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Will unified gear choice expand your endgame possibilities?
Nacario
Member UncommonPosts: 222
As you might know, there is no set item stat that segregates pvp and and pve gear. There are different opinions on this, but I feel it will make endgame content more accissable to the average player. I as a dedicated pvper usually never touched pve since it already took enough time progressing gearwise. My opinion is that it is further a better choice as it fits the elder scrolls setting, as it isnt just an mmo.
Comments
It kind of kills any option they ever have of adding really difficult large group content to the game. If you give a player a long straight line road (PVP) and a windy road full of pitfalls that takes people working together (raiding) to the same goal should anyone be surprised when most people take the straight path?
I still think we might see some unique powerful enchantments drop in hard group and raid encounters that even if the base stats of the gear are the same there might be other things that drive players to want to do that content.
It only takes one equation to make a good mmo
Crafted Gear > World Drops = Raid Drops=PvP Drops
Until they work out a way to stop a small group ninjaing a keep or keep swapping or .. how about a pile of points/gear for sitting in a zerg .. pve players will deserve the best hear.
And I love pvp.
The only sure way of creating balance is that the best PvE gear is obtained via PvE, while the best PvP gear is obtained by PvP. If you are going to use crafting then the best gear needs to made from materials you get from top level PvE and PvP respectively. If you do not use that system you are creating a stick to beat yourself with.
Now TESO may have found a way to balance the books but they have chosen to do it the hard way. So I doubt it will be an easy ride.
I think having unified gear is a terrible idea and a balancing nightmare that will end up screwing both sets of players.
That being said, I think the "unification" of gear doesn't quite make for "i'll just use the same gear for both" as much as one would think. If other games I've played are an indication, people's loadouts for PvE and PvP tend to be vastly different - especially in a game like this where you'll need to adjust your abilities to the situation. And with abilities changing (Sometimes drastically) between PvE and PvP, i would think that people (or at least the good players) will have separate gear sets.
Sure, you CAN use them for both, but i think there'll be a clear advantage to having a loadout (and gear set to support said loadout) for any given activity.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
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iirc the gear you get in pvp has different stats on it. so depending on your build and what stats you want. you will still need to do pve or craft.
This is truth. DAoC is like this and is widely considered the best "PVP mmo" ever made, and we all used either crafted gear or high end boss mob gear we either bought or went and did PVE for.
It forced PvP players to PvE a minor amount (besides leveling), which wasn't actually all that bad when learning the game and group synergy imo.
For example my Realm Rank 12 Eldritch in DAoC has Sleeves, Gloves and Boots that are Player Crafted, all the rest is high-end PvE loot including jewerly ( I ddnt need to be in some uber pve guild to get this either,, another great concept pre-wow) and in this setup I can compete in High End PvP no problem.
Where it really shines is you can get an entire player crafted suit BEFORE you do any pve just to get your "PVP fix" in while you are waiting to get the other loot you need.
People always talk about how this screws over PvE players and that screws over PvP players. Well, when you have PvP and PvE only gear, the people that get screwed are the people that enjoy both. You've now effectively created two separate games and most working adults like myself barely have time for one. Now, you want us to collect two separate sets of endgame gear? Great, like that is gonna happen on our schedule.
Now, I'm not saying it should be carebear easy to attain. But, this old tired excuse of it being impossible to balance the gear is annoying as hell and a fallacy. As someone else pointed out, DAoC did it. It can and should be done. Make gear hard to attain in PvP, PvE and through Crafting, but make what ever gear you do get viable in all aspects of the game.
It's not a tired excuse it's a fact that putting the same gear in PVP and PVE equals people not doing really hard PVE content (I.E. hardcore raid progression). If you give a person a chose between a long straight line path (PVP) and a windy path that requires other peoples help to get thought (PVE) why would anyone be surprised when most people pick the long straight line?
Now maybe you don't like hardcore raid progression and that's fine if you don't but you can't deny that equal gear kills that activity beyond the most basic of raids. Sure you can still have raid zergs but you can't have meaninful progression as long as you offer a shortcut around the frustrations and teamwork requirement though solo PVP or even solo crafting even if it takes longer to get to.
Now one could argue that nothing that has been said excludes the possibility that while gear will be equal enchantments will not.
That is because "really "hard" pve raid progression" wasn't around before WoW, and I certainly don't speak for everyone, but hell man, MMO's pre-WoW were more FUN imo.
Hardcore PVE is an oxymoron imo, there is no need to separate gear in ESO.
Hardcore PVP, now that is achieved just thru the nature of PvP in a game like DAoC, where you have NO IDEA which enemies are coming over the next hill, whether they are total noobs or the best guild in the game, and that is what made that game so exciting on a nightly basis. No scripted PVE encounter can match that imo, and ESO is taking a page from DAoC when it comes to this style of play.
