threat gen i.e. HB spam. It was also widely regarded as having the worst mitigation depending on who you asked. IMO this was the 'noob' spec of the three meant to make up for both gear and skill with easy to use spammable abilities and simple mechanics + great aoe threat. I'm not saying it was a terrible spec at all, just that of all my time tanking on DKs this spec was used the least mainly because I personally didn't need the extra AoE threat and raid tanks generally were unholy or blood.
Yes Unholy, once upon a time, was a tanking spec. It was easily my favorite in beta, and what made it to live was similar but not near as overpowered. The signature spell unholy blight was originally designed as a rolling AoE dot that you could keep up indefinitely although it had a very small area of effect around the DK. This is also where another signature spell came from, bone shield. Unholy DKs excelled at neither threat or AoE, but they had unique tools and superior mitigation which made this the spec of choice for raid tanks through most of beta and early live.
Iirc blood had the best physical mitigation and unholy had some extra magic mitigation, with frost falling somewhere in-between (or below). All three used DnD for AoE threat (with blood relying on it the most for AoE).
In the end we all know how Blizzard's experiment of a tri-spec tanking class ended. Most of the signature tanking abilities from each of the trees were eventually rolled into blood, with frost and unholy becoming dps trees (and blood becoming the tanking presence). Obviously they kept bone shield ;p DKs in MoP also had some interesting choices in talents not really bringing back the tri-spec but giving DKs that had been shoehorned into blood tanking to get some of their frost/unholy abilities back.
Sorry if I posted any misinformation in there, feel free to correct me (I haven't played WoW for like 2 years...).
Ignoring the "this class doesnt feel fun, so I dont like it" parameters here is how the tanks stack up in damage taken in 25 man heroic raids currently.
Ignoring the "this class doesnt feel fun, so I dont like it" parameters here is how the tanks stack up in damage taken in 25 man heroic raids currently.
I'd believe that. Although in my experience, my Pally actually does less damage than my DK. Warr tanks would definitely be at the top of the list, though, for dps. As far as survivability goes, idk.
Originally posted by evilastro Frost was never a tank spec. Unless you were joking about it being overpowered DPS and getting aggro.
You sir... must be new to WoW..... Yes it was... Frost DW Tanking... You know, back when Blizzard still gave classes the freedom to choose your own spec and make bad decisions.
blizzard has allready posted there top tank specs so no ones opinion matters when the best tank has allready been decided by the game owners blood dk is the #1 tank with a 250k+ heal per hit from blood strike and the only class to hit over 1mil hp as a tank blood dk holds the top tank slot then warrior then pally then monk these stats are based on raids blizzard dose not go by anything els to rate tanks unless your good at raiding your no tank your a noob i have 2 tanks 1 dps 561 blood dk 567 prot pally and 570 surv hunter 1 hit from my dk i heal 280k no one has been able to solo pvp me takes 3+ people to kill a good dk only class comes close to soloing a blood dk is frostmage
Originally posted by year3214 blizzard has allready posted there top tank specs so no ones opinion matters when the best tank has allready been decided by the game owners blood dk is the #1 tank with a 250k+ heal per hit from blood strike and the only class to hit over 1mil hp as a tank blood dk holds the top tank slot then warrior then pally then monk these stats are based on raids blizzard dose not go by anything els to rate tanks unless your good at raiding your no tank your a noob i have 2 tanks 1 dps 561 blood dk 567 prot pally and 570 surv hunter 1 hit from my dk i heal 280k no one has been able to solo pvp me takes 3+ people to kill a good dk only class comes close to soloing a blood dk is frostmage
Usually, Blizzard buff classes that are not popular and nerf classes that are too popular.
Therefore, it would be logical to assume that if warriors have the best DPS, they suck in other aspects.
This is the main reason why I stopped playing WoW (classes that were too fun (popular) got the nerf bat, e.g. - fire mage).
