(Poll) Impact of "Cash Shop" on Decision to Purchase/Play

CazNeerg · March 2014

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the sale of the palomino horse in ESO indicates an intent on the part of ZOS to offer a variety of things traditionally associated with cash shops for direct purchase. Without getting into different kinds of cash shop or whether they are in-game or out of game, how does the mere fact that they are allowing players to directly purchase in-game benefits separate from the cost of the subscription impact your purchasing decision?

arieste · March 2014

I fully expected there to be a cosmetic/convenience item shop even if i hadn't been announced. Has zero impact either on my gameplay or interest in the game.

CazNeerg · March 2014

Originally posted by skillbobaggins
Originally posted by arieste
I fully expected there to be a cosmetic/convenience item shop even if i hadn't been announced. Has zero impact either on my gameplay or interest in the game.

Despite the repeated promises by the dev team that they would never implement a cash shop selling in game items because they were passing on all content to customers via a sub?

So you just assumed they were lying the whole time?

It doesn't require an assumption they were lying. Only an assumption that the people who are *actually* in charge (the money men at Zenimax Media) were capable of looking at data from other games and realizing there was more money to be made from having a cash shop than from not having a cash shop. Do you really think, if Firor was ordered to make these changes by the people holding the purse strings, that the marketing department would let him go out and say "Yeah, I hate cash shops too, but the suits are forcing us to do it." Snowball's chance in hell.

arieste · March 2014

Originally posted by skillbobaggins
Despite the repeated promises by the dev team that they would never implement a cash shop selling in game items because they were passing on all content to customers via a sub?

So you just assumed they were lying the whole time?

i don't remember the exact wording of said promises,but usually they're generic enough such as "there are no plans for", etc.

I've been playing MMOs for 15 years. Pretty much every game with/without sub eventually got a cash shop. It's just the direction that the business is going. Just like most eventually offer some kind of F2P model. So i have enough experience and knowledge abotu the industry to know what to expect.

I have my own standards for what I'll accept as being in a cash shop. A crappier horse than in-game and that is already available for pre-order purchase doesn't matter to me. Neither does an extra mostly cosmetic race. I'm actually kinda happy that the CE is available somehow, if anything from it turns out to have major game-impact, i'll be able to pick it up.

Tbau · March 2014

TESO was on the side for me. Was going to wait 3-4 months after release to get it IF they weren't losing players in mass. Now however I will not. With the racial lock CE edition creating a pay wall and it being in the cash shop and now with a horse as well I have decided not to. The risk is too great of this game being turned into a sub game with a F2P cash shop and I will not give a penny to empower a corporation to destroy the last thing good in this genre.

Subscription based games.

The horse alone being there is meaningless, its the pay wall also being there that pushed me away.

Cliff1963 · March 2014

Played other MMO's with cash shops, had subs with them (SWTOR, Rift), never bought anything from it, and it didn't affect the fun I had playing the game, so I don't care about a cash shop in ESO. I enjoyed the 3 beta's I played with ESO, despite of all the bugs, and imho I think the trolls who wan't to criticise this game are taking the cash shop as a reason to bash the game. I don't think the game deserves the bashing.

Jacxolope · March 2014

I have been torn from the start in all honesty.

ES games have always been some of my favorite games and I have been a huge fan since Daggerfall, still play a heavily modded Morrowind (my favorite game ever) and enjoyed Skyrim quite a bit for what it was.

I had fairly low expectations of ESO but still planned on purchasing and giving it a solid couple months but mainly due to my love of the IP rather than the idea that this will be 'the mmorpg' I have been looking for.

-This move changed my perception totally. Hell, the CE Imperial Edition actually put me 'on the fence' but this pushed me over.

Sadly I think the cash shop will surely grow and grow and that perhaps this was always slated to go 'F2P' and the systems and planning are already in place. I could be wrong but having followed this game I trust nothing they have to say and my perception is what it is.

I really...really...Really was hoping that between this game and Wildstar, we would see the return of sub based games without ca$h $hops. I have watched my favorite genre become watered down and totally ruined over the last few years and sadly, I think there is no changing things.