So to wrap up, Hadcore and PVE really don't go in the same sentence imo and alot of others I know, except if you are on a mega-boss raid and then the enemy realm ports in and its a 3 way battle between NPC and 2 enemy player factions, now thats "hardcore'.
I do both raid PVE and PVP and they are different but I wouldn't go so far as to say one is easier or harder than the other. Raiding requires working together and depending on everyone to do their job a lot more so than PVP does. Teamwork in PVP is important but not near on the same level of coordination as PVE. The problem I have is that PVP activities reward gear regardless of how you play where raiding doesn't. If your raid isn't on the ball no one gets gear that night where everyone gets tokens in PVP win, lose or suck; it just might take longer when you don't preform as well. That's what I mean by PVP being a long straight road where PVE is a windy road requiring other peoples help.
Now I'm not knocking gear being rewarded in PVP only how it being the same gear as what drops in the hardest PVE makes that PVE irrelevant since success is not a requirement to earn PVP gear where it is to earn PVE.
So, no hot dropping PvE fit players because they are cow kills?
Awe, my heart pumps purple piss for you. Hue, hue, hue.
It will make content more accessible, because it's not holding different portions of the game to a different ruleset.
That has always been the problem with more 'traditional' MMOs, which encorperate raid-oriented gear as 'the best', with PvP-stat specific gear for PvPers. This is done for 2 specific reasons.
1) In an attempt to appease non-raiders, and fix balance issues created as a result of gear progression.
2) To give gamers yet another thing to grind for, and thus forcing players to pay more money in subscriptions for playing the game longer.
Neither of which make the game inherently better. Instead, they exploit the player into playing the game more. In a similar way to how Slot Machines do. By having a game less focused around randomized gear (you can craft the gear you want) and passive stat bonus', you can instead have the game focused around a single ruleset (these are how the skills work, they work the same way in both PvE and PvP, customize yourself accordingly), It tends to promote much more interesting gameplay. It requires the devs to implement more interesting challenges, isntead of passive (stat-based) challenges, that are mostly determined by gear.
Furthermore, by having 1 unified ruleset, it doesn't matter what aspect of the game players are enjoying. PvE and PvP players alike will both understand how the game works. You will still have skills that are better suited for one or the other, but you don't have any skills that are 100% useless for either.
There is a reason some games segregate. In a trinity system particularly, players like pure heals or pure tanking suck on the PVP battle field. So in a way separate pvp gear or different rule sets (eg spells that work in pvp not pve ala Rift) make the game more accessible for those players whose classes are built for group pve.
Yes and no.
While I don't endorse it, the general argument was that when the "best" gear was PvE, and in fact the ONLY way to get said gear was to raid, that ultimately forced people who wanted to "peak PvP" to go raid, and do content that they were not interested in. It also let said same PvE players to jump into PvP, and start out with an immediate advantage.
Personally, I always thought the solution would be to give equal gear to PvP as there was to raiding, so there would be multiple paths to the gear level a person really wanted. Add in a crafting assist, and I think you are there. Like you, I've got time limits, so that multiple paths is my preferred way to go.
In PVE you earn gear by beating the boss in non full loot non open world PVP you earn gear by participating. They are completely different reward systems and so should have different sets of gear around them. Unless you can find a way to make both wining based or both participation based but good luck with that while not introducing tons of exploits.
This is good...nothing worse than pve and pvp gear. I'd rather get your gear, fight with it.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
I like both PvP and PvE endgame. The fact is, you can make pieces equally hard to get on both sides. Meaning, if person A spends all his time raiding in PvE, he'll get all his armor pieces in the same amount of time as person B. Who got them all from PvPing. Who gets them in the same amount of time as person C. Who got half his pieces from PvP and the other half from PvE.
Making separate stats for PvP and PvE only caters to specialists. It makes twice the work for people who actually enjoy all aspects of the game, not just one piece of it.
There is less that separates PvP from raiding in this game than your standard "sit in the queue and grind Honor all day".
If they do it right, there is no reason that your gear should not be viable in both PvE and PvP.
I'm a PvPer, for the most part. But I also do PvE content a lot in MMOs. When a game introduces some concept that increases my PvP effectiveness, I will naturally go for it, but when I go do PvE content usually my effectiveness diminishes.
If they allow unified gear choice and u can basically get the best gear through various ways, and it is viable in all PvE and PvP scenarios, it may lead to people who are normally kept out of PvP or PvE scenarios participating more in content they aren't usually able to get into.
Edit: and possibly more crafting.