Well, I definitely had fun being nr1. on both healing and threat in most LFR groups on my short return to WoW as a blood DK tank. I really enjoyed the way you were actively tanking as well, you weren't only just throwing up more and more barriers between you and the mob but actually constantly looking to regen your health.
I (off)tanked as a pally too in TBC, but I honestly don't remember too much about that other than that it was more viable than going mage DPS for me at the time. Didn't raid much overall in TBC tho.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
what fucking difference does it make? The game is so fucking easy you can SOLO many RAID BOSSES, 5 man and solo content can be tanked by DPS classes in CLOTH ARMOR...
World of Warcraft is a fucking lame joke now. Stop writing articles as if tactics or builds or class diversity matters.
Originally posted by Gestankfaust Why are we still talking about this game?
That's a good question! I think it's because most gamers have 'invested' both time and money into this game already. For example, they have probably already bought an in-game item through the cash shop, so they are going to look to return to WoW before they consider a different game.
Also, most MMORPGs on the market have been designed to emulate WoW's successful methods, so Blizzard doesn't need to attract new players - their goal should be to hang on to old players.
This sounds easy, but Blizzard could well mess it up because as companies grow and become successful, they tend to become less innovative for various reasons. Innovation is everything in terms of wanting to be number 1 - as Apple is learning with Samsung etc.
For raiding my DK was always prefered over the warrior, there are just so many much the other tanking classes offered over the warrior. Not sure how it is now, this was when I last played, when they introduced the Timeless Isle. DK was easy faceroll for tanking though, just put in my rotation in my razer and hold one button while the magic happened, lol. Course a few situations required a few skills not in the rotation, but for the most part, faceroll.
Paladin is my top pick to tank with, mainly cause they are easy to learn at first but hard to master for heroic raiding. I tried to tank with other classes but would stop cause I was ashamed at my skill, really should of leveled tank instead of take it in all at once.
Originally posted by evilastro Frost was never a tank spec. Unless you were joking about it being overpowered DPS and getting aggro.
When DK's were released Frost was their tanking tree.
Guess you just started.
Hmm no, played a DW frost DK in WOTLK. My memory must be hazy, but I thought frost offered defensive stuff (ie: good for PvP and DPS) but not much in the way of threat generation?
I do recall Frost DW being stupidly OP though. Good times.
Lol, could not agree LESS on OP list for fun factor of tanking. :-) My preference is close to above Betaguy's, except I would put Warrior on last place. Not how much is able to tank great, but how less fun is to me to tank. But overall I have not been tanking really a lot always loved to be healer.
evilastro you are not wrong frost tree had ice bound fortitude deep down if i recall among other choices that apealed to my play style ....i would never have described it as the noob spec i remember more blood tanks being more forgiving for pug runs
I was a frost tank in ICC, threat on it was insane ( DC + IT or HB 45k threat), also favored frost over blood on gorehowl, blood always seemed squishy to me, sure it could heal but the damage it took was spikey, frost took more steady damage, my healers also agreed.
UH was my favorite tank spec, until they nerfed it, Frost was fine, once you got past it's clunky feel, when they made blood the only tank spec, I quit the game.
I have all classes max lvl 90 accept Druids. So i can't speak to druid yet. but here is my preference of tanking. Please keep in mind, I am not a hardcore raider, and I have played since early Beta. My opinion is not based on some random web sights (Best in Slot Grids)
I love my paladin for tanking, not great dps as tank, however paladin can be a fantastic hybrid tanking spot healer. When it comes down to a battle gone wrong, the paladin shines in helping keep the healer alive while maintaining full control!
I enjoy the warrior, however I am not a fan of tanking mechanics with the Pandaria changes. I have since switched to a Furry based blender setup, and haven't looked back!
I play monk as Heals, and my druid is currently a Feral DPS build, so i really cannot rank them, However my Wife runs her Monk as a Tank, and she does very well. She prefers her Paladin for tanking in almost all cases over her Warrior, DK and Druid, with her DK being 2nd on her list.