My hope now is mainly in single player games. Lots of great indies. Strategy games and tabletop games. MMORPGs are a memory pretty much at this point. =(

Calven · March 2014

This is one of thefew reasons why I won't buy this game. I will not support this development that I believe ruins the entertainment value in games. I may be alone on this but I'm the type of gamer who wants to earn access to content by playing the game, not by paying extra for something that makes it easier for me to reach the end game. Selling mounts for real money diminishes the sense of accomplishment that comes with completing a challenge, both for those who buy the mount with real money but certainly also for those who do not. While I do agree that it is entirely optional buying mounts does affect the game. Those who spend time and in-game resources to acquire a mount will be outdone by those who purchased it from the store. In a genre that encourages a high level of competition those who purchases mounts for real money also purchases a signigicant advantage simply by cutting out the time and resources required to buy the mount in-game. But most important of all the sense of accomplishment gained from earning your own mount is significantly diminished by the bloke who rides past you on some exclusive mount. Your efforts and toils, the time spent searching for resources etc., now has a price.. And I find it disheartening that the many hours it took me to obtain enough resources to buy the damn mount is now roughly worth a few bucks.

Kyleran · March 2014

I stopped believing in fairies a long time ago.

No matter what one person said, I do believe MMO Business managers will take whatever action necessary to maximize the ROI on the investment, which pretty much guarantees something will be sold above and beyond the sub free.

My cable TV provider pretty much does the same thing , I'm used to it now.

the420kid · March 2014

Aslong as we are talking about buying things that are in game anyways that arent only available via cash shop then I dont care. If you want to spend 20 bones on a fancy mount by all means long as it doesnt go faster than my mount I plan to buy with hard earned gold then in the end who cares its same as blizz shop buy all the mounts / pets you want but you cant buy gear etc thats all that matters.

Precusor · March 2014

Cosmetic stuff doesn't really bother me.

CazNeerg · March 2014

Originally posted by Calven
This is one of thefew reasons why I won't buy this game. I will not support this development that I believe ruins the entertainment value in games. I may be alone on this but I'm the type of gamer who wants to earn access to content by playing the game, not by paying extra for something that makes it easier for me to reach the end game. Selling mounts for real money diminishes the sense of accomplishment that comes with completing a challenge, both for those who buy the mount with real money but certainly also for those who do not. While I do agree that it is entirely optional buying mounts does affect the game. Those who spend time and in-game resources to acquire a mount will be outdone by those who purchased it from the store. In a genre that encourages a high level of competition those who purchases mounts for real money also purchases a signigicant advantage simply by cutting out the time and resources required to buy the mount in-game. But most important of all the sense of accomplishment gained from earning your own mount is significantly diminished by the bloke who rides past you on some exclusive mount. Your efforts and toils, the time spent searching for resources etc., now has a price.. And I find it disheartening that the many hours it took me to obtain enough resources to buy the damn mount is now roughly worth a few bucks.

It's digressing from the topic, but I have to ask; why should your time investment be considered more valuable than another player's just because it happened in game? Money doesn't materialize out of nowhere, people have to work for it. It's entirely possible (depending on income and the price of the particular item) that someone who purchases something directly in the game actually had to spend *more* time than you did in order to earn it. Not saying that is the case with this horse specifically, as the in-game price is a little ridiculous in the context of how much money you find in the world, just making a more general point.

Tbau · March 2014

Originally posted by CazNeerg
It's digressing from the topic, but I have to ask; why should your time investment be considered more valuable than another player's just because it happened in game? Money doesn't materialize out of nowhere, people have to work for it.

So you are advocating a P2W cash shop in TESO?!?

This is one of the fears people are talking about. With a race being behind a pay wall, the game is open to becoming a full F2P cash shop, something that keeps many people from playing such games. Most advocate a subscription because it gives you the game in its entirety and that is already not the case.

squalleonaha · March 2014

a horse that required you weeks or months to play to get isnt just cosmetic.

and since horse and imperial already given on digital, it'll probly on cash shop.

and i remember there many people in this forum "confirm" that there is no cash shop even though dev team already said cash shop since beginning.

Jacxolope · March 2014

Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Calven
This is one of thefew reasons why I won't buy this game. I will not support this development that I believe ruins the entertainment value in games. I may be alone on this but I'm the type of gamer who wants to earn access to content by playing the game, not by paying extra for something that makes it easier for me to reach the end game. Selling mounts for real money diminishes the sense of accomplishment that comes with completing a challenge, both for those who buy the mount with real money but certainly also for those who do not. While I do agree that it is entirely optional buying mounts does affect the game. Those who spend time and in-game resources to acquire a mount will be outdone by those who purchased it from the store. In a genre that encourages a high level of competition those who purchases mounts for real money also purchases a signigicant advantage simply by cutting out the time and resources required to buy the mount in-game. But most important of all the sense of accomplishment gained from earning your own mount is significantly diminished by the bloke who rides past you on some exclusive mount. Your efforts and toils, the time spent searching for resources etc., now has a price.. And I find it disheartening that the many hours it took me to obtain enough resources to buy the damn mount is now roughly worth a few bucks.

It's digressing from the topic, but I have to ask; why should your time investment be considered more valuable than another player's just because it happened in game? Money doesn't materialize out of nowhere, people have to work for it. It's entirely possible (depending on income and the price of the particular item) that someone who purchases something directly in the game actually had to spend *more* time than you did in order to earn it. Not saying that is the case with this horse specifically, as the in-game price is a little ridiculous in the context of how much money you find in the world, just making a more general point.

-It isnt who you asked but here is my take...

I make decent money... I make enough money to have plenty of disposable income.

Now , say a Horse (or whatever) takes 5 hours game time (playing to earn it) vs $10 real money. This is now equating my time with the $10 price tag. Knowing I make far more than $10/hr- I feel like my 'time' was essentially wasted when I could work for a fraction of an hour to achieve the same result.

When there is price tag placed on something this adds a set value to the time it takes to earn that item. The fun of playing and the 'time' being a part of the game becomes moot if I realize I am 'making' $2.00/hour for 4-5 hours towards something I could have with a half hour of work.

-Thats my take on it- Why play the game when I can work a couple hours overtime and buy everything?

CazNeerg · March 2014

Originally posted by Tbau
So you are advocating a P2W cash shop in TESO?!?

This is one of the fears people are talking about. With a race being behind a pay wall, the game is open to becoming a full F2P cash shop, something that keeps many people from playing such games. Most advocate a subscription because it gives you the game in its entirety and that is already not the case.

I'm actually not advocating anything, just pointing out that every issue has multiple sides. Where one person could see a cash shop as providing an unfair advantage to people with more money, another person could see it as balancing out an unfair advantage people with more time have historically had in MMOs. How is it unfair for someone with more money than time to use the resource they actually have to enjoy the same quality of experience as someone with more time than money?

Originally posted by Jacxolope
-It isnt who you asked but here is my take...

I make decent money... I make enough money to have plenty of disposable income.

Now , say a Horse (or whatever) takes 5 hours game time (playing to earn it) vs $10 real money. This is now equating my time with the $10 price tag. Knowing I make far more than $10/hr- I feel like my 'time' was essentially wasted when I could work for a fraction of an hour to achieve the same result.

When there is price tag placed on something this adds a set value to the time it takes to earn that item. The fun of playing and the 'time' being a part of the game becomes moot if I realize I am 'making' $2.00/hour for 4-5 hours towards something I could have with a half hour of work.

-Thats my take on it- Why play the game when I can work a couple hours overtime and buy everything?

Here's the thing though; your calculations assume that the only value you got out of your five hours was the purchase of the horse. You're ignoring the XP you gained, the achievements you earned, the quests you completed, the resources you gathered for your crafting profession, etc. etc.. All the person who spends the money gets is the horse, which is only a fraction of the value you received by investing time instead of money.

rodingo · March 2014

So far it's looking like they are losing more people than gaining due to the announcement of the cash shop.

Jacxolope · March 2014

Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Tbau
So you are advocating a P2W cash shop in TESO?!?

This is one of the fears people are talking about. With a race being behind a pay wall, the game is open to becoming a full F2P cash shop, something that keeps many people from playing such games. Most advocate a subscription because it gives you the game in its entirety and that is already not the case.