Comments
Ignoring the "this class doesnt feel fun, so I dont like it" parameters here is how the tanks stack up in damage taken in 25 man heroic raids currently.
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/#0000000000000000000000011111000000
But even this doesnt tell the complete story.
Great thread and great misinformation. Who writes this crap? Don't journalists actually do research anymore (you know if you haven't actually played the game or the class maybe you should try that...). Mainly I just get tired of it so here are actual facts about DK tanks:
Anyway I've played DKs since WotlK beta, up until the end of MoP.
DKs ORIGINALLY were a tri-spec tank class.
DKs could always tank with a SINGLE 2 Hand weapon or Dual Wield (one or the other being more optimal depending on spec and situation, this changed wildly during beta and release). No DKs do not have Titan's Grip (DW 2handers)... For the most part tanking has favored a 'single' (lol ok I jest) 2H weapon due to stats and runeforge choices. There was a period were Frost tanks favored dual wield.
The original 3 specs all had tanking niches and all used FROST PRESENCE for tanking (hence the common conception that all DK tanks were frost tanks for some reason).
Blood spec was mainly a single target tank spec with a lot of additional healing and good cleave attacks (I can't recall if the dps portion of blood spec, it's armor penetration mechanics, played into the tank spec at all. I remember blood dps stacking armor pen). Your sole source of AoE threat was Blood Boil and DnD (and well Heart Strike cleave)
Frost was a ranged AoE spec outright. Always has been. It by far had the easiest time with AoE packs and threat gen i.e. HB spam. It was also widely regarded as having the worst mitigation depending on who you asked. IMO this was the 'noob' spec of the three meant to make up for both gear and skill with easy to use spammable abilities and simple mechanics + great aoe threat. I'm not saying it was a terrible spec at all, just that of all my time tanking on DKs this spec was used the least mainly because I personally didn't need the extra AoE threat and raid tanks generally were unholy or blood.
Yes Unholy, once upon a time, was a tanking spec. It was easily my favorite in beta, and what made it to live was similar but not near as overpowered. The signature spell unholy blight was originally designed as a rolling AoE dot that you could keep up indefinitely although it had a very small area of effect around the DK. This is also where another signature spell came from, bone shield. Unholy DKs excelled at neither threat or AoE, but they had unique tools and superior mitigation which made this the spec of choice for raid tanks through most of beta and early live.
Iirc blood had the best physical mitigation and unholy had some extra magic mitigation, with frost falling somewhere in-between (or below). All three used DnD for AoE threat (with blood relying on it the most for AoE).
In the end we all know how Blizzard's experiment of a tri-spec tanking class ended. Most of the signature tanking abilities from each of the trees were eventually rolled into blood, with frost and unholy becoming dps trees (and blood becoming the tanking presence). Obviously they kept bone shield ;p DKs in MoP also had some interesting choices in talents not really bringing back the tri-spec but giving DKs that had been shoehorned into blood tanking to get some of their frost/unholy abilities back.
Sorry if I posted any misinformation in there, feel free to correct me (I haven't played WoW for like 2 years...).
How a class (or a game) 'feels' is absolutely everything.
For example, 95% of players say that combat in TSW "doesn't feel right". This has been responsible for some really poor professional reviews
And for me personally, Blizzard totally ruined Fire Mages when talent trees were removed - now, they just feel like utter crap.
I'd believe that. Although in my experience, my Pally actually does less damage than my DK. Warr tanks would definitely be at the top of the list, though, for dps. As far as survivability goes, idk.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
You sir... must be new to WoW..... Yes it was... Frost DW Tanking... You know, back when Blizzard still gave classes the freedom to choose your own spec and make bad decisions.
Usually, Blizzard buff classes that are not popular and nerf classes that are too popular.
Therefore, it would be logical to assume that if warriors have the best DPS, they suck in other aspects.
This is the main reason why I stopped playing WoW (classes that were too fun (popular) got the nerf bat, e.g. - fire mage).
Well, I definitely had fun being nr1. on both healing and threat in most LFR groups on my short return to WoW as a blood DK tank. I really enjoyed the way you were actively tanking as well, you weren't only just throwing up more and more barriers between you and the mob but actually constantly looking to regen your health.
I (off)tanked as a pally too in TBC, but I honestly don't remember too much about that other than that it was more viable than going mage DPS for me at the time. Didn't raid much overall in TBC tho.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
what fucking difference does it make? The game is so fucking easy you can SOLO many RAID BOSSES, 5 man and solo content can be tanked by DPS classes in CLOTH ARMOR...
World of Warcraft is a fucking lame joke now. Stop writing articles as if tactics or builds or class diversity matters.
you didn't play the early DKs right? Blood was dps and frost was tank.
And you probably missed the AoE tank spec with 2 1h'er when you can do howling blast like 10 times in 10 seconds.
Don't assume it didn't happen just because you didn't try.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
That's a good question! I think it's because most gamers have 'invested' both time and money into this game already. For example, they have probably already bought an in-game item through the cash shop, so they are going to look to return to WoW before they consider a different game.
Also, most MMORPGs on the market have been designed to emulate WoW's successful methods, so Blizzard doesn't need to attract new players - their goal should be to hang on to old players.
This sounds easy, but Blizzard could well mess it up because as companies grow and become successful, they tend to become less innovative for various reasons. Innovation is everything in terms of wanting to be number 1 - as Apple is learning with Samsung etc.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Hmm no, played a DW frost DK in WOTLK. My memory must be hazy, but I thought frost offered defensive stuff (ie: good for PvP and DPS) but not much in the way of threat generation?
I do recall Frost DW being stupidly OP though. Good times.
I have only been a healer in all my gaming life, but, I would like to chime in a point from the healers perspective.
I personally find Death Knights to be the best tanks and the easiest to heal.
I have 8 years experience of healing in this game alone.
#1 - Bear Tank
#2 - Death Knight
#3 - Pally
#4 - Warrior
#5 - Monk
That's my ranking opinion.
I was a frost tank in ICC, threat on it was insane ( DC + IT or HB 45k threat), also favored frost over blood on gorehowl, blood always seemed squishy to me, sure it could heal but the damage it took was spikey, frost took more steady damage, my healers also agreed.
UH was my favorite tank spec, until they nerfed it, Frost was fine, once you got past it's clunky feel, when they made blood the only tank spec, I quit the game.
I have all classes max lvl 90 accept Druids. So i can't speak to druid yet. but here is my preference of tanking. Please keep in mind, I am not a hardcore raider, and I have played since early Beta. My opinion is not based on some random web sights (Best in Slot Grids)
#1 tank - DK
I have found my DK to not only dish out the Damage in large amounts, but also he seems to have the highest sustainability over long winded battles.
#2 tank - Pally
I love my paladin for tanking, not great dps as tank, however paladin can be a fantastic hybrid tanking spot healer. When it comes down to a battle gone wrong, the paladin shines in helping keep the healer alive while maintaining full control!
#3 tank - War
I enjoy the warrior, however I am not a fan of tanking mechanics with the Pandaria changes. I have since switched to a Furry based blender setup, and haven't looked back!
I play monk as Heals, and my druid is currently a Feral DPS build, so i really cannot rank them, However my Wife runs her Monk as a Tank, and she does very well. She prefers her Paladin for tanking in almost all cases over her Warrior, DK and Druid, with her DK being 2nd on her list.
---Retired---
WAR - Lots
Vanguard - Lots
---Live---
WoW - LOTS
EQ - LOTS
I played all those classes.I loved to tank in WoW but the best tanking class ever is Death knight for me ofc