I'm actually not advocating anything, just pointing out that every issue has multiple sides. Where one person could see a cash shop as providing an unfair advantage to people with more money, another person could see it as balancing out an unfair advantage people with more time have historically had in MMOs. How is it unfair for someone with more money than time to use the resource they actually have to enjoy the same quality of experience as someone with more time than money?

I will tell you.

You have to choose the game and genre you want based on the time you have to play.

Thing is, MMORPGs save your progress. So time should never be an issue.If you can only play an hour a day and I can play 5 hours/days we are on equal footing hour per hour. In other words, you will achieve in 5 days what I achieve in 1 day but our time in game is the same.

A cash shop is bringing the real world into the game- It is monotizing time spent and putting a dollar value on activity in game. In a 'F2P' game- This is fine. Ina sub game? No way.

There is no advantage with 'time' because we are equal comparing ourselves hour to hour. There IS an advantage with ca$h $hops since its now about the size of our wallet or what we are willing to be nickle and dimed on- Plus the game will begin to be made around the cash shop as well.

Tbau · March 2014

Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Tbau
So you are advocating a P2W cash shop in TESO?!?

This is one of the fears people are talking about. With a race being behind a pay wall, the game is open to becoming a full F2P cash shop, something that keeps many people from playing such games. Most advocate a subscription because it gives you the game in its entirety and that is already not the case.

I'm actually not advocating anything, just pointing out that every issue has multiple sides. Where one person could see a cash shop as providing an unfair advantage to people with more money, another person could see it as balancing out an unfair advantage people with more time have historically had in MMOs. How is it unfair for someone with more money than time to use the resource they actually have to enjoy the same quality of experience as someone with more time than money?

I agree that there are multiple sides however its a topic that can drive those on one side away from the game as this isn't some small issue.

And that is not something good for the game. If you factor in that this game is, and it is, targeting ES players and that they are already facing a hurdle with a subscription fee that those SRPG players don't pay, to also have a POTENTIAL large cash shop it will only further drive more players away.

This is not in the games best interest at all and it makes no sense to support it. And I will remind you again incase you forget that I am not against the horse itself being there, its the fact that the shop already contains a pay wall with the CE race being in it that points to the cash shop turing into a F2P cash shop.

As for your last question. I play subscription based games for a reason, the fields are level. If I put in 10 hours of play, I get 10 hours of advancement. Same if I place 20 or 80 hours, I get my times worth like everyone else. By having a P2W shop, its the person with the most money that has the upper hand and then forces everyone else to have to pay even more to keep up with them.

CazNeerg · March 2014

Originally posted by Jacxolope
I will tell you.

You have to choose the game and genre you want based on the time you have to play.

Thing is, MMORPGs save your progress. So time should never be an issue.If you can only play an hour a day and I can play 5 hours/days we are on equal footing hour per hour. In other words, you will achieve in 5 days what I achieve in 1 day but our time in game is the same.

A cash shop is bringing the real world into the game- It is monotizing time spent and putting a dollar value on activity in game. In a 'F2P' game- This is fine. Ina sub game? No way.

There is no advantage with 'time' because we are equal comparing ourselves hour to hour. There IS an advantage with ca$h $hops since its now about the size of our wallet or what we are willing to be nickle and dimed on- Plus the game will begin to be made around the cash shop as well.

If we paid for the games by the hour, you would have a point. But we pay by the month. So the relevant question isn't how much value you get per hour you play, it's how much value you get per month you pay for. Historically, subscription only games give more value to the player with more time, vastly more value for many players. Somebody who works 80 hours a week gets much, much less for his money than someone who is unemployed and living in his mom's basement. Are cash shops a perfect way to address that imbalance? Probably not, but they are a way.

I would be perfectly happy with a system that charged people per hour played instead of monthly, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be a very viable model for the businesses.

Unfortunately, the "level playing field" in sub based games is a myth when you consider the context of the monthly fee and differential amounts of play time depending on people's other responsibilities.

Jacxolope · March 2014

Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by Jacxolope
I will tell you.

You have to choose the game and genre you want based on the time you have to play.

Thing is, MMORPGs save your progress. So time should never be an issue.If you can only play an hour a day and I can play 5 hours/days we are on equal footing hour per hour. In other words, you will achieve in 5 days what I achieve in 1 day but our time in game is the same.

A cash shop is bringing the real world into the game- It is monotizing time spent and putting a dollar value on activity in game. In a 'F2P' game- This is fine. Ina sub game? No way.

There is no advantage with 'time' because we are equal comparing ourselves hour to hour. There IS an advantage with ca$h $hops since its now about the size of our wallet or what we are willing to be nickle and dimed on- Plus the game will begin to be made around the cash shop as well.

If we paid for the games by the hour, you would have a point. But we pay by the month. So the relevant question isn't how much value you get per hour you play, it's how much value you get per month you pay for. Historically, subscription only games give more value to the player with more time, vastly more value for many players. Somebody who works 80 hours a week gets much, much less for his money than someone who is unemployed and living in his mom's basement. Are cash shops a perfect way to address that imbalance? Probably not, but they are a way.

I would be perfectly happy with a system that charged people per hour played instead of monthly, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be a very viable model for the businesses.

Unfortunately, the "level playing field" in sub based games is a myth when you consider the context of the monthly fee and differential amounts of play time depending on people's other responsibilities.

$15 month is value even if you are only playing 10 hours.

If you are worried about the sub giving you value when you havve so little time you need to play a F2P game.

In truth the "moms basement" types are the cash shop people. They have no clue of the value of money and will pay hundreds per month.

If you are working 80 hours a week mmorpgs (or even single player games) are not going to be something you will find fun in. I work 40/week and sometimes do not have time to play games.

80 hours a week is 16 hours a day for 5 days- You will be too tired on the weekends to do anything. find a new hobby.

EDIT- And again, the playingfield is level. Each hour played we are the same. Period. If I play 10 hours over 1 month and you play 10 hours over 1 week- we are the same in our progression (outside of skill and such) .

-It also doesnt matter- The F2P cash shop crowd has won. And the genre has been improving ever since =/

Zeblade · March 2014

Never heard about this cash shop "WHERE WAS I?". I can see the game yet can't remember the name. It was pay to play yet you could see as if they were all ready to go F2P. Before launch had a cash shop things like that.

Like someone said..its your money expect something for it. Way to many are so easy to toss away hard earned money and expect nothing for it. This game has what thats new? Yeah nothing. Its what 10..get that TEN years or more later and you still have NPC's that stand there. You still have those spots where you know the wild life will spawn so you can kill it..you know just watch it only moves about 4 feet.

They don't care never have. Its about MONEY. Wildstar is not different yet it is. Just has more going on seems like its alive. Been in that beta awhile just not as much any more hehe yet its fun.. I will buy that one.

Wow has had a cash shop you can buy pets or what A mount or two (in the past). If its that kind of cash shop for ESO then I dont see the problem. Was going to buy it but not any more and NOT because of cash shop. Yet thats allot that are not buying any more.

Dislike is not hate. If you think like that then your the cow.

Avul · March 2014

I don't know what to do. I enjoy the game but I really dislike these decisions from Zenimax. I can't support that.. I hate cash shops. Mhh.. I guess I'll buy some new soccer shoes instead. These greedy developers.. tss.

rguilbert · March 2014

Waited for this game for a long time. Won't be playing now. Leveling a character to play an RVR game that sells items for real money is a waste of time.

Azzras · March 2014

Originally posted by skillbobaggins
Originally posted by arieste
I fully expected there to be a cosmetic/convenience item shop even if i hadn't been announced. Has zero impact either on my gameplay or interest in the game.

Despite the repeated promises by the dev team that they would never implement a cash shop selling in game items because they were passing on all content to customers via a sub?

So you just assumed they were lying the whole time?

/sigh

They NEVER said there wouldn't be a cash shop that had mounts. They said their cash shop wouldn't be p2w.

Reading is hard...

Azzras · March 2014

So I guess the other 15 threads with polls about the cash shop wasn't enough?

Maybe I'll star the next....

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(Poll) Impact of "Cash Shop" on Decision to Purchase/Play

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(Poll) Impact of "Cash Shop" on Decision to Purchase/Play

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV